I hope that the FFRF or a similar organization will contact the committee to let them know in advance that they will sue on behalf the Satanic Temple/Muslims/Jews/Fringe groups if Idaho attempts to block these groups from gaining access to the same funds, since it would (should) be very hard to make such a block stick legally. That would REALLY put a spoke in their wheel.
Edit: And can I add just how disgusting it is that they're balking the second they realize other religions would be benefiting? I mean, one, were they really stupid enough to not predict this in advance, and, two, can you make the Christian bigotry any more obvious than this?
Yeah, it's crazy to think that, since >90% of the applicants for public funding would likely be Christian outfits anyway, what's got them upset enough to derail the legislation must be the thought of Christianity not receiving every literal dollar of public funding.
It's true they might try to spin the story that way. Based on the article I get the impression they didn't foresee it, but maybe I'm wrong and they did. But... "See, we stopped those eeeebil satanists from getting money, but as a result you won't be getting the money we promised you either. Please re-elect me regardless." is not exactly a good look. Granted, they'll probably add something along the lines of "Woe us. The Satanists are trying to steal our money!" to make it more palatable for their crowd.
A lot of legislators foresaw it. Hemant's prior coverage going back months all has at least one of them pointing out "but what if the Satanists...." But, the fundies pushed forward with it nevertheless.
Worth pointing out there may be multiple different fundies in conflict here. It may be moving forward because the ones who want to eliminate Blaine regardless of satanists and heathens had enough power to force these meetings, with the hope that they'll get some of the "it's a bad idea if any nonChristians gets funding" fundies to change their vote to favor elimination.
They live with christians. They go to church with christians. They're surrounded by christians, so that is where their world view comes from. Inside that bubble, "other" religions don't even deserve attention or recognition. They only realize they're not the "there can be only one" religion in their communities. Islam and Buddhists and Hindus, oh, my!
OT: I'm currently sitting in the Iowa Capitol waiting to testify in opposition to a bill being pushed by the Iowa Nazi Party (formerly GOP) that would eliminate gender identity from our Civil Rights statutes.
Thanks for sharing that. I just got home...had to stop at the pub to decompress....very stressful, fighting for Rights.
I was there with one of my besties, a trans woman, and we both were able to share our perspectives.
It's a victory, to be sure, but as one of my Dem legislator buddies reminded me, nothing is safe until sine die. Still, I'll take the W and maintain my kit. 🙂
Edit: The trans woman in the article is Aime, one of my dearest friends. She's on her city council, and currently running for the Iowa legislature. She's good people. If you're so inclined, here's her website and ActBlue:
That was easily the most chilling bill yet. Not hard to see what the next step would've been after declaring trans people mentally ill by legislative fiat... the only reason I can think of would be to then use the power of the state to forcibly institutionalize and detransition people. Nightmare stuff- you all saved lives today.
...and I'm sure DeSeptic took one look at it from whatever Floridian hidey-hole he's nursing his wounded ego in and said "damn, why didn't I think of that?"
The people who continue to try and force religion into the public schools, paid for with everyone's tax dollars, tend not to recognize the rights of any religion but their own. Without intending to they demonstrate why the founders were very wise when the kept religion and government separate.
I've had JWs come to my door several times since we moved here. I'm always polite and cordial, but when it comes to the bible or religion, I pull no punches.
Which is probably why they haven't been back in a while.
Some Australian comedians did it – it's on YouTube – I'll try to find it. They didn't get a great reception. Can't find it on a quick look, come back later maybe.
Still can't find it – but I do remember one old bloke hitting them with his walking stick.
244 years ago, Benjamin Franklin rightly noted that any religion which could not support itself and whose god did not support it so that those religions cried out to the government for money to support it was a bad religion.
And since TST didn't exist at the time, it isn't hard to conceive which religion Franklin was referring to as bad.
What they want is to abandon funding public schools and brainwash the children into MAGA white Evangelicalism, so they can perpetuate their power and their hierarchies forever.
Because they tried to compete in the marketplace of ideas and have failed utterly because their ideas are awful and make people awful.
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, fellas. If you want public funds to support Christian churches, you had better be prepared for similar funds to be permissible for Jewish synagogues, Islamic temples, and , yes, Satanic organizations. Oh, and if you want to omit that last because of some "compelling interest," know that such an assertion will be open to scrutiny.
Also, be aware: you don't get to ban something just because you don't like it.
Talking snakes, turning water into wine, raising the dead (necromancy), and so on. Christianity, and especially the Evangelical and Pentecostal sects, wholeheartedly embrace that the Bible is undisputed fact. At best the Bible is mythological or allegorical.
Noted author Joyce Carol Oates, who graduated valedictorian, was lambasted by xtians for saying "The bible, as you call it, is a work of fiction; or rather, an anthology of fictions."
You know how the gullible get when you try to take their fantasies away.
Does this surprise anyone coming from a state where it is legal for parents to kill their kids, as long as, it is by denying them actual medical care and just hoping really hard that the illness will go away on its own?
I can’t believe those legislators did not see the potential blowback for this, be it TST, FFRF or any other person or organization. I guess they were counting on god to foil the attempt. Maybe he’s too busy laughing. I know I am.
I think some of them just forget that people other than Christians exist in their communities. They don't see them or interact with them and thus non-Christians aren't there in their minds.
I suffered from that in my youth. I was raised Catholic in New York. I thought most people were either Catholic or Jewish because that was who I interacted with. Then somewhere around turning 12 I found out that both groups are minorities in the USA. Imagine my surprise.
We could very easily ignore the existence of religionistas if they'd stop trying to push their beliefs on unbelievers or encode their beliefs into law.
It's simply the way the system works - novices are in charge for a lot of the time. That or the writers are monumentally in the bag for God. Either way Not. Fit. For. Office.
[squeals of joy] It's one of my [squeeee] favorite feelings to experience [squeee squeee]! The utter [sque] joy [sque] of [sque] watching a grown man drown in his own hubris! [SQUEEEEEEEE]
Seriously, the problem with any partisan movement or ideal is its blindspots. Especially in this nation. Our blindspots have, still do, and will continue to relegate minorities to disadvantageous positions and see them as second class citizens for the foreseeable future even while touting the nation's supposed enlightenment. Now don't get me wrong, America is a great nation in many ways, in fact the border "crisis" is a great illustrator - lots and lots of people see this country as a haven, an opportunity, and a place to improve their own lives where they are willing to risk DEATH to be here. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm taking about getting more [squuuuuueeeeeees] So keep it up supposedly serious people of God, you are hilarious.
The “strict scrutiny” rule? Good luck Idaho. If schools can’t keep a TST ASSC out without a new SCOTUS ruling, I have a hard time believing you are going to cut off funds to the TST for a school without a trip to SCOTUS.
Tax-payer money should not go to support any religious school or church. Yet, if it changes then all religions/spiritual organizations must receive the same support.
I agree. In Norway we treat all religious community with money. The reason given back then, was that then the government could make the rules. It is not, for reasons that need a separate post, sustainable in the long run though. The JV doesn't get anything because they refuse members to have contact with relatives that have left the tyrannical organisation.
Oh no, state rule-making for private schools is right out. What the US fundies are demanding is state tax funding for their schools combined with zero responsibility to meet state educational standards or requirements.
Another rough but sadly necessary lesson in empathy. GOP/right-wing Christians (The slash is because those two categories are now fully blended) are notorious for being sorely deficient in empathy, so sometimes proposing a hypothetical such as "How would you feel if you were forced to pay taxes to support a religion that you don't agree with?" still doesn't stimulate the meager vestiges of their empathic response. No, sometimes they have to be grabbed by the back of the neck and have their faces shoved into it: "This selfish, self-centered, self-serving Christo-chauvinist bill will let SATANISTS (gasps of horror from the audience) start a Satanic school to teach our children evil lib-ral values!"
Ten to one they sit on this and then try to sneak it through with a few changes at the last legislative moment. I do love how the Satanic community has big plans to use the money. Stay on top of this story please.
"Either that’s brilliant trolling or an incredible plan for the future."
Both. It can be both.
French lesson du jour "Les deux mon n'veu".
I hope that the FFRF or a similar organization will contact the committee to let them know in advance that they will sue on behalf the Satanic Temple/Muslims/Jews/Fringe groups if Idaho attempts to block these groups from gaining access to the same funds, since it would (should) be very hard to make such a block stick legally. That would REALLY put a spoke in their wheel.
Edit: And can I add just how disgusting it is that they're balking the second they realize other religions would be benefiting? I mean, one, were they really stupid enough to not predict this in advance, and, two, can you make the Christian bigotry any more obvious than this?
Yeah, it's crazy to think that, since >90% of the applicants for public funding would likely be Christian outfits anyway, what's got them upset enough to derail the legislation must be the thought of Christianity not receiving every literal dollar of public funding.
The WHOLE POINT was to show off the xtian bigotry to make the bible humpers feel special. "see, we stopped those eeeebil satins from getting money!"
It's true they might try to spin the story that way. Based on the article I get the impression they didn't foresee it, but maybe I'm wrong and they did. But... "See, we stopped those eeeebil satanists from getting money, but as a result you won't be getting the money we promised you either. Please re-elect me regardless." is not exactly a good look. Granted, they'll probably add something along the lines of "Woe us. The Satanists are trying to steal our money!" to make it more palatable for their crowd.
Not their crowd, their (non sacred) cash cows.
A lot of legislators foresaw it. Hemant's prior coverage going back months all has at least one of them pointing out "but what if the Satanists...." But, the fundies pushed forward with it nevertheless.
Worth pointing out there may be multiple different fundies in conflict here. It may be moving forward because the ones who want to eliminate Blaine regardless of satanists and heathens had enough power to force these meetings, with the hope that they'll get some of the "it's a bad idea if any nonChristians gets funding" fundies to change their vote to favor elimination.
Your last two words describe religion in general IMO. Umm i think you edited your response... so i editing mine.. nvm..
They live with christians. They go to church with christians. They're surrounded by christians, so that is where their world view comes from. Inside that bubble, "other" religions don't even deserve attention or recognition. They only realize they're not the "there can be only one" religion in their communities. Islam and Buddhists and Hindus, oh, my!
The short answer is no. The long answer is also no.
TST usually works with ACLU.
OT: I'm currently sitting in the Iowa Capitol waiting to testify in opposition to a bill being pushed by the Iowa Nazi Party (formerly GOP) that would eliminate gender identity from our Civil Rights statutes.
I'd rather be cooking, but I'm required here.
I hate Iowa Nazis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTT1qUswYL0
Obligatory.
Yep. 😁
Good job!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/iowans-erupt-in-cheers-as-lawmakers-protect-gender-identity-as-a-civil-right/ar-BB1hzsBS?
Thanks for sharing that. I just got home...had to stop at the pub to decompress....very stressful, fighting for Rights.
I was there with one of my besties, a trans woman, and we both were able to share our perspectives.
It's a victory, to be sure, but as one of my Dem legislator buddies reminded me, nothing is safe until sine die. Still, I'll take the W and maintain my kit. 🙂
Edit: The trans woman in the article is Aime, one of my dearest friends. She's on her city council, and currently running for the Iowa legislature. She's good people. If you're so inclined, here's her website and ActBlue:
https://aimeforiowa.org/
https://secure.actblue.com/donate/electaime2024
That was easily the most chilling bill yet. Not hard to see what the next step would've been after declaring trans people mentally ill by legislative fiat... the only reason I can think of would be to then use the power of the state to forcibly institutionalize and detransition people. Nightmare stuff- you all saved lives today.
...and I'm sure DeSeptic took one look at it from whatever Floridian hidey-hole he's nursing his wounded ego in and said "damn, why didn't I think of that?"
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0e2fe69ceab0ad4ab43758dbb40b2e67b7dab1adf4f7eaa6c1ab5d083ae6d67b.jpg
The TERF Nazi who testified¹ yesterday has a substack.
https://cynthiayockey.substack.com/p/the-darkest-secrets-of-the-transgender
(¹ Lied.)
I had a lovely conversation with the Nazi who proposed the bill after his trouncing:
https://youtu.be/cTxXFn8disM?si=gOVjeLa_-fHw06Sv
The people who continue to try and force religion into the public schools, paid for with everyone's tax dollars, tend not to recognize the rights of any religion but their own. Without intending to they demonstrate why the founders were very wise when the kept religion and government separate.
Can we try this?
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/424768176_10232784404302513_6554039153581790024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=c42490&_nc_ohc=r_Sg0cN82voAX-ibVMA&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AfAf9-lxgu4mHj3cmchDlGV8Si_bXdVqo99kgYx0AsBC5w&oe=65C04BFD
I've had JWs come to my door several times since we moved here. I'm always polite and cordial, but when it comes to the bible or religion, I pull no punches.
Which is probably why they haven't been back in a while.
I will leave that to others. lol
Some Australian comedians did it – it's on YouTube – I'll try to find it. They didn't get a great reception. Can't find it on a quick look, come back later maybe.
Still can't find it – but I do remember one old bloke hitting them with his walking stick.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2b814be084f758a2f0974d6d2d67ab6cc0d5bf6098ccd9a23446829ff9d891a2.jpg
Whovism is certainly more moral than fundamental Christianity.
That's discrimination against theocracies !
Not seeing a downside to it. ;)
244 years ago, Benjamin Franklin rightly noted that any religion which could not support itself and whose god did not support it so that those religions cried out to the government for money to support it was a bad religion.
And since TST didn't exist at the time, it isn't hard to conceive which religion Franklin was referring to as bad.
But, butt, but it's about grifters, not a traditional religion who relied on taxpayers money* for most of it's history.
* Money in a very broad sense like when catholic churches could claim 10% of crops.
What they want is to abandon funding public schools and brainwash the children into MAGA white Evangelicalism, so they can perpetuate their power and their hierarchies forever.
Because they tried to compete in the marketplace of ideas and have failed utterly because their ideas are awful and make people awful.
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, fellas. If you want public funds to support Christian churches, you had better be prepared for similar funds to be permissible for Jewish synagogues, Islamic temples, and , yes, Satanic organizations. Oh, and if you want to omit that last because of some "compelling interest," know that such an assertion will be open to scrutiny.
Also, be aware: you don't get to ban something just because you don't like it.
They really made it obvious that they intended this to solely benefit Christian schools.
Fringe religious beliefs; like unborn children and virgin mothers?
Talking snakes, turning water into wine, raising the dead (necromancy), and so on. Christianity, and especially the Evangelical and Pentecostal sects, wholeheartedly embrace that the Bible is undisputed fact. At best the Bible is mythological or allegorical.
Noted author Joyce Carol Oates, who graduated valedictorian, was lambasted by xtians for saying "The bible, as you call it, is a work of fiction; or rather, an anthology of fictions."
You know how the gullible get when you try to take their fantasies away.
Is that recent? I saw a click-bait slide-show headline on that this morning but didn't click through to find out who the author was.
Just seeing this. What Straw said.
Earlier this month.
Does this surprise anyone coming from a state where it is legal for parents to kill their kids, as long as, it is by denying them actual medical care and just hoping really hard that the illness will go away on its own?
The very Idaho that bans abortions, even in medical emergencies.
This is the state that gave birth to Aryan Nations.
The thing that angers me is the Idaho legislature has been asked to repeal that horrendous, inhumane law and went "Nah, we like it."
But, but .... potatoes!
Always need salt.
Pepper.
Except, not on fries.
You don't like pepper on fries?
Next you'll tell me you don't like anchovies on pizza.
I don't mind anchovies, but I wouldn't order them.
Solid salt?
There is no excuse ever to put anchovies on anything at all if you try to make innocent people eat it. N E V E R.
Mikey agrees...
https://youtu.be/5K87olNFyIA
Do you know any innocent people?
Po-TAH-toes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihMMw0rnKz4
To MAH toes cure Salmonelloa and other pathogens. See my earlier post.
"But, but...potatoes!"
Now I gotta post this...
https://youtu.be/ad0w59lBfXU
Idaho? Feh! We here in Washington are the 2nd-largest producers of potatoes in the country,
Useless info of the day. The best potatoes I ever eat were produced locally in Cyprus.
I grow some of my own. I was going to say I grow my own but I just don't have the room to keep myself supplied all year round.
There's a Cyprus in France? I learn something new every day.
Why not ? You can go to Paris without passport.
I've been to France (and Italy, and Spain) without a passport.
I can’t believe those legislators did not see the potential blowback for this, be it TST, FFRF or any other person or organization. I guess they were counting on god to foil the attempt. Maybe he’s too busy laughing. I know I am.
I think some of them just forget that people other than Christians exist in their communities. They don't see them or interact with them and thus non-Christians aren't there in their minds.
I suffered from that in my youth. I was raised Catholic in New York. I thought most people were either Catholic or Jewish because that was who I interacted with. Then somewhere around turning 12 I found out that both groups are minorities in the USA. Imagine my surprise.
We could very easily ignore the existence of religionistas if they'd stop trying to push their beliefs on unbelievers or encode their beliefs into law.
That's probably why anybody who has interacted with the UU likes them.
It's simply the way the system works - novices are in charge for a lot of the time. That or the writers are monumentally in the bag for God. Either way Not. Fit. For. Office.
[squeals of joy] It's one of my [squeeee] favorite feelings to experience [squeee squeee]! The utter [sque] joy [sque] of [sque] watching a grown man drown in his own hubris! [SQUEEEEEEEE]
Seriously, the problem with any partisan movement or ideal is its blindspots. Especially in this nation. Our blindspots have, still do, and will continue to relegate minorities to disadvantageous positions and see them as second class citizens for the foreseeable future even while touting the nation's supposed enlightenment. Now don't get me wrong, America is a great nation in many ways, in fact the border "crisis" is a great illustrator - lots and lots of people see this country as a haven, an opportunity, and a place to improve their own lives where they are willing to risk DEATH to be here. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm taking about getting more [squuuuuueeeeeees] So keep it up supposedly serious people of God, you are hilarious.
Baisse d'un ton chéri, tu m'endolores les portugaises.
The “strict scrutiny” rule? Good luck Idaho. If schools can’t keep a TST ASSC out without a new SCOTUS ruling, I have a hard time believing you are going to cut off funds to the TST for a school without a trip to SCOTUS.
Tax-payer money should not go to support any religious school or church. Yet, if it changes then all religions/spiritual organizations must receive the same support.
I agree. In Norway we treat all religious community with money. The reason given back then, was that then the government could make the rules. It is not, for reasons that need a separate post, sustainable in the long run though. The JV doesn't get anything because they refuse members to have contact with relatives that have left the tyrannical organisation.
Oh no, state rule-making for private schools is right out. What the US fundies are demanding is state tax funding for their schools combined with zero responsibility to meet state educational standards or requirements.
Another rough but sadly necessary lesson in empathy. GOP/right-wing Christians (The slash is because those two categories are now fully blended) are notorious for being sorely deficient in empathy, so sometimes proposing a hypothetical such as "How would you feel if you were forced to pay taxes to support a religion that you don't agree with?" still doesn't stimulate the meager vestiges of their empathic response. No, sometimes they have to be grabbed by the back of the neck and have their faces shoved into it: "This selfish, self-centered, self-serving Christo-chauvinist bill will let SATANISTS (gasps of horror from the audience) start a Satanic school to teach our children evil lib-ral values!"
Ten to one they sit on this and then try to sneak it through with a few changes at the last legislative moment. I do love how the Satanic community has big plans to use the money. Stay on top of this story please.