The Catholic Church has systematically abused children for centuries, and until recently they protected the abusers and blamed their victims. This edict comes as no surprise because the Church always goes with an authoritarian top-down approach to every issue. As bad as this is, it's probably going to speed up the stampede of people leaving the church. I left over half a century ago, and never missed it one damned bit.
Unfortunately it's too rich and influential to just go away with it's congregants gone. It might get closer to the edge, but it's going to need a push.
Nah, I wouldn't want to pollute the area with radioactive fallout. I'd settle for driving a stake through its heart, decapitating it, severing it's limbs, burning it all, and scattering the ashes at a crossroads.
“gender ideology… one of the most dangerous ideological colonizations.”
Well, he’s not wrong, the gender ideology that we’ve lived with for centuries has caused a great deal of harm to women and LGBT people throughout history. Women are not less intelligent or capable than men. Being LGBT is not shameful or wrong. The thinking about women as property and LGBT people as disordered has spilled enough blood to sail a navy.
On top of that, if society does break free from the church’s stance on gender, as we’ve been working on for a few generations, then the hold on society the RCC (and therefore his power) in other aspects of life will be broken too. So, the acceptance of LGBT people and even feminism is very dangerous to him personally and the church in general. What it isn’t is dangerous to actual people and society.
I wish much luck and success to Kenworthy; not so much for the church. I thought Pope Francis was a reformer, but let’s not forget, the Catholic Church is an institution; popes come and go, as do presidents.
That said, it’s not surprising that the same church who brought us the Crusades, the inquisition, pro-Hitler propaganda and anti-semitism for centuries, continues to pick on the low hanging fruit and distribute anti-LGBTQ propaganda. Not to mention, operating the world’s largest pedophile ring for centuries.
What should really disturb us is the fact that the Catholic Church operates the largest, non-profit hospital system in the US; catering to over 40% of the US population. They don’t allow abortions or offer admitting privileges to doctors who do; regardless if the procedures are performed in the doctors own offices.
They singlehandedly, could end abortion in this country even in blue states where it is legal. It’s time to take away their tax exempt status and make them operate like most hospital systems; for profit and paying taxes.
Thankfully, the Catholic Church, while being a local religious asshole, has little grasp on medicine in Northeast Ohio. Considering we have the Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals, and the MetroHealth system, all secular and the first two spreading well outside of Cuyahoga County (Cleveland), one can be assured that there will be NO restrictions on care choices in those facilities.
Very worthy topic for Hemant to cover. This is where the Catholic church really makes alot of money and wields power over the general population. The entire notion of a Jesus-based medical institution in 2023 America is revolting!
I've mentioned several times now I'd like to see the church booted out of medicine entirely, and the same can be said for education as well. They get to steal taxpayer dollars for religious ideology when they run educational or medical facilities on top of pushing policies directly harmful to the public.
Greedy piggies at the trough demanding more handouts they don't deserve as rewards for services they didn't provide. They can very well fend for themselves, and if donor dollars aren't enough, tough noogies.
The moment Francis says something reasonable re LGBTQ+, atheists, etc., the Curia immediately release something saying, "That's not what he meant." Same old, same old.
Cleveland is my home, and I've been watching this whole magilla with the Cleveland diocese unfold in the Cleveland Plain Dealer (our local newspaper) and elsewhere, practically from the get-go. I hadn't heard about Daniel Kenworthy or Quire Cleveland until Hemant's article here, but I can't say I'm surprised. The Catholic Church here on the North Coast is about as orthodox as you can get, so their acting to get Kenworthy fired is no shocker at all. While I haven't been aware of Quire Cleveland before now, I'm more than a little disappointed that they let themselves be strong-armed into showing Daniel the door, their close relationship with the diocese notwithstanding.
Tell you what, though: if he isn't already a member, I'm sure Daniel would be more than welcome in the Cleveland Orchestra Chorus. A class performer in a world-class organization? Yeah, that works!
Just another data point pointing towards never getting involved with the RCC, even peripherally. Heh, I want to start up a LGBTQ ally group or something and call it Noah. Have the symbol be a rainbow and a dove, see how many religiots heads explode trying to figure out if it's pro-gay or pro-old testament.
"Why has this venerable institution, [the RCC] in defiance of a majority of its congregation..."
The RCC is not a democracy. It's a dictatorship. Dictatorships don't argue with their critics, they CRUSH their critics. Dictatorships don't give a damn about the opinions of their populace other than to first ignore and then crush dissent. Talk about "cancel culture." Here they're actually canceling culture, canceling performing beautiful music.
The CULTURE OF COWARDICE is as contagious as a coronavirus. The RCC is as cowardly as it is selfish, backward, cruel and despotic, and secular organizations sag under its pressure and even cave in to its pressure by first tolerating the cowardice and then by adopting it.
I admire and applaud Mr. Kenworthy's courage and his trenchant telling of the truth. BRAVO!
Of the 2 great evil, corrupt, greedy, misogynistic, authoritarian, dehumanizing organizations that have spread their tentacles from Italy over the rest of civilization, why does only the LESS pernicious one, the Mafia, have the bad reputation?
I'm going to go with the Mafia is more honest about what they do and how they do it, though I suppose it's possible it's also because the Mafia does the RCC's dirty work at times.
“Ban trans girls from participating in sports (though that rule doesn’t apply to trans boys).“
So, what does this really mean?
None of these rules are about pleasing god, this one especially tells us so. I’m so tired of saying that the rules they make up are about controlling the masses, but it’s the truth. And if society does ever fully accept LGBT folks, the power the church has will die. Anyway…
It's always been about temporal power. When they opted for "give to the church" instead of "sell all your stuff, forsake your families, and follow me." When they opted for "be fruitful and multiply" instead of "don't have sex (but if you must, get married)." When they opted for just war theory over turn the other cheek.
Pretty much every test the RCC faced where the choice was between more temporal power or following their own 'red letter' text, they opted for more temporal power.
Venerable implies heroic, especially related to the Catholic Church, but I’m fucked if I can truly find a heroic example of the RCC. I mean there are folks who have been heroes for the church, but then they’re supporting the church and history has shown what a truly cruel organization it is. Venerable is like Elon Musk telling everyone that he’s a genius, it’s a completely unsupported delusion of grandeur.
The RCC has been on the wrong side of history throughout its entire existence. I wish folks would see that. But since they’re convinced that their entire eternal life is dependent on being in the good graces of this church (or any church for that matter, the RCC isn’t unique in its hold on people or it’s despicable behavior) they think they have to excuse and ignore reality when it comes to the church. One day, maybe.
I hope and expect that a generation from now (maybe two), folks are going to look back at these ridiculous histrionics and wonder what their grandparents were smoking. Seriously, I can get not *understanding* trans folk. Maybe even feeling a bit weirded out. But to go from that to "most dangerous"? Baffling. Guns are most dangerous. Julie having a penis under her dress is not even least dangerous.
There are documented accounts of Catholic missionaries having Central American natives torn apart by dogs for refusing to convert. But hey, treating trans kids decently is far worse than that.
Speaking as an intrinsically disordered annihilator of the concept of nature, my bowel movements have a greater claim on moral authority than Pope Fluffy or his Church- and they smell better, too.
Also, "Intrinsically Disordered Annihilators" would be an awesome band name, if I could carry a tune. Or play any instrument more complicated than a kazoo.
Out trans students to their parents. If that might lead to “physical abuse” at home, staffers must get in touch with the “Diocese Legal Office and the Bishop’s designated moral theologian” to determine next steps.
Legal Office. Protect the church.
Moral theologian. We'll take the parents' confession, but we won't report them to police.
And notice it specifies only physical abuse, because psychological abuse doesn't exist in this country. From a church whose entire existence is based on psychological abuse.
A quire is four pieces of paper folded over to make a manuscript. The group has four singers (I looked on their website and they showed four men being directed by another). Because I was curious as to why they used a qu rather than ch for their name. I was also interested in their mission statement and if the q might be supportive of the queer community, but there’s nothing on their website to support that hypothesis. I also thought the q might be something to do with the right wing conspiracy theorists, as that letter has some serious connotations nowadays, but there’s nothing on the website to suggest that either, not that I really expected it. So it is about the four pages/four singers.
Something to note though, one of the board members is a priest for the diocese, which might explain a lot.
I noticed that the Diocese requires you to talk to Legal if outing a kid might expose them to abuse. OF COURSE it’s about the Diocese’s legal liability, and NOT the safety of the kid.
"...homosexual acts are 'intrinsically disordered.' " This from a religion full to overflowing with child molesters.
Minor detail. Don't let it ruin the narrative.
The Catholic Church has systematically abused children for centuries, and until recently they protected the abusers and blamed their victims. This edict comes as no surprise because the Church always goes with an authoritarian top-down approach to every issue. As bad as this is, it's probably going to speed up the stampede of people leaving the church. I left over half a century ago, and never missed it one damned bit.
Unfortunately it's too rich and influential to just go away with it's congregants gone. It might get closer to the edge, but it's going to need a push.
Take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Nah, I wouldn't want to pollute the area with radioactive fallout. I'd settle for driving a stake through its heart, decapitating it, severing it's limbs, burning it all, and scattering the ashes at a crossroads.
You know, the Full Medieval.
Here's what Jesus had to say about homosexuals and trans people:
MATTHEW:___________________________________________________________
MARK:________________________________________________________________
LUKE:_________________________________________________________________
JOHN:________________________________________________________________
Yet the RCC considers itself Christian?
...but what about the Book of Duck?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ct6lvoJh6Lw
But they claim the church's fancied authority takes precedence over everything else, the word of God included.
“gender ideology… one of the most dangerous ideological colonizations.”
Well, he’s not wrong, the gender ideology that we’ve lived with for centuries has caused a great deal of harm to women and LGBT people throughout history. Women are not less intelligent or capable than men. Being LGBT is not shameful or wrong. The thinking about women as property and LGBT people as disordered has spilled enough blood to sail a navy.
On top of that, if society does break free from the church’s stance on gender, as we’ve been working on for a few generations, then the hold on society the RCC (and therefore his power) in other aspects of life will be broken too. So, the acceptance of LGBT people and even feminism is very dangerous to him personally and the church in general. What it isn’t is dangerous to actual people and society.
I wish much luck and success to Kenworthy; not so much for the church. I thought Pope Francis was a reformer, but let’s not forget, the Catholic Church is an institution; popes come and go, as do presidents.
That said, it’s not surprising that the same church who brought us the Crusades, the inquisition, pro-Hitler propaganda and anti-semitism for centuries, continues to pick on the low hanging fruit and distribute anti-LGBTQ propaganda. Not to mention, operating the world’s largest pedophile ring for centuries.
What should really disturb us is the fact that the Catholic Church operates the largest, non-profit hospital system in the US; catering to over 40% of the US population. They don’t allow abortions or offer admitting privileges to doctors who do; regardless if the procedures are performed in the doctors own offices.
They singlehandedly, could end abortion in this country even in blue states where it is legal. It’s time to take away their tax exempt status and make them operate like most hospital systems; for profit and paying taxes.
How pathetic!
Thankfully, the Catholic Church, while being a local religious asshole, has little grasp on medicine in Northeast Ohio. Considering we have the Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals, and the MetroHealth system, all secular and the first two spreading well outside of Cuyahoga County (Cleveland), one can be assured that there will be NO restrictions on care choices in those facilities.
Very worthy topic for Hemant to cover. This is where the Catholic church really makes alot of money and wields power over the general population. The entire notion of a Jesus-based medical institution in 2023 America is revolting!
Agreed...:)
I've mentioned several times now I'd like to see the church booted out of medicine entirely, and the same can be said for education as well. They get to steal taxpayer dollars for religious ideology when they run educational or medical facilities on top of pushing policies directly harmful to the public.
Greedy piggies at the trough demanding more handouts they don't deserve as rewards for services they didn't provide. They can very well fend for themselves, and if donor dollars aren't enough, tough noogies.
The moment Francis says something reasonable re LGBTQ+, atheists, etc., the Curia immediately release something saying, "That's not what he meant." Same old, same old.
Cleveland is my home, and I've been watching this whole magilla with the Cleveland diocese unfold in the Cleveland Plain Dealer (our local newspaper) and elsewhere, practically from the get-go. I hadn't heard about Daniel Kenworthy or Quire Cleveland until Hemant's article here, but I can't say I'm surprised. The Catholic Church here on the North Coast is about as orthodox as you can get, so their acting to get Kenworthy fired is no shocker at all. While I haven't been aware of Quire Cleveland before now, I'm more than a little disappointed that they let themselves be strong-armed into showing Daniel the door, their close relationship with the diocese notwithstanding.
Tell you what, though: if he isn't already a member, I'm sure Daniel would be more than welcome in the Cleveland Orchestra Chorus. A class performer in a world-class organization? Yeah, that works!
I had a friend in the Cincinnati Men’s Choir, which had a great many LGBT people on it. They attended his funeral.
My friend was most talented in the Operatic style of singing as well, so he would fit right in with them. But he would have to travel for it.
Condolences.
The worst part was that he died from esophageal cancer. He loved singing so much and his throat killed him. He had a lovely voice.
Just another data point pointing towards never getting involved with the RCC, even peripherally. Heh, I want to start up a LGBTQ ally group or something and call it Noah. Have the symbol be a rainbow and a dove, see how many religiots heads explode trying to figure out if it's pro-gay or pro-old testament.
"Why has this venerable institution, [the RCC] in defiance of a majority of its congregation..."
The RCC is not a democracy. It's a dictatorship. Dictatorships don't argue with their critics, they CRUSH their critics. Dictatorships don't give a damn about the opinions of their populace other than to first ignore and then crush dissent. Talk about "cancel culture." Here they're actually canceling culture, canceling performing beautiful music.
The CULTURE OF COWARDICE is as contagious as a coronavirus. The RCC is as cowardly as it is selfish, backward, cruel and despotic, and secular organizations sag under its pressure and even cave in to its pressure by first tolerating the cowardice and then by adopting it.
I admire and applaud Mr. Kenworthy's courage and his trenchant telling of the truth. BRAVO!
Of the 2 great evil, corrupt, greedy, misogynistic, authoritarian, dehumanizing organizations that have spread their tentacles from Italy over the rest of civilization, why does only the LESS pernicious one, the Mafia, have the bad reputation?
I'm going to go with the Mafia is more honest about what they do and how they do it, though I suppose it's possible it's also because the Mafia does the RCC's dirty work at times.
“Ban trans girls from participating in sports (though that rule doesn’t apply to trans boys).“
So, what does this really mean?
None of these rules are about pleasing god, this one especially tells us so. I’m so tired of saying that the rules they make up are about controlling the masses, but it’s the truth. And if society does ever fully accept LGBT folks, the power the church has will die. Anyway…
It's always been about temporal power. When they opted for "give to the church" instead of "sell all your stuff, forsake your families, and follow me." When they opted for "be fruitful and multiply" instead of "don't have sex (but if you must, get married)." When they opted for just war theory over turn the other cheek.
Pretty much every test the RCC faced where the choice was between more temporal power or following their own 'red letter' text, they opted for more temporal power.
Even bigotry has its hierarchy. And women, needless to say, belong at the bottom. With trans girls and women even farther underfoot, if possible.
“Why has this venerable institution,…”
Venerable implies heroic, especially related to the Catholic Church, but I’m fucked if I can truly find a heroic example of the RCC. I mean there are folks who have been heroes for the church, but then they’re supporting the church and history has shown what a truly cruel organization it is. Venerable is like Elon Musk telling everyone that he’s a genius, it’s a completely unsupported delusion of grandeur.
The RCC has been on the wrong side of history throughout its entire existence. I wish folks would see that. But since they’re convinced that their entire eternal life is dependent on being in the good graces of this church (or any church for that matter, the RCC isn’t unique in its hold on people or it’s despicable behavior) they think they have to excuse and ignore reality when it comes to the church. One day, maybe.
These are the folks who fail to realize that eternal life is curse.
More like "this 𝘦𝘹𝘦𝘤𝘳𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦 institution."
Papa Jorge calls gender ideology "one of the most dangerous ideological colonizations."
I can think of colonizations that were truly dangerous: the Catholic Conquistadores and its convert-or-die missionaries in the "New World."
I hope and expect that a generation from now (maybe two), folks are going to look back at these ridiculous histrionics and wonder what their grandparents were smoking. Seriously, I can get not *understanding* trans folk. Maybe even feeling a bit weirded out. But to go from that to "most dangerous"? Baffling. Guns are most dangerous. Julie having a penis under her dress is not even least dangerous.
Honestly, why should you care that Julie has a penis under her dress unless you're trying to have sex with her?
Because Julie might be more "fortunate." 😲
Again, why should you care unless you're trying to have sex with her. Genitals are only relevant to sex and some medical procedures.
I'm sorry, I should have included the snark tag.
Actually, if she's willing to bottom, you should think carefully about why it's a deal breaker.
And aren't the people calling trans folks "most dangerous" a bunch of people who have penises under their own dresses?
There are documented accounts of Catholic missionaries having Central American natives torn apart by dogs for refusing to convert. But hey, treating trans kids decently is far worse than that.
Bet they told the indigenous peoples they were subjugating that they were "The Religion of Love."
AND peace. The patter just never changes.
Islam claims to be the "Religion of Peace." You know. The religion with the child suicide bombers.
Speaking as an intrinsically disordered annihilator of the concept of nature, my bowel movements have a greater claim on moral authority than Pope Fluffy or his Church- and they smell better, too.
Also, "Intrinsically Disordered Annihilators" would be an awesome band name, if I could carry a tune. Or play any instrument more complicated than a kazoo.
Out trans students to their parents. If that might lead to “physical abuse” at home, staffers must get in touch with the “Diocese Legal Office and the Bishop’s designated moral theologian” to determine next steps.
Legal Office. Protect the church.
Moral theologian. We'll take the parents' confession, but we won't report them to police.
Anyone who needs to consult with someone else on next steps when they know of abuse of a child is a morally depraved monster.
A Catholic, in fact.
And notice it specifies only physical abuse, because psychological abuse doesn't exist in this country. From a church whose entire existence is based on psychological abuse.
"Repent or burn forever!" Why, that's not psychological abuse at all. :S
Slight correction: "Repent or burn forever, and we'll give you a head start by burning you alive here and now!"
To the RCC, that's the good old days.
A quire is four pieces of paper folded over to make a manuscript. The group has four singers (I looked on their website and they showed four men being directed by another). Because I was curious as to why they used a qu rather than ch for their name. I was also interested in their mission statement and if the q might be supportive of the queer community, but there’s nothing on their website to support that hypothesis. I also thought the q might be something to do with the right wing conspiracy theorists, as that letter has some serious connotations nowadays, but there’s nothing on the website to suggest that either, not that I really expected it. So it is about the four pages/four singers.
Something to note though, one of the board members is a priest for the diocese, which might explain a lot.
I noticed that the Diocese requires you to talk to Legal if outing a kid might expose them to abuse. OF COURSE it’s about the Diocese’s legal liability, and NOT the safety of the kid.
"Circle the wagons" defines religion. Protect the faith and demonize the victim.
https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-07-2015/2KGo9R.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvc1I6jsPUo