Where there is the expectation of privilege, equality will be seen as persecution. Few groups expect privilege quite like the conservative Christians in this country, who can never stop trying to mark their territory in the public square owned by everyone.
Why can’t they put it up on their own land? The land is only sacred to you because you pissed on it 50 years ago, not because it has any real meaning. When the land went to the city for a park, the cross should have moved elsewhere. And if the land was so sacred, the Lions Club should have gotten the whole thing, not just the cross.
So what if the city wants an unencumbered park? That’s part of having public spaces. The park belongs to the whole city, not just the Christians who throw temper tantrums whenever someone else gets attention.
Why can’t Christians just look the other way regarding LGBT people? Or mosques or any number of other things they flip out over?
Sadly, Christians like those who put up the cross in the first place are so about marking their territory that opposing them amounts to the usual perception of persecution ... to which I say, tough shit. The breakdown of State / Church separation in this country has seriously worried me over the last few years, and to see at least one city official and judge treat that doctrine as seriously as they did helps me think that maybe we're not the only ones thinking in these terms.
Don't you know? ALL American land is owned by Christians. They didn't commit genocide against indigenous peoples only to cede the land back, after all. :S
If supporting Christian practices is so important to this Lions club, then the obvious question is "Why don't you hold services with a Christian cross at your Lions clubhouse?" The answer, of course, is that, per the rules of the national Lions Clubs organization, member clubs are not supposed to endorse political or religious views or practices. They're supposed to be a conforming chapter of a non-denominational, neutral, service-oriented national organization. This local Lions club is damaging the Lions brand. I'm surprised the leadership of the national governing body isn't having a fit over this .
Notice how when it comes to things like drag shows, pride parades etc etc they sure AF won't "just not look at it" instead they scream about it "being shoved down their throat". FFS they can't even handle BOOKS BEING ON SHELVES in a fucking library they even walk into. They can't even handle a BUSINESS selling t-shirts with a rainbow. But their giant death cult symbol must stay...
𝗣𝗥𝗘𝗖𝗜𝗦𝗘𝗟𝗬. Atheists have been saying this for AGES. That we now have a federal judge saying the same thing tells me that our message is finally starting to register with those who value State / Church separation.
I sincerely hope this is the pattern for things to come.
Cross or not cross, the city owning all the land where the park is except for a little plot is quite ridiculous. I hope the judge will rule in favor of the city.
It's not clear that the Lions own the *land.* They own an easement to *access* that strip of land to get to the cross for maintenance purposes. But the cross was on the land when the City acquired it. So if the cross was on the land, and the transfer of the land did not specifically state that the Lions had ownership of the cross, then it seems to me that the City inherited the cross when they took ownership of the land, and the City is therefore the rightful owner of the cross and can do with it what it wants.
Good to see that torture/execution eyesore taken down and no longer despoiling nature.
Wanna put these things up in public places, cristers? Then take one and have your fellow believers nail you up to hang there for a few hours of agony. See if you still think it's so great.
No, it's public land you've decided is "sacred." This is meaningless, especially to those of us who don't believe in christianity. Years ago, they were dropping crosses everywhere on public land, essentially acting like dogs claiming a fire hydrant by peeing on it. Google 'Mt. Soledad cross' to see the convoluted machinations that allows them to keep their cross, only labeled now as a 'Veterans' Memorial.' That argument happened in the 90s, I bet the results would be different these days.
But they want everyone to KNOW they're praying. It's performative. "Look at what a good, upstanding, moral person I am! Iiiii'm a CHRISTIAN!" These are not the people quietly and humbly living the tenets of their faith by performing selfless acts of social support for their fellow humans.
Pushing the Christian brand is the same thing as Kayleigh Mcenany showcasing a cross around her neck all the time, even when she was functioning as a high-profile representative of the criminal Trump White House.
People who actually live The Golden Rule don't need to advertise it.
"The cross never should have gone up in the first place."
So long as the plot of ground its on was private, there wasn't an issue. I mean, aside from the fact that it's rather tacky of you to force a torture symbol on your neighbors.
There are better ways to advertise your beliefs: Feeding the poor. Building houses for the homeless. Creating community gardens. Funding charitable health clinics. Planting fruit trees on your property and allowing people to harvest what they need from them. Funding a scholarship for students in need to go to college. Funding religiously neutral afterschool programs for children that need a safe space because their parent(s) work(s).
There’s also the element of “those things will help those people, those people are unworthy of aid and therefore I won’t let them have it.” And you know who I’m talking about when they say those people.
Actually, they would have been in his wrists. nails in hand could rip through as the weight of the body pulls it downwards. All those Catholic saints got their stigmata in the wrong place!
Where there is the expectation of privilege, equality will be seen as persecution. Few groups expect privilege quite like the conservative Christians in this country, who can never stop trying to mark their territory in the public square owned by everyone.
When you think wearing a mask is "oppression", you really have no idea what real repression is.
Well said. Yes.
Why can’t they put it up on their own land? The land is only sacred to you because you pissed on it 50 years ago, not because it has any real meaning. When the land went to the city for a park, the cross should have moved elsewhere. And if the land was so sacred, the Lions Club should have gotten the whole thing, not just the cross.
So what if the city wants an unencumbered park? That’s part of having public spaces. The park belongs to the whole city, not just the Christians who throw temper tantrums whenever someone else gets attention.
Why can’t Christians just look the other way regarding LGBT people? Or mosques or any number of other things they flip out over?
"The land is only sacred to you because you pissed on it 50 years ago"
Val you made my day. They are the same people who have no problems when American Native (sacred) land is seized.
Sadly, Christians like those who put up the cross in the first place are so about marking their territory that opposing them amounts to the usual perception of persecution ... to which I say, tough shit. The breakdown of State / Church separation in this country has seriously worried me over the last few years, and to see at least one city official and judge treat that doctrine as seriously as they did helps me think that maybe we're not the only ones thinking in these terms.
It REALLY feels good to hear.
Don't you know? ALL American land is owned by Christians. They didn't commit genocide against indigenous peoples only to cede the land back, after all. :S
If supporting Christian practices is so important to this Lions club, then the obvious question is "Why don't you hold services with a Christian cross at your Lions clubhouse?" The answer, of course, is that, per the rules of the national Lions Clubs organization, member clubs are not supposed to endorse political or religious views or practices. They're supposed to be a conforming chapter of a non-denominational, neutral, service-oriented national organization. This local Lions club is damaging the Lions brand. I'm surprised the leadership of the national governing body isn't having a fit over this .
Notice how when it comes to things like drag shows, pride parades etc etc they sure AF won't "just not look at it" instead they scream about it "being shoved down their throat". FFS they can't even handle BOOKS BEING ON SHELVES in a fucking library they even walk into. They can't even handle a BUSINESS selling t-shirts with a rainbow. But their giant death cult symbol must stay...
It's the usual deal: "Rules for thee but not for me."
𝑇ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛 𝑓𝑎𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑚𝑎𝑦 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑙𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑠𝑜𝑚𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑐𝑙𝑢𝑠𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑜𝑟𝑑𝑒𝑟. 𝐼𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑡𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒𝑠 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑛𝑒𝑑, ℎ𝑜𝑤𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑎 𝑆𝑡𝑎𝑟 𝑜𝑓 𝐷𝑎𝑣𝑖𝑑 𝑜𝑟 𝑆𝑡𝑎𝑟 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝐶𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑐𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑎𝑑 𝑏𝑙𝑎𝑧𝑒𝑑 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑡𝑜𝑝 𝑜𝑓 𝐴𝑙𝑏𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝐻𝑖𝑙𝑙, ℎ𝑜𝑤 𝑤𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑓𝑒𝑒𝑙?
𝗣𝗥𝗘𝗖𝗜𝗦𝗘𝗟𝗬. Atheists have been saying this for AGES. That we now have a federal judge saying the same thing tells me that our message is finally starting to register with those who value State / Church separation.
I sincerely hope this is the pattern for things to come.
Maybe he is one.
Honestly, I hope he isn't. I'd much rather he be a person of faith. It would help the change come from within their own tribe.
"𝐹𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑚𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑙𝑜𝑐𝑎𝑙 𝑔𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑝 𝑜𝑓 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 𝑤𝑎𝑛𝑡 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑒𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑟𝑜𝑠𝑠 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑦, 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑦𝑜𝑢'𝑣𝑒 ℎ𝑎𝑑 𝑠𝑢𝑐ℎ 𝑝𝑟𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑙𝑒𝑔𝑒 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑠𝑜 𝑙𝑜𝑛𝑔, 𝑙𝑜𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑖𝑡 𝑓𝑒𝑒𝑙𝑠 𝑙𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑏𝑒𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑜𝑝𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑒𝑑. 𝑇ℎ𝑎𝑡'𝑠 𝑔𝑜𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑏𝑒 𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑑𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑓𝑜𝑙𝑘𝑠, 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝐼 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑘 𝑤𝑒 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑔𝑒𝑡 𝑢𝑠𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑖𝑡, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝐼 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑘 𝑖𝑡'𝑠 𝑎 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑙 𝑏𝑒𝑛𝑒𝑓𝑖𝑡."
An 𝘦𝘭𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘰𝘧𝘧𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 recognizing and calling out Christian Privilege? I am truly impressed. Thank you, Mayor Tiedemann.
Cross or not cross, the city owning all the land where the park is except for a little plot is quite ridiculous. I hope the judge will rule in favor of the city.
It's not clear that the Lions own the *land.* They own an easement to *access* that strip of land to get to the cross for maintenance purposes. But the cross was on the land when the City acquired it. So if the cross was on the land, and the transfer of the land did not specifically state that the Lions had ownership of the cross, then it seems to me that the City inherited the cross when they took ownership of the land, and the City is therefore the rightful owner of the cross and can do with it what it wants.
Good to see that torture/execution eyesore taken down and no longer despoiling nature.
Wanna put these things up in public places, cristers? Then take one and have your fellow believers nail you up to hang there for a few hours of agony. See if you still think it's so great.
DAYS works better for me.
I gave them a break and left out the scourging, crown of thorns and spear in the side.
Don't forget the vinegar on the sponge to drink when he thirsted.
I wonder. Was it vinegar or posca ?
Sour wine.
And that.
I think we should replace the cross with an electric chair, then everyone would be satisfied.
I want a guillotine.
Hmmm, we'll have to hash this out in committee.
Why not both? Run power through the blade.
Fire hazard.
Well it is all about the eternal fire of damnation.
We sent Lafayette*
* OK c'êtait probablement plus pour faire chier les Anglais que pour une autre raison mais quand même 😁
Ok it was probably more to piss off the English than for any other reason but still.
1789.....silence
1812......silence
1830......silence
1848......silence
1871......silence
1917......Lafayette, we are here.
Qu'est-ce qui a pris si longtemps?
Yeah. Might have trouble hanging a firing squad around one's neck.
"It's sacred ground to us," they whine.
No, it's public land you've decided is "sacred." This is meaningless, especially to those of us who don't believe in christianity. Years ago, they were dropping crosses everywhere on public land, essentially acting like dogs claiming a fire hydrant by peeing on it. Google 'Mt. Soledad cross' to see the convoluted machinations that allows them to keep their cross, only labeled now as a 'Veterans' Memorial.' That argument happened in the 90s, I bet the results would be different these days.
BTW, I am a veteran. But I am NOT a christian!
I would think sitting under a cross is not a requirement for prayer. Those who want to pray there can still do it, right?
But they want everyone to KNOW they're praying. It's performative. "Look at what a good, upstanding, moral person I am! Iiiii'm a CHRISTIAN!" These are not the people quietly and humbly living the tenets of their faith by performing selfless acts of social support for their fellow humans.
Pushing the Christian brand is the same thing as Kayleigh Mcenany showcasing a cross around her neck all the time, even when she was functioning as a high-profile representative of the criminal Trump White House.
People who actually live The Golden Rule don't need to advertise it.
Very true. And maybe what they most want is for OTHER Christians to see them lol
Their god is everywhere, so why would they even need church buildings?
"The cross never should have gone up in the first place."
So long as the plot of ground its on was private, there wasn't an issue. I mean, aside from the fact that it's rather tacky of you to force a torture symbol on your neighbors.
There are better ways to advertise your beliefs: Feeding the poor. Building houses for the homeless. Creating community gardens. Funding charitable health clinics. Planting fruit trees on your property and allowing people to harvest what they need from them. Funding a scholarship for students in need to go to college. Funding religiously neutral afterschool programs for children that need a safe space because their parent(s) work(s).
THAT costs money!!! We want NO part of spendoing OUR money to help others!!! WE DESERVE AND NEED ALL of our billions of dollars.
There’s also the element of “those things will help those people, those people are unworthy of aid and therefore I won’t let them have it.” And you know who I’m talking about when they say those people.
"Me that's ugly!"
- Jesus
Why would he want his followers to remind him of the worst time in his life?
It was a bad weekend, but he got better.
Except for those pesky holes in his hands, feet and side.
Seems like his return was somewhat flawed.
Actually, they would have been in his wrists. nails in hand could rip through as the weight of the body pulls it downwards. All those Catholic saints got their stigmata in the wrong place!
They mostly tied the hands using rope on crucifixion's, not nails.
EDIT: I mean wrists..
I was going to mention that too.
https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.42674f91e38fa9c79fbc02f6443c963d?rik=JJDLdVFVQF8Uiw&pid=ImgRaw&r=0
The right tool for the right job does wonders.
Wilson's nails! I'm made somebody fall off their chair with that joke.
Why would he still have scars in his incorruptible body after resurrection?
Forget it, Jake. It's the bible.
I like wolverine's powers better than Jesus if he still scars.
OT : I hear a cane and a familiar voice in the stairwell 😭
Yay!!
REALLY? May I ask what's up?
Actually down, DM is currently sitting on my chair after more ghan 2 weeks at the hospital.
OUTSTANDING NEWS!!!
GA teacher fired. Of course she was. Can't be hav ing acceptance in GA. https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/georgia-teacher-faces-termination-after-reading-book-about-acceptance-to-class-185672261786?cid=eml_mda_20230629&user_email=2d93ea6ec2b54d8dbdfe1208627778ba780bdb482c6dcdff0f924f387cc932f7
https://friendlyatheist.substack.com/p/is-the-supreme-court-case-involving/comments
The 3 Wit sisters. enjoy the laugh
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356364331_683535987211312_9164988998050603250_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&cb=99be929b-59f725be&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=O6hORWlw62kAX9ExQBw&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfAk3PeX8-STPJoS798W7h6r2enSRzmjqbDhwd7A-XG7Iw&oe=64A38D65
They make the Three Stooges look like Rhodes Scholars.
I can see this escalating to a higher court which would cite the Bladensburg precedent to say the cross has to go back up. Because tradition.