If we can nail down the sherbet pervert on all of his treason, we can just vacate all his appointments, including the three SCROTUS injustices. But, like you said we need a huge swing in the Senate. Long shot, indeed.
Be it religion or anything else, I don't know how you can present a matter as truth to children when there isn't a shred of independent corroboration for any part of it. Almost no one in the Bible, including Jesus himself, can be conclusively demonstrated to have ever existed. The Bible is a very strange way for a divine being who supposedly willed the universe into existence to transmit the most important message imaginable.
I suspect someone had to brave enough to challenge the stranglehold the theocrats had. Risking shunning in an indoctrinated populace, and possible violence from fanatics.
Well, God IS omniscient and omnipotent after all, so, yeah, it makes sense that his existence must be taught and all communication must occur through one way prayer with vague, sporadic signs he's listening.
Especially since as is the case with so many authors, the contradictions are astounding. And don't get me started on how the OT needs to be divorced from the NT, that whole mess never should have been put together.
What did the curiculum tell the schoolchildren about the role of the pope?
a - the pope represents god on earth and is infailible.
b - the pope is not even a real christian.
c - a and b are both true
d - a and b are both false
every answer is a heresy for at least one group and history tells us what a little disagreement between catholics and protestants can cause in northern ireland
Of the 2 great evil, corrupt, greedy, misogynistic, authoritarian, dehumanizing organizations that have spread their tentacles from Italy over the rest of civilization, why does only the LESS pernicious one, the Mafia, have the bad reputation?
The goddamm fucking brain dead, inbred, jessusfucking cocksucher of donkey’s dead dick Leo fuckwit should go and shove a Ebola covered cactus up his and jeezyboys scrawny bone ass while sucking off a bomb! He has no right to dictate to others about morality, considering the scandals that are in the church.
“When you’re used to privilege, neutrality is seen as oppression”
Well ain’t that what we are living through right now. It’s pathetic.
Someone pointed out Northern Ireland is part of the UK and now this story makes even more sense.
I’m in complete admiration of Ireland’s recent victories from seeking justice for the victims of the “laundries” to the election of the new president, Catherine Connolly. Why can’t that be us 😞
In the 2011 census, 84.7% of the population identified as Catholic. In 2016 (3 years after the report on the laundries had been published) it was 78.3%, and in the 2022 census it was 68.8%.
As ever, this is people who i̲d̲e̲n̲t̲i̲f̲y̲ as Catholic, not those who attend Mass or take the sacrament. Getting up-to-date figures is difficult, the best I can find is a weekly attendance of 32% in 2018.
Northern Ireland, where the case under discussion in OP occurred, and the Republic of Ireland (Eire), where the two issues, the Magdalene laundries and the death of Savita Halapanavar happened, are two different countries under two different sets of laws and governments.
Once the RCC started losing it's hold over the secular authorities in Eire, the wheels started coming off the wagon on issues of female bodily autonomy, same-sex marriage, LGBTQ+ rights, contraception, etc.
Northern Ireland was a lot slower on those issues, except contraception, because it was buybull bashing Protestants running the show.
For example:-
The law changed in 2018. In the Republic of Ireland, abortion is legal up to 12 weeks of pregnancy and in specific exceptional circumstances, such as when the pregnant person's life or health is at risk, or in cases of a fatal fetal abnormality. To access an abortion, a person must attend a pre-abortion consultation, have a doctor certify the pregnancy is within the first 12 weeks, and then wait at least 3 days after certification before the procedure, according to Citizens Information. Abortion services are free within the public health system.
A few years later. Abortion is legal in Northern Ireland for any reason up to 12 weeks of pregnancy. After 12 weeks, abortion is permitted in specific circumstances, such as when there is a risk to the pregnant person's physical or mental health or the health of existing children, up to 24 weeks. Additionally, it is available for cases of fatal fetal abnormality or severe fetal impairment at any stage.
But there are still problems with access in Northern Ireland, that those in the Republic of Ireland, don't have to endure. And it is because of backward religidiots of the Protestant kind.
It’s heartbreaking, but good to remember to lay full blame on antiabortion laws and not doctors. Texas has some of the strictest there including “aiding and abetting” meaning even the mention of the possibility of an abortion to a patient can get you arrested.
As a retired surgical assistant, who had to go to school for years to learn medical terminology, anatomy and physiology, and scientific method, before I was ever even allowed in an operating room, I am appalled at the medically ignorant making such ridiculous laws based on their superstitions, that deny standard of care and invite malpractice suits. Where are the suits from the AMA?
Yet, the élite members of society will be able to get greater medical care due to their wealth and influence. Those of the elite will get abortions and will be able to JUSTIFY their abortion, for rules are for others, and not me!
Propublica is just about our only truth telling reporting these days. And Jessica Valenti's Abortion Substack. If it weren't for her work I wouldn't know half of what is going on.
I posted this the other day (first paragraph is from Abortion Every Day):
“After all, maternal mortality has skyrocketed in anti-abortion states—especially for Black women like Walker. In Texas, maternal deaths have risen by 56% since the state banned abortion”
New study finds maternal mortality in Texas rose faster than national rate:
But when we looked at this data from the Gender Equity Policy Institute, it was striking that of that 56% rise in the state of Texas, there was a 38% rise among Black women in the state. There was a 30% rise in maternal deaths among Hispanic women in Texas. Regarding Asian-American women, the numbers were too small and were not included. But what was so striking was a 95% rise among white women in Texas.
Texas officials were warned what would happen with the extremely restrictive bans they insisted on passing, and they did it anyway. OB/GYNs told them that hey, this is going to be a problem, it will get women killed, and these bans aren't a good idea; they did it anyway. Now women are dying, and Texas seems to think that's how it should be.
This will happen again. Many, many, many times. These bans rarely have the carve-outs for medical needs so many people seem to think they do, and even when they do, medical staff rightly fear prosecution for ending the pregnancy. Texas will be a killing field for mothers, and my only advice is to either not get pregnant, or to get out of Texas ASAP if you are.
Absolutely. They had 50 years to plan for this and everything was carefully strategized over. They knew people would die and they don’t care. So-called “exceptions” are deceiving as no one will ever qualify for them. They are meant to soften public image of otherwise extremely cruel and dehumanizing laws. I’m sure many doctors in TX and other states who aren’t willing to practice under these laws have already moved.
I had severe preeclampsia. It can kill or maim so quickly. Doctors are well trained in treatment modalities, usually delivery. They unzipped me and delivered in under 8 minutes, because it kills so fast.There's no excuse for her not receiving treatment, it doesn't matter what the law says.
The doctors committed crimes.
This shit is beyond my comprehension. I do believe in evil. These awful people are proving it's existence.
What's that old saw? If you teach kids about ONE religion, you INDOCTRINATE them. If you teach kids about ALL religions, you INOCULATE them.
Whether or not the school kids of Ireland get into comparative religion or an overview of the world's religions or not, the rejection of THIS particular bill is nothing but healthy. What said bill amounted to was yet another attempt to superimpose ONE belief where it clearly was not welcome.
We could stand to see a LOT more of that in the US, particularly considering that now, my home state of Ohio wants to put up 10C displays in classrooms!
In primary school, ages 5-10 years old, we even broke down into our individual denominations and went to different classrooms where a local holy roller would come in to teach the mindwankery. My own being the Church of Ireland, who was a nasty auld bugger.
Secondary School, ages 11- 16 or 18 if staying on to study A Level, was carried out by a teacher. Though in the RCC domain, priests and nuns doubled as teachers.
Fortunately, by the time it was time for my kids to go to school, there were integrated institutions for those that want them.
Integrated education in Northern Ireland brings children from diverse religious, cultural, and socio-economic backgrounds together in a single school. It is driven by parents and is built on the principles of respect, diversity, and understanding, with the goal of promoting peace and reconciliation. The first integrated school was founded in 1981, and today there are 70 grant-aided integrated schools across the province.
All that being said, this watershed moment has been a long time coming. It won't completely change the landscape, but it will make a big difference.
One of the big causes for that decline? Clergy and laity behaving badly and being part of people's daily news consumption. IOW, self-inflicted gunshot wounds. They're doing it to themselves.
I'm still surprised that it's so high. I know 4 people who consider themselves xitians. Three of them never read the book and never attend church. The other attends church for the conversation at lunch.
Makes me wonder if a lot of those identifying as xitian do it out of habit.
“The language used—particularly the inflammatory term ‘indoctrination’ is an affront not only to teachers and parents but to the Christian foundations upon which our education system has long rested.”
Well, if you don’t like the word indoctrination, then stop indoctrinating children. Just a cursory look at the facts here shows the textbook definition of indoctrination. Just because someone can opt their children out, doesn’t mean you aren’t indoctrinating the children. The kids don’t have the tools necessary to even see the curriculum for what it is, to question what you tell them, or even realize that they should talk about it to their parents.
Boo hoo, don’t want to be called out for indoctrination, don’t do indoctrination.
What a lovely thing to greet me first thing in the morning. I’m pretty sure I have the following right. But it’s early, coffee, and I haven’t studied this for a while.
First: “ the Catholic Church, the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian Church and the Methodist Church.” For those who don’t know, the Catholic Church is the Catholic Church, the church of Ireland is actually the church of England, although officially they are not,, the Presbyterian Church is more likely the Scottish church, and the Methodist Church should probably stay the Methodists.”
Another way to put it: the Catholic Church used to run Ireland, the church of Ireland was the church of England until they disestablished it, but they remain more-or-less Anglican, the Presbyterian Church represents the Scottish people who came over to Ireland in order to run things, and Represents the economic differences disguised as religion that have plagued Ireland for centuries, and the Methodists have some rip-roaring hymnody.
But then, the Supreme Court said, “ the core syllabus encourages pupils faithfully to accept the existence of the Christian God, to accept that good things come from the Christian God, that the Christian God can help in times of adversity and that morality is based upon, and derived from, the existence of the Christian God.’
To which I answer: 1) which Christian God; 2) what good things are they talking about that came from the Christian God because the protestants and the Catholics have been busy killing each other forever, 3) including times as adversity, such as 200 years of the troubles— killing each other, bombs, terrorism— and 4) morality is based upon and derive from the existence of the Christian God. See number two and three. See the kiddy diddling Irish priests. See dick and jane run from the priest.
Run, dick and jane, run!
In short, none of the justifications for the existence of religious indoctrination in public schools bears the slightest resemblance to reality. But not to worry, because a particular member of Parliament says: “ That word has been weaponised to belittle the sincere Christian ethos that shaped our society, our laws and our moral compass.”
Shall we just go back to those 200 years of religious, economic, and political oppression, because that’s the sincere Christian ethos he’s talking about.
And what about the Irish gods? The denizens of Tir n’an Og still seem to hold a place in the hearts of Irish country folk, at least in the republic. It’s not unusual to see a wee house modeled on the main house in many people’s backyards. That’s for the leprechauns to live in. And the Irish gods don’t pretend to be of any use to anything. They are merely entertaining.
I want The Irish gods. The Christian gods had their chance, and they failed.
I wish I liked Guinness. I do like the flavor, but it’s always served warm and flat. When I first went to Ireland, I had it a couple of times, but settled on another dark beer, Murphy’s. Served ice cold and not flat.
Me too. First time was in Ireland, march 17th. app 2017. We was not prepaired for St Patrics day, but it was really fun. Next time was in 2021 (or was it 2020?) when we went to watch Mark Allen win the snooker tournament Nothern Ireland Open.
One memorable time was in a hole-in-a-wall pub in Derry. From the first sip, I knew I was drinking something special. A shame Guinness doesn't travel well.
My problem with self-driving cars is that the software used to control them can't just be foolproof but damn-foolproof. The difference in code overhead is massive.
It’s funny how all these religious folks like to say things like, “this is the tradition of our country” or that it’s their morals or what have you, but if you look further than the very surface of the history you will see that the tradition and morals of Christianity are bloody oppression. The people of Ireland had a religious tradition that was co-opted into Christianity and when that didn’t work, Christianity murdered anyone who didn’t comply. Is this the tradition you want to continue on these children?
God is love at the point of the sword. But that never actually engenders love, only fear.
God's "morals" include murdering me for being Gay. God's "morals" include hating others for being sinners. God's "morals" include enslaving others for fun and profit. nI have never sent plagues or floods, yet I am the hell-bound sinner.
Those dumb Polack jokes are probably based on some of my relatives. Anecdotal evidence: I was riding in the car with my father one day when I was a child. I looked out the window and saw the moon visible in the daytime sky. I told my father who replied, "You can't see the moon during the day."
Europe has suffered through their religious wars, for Millennia, and realize the folly of organized religion. We bypassed that because most of our founders knew their history, and knew allowing religion in the gov't was a disaster. So we were begun as a secular nation. The theocrats have been trying to inflict their corrupted power on us ever since.
This is the first time I've seen the term non-denominational interpreted as: of the Christian denominations, don't emphasize one over the others. Interesting.
Good! Now if only OUR Supremes could get with the program.
(I know. Wishful thinking)
We need to replace at least three of them to get that result. And of the six candidates, only one or two are old enough to potentially vacate.
I know it's a long shot, but if we can get enough of a swing in the Senate, I think it's time for a few judicial impeachments!
I'm all in favor of it, but we need 20 more rethug senators to be replaced to pull an impeachment off.
That’s a VERY long shot.
Sad to say but true. 😝
If we can nail down the sherbet pervert on all of his treason, we can just vacate all his appointments, including the three SCROTUS injustices. But, like you said we need a huge swing in the Senate. Long shot, indeed.
We have to have the presidency as well, or the repub theocrats will just put in fresh Liberty U graduates.
Be it religion or anything else, I don't know how you can present a matter as truth to children when there isn't a shred of independent corroboration for any part of it. Almost no one in the Bible, including Jesus himself, can be conclusively demonstrated to have ever existed. The Bible is a very strange way for a divine being who supposedly willed the universe into existence to transmit the most important message imaginable.
It 𝘤𝘢𝘯 be presented, but it is tantamount to lying.
And why is it being so profoundly reinterpreted now? (This has happened a lot over the years, by the way.)
I suspect someone had to brave enough to challenge the stranglehold the theocrats had. Risking shunning in an indoctrinated populace, and possible violence from fanatics.
Well, God IS omniscient and omnipotent after all, so, yeah, it makes sense that his existence must be taught and all communication must occur through one way prayer with vague, sporadic signs he's listening.
You misspelled impotent.
omniimpotent? God's also old and just has a hard on for MAGA.
Especially since as is the case with so many authors, the contradictions are astounding. And don't get me started on how the OT needs to be divorced from the NT, that whole mess never should have been put together.
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑛𝑔𝑢𝑎𝑔𝑒 𝑢𝑠𝑒𝑑—𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑢𝑙𝑎𝑟𝑙𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑖𝑛𝑓𝑙𝑎𝑚𝑚𝑎𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑦 𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑚 ‘𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑜𝑐𝑡𝑟𝑖𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛’ 𝑖𝑠 𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑓𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑛𝑡 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑜𝑛𝑙𝑦 𝑡𝑜 𝑡𝑒𝑎𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑠 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑡𝑜 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛 𝑓𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑢𝑝𝑜𝑛 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑐ℎ 𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑒𝑑𝑢𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑠𝑦𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑚 ℎ𝑎𝑠 𝑙𝑜𝑛𝑔 𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑑.
First objecting to the use of the word "indoctrination" then immediately demonstrating why it is indoctrination.
TUV are Arch-conservatives, as I understand it. Can’t say I am shocked.
All the unionist parties here are conservatives.
The DUP ranks of politicians, for instance, are littered with Young Earth Creationists. Members of the Caleb Foundation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caleb_Foundation
I didn’t like to generalise, but i also can’t say that I am surprised. Worrying stuff when people like that get any power!
Bingo!
The child in the lawsuit was in the school from ages 4-7. “Indoctrination” is the only term applicable.
What did the curiculum tell the schoolchildren about the role of the pope?
a - the pope represents god on earth and is infailible.
b - the pope is not even a real christian.
c - a and b are both true
d - a and b are both false
every answer is a heresy for at least one group and history tells us what a little disagreement between catholics and protestants can cause in northern ireland
Please note: 1) the list of 4 churches involved (only 1 was RCC)
2) the history of Northern Ireland and The Troubles (generally termed as Catholics (Republicans) vs Protestants (Unionists))
No curriculum would DARE mention anything as controversial as the Pope!
I didn't know the pope was inflatable.
Word on the street is that Bill Donahue has an inflatable pope doll.
Only one ?
I'm sure of it, he is a child rape apologist, after all.
The pope is the leader of the world's oldest, largest, lavishly finance and best defended pedophile ring the world has ever known.
Of the 2 great evil, corrupt, greedy, misogynistic, authoritarian, dehumanizing organizations that have spread their tentacles from Italy over the rest of civilization, why does only the LESS pernicious one, the Mafia, have the bad reputation?
You left out possibility number five. A and B are both true and both false because we’re talking about religion.
Gotcha atheist.!
When there was antipoops, which was the one infaillible ?
Antipoops? You mean like an enema?
More likely, a very large cork.
T'es pas loin. Ils ont fait chier beaucoup de monde au cours des siècles.
Yes! That one!
e - The Poop has never gotten laid and is therefore most qualified to decide about everyone else's sexual behaviors
Some popes apparently did have adult fun time, though. Wikipedia's got a whole list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes
The goddamm fucking brain dead, inbred, jessusfucking cocksucher of donkey’s dead dick Leo fuckwit should go and shove a Ebola covered cactus up his and jeezyboys scrawny bone ass while sucking off a bomb! He has no right to dictate to others about morality, considering the scandals that are in the church.
“When you’re used to privilege, neutrality is seen as oppression”
Well ain’t that what we are living through right now. It’s pathetic.
Someone pointed out Northern Ireland is part of the UK and now this story makes even more sense.
I’m in complete admiration of Ireland’s recent victories from seeking justice for the victims of the “laundries” to the election of the new president, Catherine Connolly. Why can’t that be us 😞
RIP Sinead. We need you.
Ireland started to turn after the murder of Savita Halapanavar.
It was the Magdalene Laundries that started the revulsion - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_laundries_in_Ireland
In the 2011 census, 84.7% of the population identified as Catholic. In 2016 (3 years after the report on the laundries had been published) it was 78.3%, and in the 2022 census it was 68.8%.
As ever, this is people who i̲d̲e̲n̲t̲i̲f̲y̲ as Catholic, not those who attend Mass or take the sacrament. Getting up-to-date figures is difficult, the best I can find is a weekly attendance of 32% in 2018.
Savita Halapanavar died in 2012
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar
I wouldn't deny that this was a major contribution.
The date I gave was that of the official report, there was media coverage earlier than this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_laundries_in_Ireland
Could we both be right? I think the answer is probably "yes".
Northern Ireland, where the case under discussion in OP occurred, and the Republic of Ireland (Eire), where the two issues, the Magdalene laundries and the death of Savita Halapanavar happened, are two different countries under two different sets of laws and governments.
Once the RCC started losing it's hold over the secular authorities in Eire, the wheels started coming off the wagon on issues of female bodily autonomy, same-sex marriage, LGBTQ+ rights, contraception, etc.
Northern Ireland was a lot slower on those issues, except contraception, because it was buybull bashing Protestants running the show.
For example:-
The law changed in 2018. In the Republic of Ireland, abortion is legal up to 12 weeks of pregnancy and in specific exceptional circumstances, such as when the pregnant person's life or health is at risk, or in cases of a fatal fetal abnormality. To access an abortion, a person must attend a pre-abortion consultation, have a doctor certify the pregnancy is within the first 12 weeks, and then wait at least 3 days after certification before the procedure, according to Citizens Information. Abortion services are free within the public health system.
A few years later. Abortion is legal in Northern Ireland for any reason up to 12 weeks of pregnancy. After 12 weeks, abortion is permitted in specific circumstances, such as when there is a risk to the pregnant person's physical or mental health or the health of existing children, up to 24 weeks. Additionally, it is available for cases of fatal fetal abnormality or severe fetal impairment at any stage.
But there are still problems with access in Northern Ireland, that those in the Republic of Ireland, don't have to endure. And it is because of backward religidiots of the Protestant kind.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/barriers-abortion-access-northern-ireland-0
Just sayin'.
A woman in Texas (a mother) just died recently because she couldn’t get a life-saving abortion. Quite little reporting or outrage here, sadly.
https://www.propublica.org/article/texas-abortion-ban-tierra-walker-preeclampsia
Someone posted it the other day. 90 doctors, several hospitals and “don’t worry madam, all is fine”. They are all murderers.
It’s heartbreaking, but good to remember to lay full blame on antiabortion laws and not doctors. Texas has some of the strictest there including “aiding and abetting” meaning even the mention of the possibility of an abortion to a patient can get you arrested.
As a retired surgical assistant, who had to go to school for years to learn medical terminology, anatomy and physiology, and scientific method, before I was ever even allowed in an operating room, I am appalled at the medically ignorant making such ridiculous laws based on their superstitions, that deny standard of care and invite malpractice suits. Where are the suits from the AMA?
Yet, the élite members of society will be able to get greater medical care due to their wealth and influence. Those of the elite will get abortions and will be able to JUSTIFY their abortion, for rules are for others, and not me!
They were by texas law, not even allowed to tell her that abortion was an option.
Propublica is just about our only truth telling reporting these days. And Jessica Valenti's Abortion Substack. If it weren't for her work I wouldn't know half of what is going on.
It’s frightening. Are we in our version of North Korea yet? Getting there. Soon we will be whispering in fields.
I posted this the other day (first paragraph is from Abortion Every Day):
“After all, maternal mortality has skyrocketed in anti-abortion states—especially for Black women like Walker. In Texas, maternal deaths have risen by 56% since the state banned abortion”
New study finds maternal mortality in Texas rose faster than national rate:
But when we looked at this data from the Gender Equity Policy Institute, it was striking that of that 56% rise in the state of Texas, there was a 38% rise among Black women in the state. There was a 30% rise in maternal deaths among Hispanic women in Texas. Regarding Asian-American women, the numbers were too small and were not included. But what was so striking was a 95% rise among white women in Texas.
https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/texas-maternal-mortality-rate-rises-abortion-ban/
Sickening, but not surprising 💔
God needed her more than her famioy did? Just what need would this all-perfect, all knowing, god have for a couple of corpses?
We saw this coming.
Texas officials were warned what would happen with the extremely restrictive bans they insisted on passing, and they did it anyway. OB/GYNs told them that hey, this is going to be a problem, it will get women killed, and these bans aren't a good idea; they did it anyway. Now women are dying, and Texas seems to think that's how it should be.
This will happen again. Many, many, many times. These bans rarely have the carve-outs for medical needs so many people seem to think they do, and even when they do, medical staff rightly fear prosecution for ending the pregnancy. Texas will be a killing field for mothers, and my only advice is to either not get pregnant, or to get out of Texas ASAP if you are.
Absolutely. They had 50 years to plan for this and everything was carefully strategized over. They knew people would die and they don’t care. So-called “exceptions” are deceiving as no one will ever qualify for them. They are meant to soften public image of otherwise extremely cruel and dehumanizing laws. I’m sure many doctors in TX and other states who aren’t willing to practice under these laws have already moved.
I had severe preeclampsia. It can kill or maim so quickly. Doctors are well trained in treatment modalities, usually delivery. They unzipped me and delivered in under 8 minutes, because it kills so fast.There's no excuse for her not receiving treatment, it doesn't matter what the law says.
The doctors committed crimes.
This shit is beyond my comprehension. I do believe in evil. These awful people are proving it's existence.
Probably about the time our nutters started getting their way here.
🎯
Oh yes, we need her. (And why did my eyes get flooded with salt water now?)
"the sincere Christian ethos that shaped our society, our laws and our moral compass."
Let's review them : intolerance, misogyny, ignorance, racism. Y'a pas d'quoi être fier. Humanism should be the norm.
What's that old saw? If you teach kids about ONE religion, you INDOCTRINATE them. If you teach kids about ALL religions, you INOCULATE them.
Whether or not the school kids of Ireland get into comparative religion or an overview of the world's religions or not, the rejection of THIS particular bill is nothing but healthy. What said bill amounted to was yet another attempt to superimpose ONE belief where it clearly was not welcome.
We could stand to see a LOT more of that in the US, particularly considering that now, my home state of Ohio wants to put up 10C displays in classrooms!
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2025/11/ohio-gop-advance-public-school-religion-bills-democrats-call-it-overreach.html?e=ba6dd1160257a8e370771304a31266fd
In my day, the RE classes were not comparative.
In primary school, ages 5-10 years old, we even broke down into our individual denominations and went to different classrooms where a local holy roller would come in to teach the mindwankery. My own being the Church of Ireland, who was a nasty auld bugger.
Secondary School, ages 11- 16 or 18 if staying on to study A Level, was carried out by a teacher. Though in the RCC domain, priests and nuns doubled as teachers.
Fortunately, by the time it was time for my kids to go to school, there were integrated institutions for those that want them.
Integrated education in Northern Ireland brings children from diverse religious, cultural, and socio-economic backgrounds together in a single school. It is driven by parents and is built on the principles of respect, diversity, and understanding, with the goal of promoting peace and reconciliation. The first integrated school was founded in 1981, and today there are 70 grant-aided integrated schools across the province.
All that being said, this watershed moment has been a long time coming. It won't completely change the landscape, but it will make a big difference.
Thank you for the background for those us — especially me — who have no idea what RE in NI was like before.
"Democrats call it overreach" because it is.
You betcha!
Small niggle: its NORTHERN Ireland (a devolved part of the United Kingdom) - Ireland (Eire) is an entirely different country, with their own rules.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you.
Good news here but still not fast enough:
US Decline In Religion Among Biggest In World
https://www.newsweek.com/us-decline-in-religion-among-biggest-in-world-11047526
One of the big causes for that decline? Clergy and laity behaving badly and being part of people's daily news consumption. IOW, self-inflicted gunshot wounds. They're doing it to themselves.
That and their wholesale adoption of trumpian christofascism.
Indeed, even the hard of thinking are starting to catch on.
I'm still surprised that it's so high. I know 4 people who consider themselves xitians. Three of them never read the book and never attend church. The other attends church for the conversation at lunch.
Makes me wonder if a lot of those identifying as xitian do it out of habit.
Probably accurate. CINO.
More of this. More teaching of humanism makes much more sense.
“The language used—particularly the inflammatory term ‘indoctrination’ is an affront not only to teachers and parents but to the Christian foundations upon which our education system has long rested.”
Well, if you don’t like the word indoctrination, then stop indoctrinating children. Just a cursory look at the facts here shows the textbook definition of indoctrination. Just because someone can opt their children out, doesn’t mean you aren’t indoctrinating the children. The kids don’t have the tools necessary to even see the curriculum for what it is, to question what you tell them, or even realize that they should talk about it to their parents.
Boo hoo, don’t want to be called out for indoctrination, don’t do indoctrination.
Inculcation, anyone?
Precisely.
What a lovely thing to greet me first thing in the morning. I’m pretty sure I have the following right. But it’s early, coffee, and I haven’t studied this for a while.
First: “ the Catholic Church, the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian Church and the Methodist Church.” For those who don’t know, the Catholic Church is the Catholic Church, the church of Ireland is actually the church of England, although officially they are not,, the Presbyterian Church is more likely the Scottish church, and the Methodist Church should probably stay the Methodists.”
Another way to put it: the Catholic Church used to run Ireland, the church of Ireland was the church of England until they disestablished it, but they remain more-or-less Anglican, the Presbyterian Church represents the Scottish people who came over to Ireland in order to run things, and Represents the economic differences disguised as religion that have plagued Ireland for centuries, and the Methodists have some rip-roaring hymnody.
But then, the Supreme Court said, “ the core syllabus encourages pupils faithfully to accept the existence of the Christian God, to accept that good things come from the Christian God, that the Christian God can help in times of adversity and that morality is based upon, and derived from, the existence of the Christian God.’
To which I answer: 1) which Christian God; 2) what good things are they talking about that came from the Christian God because the protestants and the Catholics have been busy killing each other forever, 3) including times as adversity, such as 200 years of the troubles— killing each other, bombs, terrorism— and 4) morality is based upon and derive from the existence of the Christian God. See number two and three. See the kiddy diddling Irish priests. See dick and jane run from the priest.
Run, dick and jane, run!
In short, none of the justifications for the existence of religious indoctrination in public schools bears the slightest resemblance to reality. But not to worry, because a particular member of Parliament says: “ That word has been weaponised to belittle the sincere Christian ethos that shaped our society, our laws and our moral compass.”
Shall we just go back to those 200 years of religious, economic, and political oppression, because that’s the sincere Christian ethos he’s talking about.
And what about the Irish gods? The denizens of Tir n’an Og still seem to hold a place in the hearts of Irish country folk, at least in the republic. It’s not unusual to see a wee house modeled on the main house in many people’s backyards. That’s for the leprechauns to live in. And the Irish gods don’t pretend to be of any use to anything. They are merely entertaining.
I want The Irish gods. The Christian gods had their chance, and they failed.
All hail Guinness.
I wish I liked Guinness. I do like the flavor, but it’s always served warm and flat. When I first went to Ireland, I had it a couple of times, but settled on another dark beer, Murphy’s. Served ice cold and not flat.
I've never had warm Guinness. What's really good is a black and tan.
Buy Guinness Extra Stout and put it in your fridge. It has the carbonation you're accustomed to.
Thank you. As long as it doesn’t come in a can, I would be more than happy to try it. Canned beer tastes metallic to me
It comes in bottles. Guinness Draught is supposed to be creamy. I don't care for it either.
I never had Guinness but I don't remember DM ever complaining, and she loved her beers cold.
Alec?
I've been lucky enough to have Guinness in both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Oh, BER-ROTHER!!! Phenomenal stuff!
Me too. First time was in Ireland, march 17th. app 2017. We was not prepaired for St Patrics day, but it was really fun. Next time was in 2021 (or was it 2020?) when we went to watch Mark Allen win the snooker tournament Nothern Ireland Open.
One memorable time was in a hole-in-a-wall pub in Derry. From the first sip, I knew I was drinking something special. A shame Guinness doesn't travel well.
OT - Good point
https://featureassets.gocomics.com/assets/02482d409e3a013eb842005056a9545d
My problem with self-driving cars is that the software used to control them can't just be foolproof but damn-foolproof. The difference in code overhead is massive.
"the software used to control them can't just be foolproof "
The problem with trying to make anything foolproof is that the world keeps making better fools.
"Fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."
Ever so much this ^^^
People should be glad we don't have flying car traffic to worry about.
Thanks be to the ceiling I won't live that long.
It’s funny how all these religious folks like to say things like, “this is the tradition of our country” or that it’s their morals or what have you, but if you look further than the very surface of the history you will see that the tradition and morals of Christianity are bloody oppression. The people of Ireland had a religious tradition that was co-opted into Christianity and when that didn’t work, Christianity murdered anyone who didn’t comply. Is this the tradition you want to continue on these children?
God is love at the point of the sword. But that never actually engenders love, only fear.
God's "morals" include murdering me for being Gay. God's "morals" include hating others for being sinners. God's "morals" include enslaving others for fun and profit. nI have never sent plagues or floods, yet I am the hell-bound sinner.
Why, yes, it is what they would like to do, but they have learned not to be quite so obvious.
Once again, I'm jealous of Europe.
Poland and Malta are European too.
Those dumb Polack jokes are probably based on some of my relatives. Anecdotal evidence: I was riding in the car with my father one day when I was a child. I looked out the window and saw the moon visible in the daytime sky. I told my father who replied, "You can't see the moon during the day."
I have seen the moon in daytime every month.
Europe has suffered through their religious wars, for Millennia, and realize the folly of organized religion. We bypassed that because most of our founders knew their history, and knew allowing religion in the gov't was a disaster. So we were begun as a secular nation. The theocrats have been trying to inflict their corrupted power on us ever since.
This is the first time I've seen the term non-denominational interpreted as: of the Christian denominations, don't emphasize one over the others. Interesting.
Another bible lie.
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