Did Heine Bros fire her fir being a Christian? No. They fired her for using her Christianity to create a hostile work environment. Did they violate the First Amendment? Last I checked, a private business is not the government.
Any reasonable judge, after looking past her assertions to what actually happened, should toss this frivolous lawsuit.
That the 1A restricts government and only government is a fact I find myself repeating ad nauseum at Christian Post. Then I point out that wanting government to go after private employers about religion isn’t very conservative, is it? More like authoritarian.
I doubt the average Christian fascist actually knows the meaning of conservative, socialism, or any number of words the MAGAS toss around. Plus, the MAGAS won’t look up words in the dictionary because dictionaries and encyclopedias are books that are written by the devil ( yes, I had a Christian tell me that, I was awe struck at the statement).
I’ve had the Satan’s dictionary comment too. Specifically, the word and definition in question was “murder”. A key element of the def is that the killing is illegal. Hence, a legal abortion is not murder. “It is in Jesus’ dictionary. You’re using Satan’s dictionary.”
Naturally, I asked for a link to the Jesus dictionary. Crickets.
And here I thought a dictionaries and encyclopedias are just dictionaries and encyclopedias! How can people have a conversation or an important discussion if the Christians don’t understand what words really mean or the Christians have different definitions for words that don’t actually fit with what the words actually mean! (Sorry for the poor phrasing, hard to express it so it makes sense what I am trying to say).
I know exactly what you mean. “Bespoke” definitions are all the rage with fundamentalists, in my experience. Starting with “Christian”. Lots of bagpipes!
Due to the fact the Christians don’t actually know what the words actually mean, so when the Christians use a word (words) they have another definition in mind. That is my guess anyway!
I really should start documenting the personalized definitions I come across on CP. Right now I'm arguing that Messianic Jews are not actually Jewish in any religious sense. Culturally? I'll buy that. But we have a word in English for people who think Jesus is the Messiah and "Jew" ain't the word.
"MJs" are Christians who employ Jewish rituals in their practice of their Christian faith.
If you do that you could write a book called Christian dictionary: words that don’t mean what Christian think the words mean, or you could title as: Christianise to Actual English!
I'm sorry for being vague, John. I can't imagine a "true Christian" walking away from money. By that point, most of the work was done and he didn't really have to be there at all. (It all felt a bit performative to me. Who knows? How does the song go, "Nobody knows, but Jesus."?)
There are some issues with this house, but my parents wouldn't ever have been likely to sue, and they're both gone now. (Besides, the family grew tobacco for some 150+ years, and some still do. Shame can be a powerful drug....)
"dictionaries and encyclopedias are books that are written by the devil"
Since when? Where in the world did they ever get such made up, preposterous nonsense about dictionaries and encyclopedias being of the Devil from? All while looking up Google which is an online dictionary itself?
Since never, but that was the answer I got when I told a Christian to look up what socialism actually means, instead going on about how socialists that supported Hitler!
I'm so tired of people bringing up 1A on all sides of the spectrum, but especially right wing people because they claim it as part of their personality... 1A protects you from the government, not friends, family or your employer.
Just recently someone was arrested for standing on a public sidewalk and shouting, without amplification, at the church in St. Paul where a minister is also an ICE employee. The church Don Lemon was at but this was a separate incident. Charges were dismissed by a judge almost immediately.
CP commenter invoked 1A. I hastened to point out that government was not restricting the church in any way at all but arresting someone engaging in free speech on a public sidewalk might well be a violation of 1A. No response.
There is no hate like Christian love. To tell her coworker not that she had to stop intimate relations with her partners, but that she had to 𝘴𝘵𝘰𝘱 𝘭𝘰𝘷𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 if she became a Christian is downright cruel. Basically, Ms Roger's told her coworker that becoming a Christian means you must stop caring about the people you currently care about. Is it any wonder that she was seen as offensive and hostile?
We also don't really know what they said, Christians like Ms. Rogers are perpetual victims and know that they probably won't win in court so they want to win in the court of public opinion. The fact that she immediately went to First Liberty, Fox and NewsMax tells you all you need to know.
“I shared my own testimony with her. I shared how God had saved me and changed my life, and that it is God who changes your heart when you become saved,” she Christ-splained to her colleague."
The evangelicals are the first people to claim they’re being persecuted any time they are being prevented from forcing their views on others. I don’t know the particulars of this case, but it seems obvious she should have been aware of some boundaries. Over my more than forty years in the workplace, I had numerous people try to share their religion with me. To an individual, they never seemed to have any understanding they might be doing something inappropriate for the workplace. They are always the victims. That shared persecution complex is one of the things organized religion uses to survive.
This is another example of jesusfuckers walking into a space and thinking they (Christians) own it. That they (they alone) can dictate what happens in that how that space is used, and who can be in the space. When they (Christians) are told that they don’t own the space, they scream persecution and I am being silenced. It is another example of Christians NOT MINDING THEIR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS, yet the Christians keep telling atheists to mind their business.
Here is a clue jesusfuckers: ATHEISTS DO NOT GO AROUND TRYING TO CONVINCE OTHER PEOPLE TO BECOME ATHEISTS!
I’ve shared this before so apologies. I had a colleague who was Hindu. We had a very friendly, joking around relationship. She was the first (and only) Hindu I’ve ever had more than a passing acquaintanceship with. One day she and I were alone in the break room. I asked her for permission to ask her about Hinduism. She became visibly tense and uncomfortable. I quickly assured her that I had no interest in trying to change her religion. Told her I’m atheist and married to a Jew. I asked if other people had tried to convert her and she said yes. I told her I didn’t know much about Hinduism and I hoped she could help educate me. She agreed as long as we were the only people in the room. As time went on she started asking me about Christianity and Judaism and I did my best to explain the variations of those religions.
And we laughed about the fundie Christians. Her version of Hinduism was, in short, almost anything goes.
Several years ago, I found one employee literally preaching in the barn. When I asked him to come to the office to talk about it, he got incensed and told me the "word of God" was more important than getting his tasks done. So I gave him a warning, sent him off back to work and then started documenting. Within a month, I fired him for poor work performance.
THEN I had people coming to me talking about the shit he said to them. I should have gotten rid of him sooner.
Once again, these brainwashed Christians can’t understand that when they proclaim their silly beliefs, it might make others uncomfortable.
They claim they’re just doing the “Lords work” and have been convinced they have right on their side.
They don’t.
They apparently they will never understand that they still have their right to freedom of religion, and that the rest of us have an equal right to be free FROM religion.
What needs to be uncovered here would be, to quote Paul Harvey, the rest of the story. We clearly need to hear from those employees who interacted with Paige and what they took away from those conversations. Thus far, all we are getting is Paige's skewed view of these interactions, and that is nowhere near sufficient.
Joe Michael Straczynski once said that understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth. Let's at least get the first two clear, please.
“They talked about college, which led to a conversation about Boyce, which led to a conversation about her fundamentalist Christian beliefs.”
So, it’s possible that she brought up her college in order to direct the conversation to her beliefs. I know that I tend to direct conversations towards myself, I am working on that but it is a difficult journey, and I know that there are others who often do this as well. For the evangelical type sects, they are trained to do this at all times, direct conversations towards their relationship with God and how (how did she put it?) she was saved. It’s like talking to a friend who recently bought into an MLM, every complaint can be turned into a commercial. “Oh, I didn’t get to sleep until late last night, I’m so tired.” “Well, it sounds like you don’t get enough remitolinoids in your diet, you should try these BigMoney supplements I discovered, I am never tired anymore and it’s because of these wonderful supplements.” And then, when all their friends are pulling away, complaining about the pyramid scheme, the MLM friend goes on a rant claiming it’s not a scheme it’s a way of life, and these supplements really work and blah blah blah. But instead of supplements it’s god. They don’t see how insufferable they are.
I am guessing that the footage of the conversations will bury her, but since she’s filed a claim, the business has to stay quiet for now. I’m not hopeful the EEOC will find in the business’ favor because there’s Heritage Foundation’s agenda of pushing Christianity on the country, which might overrule the agenda to allow businesses free rein in exploiting workers. Or, we might be surprised not surprised that they will find this as a way to empower businesses more and rule against her. I am not hopeful that actual justice will happen, and they side for truth, they just might make the right decision for the wrong reasons.
Years ago I use to get peppered with testimonies and questions asking where I went to church and the comments got more aggressive if I was honest saying I was an atheist so I stopped being honest and I played along. I found the name of a local church near where I lived and I would just give them the fake name. One employer had a strict no religion rule while on the clock and this woman in the cubicle next to mine had a large shrine to Jesus and she kept trying to convert me so I brought in some Humanist and atheist items for my desk and she complained to the boss about my religious items and how it mocked her. The boss told us we both violated the rule so she had to remove her shrine.... (LOL) my work was done.
Even when I was the most fundamentalist of fundamentalists, I DID NOT DISCUSS MY RELIGIOUS FAITH AT WORK. I was not being paid to preach. I was being paid to do my job and do my job in an environment with a diverse workforce. Personal life discussions were held on a surface level: TV shows, books, movies, talk about kids and spouses, weekend plans. Friendly, small talk.
Because we were there to work, not talk.
This is not that hard.
You are being paid money to do a list of tasks. Stick to that list of tasks, not preach or bring drama.
𝑆ℎ𝑒 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑐𝑙𝑎𝑖𝑚𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑐𝑟𝑖𝑚𝑖𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑔𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡 ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑜𝑓 ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑛 “𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑣𝑖𝑜𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑚𝑦 𝑓𝑖𝑟𝑠𝑡 𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑟𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡.”
Did Heine Bros fire her fir being a Christian? No. They fired her for using her Christianity to create a hostile work environment. Did they violate the First Amendment? Last I checked, a private business is not the government.
Any reasonable judge, after looking past her assertions to what actually happened, should toss this frivolous lawsuit.
That the 1A restricts government and only government is a fact I find myself repeating ad nauseum at Christian Post. Then I point out that wanting government to go after private employers about religion isn’t very conservative, is it? More like authoritarian.
I doubt the average Christian fascist actually knows the meaning of conservative, socialism, or any number of words the MAGAS toss around. Plus, the MAGAS won’t look up words in the dictionary because dictionaries and encyclopedias are books that are written by the devil ( yes, I had a Christian tell me that, I was awe struck at the statement).
I’ve had the Satan’s dictionary comment too. Specifically, the word and definition in question was “murder”. A key element of the def is that the killing is illegal. Hence, a legal abortion is not murder. “It is in Jesus’ dictionary. You’re using Satan’s dictionary.”
Naturally, I asked for a link to the Jesus dictionary. Crickets.
And here I thought a dictionaries and encyclopedias are just dictionaries and encyclopedias! How can people have a conversation or an important discussion if the Christians don’t understand what words really mean or the Christians have different definitions for words that don’t actually fit with what the words actually mean! (Sorry for the poor phrasing, hard to express it so it makes sense what I am trying to say).
If it wasn’t for hypocrisy, they wouldn’t have hippos at all!
I know exactly what you mean. “Bespoke” definitions are all the rage with fundamentalists, in my experience. Starting with “Christian”. Lots of bagpipes!
Dictionaries may be "written by the devil ," but I can't help but notice the Christians use the words in those dictionaries all the time.
Just what is up with that?
Due to the fact the Christians don’t actually know what the words actually mean, so when the Christians use a word (words) they have another definition in mind. That is my guess anyway!
I really should start documenting the personalized definitions I come across on CP. Right now I'm arguing that Messianic Jews are not actually Jewish in any religious sense. Culturally? I'll buy that. But we have a word in English for people who think Jesus is the Messiah and "Jew" ain't the word.
"MJs" are Christians who employ Jewish rituals in their practice of their Christian faith.
If you do that you could write a book called Christian dictionary: words that don’t mean what Christian think the words mean, or you could title as: Christianise to Actual English!
it's a mystery
My parents used a Christian contractor to build their home. (Deep south...whatcha gonna do?)
Once he saw a copy of Ambrose Bierce's "Devil's Dictionary", he refused to ever set foot inside again.
The contractor being paid for building the house....
If the contractor refused to do the work over such a stupid thing, I hope your parents got their money back?
I'm sorry for being vague, John. I can't imagine a "true Christian" walking away from money. By that point, most of the work was done and he didn't really have to be there at all. (It all felt a bit performative to me. Who knows? How does the song go, "Nobody knows, but Jesus."?)
There are some issues with this house, but my parents wouldn't ever have been likely to sue, and they're both gone now. (Besides, the family grew tobacco for some 150+ years, and some still do. Shame can be a powerful drug....)
"dictionaries and encyclopedias are books that are written by the devil"
Since when? Where in the world did they ever get such made up, preposterous nonsense about dictionaries and encyclopedias being of the Devil from? All while looking up Google which is an online dictionary itself?
Since never, but that was the answer I got when I told a Christian to look up what socialism actually means, instead going on about how socialists that supported Hitler!
The Christian must have heard about Bierce’s The Devil’s Dictionary?
I'm less than certain that they have. I have a dead tree copy for sure.
And of course, they push back with "Christian Nation" nonsense.
You got it. It is utterly predictable.
I'm so tired of people bringing up 1A on all sides of the spectrum, but especially right wing people because they claim it as part of their personality... 1A protects you from the government, not friends, family or your employer.
Just recently someone was arrested for standing on a public sidewalk and shouting, without amplification, at the church in St. Paul where a minister is also an ICE employee. The church Don Lemon was at but this was a separate incident. Charges were dismissed by a judge almost immediately.
CP commenter invoked 1A. I hastened to point out that government was not restricting the church in any way at all but arresting someone engaging in free speech on a public sidewalk might well be a violation of 1A. No response.
And go after First Liberty for filing it.
𝑇ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑠𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑑 𝑐𝑜-𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑘𝑒𝑟 𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑙𝑦 𝑏𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ𝑡 𝑢𝑝 ℎ𝑜𝑤 𝑠ℎ𝑒’𝑠 𝑖𝑛 𝑎 𝑝𝑜𝑙𝑦𝑎𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠ℎ𝑖𝑝 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑖𝑓 𝑏𝑒𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛 𝑚𝑒𝑎𝑛𝑡 “𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑡𝑜𝑝 𝑙𝑜𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑛𝑒𝑟𝑠.” 𝑅𝑜𝑔𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑 𝑦𝑒𝑠.
There is no hate like Christian love. To tell her coworker not that she had to stop intimate relations with her partners, but that she had to 𝘴𝘵𝘰𝘱 𝘭𝘰𝘷𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 if she became a Christian is downright cruel. Basically, Ms Roger's told her coworker that becoming a Christian means you must stop caring about the people you currently care about. Is it any wonder that she was seen as offensive and hostile?
We also don't really know what they said, Christians like Ms. Rogers are perpetual victims and know that they probably won't win in court so they want to win in the court of public opinion. The fact that she immediately went to First Liberty, Fox and NewsMax tells you all you need to know.
“I shared my own testimony with her. I shared how God had saved me and changed my life, and that it is God who changes your heart when you become saved,” she Christ-splained to her colleague."
AKA, Proselytizing at work.
It seems to me she just admitted that, by admitting that.
And not just a little bit either.
The evangelicals are the first people to claim they’re being persecuted any time they are being prevented from forcing their views on others. I don’t know the particulars of this case, but it seems obvious she should have been aware of some boundaries. Over my more than forty years in the workplace, I had numerous people try to share their religion with me. To an individual, they never seemed to have any understanding they might be doing something inappropriate for the workplace. They are always the victims. That shared persecution complex is one of the things organized religion uses to survive.
This is another example of jesusfuckers walking into a space and thinking they (Christians) own it. That they (they alone) can dictate what happens in that how that space is used, and who can be in the space. When they (Christians) are told that they don’t own the space, they scream persecution and I am being silenced. It is another example of Christians NOT MINDING THEIR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS, yet the Christians keep telling atheists to mind their business.
Here is a clue jesusfuckers: ATHEISTS DO NOT GO AROUND TRYING TO CONVINCE OTHER PEOPLE TO BECOME ATHEISTS!
Good thing they stopped her before she got into latte art centering on Jesus.
"Excuse me, Barista but there are stigmata in my latte."
"This latte is is too hot! Hellish! And who put the crown of thorns in it?!"
"A cup of Blessed coffee please...."
I’ve shared this before so apologies. I had a colleague who was Hindu. We had a very friendly, joking around relationship. She was the first (and only) Hindu I’ve ever had more than a passing acquaintanceship with. One day she and I were alone in the break room. I asked her for permission to ask her about Hinduism. She became visibly tense and uncomfortable. I quickly assured her that I had no interest in trying to change her religion. Told her I’m atheist and married to a Jew. I asked if other people had tried to convert her and she said yes. I told her I didn’t know much about Hinduism and I hoped she could help educate me. She agreed as long as we were the only people in the room. As time went on she started asking me about Christianity and Judaism and I did my best to explain the variations of those religions.
And we laughed about the fundie Christians. Her version of Hinduism was, in short, almost anything goes.
Several years ago, I found one employee literally preaching in the barn. When I asked him to come to the office to talk about it, he got incensed and told me the "word of God" was more important than getting his tasks done. So I gave him a warning, sent him off back to work and then started documenting. Within a month, I fired him for poor work performance.
THEN I had people coming to me talking about the shit he said to them. I should have gotten rid of him sooner.
Once again, these brainwashed Christians can’t understand that when they proclaim their silly beliefs, it might make others uncomfortable.
They claim they’re just doing the “Lords work” and have been convinced they have right on their side.
They don’t.
They apparently they will never understand that they still have their right to freedom of religion, and that the rest of us have an equal right to be free FROM religion.
To Paige Rogers...
Please go to the gospels and point to scripture where Jesus says one word about homosexuals. We'll wait.
Meanwhile, Jesus DOES condemn religious hypocrites and people who call themselves his followers not doing what he tells them.
And once again "I'M BEING SILENCED!" is heard from Maine to Hawai'i.
https://amptoons.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/silenced.png
What needs to be uncovered here would be, to quote Paul Harvey, the rest of the story. We clearly need to hear from those employees who interacted with Paige and what they took away from those conversations. Thus far, all we are getting is Paige's skewed view of these interactions, and that is nowhere near sufficient.
Joe Michael Straczynski once said that understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth. Let's at least get the first two clear, please.
“They talked about college, which led to a conversation about Boyce, which led to a conversation about her fundamentalist Christian beliefs.”
So, it’s possible that she brought up her college in order to direct the conversation to her beliefs. I know that I tend to direct conversations towards myself, I am working on that but it is a difficult journey, and I know that there are others who often do this as well. For the evangelical type sects, they are trained to do this at all times, direct conversations towards their relationship with God and how (how did she put it?) she was saved. It’s like talking to a friend who recently bought into an MLM, every complaint can be turned into a commercial. “Oh, I didn’t get to sleep until late last night, I’m so tired.” “Well, it sounds like you don’t get enough remitolinoids in your diet, you should try these BigMoney supplements I discovered, I am never tired anymore and it’s because of these wonderful supplements.” And then, when all their friends are pulling away, complaining about the pyramid scheme, the MLM friend goes on a rant claiming it’s not a scheme it’s a way of life, and these supplements really work and blah blah blah. But instead of supplements it’s god. They don’t see how insufferable they are.
I am guessing that the footage of the conversations will bury her, but since she’s filed a claim, the business has to stay quiet for now. I’m not hopeful the EEOC will find in the business’ favor because there’s Heritage Foundation’s agenda of pushing Christianity on the country, which might overrule the agenda to allow businesses free rein in exploiting workers. Or, we might be surprised not surprised that they will find this as a way to empower businesses more and rule against her. I am not hopeful that actual justice will happen, and they side for truth, they just might make the right decision for the wrong reasons.
Years ago I use to get peppered with testimonies and questions asking where I went to church and the comments got more aggressive if I was honest saying I was an atheist so I stopped being honest and I played along. I found the name of a local church near where I lived and I would just give them the fake name. One employer had a strict no religion rule while on the clock and this woman in the cubicle next to mine had a large shrine to Jesus and she kept trying to convert me so I brought in some Humanist and atheist items for my desk and she complained to the boss about my religious items and how it mocked her. The boss told us we both violated the rule so she had to remove her shrine.... (LOL) my work was done.
If she were Muslim or atheist, the far-right media would certainly have attacked her instead of defending her.
Even when I was the most fundamentalist of fundamentalists, I DID NOT DISCUSS MY RELIGIOUS FAITH AT WORK. I was not being paid to preach. I was being paid to do my job and do my job in an environment with a diverse workforce. Personal life discussions were held on a surface level: TV shows, books, movies, talk about kids and spouses, weekend plans. Friendly, small talk.
Because we were there to work, not talk.
This is not that hard.
You are being paid money to do a list of tasks. Stick to that list of tasks, not preach or bring drama.