316 Comments
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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

Makes me think of Joseph Smith, a man convicted of conning people using seeing stones (IIRC more than once) and jailed who, immediately upon release, convicted some idiots that he found a golden tablet that could only be read by himself using seeing stones. No one else got to see the tablets, no one else got to see the stones, no one else was able to verify any of his claims, and yet no one thought he might be a fucking conman. And now we have the blight of 18yo sheltered children in magical underwear roaming the world telling people they’re going to hell for not trusting in them.

And the powers that be think that tarot readings are dangerous.

I think the reason this particular shop was targeted for the “education” was because they are on TikTok and have a following. China must be involved or something.

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Bob Riggins's avatar

**no one thought he might be a fucking conman.**

Well, yeah, lots of people did. That's why he ended (teehee) up in Nauvoo, and his follolwers chased to Utah.

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larry parker's avatar

Hey! Those stones had names, Urim and Thummim, which makes them legit!!!

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Len Koz's avatar

Can I break them with Mjolnir?

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larry parker's avatar

I doubt you are worthy. : )

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cdbunch's avatar

Steve Rodger is. (A cheer literally went up in the theater when he picked up the hammer in Endgame)

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Len Koz's avatar

"Put the hammer in an elevator..."

"Elevator still goes up."

"Elevator's not worthy."

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

2nd floor, hardware, children's wear, lady's lingerie

Oh, good morning Mjolnir, going...down?

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Sean's avatar

Does it depend on who presses the button?

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

I think it’s more like if Mjolnir wants to change floors or not. I don’t think it’s necessarily heavy, just a bit particular. You can see in Thor: Love and Thunder that both Mjolnir and Storm Breaker both had personalities that affected their performance.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I'll stick vibranium. It doesn't judge you.

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cdbunch's avatar

Quite the metal, it even alters DNA.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Captain America's shield can even stand up to Thor's hammer.

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Sue Donovan's avatar

I’d wager the concern was voiced by some pastor.

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Bill Wilson's avatar

Believer beware! Variants masking themselves as Invariants abound. Blind faith draws The Fool every time.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

️🎵 Playin' with the Queen of Hearts

Knowin' it ain't really smart

The Joker ain't the only fool

Who'll do anythin' for you ️🎵

https://youtu.be/P0DK-0fIKCw

Or did you mean this fool?

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.824307eb067bba98147e4bde7c2bff9a?rik=ShkvxXuGGkfojg&pid=ImgRaw&r=0

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Sue Donovan's avatar

IMHO, Linda Ronstadt’s version is the better one.

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Vanity Unfair's avatar

"A Pennsylvania police chief told a tarot card reader they could be jailed under the law"

Should have seen that coming.

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Len Koz's avatar

If asked about psychics, I tell people when I meet a psychic who has won the lottery, THEN I'll believe them.

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larry parker's avatar

According to late night TV ads, California psychics are the best.

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

I wish they all could be California

I wish they all could be California

I wish they all could be California psychics

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Stephen Brady's avatar

What would you like to bet the police chief is an evangelical christian? Nobody else would care. Another case of people with with power trying to force everyone else into their idea of 'normal' behavior. These people are a poison in our society.

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Shuzi's avatar

And the original law was probably made because it was considered blasphemy.

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cdbunch's avatar

As I recall, the Old Testament proscribed (wait for it) death for fortune-telling. I'm sure NoGodz can give us chapter and verse.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Just now seeing this (was away at the VA getting my flu shot and new COVID vaccine).

What a surprise. That death sentence is found in Leviticus (Chapter 20, Verse 27).

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Matri's avatar

Isn't it simply amazing that the parts of Leviticus that preached tolerance and forgiveness and eating shrimp are considered "ceremonial law" while the parts that talk about hating the same people they hate are forever and ever and ever and ever?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

The entire bible is psychotic. Trying to follow everything it says is not only impossible, it's insane.

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Sue Donovan's avatar

It surely did for witches:

Exodus 12:18:

Thou shall not suffer a witch to live...

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Sue Donovan's avatar

They sure are. I believe that a pastor started this. They sincerely believe that witches are in league with Satan. I doubt she’s heard the last of this.

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LisaBL's avatar

Unsolicited “friendly warnings” by uniformed law enforcement, especially the chief, seem eerily like “gee, nice place you’ve got here, it would be a shame if something happened to it.” It’s passive-aggressive intimidation, and an abuse of authority. Another example of an arrogant, small town chief who thinks he can push people around.

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Matri's avatar

The biggest bullies are always those backed by The Church.

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RegularJoe's avatar

“for gain or lucre,… tell fortunes or predict future events.”

So, no churches in town?

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jomicur's avatar

But that's "nonprofit" gain or lucre.

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cdbunch's avatar

Well, it's not profit if you spend it on the parsonage.

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jomicur's avatar

Depends what exactly you spend it on. Repairing the roof, fine. Installing an Olympic-sized swimming pool? Temperature-controlled wine cellar? Swarovski crystal mirror on the bedroom ceiling? Nuh-uh.

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

What about a closet where you can watch your wife being bonked by the pool boy? Tax-deductible?

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jomicur's avatar

🤣 🤣 🤣

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Lynn James's avatar

Ditto!

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cdbunch's avatar

Technically business expenses, not profit. Of course, to anyone with half a brain, it's scam.

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Matri's avatar

So I guess it's lucky for them that they always draw in those with less brains than that.

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RegularJoe's avatar

No, those definitely let Pastor Pervie know that the Lord hears his prayers.

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oraxx's avatar

I don't know which is more absurd, tarot cards, or this law. Funny how they could outlaw tarot card readings for money, while allowing preachers a free hand to spew all manner of super natural nonsense in exchange for ten percent of a person's income.

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Daniel Rotter's avatar

The argument could be made that the latter falls under "freedom of religion" while the former doesn't.

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oraxx's avatar

The state doesn't get to determine what qualifies as a religion. They could easily claim tarot reading is part of their faith.

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ericc's avatar

She could, but to avoid the law she'd probably have to stop charging a fee for service, and ask for voluntary donations instead. Not only is that kinda slimy but it's a difficult business model for a new start small business.

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Lynn James's avatar

I think tarot cards are kind of fun. There are so many ways of interpreting each card or arrangement or cards, it's almost like interpreting Scripture.

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Anri's avatar

I've been working up a Pact of Trumps (unfortunate name, but watcha gonna do?) based on Tarot as a Warlock subclass in 5e D&D. Potentially powerful effects, but randomly selected, and with a few real howlers.

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Robert Jaffee's avatar

Yup, time to jail all those prosperity preachers. After all, when was the last time you gave all your money to the preacher and god paid you back ten-fold!

Next, we need to jail all those meteorologists. First off, they’re still pretty clueless when it comes to predicting the weather.

And of course, Trump, he predicted not only weather events (see Hurricane Dorian would hit Alabama, it didn’t), but said of the National debt; he alone could fix it; instead he added $8.2 trillion to the debt. Republicans also said that they know how to govern, even though, all evidence points to the contrary.

Time to round up all these witches; not because their make predictions, but because they suck at it!

I was once told, I’d be President one day. Imagine to my surprise, I’m not! How cruel was that clairvoyant nut-job? Needless to say, my life has been upended ever since.

Just another reason all these charlatans need to go!...:)

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Sue Donovan's avatar

He also said that Biden is gonna get us into WW2. And that he had won against Barrack Hussein Obama. (He repeated it umpteen times.) But he makes fun of Obama’s mental acuity!

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Matri's avatar

I came across someone who blamed Obama for starting the Second Iraqi War.

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NoOne of Consequence's avatar

“plenty of church leaders literally claim to predict the future ”

Anyone live nearby and up for a lawsuit? 😇

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Sue Donovan's avatar

What harm is there? There has to be actual harm to sue someone. Without demonstrable damages you will never survive a motion to dismiss.

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RegularJoe's avatar

They turned him into a newt.

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Sue Donovan's avatar

An improvement if he’s a tight-ass conservative!

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Matri's avatar

A newt?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

He got better.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

The amphibian, not the gingrich.

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Matri's avatar

Ask the many, many, 𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑦, 𝗺𝗮𝗻𝘆, m𝐚n𝐲, 𝕞𝕒𝕟𝕪, 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎, ʎuɐɯ, ᶆᶏᶇƴ, ⓜⓐⓝⓨ, 𝒎𝓪𝗻𝒚 followers of Harold Camping's 冊m升a力nリy Rapture predictions who quit their jobs, sold all their possessions, and gave away their money in preparation of being raptured with their children.

There's plenty of harm there, especially to the innocent children who are made homeless. But they can't sue because they gave all their money away and can't even afford to stay alive, much less hire a lawyer.

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cdbunch's avatar

Anyone else think this had more to do with Mx Lawrence being non-binary/genderfluid than the tarot readings?

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Sue Donovan's avatar

Nah. I think her identity as a Witch pisses off the small minded evangelicals in town. They think witch = Satan’s follower. That she identifies as gender fluid might be an added bonus but advertising as a witch she might just as well have a flashing red sign saying “HAIL SATAN.” To people with critical thinking skills it’s ridiculous but they sincerely see that store as destroying the lives of good Christians.

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

This song was already going through my head, then I saw your name...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej_8ln8N7ps

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

You know, I had no idea Donovan did that. I always associate it with Steve Stills (I think?).

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cdbunch's avatar

I was raised in an IFB church. Tell me something I don't know. There are 4 other shops in town (of 16k), none of them have mentioned a similar visit.

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Matri's avatar

Christians are incredibly frail. Non-Christians simply existing is enough to destroy them.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

They have a savior who can rise from the dead yet couldn't get figs out of a fig tree when he was alive.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

It'd be 𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘵𝘦 the coincidence for the one local woo-shop that got targeted for special attention by the way-too-long arm of the law to have a gender-nonconforming proprietor, and for that fact to have 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵𝘴𝘰𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳 to do with the Chief's target selection thought process.

...and for the Chief to swing by 𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 to have a "friendly" chat? Something stinks, and it ain't the incense.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Entirely TOO possible...

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ericc's avatar

Yeah my guess is the chief doesn't like her or her shop, for some reason or another. Though my first thought was christian anti-witchiness, not anti-gender.

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cdbunch's avatar

Witches are a lot more common than non-binary people and certainly not getting the same kind of attention or hatred as non cisgender people are getting right now.

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ericc's avatar

That may be true, but the wiccan/witchy vibe of the store is also obvious from a police drive-by, while the gender fluidness of the proprietor is not. So unless the two of them had some prior interaction we don't know about, the Chief's reason to *go into* this store has to be something he saw from outside of it.

As the saying goes, if you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras. If the store facade screams 'witch', think discrimination against witches, not discrimination against trans folk who happen to be witches.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

The news article the police chief read that instigated his visit might have tipped him off to their nonbinary status.

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cdbunch's avatar

Just the use of Mx Lawrence would do it. That's what tipped me off.

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cdbunch's avatar

Hemant mentioned 4 other stores in town.

Edit: All it takes is a little gossip to reach the chief's ears.

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Len Koz's avatar

Maybe they ran into each other at the local donut shop.

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User's avatar
Comment removed
Oct 16, 2023
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Sue Donovan's avatar

Say what?

Witches are very real. There are plenty of covens both here and in Europe.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I think bagso's referring to the broom-riding, hex-hurling types found in fiction. :)

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jomicur's avatar

I know central/rural PA, aka anyplace not Philly or Pittsburgh, a lot better than I wish I did, and either "witch" or "nonbinary" would be enough to trigger an incident like this. Both together? I see throngs of angry, torch-bearing villagers hunting down the monster.

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RegularJoe's avatar

Would Depend® help them not leak gender fluid all over the place as they conduct business with the good citizens of Hootin Hollar?

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

So ... the police won't strongarm church preachers because religion, but they WILL jerk around a tarot card reader for very little reason other than that they CAN. Got it.

Bullies gonna bully.

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Sue Donovan's avatar

The police won’t strong-arm a church because that’s where cops can be found every Sunday. The majority of law enforcement are Republicans as well as evangelical Christians.

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Matri's avatar

Bullies backed by The Church are several orders of magnitude higher up.

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Richard Wade's avatar

Yeah, the immediate comparison to preachers predicting all sorts of future worldly events, as well as the future destination of their suckers' souls is fruit so low-hanging that someone could step on it.

As has been mentioned in the OP and in comments, it's likely that the Evangelical Christian mindset (for want of a better term) is in part behind the original law, possibly involved in this particular police chief's decision to warn, and would most certainly be the motive behind anyone actually filing a complaint.

So all that being the case, pointing out the comparability to the hundreds of Christian soothsayers in Pennsylvania otherwise known as preachers could be a useful argument to spur the state legislators to quickly and quietly abolish this law. Any defense of a defendant would include this argument in a collection of arguments, and at the very least would be embarrassing to the Cleric Class. Most of the state legislators would not want to do that.

What I'm wondering now is among the many absurd, obsolete laws like this one scattered across the country, how many target atheists? We already know that the seven infamous states which still have prohibitions against nonbelievers holding office in their constitutions all had those clauses made at least technically null and void by the SCOTUS long ago.

BUT what about lesser statutes, state, county, or city laws and ordinances that still exist, and could cause plenty of trouble for atheists because they'd have to go through the difficult, expensive, and slow process of defending themselves? Complainants, even knowing that their complaint would probably be rejected in court, might want to file just for the harassment value.

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

That was a different Scotus though wasn't it? God knows what this new one might do given its nutty composition.

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Richard Wade's avatar

Yes, that is now the scary prospect. SCOTUS is currently so awash with scandals about corruption of a few Justices, and statements clearly showing strong religious biases, and the not-so-surprising realization that several of them LIED about "respecting precedent" when they testified in front of the Senate during their confirmation that their public credibility is at an historic low. If a case involving one of these idiotic laws came before them, they might dismiss the case outright, or they might choose to hear it and find against it so they could demonstrate their proper Constitutional neutrality toward religion, OR they might just say "Oh what the hell," and take another Giant Leap for Theocracy and find in favor of the anti-atheist/pro Christian statute, writing all sorts of case law into their opinions.

The current Supreme Court, not the just-barely-held majority of God-bothering Republicans in the House is the worst threat to our civil liberties and our democracy.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

It's pretty damned unusual for the top cop to handle something like this personally, rather than having a subordinate stop by the store to have a "friendly" chat instead; intimidation and shakedowns are beat cop work. And what did he think he needed backup for? Was he scared Mx Lawrence would hex his overbearing ass, or something?

This whole thing 𝘳𝘦𝘦𝘬𝘴 of Chad (because 𝘰𝘧 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘴𝘦 his name is fucking 𝘊𝘩𝘢𝘥) having a personal axe to grind.

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jomicur's avatar

So you're in favor of hanging chad?

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

LOL. Even a non-American can see what you did there.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Any guy I know named Chad better be hung.

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cdbunch's avatar

That depends, do you consider 3 inches hung?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Ultimately, it's not the size. It's how you use it. ;)

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Try to to unscrew a nut with the wrong wrench size. You won't go far however way you use it 😁

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RegularJoe's avatar

I didn't want to go there, but, yeah, that's a *total* 𝘊𝘩𝘢𝘥 move.

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jomicur's avatar

Pennsylvania's legal landscape is littered with obsolete laws, some dating back to colonial times. As of a few years ago it was still a misdemeanor in this state to masturbate, fer chrissake. If that law has been repealed recently, I haven't heard about it, though I suppose it's possible. Every few years the legislature forms a committee to find and repeal obsolete laws, and they usually do find and act on a few, but there are scads left. I guess repealing the no-jerkoff law would be playing whack-a-mole, or something.

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larry parker's avatar

They don't call it a penal code for nothing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVb52pAAwg4

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Joan the Dork's avatar

Don't forget the wacky laws that require beer to be sold in different stores than hard liquor, only two six-packs at a time unless it's a 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘦 store.

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jomicur's avatar

Enacted to placate the churches, especially the Catholics and the Methodists, which were butt-hurt by the repeal of Prohibition.

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

We have laws where spirits can only be sold at a liquor store rather than a supermarket, which can sell beer and wine. I've often wondered why the distinction. I suspect there was political pressure brought to bear although you think that the large supermarket chains would have more clout than liquor stores, many of which are small privately owned – maybe not. I know the alcohol industry is supposed to have had at least one MP in its pocket – allegedly – just in case. 😁

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Here a lot of supermarkets have liquor stores. Even Walmart's have liquor stores.

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cdbunch's avatar

Yeah, the only Walmart liquor store I've ever seen was in Orlando.

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larry parker's avatar

My Walmart has the liquor across the aisle from the eggs and butter.

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

Very handy for the Nog and buttered rum season.

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Lynn James's avatar

In my part of Minnesota, grocery stores and convenience stores aren't allowed to sell beer and wine. They're available only in liquor stores.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

No suitcases in PA?

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

When I was in Japan on holiday I saw little old Japanese people disappearing into liquor stores with – essentially – carry on luggage. I wondered why until I saw the size of the bottles of sake they were buying. 😁 maybe it was a week's supply.

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cdbunch's avatar

You'd think that would be high on the list since the legislators are almost certainly guilty.

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jomicur's avatar

Shh! Don't tell anybody.

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Bob Riggins's avatar

Isn't an investment advisor someone you pay to predict the future for you?

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cdbunch's avatar

For entertainment purposes only.

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

My first thought as I read this: so how is this any different than any religion?

And then Hemant wrote: “ It’s no different, if my opinion, from people wasting their money on other frivolous forms of entertainment…”

LIKE RELIGION.

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larry parker's avatar

Worst. Show. Ever.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Been on the air way too long. Ratings are in a steep decline.

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larry parker's avatar

Jumped the shark a millennium ago.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

During the first episode. 🛵🦈

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NOGODZ20's avatar

And like Star Trek, it took 2 pilots to sell the series (the Old and New Testaments).

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Matri's avatar

Marketed as "wholesome" and "for kids" and then they went and did that incest episode.

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Daniel Rotter's avatar

Like Columbo as well. Sometimes, it takes two to fully develop the main character (in the first pilot, Columbo was more of a conventional, everyday cop).

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Daniel Rotter's avatar

The crazy bearded guy ranting about how he came to "bring a sword" and break up families was an interesting choice by the writers, however. I assume this guy is meant to be the villain....

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NOGODZ20's avatar

And the designated villain seems more intelligent than the main character, constantly pushing his buttons and outwitting him. The big guy seems incapable of getting rid of his nemesis.

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RegularJoe's avatar

I thought his dad was the antagonist? The kid is conflicted.

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

Just saw an article were Trump said “I am willing to go to jail if that’s what it takes for our country to win and become a democracy again.”

A) Yeah, right.

B) Please?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Trump lies as easily as he breathes. Everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie.

If he really believes what he's saying then we'll be looking forward to his admission of guilt for his many crimes. That'll happen about the same time I learn how to flap my arms and fly to Venus.

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cdbunch's avatar

I think he lies easier than he breathes, remember he has trouble getting up shallow ramps.

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Daniel Rotter's avatar

I think that quote from Trump belongs in the "it sounded better in his (Trump's) head" category.

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RegularJoe's avatar

You're gonna leave Levon far behind, eh?

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larry parker's avatar

The willing part is bs, but the rest is spot on.

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Daniel Rotter's avatar

Such phony martyrdom.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

After the Parkland Shooting, Trump claimed he would've run into Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School unarmed.

Uh, sure Jan. This guy would have gone in unarmed while Nikolas Cruz was blasting away? THIS freaking guy?

https://imgur.com/gallery/q1HdtcW

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Daniel Rotter's avatar

The guy who couldn't even walk down a ramp without assistance and needs two hands to drink a glass of water is going to take down an gun-wielding lunatic completely unarmed. Whatever you say Tr(ambo)ump.

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Matri's avatar

Don't forget the golf cart incident.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

You've seen his "trading cards." He envisions himself as Captain America. He doesn't realize he's the Red Skull.

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Matri's avatar

With HIS bone spurs??

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Daniel Rotter's avatar

There's also the stupidity of an unarmed person trying to take on a person with a loaded gun due to the fact that...well, an unarmed person would be trying to take on a person with a loaded gun.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Exactly so. Not just any gun. An assault rifle.

Did Trump think so highly of himself that he could talk the guy down with his "charisma?" He would've been a bloody fool. Literally.

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