"In a weak moment, he did not pick up those weapons, he believed in the lie and he took his own life."
Weak moment my ass. I am disgusted by these preachers behaving badly. To be that willfully ignorant of what depression can do to someone, and to call it weak and selfish is reprehensible, at minimum. Fuck this asshole.
I have not availed myself of using those "weapons" to stop the horrible silent shouting that reverberates in the caverns of my cerebrum.....yet. But there are days.....
That asshat's statements do incite feelings of a rather -cidal nature, but not in a sui- way. That fücker's generating *homi-* feelz.
"Mo had all the weapons available to you, to me and to anyone else to combat the lies of the enemy in that moment. In a weak moment, he did not pick up those weapons, he believed in the lie and he took his own life."
Of course they are going to blame the suicide victim for their own suicide. These are the same people that blame poor people for not believing in god enough to be rich and the sick people for not having enough faith to be healed. If people reach out to people like this and ask for help with their depression they will be told to suck it up and believe more and all will be well. When that inevitably fails, no one questions whether they gave people like Mo the right advice, they blame it on Mo for falling for the enemies lies. They can't even take responsibility for not taking care of one of their own. It's sad that their need for god's message to remain perfect outweighs their need to care for their fellow christians.
Back when I was homeless I ended up in a program at a shelter. Their "counselor" was pathetic. He claimed that because he smoked "opium laced cannabis" once in college he knew addiction. He then tried to tell me that reading one passage from Phillipians(sp) was enough to "cure" my depression and social anxiety. Fuck that asshole, fuck him right in his eye socket. People like that should be drug out into the street and beaten, yes I am still very angry about that crap.
It wasn't until I was able to qualify for therapy at a med center's outreach program that I was actually able to get some help.
500+ @ 50k each is over 25 million dollars that could be better spent in making sure abuse victims are getting the help they need, feeding the poor and housing the homeless instead of planting churches in areas that almost certainly have existing churches in what they will no doubt refer to as a christian nation. And all of it coming from a group that can't even believably pay lip service to the idea of ending abuse. That anyone finds this intelligent and credible is amazing and the fact that billions are fine with it is terrifying.
Hemant wrote "a total of $50,000 to help launch their new churches. More than 500 men are currently going through that process." That sounds like $100 apiece. Either way that's way too much money.
It's most likely 50k each. That would be to cover expenses, but also to help the person live for a year or two while the church is getting up and running. It sounds like it is just an excuse to throw away a lot of money, but they will take every one of those 500 people and count them as a new church that got planted and crow about how successful they are at spreading the good news while ignoring that most of those 500 new churches is the one guy and a couple of his friends meeting in his living room and calling themselves a church.
“… I think that needs to be exposed. My concern is, the moment we live in lumps guys into that category who don’t belong there.”
“He didn’t need to say that last line. But he did. Instead of just saying those bad apples needed to be eradicated from white evangelical culture, he tossed in an additional comment about how our culture goes too far in accusing people of abuse.”
Because he doesn’t believe most of what is abuse is actually abusive. Half of what these preachers do as abuse is straight from their dogma, the other half has been excused and ignored by our society for generations. Even when something is obviously abuse and criminal, it takes years of debate and societal shifts to litigate. Marital rape became criminal in all fifty states only in 1993, after an incredibly extreme case was litigated on television and there are still people who claim there’s no such thing as marital rape. It is mainly because the same type of people in power who put the abuse in place are still in power to keep the abuse normalized. They are defending their abuse because they don’t want to be held accountable for it and they don’t want to change their ways, they just want to continue to get away with it. This exact situation is a microcosm of the overall issue.
"... that the Christian religion is fundamentally broken, its own adherents keep demonstrating that fact. ..."
It's quite reasonable to say that it started February 27th, 380 when it was declared state religion of the Roman Empire. The worst aspects of human nature combined with the power that you'll find in almost every form of government combined with absolute religious power is a guarantee for corruption and abuse. They had around 1800 years to root their power into our collective consciousness, let's hope it will not take as long to grow out of it.
The church of the Inquisitions, Crusades, Medieval Witch Hunts, Conquistadors, convert-or-die missionaries, canoodling with Nazis, etc. has the gall to utter the words "cancel culture."
Thanks for posting the links. I made a small donation to the Dallas charity and would encourage others to contribute what you can. I know how tight things are for a lot of us right now.
I wouldn't be so sure since one is a bit to Judeo to fit into the SBC's idea of Judeo-christianity and there is something that is just not white about the other one.
"Mark, you have a head. It's not really your head; it's on loan from God. But your head needs a place to live. See that vice over there? Your head fits very nicely in there if you put your ears inside and have someone turn the crank."
Forgiveness doesn't mean that you escape the consequences of your actions. If you get drunk and crash a car and lose a limb, God's forgiveness doesn't mean that you get a new leg or arm. If you take advantage of others through your religious ministry like Bakker then you ought to not be involved in any in the future. That is, how I understand what the NT says about the moral requirements for church leadership.
"There is a luxury in self-reproach. When we blame ourselves we feel that no one else has a right to blame us. It is the confession, not the priest, that gives us absolution." - Oscar Wilde, 'The Picture of Dorian Gray'
But if you get drunk, crash your car, and kill an innocent motorist, gawds right there to forgive you. You're absolved of any feeling of personal responsibility just like that.
Forgiveness doesn't mean that you are no longer are responsible for the harm you did or the need to do what you can to ameliorate it or that you can avoid the consequences. God may have forgiven David but that didn't keep the remainder of his life from suffering the consequences of committing adultery and murder.
That's why Christians are told in several passages to examine ourselves to make sure that we aren't fooling ourselves. Jesus' story about how he never knew all those who claimed to be doing great things for God is a warning for believers. That's why the phrase "Kyrie Eleison" for "Lord, have mercy" ought to be part of our daily prayers.
But christians do get let out of consequences, maybe not major consequences that involve health or, to a lesser extent, the courts, but christians are very often eager to drive off the accuser than they are to hold their fellow christians responsible.
Yet another sad chapter in the never-ending story of religious malfeasance. I would say that they seem incapable of learning except I suspect that the pressures not to learn in order to keep the revenue stream flowing are too great.
OT : I am watching a musical program on TV. Traditional Middle East and African instruments mixed with Middle Age/Renaissance westerners ones and Arab/Berber singers Music has really no frontier.
Edit for Zorg : I was finally able to activate the captions. The icon with the settings didn't appear the first few times I loaded the video.
Over on the Christianity Today FB forum, this article is also getting a shellacking from many of the posters for the same reasons given by Hemant and others in the comments below.
I've suggested on their site that every church and religious organization ought to have a couple of atheists on their board to keep things in line since we obviously don't seem to be able to do so on our own.
"In a weak moment, he did not pick up those weapons, he believed in the lie and he took his own life."
Weak moment my ass. I am disgusted by these preachers behaving badly. To be that willfully ignorant of what depression can do to someone, and to call it weak and selfish is reprehensible, at minimum. Fuck this asshole.
If you are looking for empathy from a christian preacher you're gonna have a bad time.
Not found in their babble or doctrine.
Empathy is found in nature. Once again we see that sacred texts/doctrine are unnatural.
I have not availed myself of using those "weapons" to stop the horrible silent shouting that reverberates in the caverns of my cerebrum.....yet. But there are days.....
That asshat's statements do incite feelings of a rather -cidal nature, but not in a sui- way. That fücker's generating *homi-* feelz.
Fück this asshole indeed.....
With a pineapple.
Grenade.
Sans clip and pin.
Spoon popped.
I would have gone with a sandpaper dildo.
As they say, to-MAY-to, Nuke.
"Mo had all the weapons available to you, to me and to anyone else to combat the lies of the enemy in that moment. In a weak moment, he did not pick up those weapons, he believed in the lie and he took his own life."
Of course they are going to blame the suicide victim for their own suicide. These are the same people that blame poor people for not believing in god enough to be rich and the sick people for not having enough faith to be healed. If people reach out to people like this and ask for help with their depression they will be told to suck it up and believe more and all will be well. When that inevitably fails, no one questions whether they gave people like Mo the right advice, they blame it on Mo for falling for the enemies lies. They can't even take responsibility for not taking care of one of their own. It's sad that their need for god's message to remain perfect outweighs their need to care for their fellow christians.
All the dead bodies lying on the beach at Normandy had all the same weapons as those who survived.
Will they blame those men for dying too?
I think I see a valley
Covered with bones in blue
All the brave soldiers that cannot get older
Been asking after you
~ S. Stills
Back when I was homeless I ended up in a program at a shelter. Their "counselor" was pathetic. He claimed that because he smoked "opium laced cannabis" once in college he knew addiction. He then tried to tell me that reading one passage from Phillipians(sp) was enough to "cure" my depression and social anxiety. Fuck that asshole, fuck him right in his eye socket. People like that should be drug out into the street and beaten, yes I am still very angry about that crap.
It wasn't until I was able to qualify for therapy at a med center's outreach program that I was actually able to get some help.
500+ @ 50k each is over 25 million dollars that could be better spent in making sure abuse victims are getting the help they need, feeding the poor and housing the homeless instead of planting churches in areas that almost certainly have existing churches in what they will no doubt refer to as a christian nation. And all of it coming from a group that can't even believably pay lip service to the idea of ending abuse. That anyone finds this intelligent and credible is amazing and the fact that billions are fine with it is terrifying.
If they did all that they may be mistaken for one of those socialist liberal hippie kkkhristains.
Hemant wrote "a total of $50,000 to help launch their new churches. More than 500 men are currently going through that process." That sounds like $100 apiece. Either way that's way too much money.
It's most likely 50k each. That would be to cover expenses, but also to help the person live for a year or two while the church is getting up and running. It sounds like it is just an excuse to throw away a lot of money, but they will take every one of those 500 people and count them as a new church that got planted and crow about how successful they are at spreading the good news while ignoring that most of those 500 new churches is the one guy and a couple of his friends meeting in his living room and calling themselves a church.
And planning how to spend the money on their next missionary trip to Las Vegas.
All those heathens to save. Showgirls, gamblers, comedians, Chippendales, etc...
WE MUST save the precious Chippendales.
Hello Mike.
I call dibs on the Chippendales.
Actually got a photo with the cast after a show in Vegas a couple of years ago. (Alas, they had pants on)
I love those guys! Alvin, Simon, Theodore....and yeah, even Dave. 😁
What about Gadget Hackwrench, Monterey Jack, and Zipper?
https://xilam.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/chip-n-dale.jpg
“… I think that needs to be exposed. My concern is, the moment we live in lumps guys into that category who don’t belong there.”
“He didn’t need to say that last line. But he did. Instead of just saying those bad apples needed to be eradicated from white evangelical culture, he tossed in an additional comment about how our culture goes too far in accusing people of abuse.”
Because he doesn’t believe most of what is abuse is actually abusive. Half of what these preachers do as abuse is straight from their dogma, the other half has been excused and ignored by our society for generations. Even when something is obviously abuse and criminal, it takes years of debate and societal shifts to litigate. Marital rape became criminal in all fifty states only in 1993, after an incredibly extreme case was litigated on television and there are still people who claim there’s no such thing as marital rape. It is mainly because the same type of people in power who put the abuse in place are still in power to keep the abuse normalized. They are defending their abuse because they don’t want to be held accountable for it and they don’t want to change their ways, they just want to continue to get away with it. This exact situation is a microcosm of the overall issue.
If there was any doubt that the Christian religion is fundamentally broken, its own adherents keep demonstrating that fact.
"... that the Christian religion is fundamentally broken, its own adherents keep demonstrating that fact. ..."
It's quite reasonable to say that it started February 27th, 380 when it was declared state religion of the Roman Empire. The worst aspects of human nature combined with the power that you'll find in almost every form of government combined with absolute religious power is a guarantee for corruption and abuse. They had around 1800 years to root their power into our collective consciousness, let's hope it will not take as long to grow out of it.
this from the guy whose imaginary leader is the cancel king https://www.yahoo.com/news/pope-condemns-cancel-culture-rejects-134848670.html
The church of the Inquisitions, Crusades, Medieval Witch Hunts, Conquistadors, convert-or-die missionaries, canoodling with Nazis, etc. has the gall to utter the words "cancel culture."
Excommunication and the threat of it.
Excommunication is off the table for now. They are losing so many thy don't dare threaten excommunication. I think too many have said "Bring it on."
I told the local bitchup I wanted my writ of excommunication 24x36 inches and suitable for framing.
Church planting? Sounds like an agenda.
You know....that thing Christians accuse LGBTQs and others of having but can never show any evidence of.
I am thinking that my LGBT agenda is to join that church planting program and use the money to help homeless LGBT youth.
Well, that's a cue if I've ever seen one:
Homeless LGBT Youth Charities:
https://www.dallashopecharities.org/programs/dallas-hope-center/ - Dallas Hope Center - Dallas, TX
https://www.thriveyouthcenter.org/ - Thrive Youth Center - San Antonio, TX
http://duneslgbtfoundation.org/ - Dune LGBT Foundation - Ft. Worth, TX
https://www.aliforneycenter.org/ - Ali Forney Center - New York City, NY
https://lalgbtcenter.org/social-service-and-housing/youth/homelessness - LA LGBT Center - Los Angeles, CA
https://www.ruthelliscenter.org/ - Ruth Ellis Center - Detroit, MI
https://larkinstreetyouth.org/ - Larkin Street Youth - San Francisco, CA
https://www.sfcenter.org/lgbt-san-francisco/homeless-lgbtq-youth/ - SF LGBT Center - San Francisco, CA
https://www.outyouth.org/ - Out Youth - Austin, TX
https://www.facebook.com/Thetransitionalcenter/ - The Transitional Support Center - El Paso, TX
https://truecolorsunited.org/> - True Colors United - National Advocacy organization
https://homelessgaykidshouston.org/ - Homless Gay Kids Houston - Houston, TX
All a better way to spend their money than on planting "churches".
Thanks for posting the links. I made a small donation to the Dallas charity and would encourage others to contribute what you can. I know how tight things are for a lot of us right now.
I'm sure they have checks in place to weed out people like you. Because you aren't an abuser.
I do try to limit my abuse to alcohol, drugs and the 3 second rule. =)
3 sec. rule?
Safe following distance rule in driving.
I thought it was the rule about eating food dropped on the floor.
Never! I am not trying to Jayne Mansfield myself.
Are you sure it's about driving ? We are talking about Tawreos :D
3 full seconds ? Overachiever.
That makes you far more a follower of Jesus than Christians who pay lip service to doing what their savior tells them. :)
The thing about Jesus is that you can use his words to support any activity, up to and including genocide.
"...lumps guys into that category who don’t belong there."
Name one.
No doubt in my mind, both Weinstein and Cosby would be on this asshat's list.
I wouldn't be so sure since one is a bit to Judeo to fit into the SBC's idea of Judeo-christianity and there is something that is just not white about the other one.
Fuck you SuckStack.
Only another couple of weeks. (You didn't believe that "early" January overly optimistic guesstimate?)
Ya can't trust nobody with nothin'.
Once they do launch, I expect it'll take six weeks to work out the major bugs.
For sanity's sake I should...
Honestly, that feels more like a Patheos issue than Disqus...
Yup. Patheos were the blue noses. Disqus had the tech chimps that liked to 'improve' things.
It was Patheos, all the things we could no longer do still worked on The Devil's Panties' Disqus.
“For example, Acts 29 was founded by Mark Driscoll, the spiritually abusive, misogynistic, plagiarizing internet troll.”
Lest we forget, this is the same scumbag who referred to women as “penis homes”.
You're fucking kidding me. Please tell me you're kidding. I'm so afraid you're not kidding.
... seems the actual quote is even crazier.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mark-driscoll-women-as-pe_b_5804964
"Mark, you have a head. It's not really your head; it's on loan from God. But your head needs a place to live. See that vice over there? Your head fits very nicely in there if you put your ears inside and have someone turn the crank."
JUST wish sudden explosive diarrhea stuck in traffic in the middle of a sneezing fit.
But he doesn't have to worry about the complaints against him as he knows that he is forgiven in gawds eyes.
The Get Out of Jail FREE religion.
When you're a member of the Cult of the Cross you never have to take responsibility for your actions.
need a free get out of religion jail card
Have you seen how many criminals "see the light" while in jail? And immediately put sunglasses back on when they get out?
Makes a person wonder why perps always find Jesus after they land in the slammer and not before.
Is it truly that hard for them to find a Christian church in America? To locate a sect of Christianity that "fits their pistol" (so to speak)?
Now that's unfair. A good number of them have been church-going Christians for years.
Forgiveness doesn't mean that you escape the consequences of your actions. If you get drunk and crash a car and lose a limb, God's forgiveness doesn't mean that you get a new leg or arm. If you take advantage of others through your religious ministry like Bakker then you ought to not be involved in any in the future. That is, how I understand what the NT says about the moral requirements for church leadership.
"There is a luxury in self-reproach. When we blame ourselves we feel that no one else has a right to blame us. It is the confession, not the priest, that gives us absolution." - Oscar Wilde, 'The Picture of Dorian Gray'
Interesting thought! The question is whether that confession leads to repentance and right actions intended to help those whom we wronged.
But if you get drunk, crash your car, and kill an innocent motorist, gawds right there to forgive you. You're absolved of any feeling of personal responsibility just like that.
Forgiveness doesn't mean that you are no longer are responsible for the harm you did or the need to do what you can to ameliorate it or that you can avoid the consequences. God may have forgiven David but that didn't keep the remainder of his life from suffering the consequences of committing adultery and murder.
To you, but there are millions of Christians who think otherwise and plenty of preachers who tell them so.
You are right.
Considering it’s all made up and the sins don’t matter, both factions are gonna reach the same place.
That's why Christians are told in several passages to examine ourselves to make sure that we aren't fooling ourselves. Jesus' story about how he never knew all those who claimed to be doing great things for God is a warning for believers. That's why the phrase "Kyrie Eleison" for "Lord, have mercy" ought to be part of our daily prayers.
But christians do get let out of consequences, maybe not major consequences that involve health or, to a lesser extent, the courts, but christians are very often eager to drive off the accuser than they are to hold their fellow christians responsible.
Like the Jan 6 insurrectionists getting only 14 days jail time.
Unfortunately, you are right.
Yet another sad chapter in the never-ending story of religious malfeasance. I would say that they seem incapable of learning except I suspect that the pressures not to learn in order to keep the revenue stream flowing are too great.
OT : I am watching a musical program on TV. Traditional Middle East and African instruments mixed with Middle Age/Renaissance westerners ones and Arab/Berber singers Music has really no frontier.
Edit for Zorg : I was finally able to activate the captions. The icon with the settings didn't appear the first few times I loaded the video.
I am glad you got it to work. 🙂
Ooh, got a title?
The program name was "Les matinales" on France 3. I will try to find a link.
This show?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14661626/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
https://mobile.france.tv/france-3/les-matinales/ but the one I watched is not online.
Votre opérateur vous localise dans une zone pour laquelle cette vidéo n’est pas disponible (États-Unis)
Your operator locates you in an area for which this video is not available (United States)
Time to turn on the VPN and go to France.
In the mean time: https://youtu.be/mSlIaTf7VI8
Women's 200-meter medley? Well, at least the American won. Murka! Murka!! Murka!!!
Edit - to add the original French. WTF was I thinking? Sure I had to use google translate, but Pandora doesn't. SMH!
Not what I watched but since there was a Kora player in my show. Enjoy.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8wWPC8edho8
Zimmerman on religious oppression. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH7-GKiQXNE
Over on the Christianity Today FB forum, this article is also getting a shellacking from many of the posters for the same reasons given by Hemant and others in the comments below.
I've suggested on their site that every church and religious organization ought to have a couple of atheists on their board to keep things in line since we obviously don't seem to be able to do so on our own.
I regularly post there and will share insights I learn from atheists in this forum.
"planting churches".....like planting bombs, but ultimately far more damaging.
OT - Flex Mentallo is in the American version of Ghosts.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11379026/?ref_=tt_ov_inf