I might have had more sympathy for them had they left Christianity behind after all the damage it and they did. But they're still part of the system that abuses women and girls. They've not truly liberated themselves. Had they done so, their message would've been far more powerful.
Especially tough if they have no friends in the 'outside' world, no support group. An excellent book on this subject is Women v. Religion, the Case Against Faith and --for Freedom ed by Karen L. Garst, PhD.
Baby steps. Their eyes have been opened to the very real harm they caused. There is still hope that they will break the shackles of their indoctrination completely. The path from indoctrinated robot to freely thinking human can be long and arduous.
I was a child. I trusted people. They were supposed to tell me the truth. They were supposed to have my best interests at heart.
They lied to me. They hid things from me. They told me THEIR version of the 'truth'. Never told me there were other versions.
And I acted accordingly. I tormented myself over 'sin'. I was afraid of Hell and God. I parroted what I had been taught telling others it was the Truth. I said and did hurtful things in the name of Love. Because hurting someone now seems a small thing to potentially saving them from an eternity of pain and suffering.
I never questioned. I never doubted. Until I did decades later. Decades that I wasted pursuing a career as a pastor. Decades I suffered from depression seeking a cure in being a better Christian.
I feel like I owe everyone I hurt an apology and amends even though some of them probably have forgotten about me entirely.
Now, when asked to speak about the Bible, I acknowledge that most of it is NOT black and white right off the bat and the very few parts that are black and white (like caring for the poor and welcoming refugees and strangers) are parts that white Evangelicals typically ignore and explain away. I acknowledge the misogyny born from a culture where women were property. I acknowledge racism when it appears (Ezra, Nehemiah). I acknowledge the expectation of slavery as an institution and how even Paul was a contradiction on the subject preaching of universal brotherhood while telling slave to submit and I explain the context of the Roman empire and how brutal they were on slave revolts and those encouraging them. How slavers had plenty of verses to support their ideas and how abolitionists were the "liberals" who were arguing about concepts and higher ideals.
The Bible was written by men (and possibly a couple of women) like us. Prone to the same prejudices, weaknesses, ignorance, blind spots, and hatreds. What a man takes away from his Bible speaks more about him than it does about the book itself. And too many men (and women) are looking for a moral authority to cover their own hatreds, prejudices, and evil.
There are too many Fred Phelps and not nearly enough Fred Rogers.
My impression is that the book the Botkin sisters wrote and the positions they held were, predictably, based in the idealistic dogma they were brought up with. The problem became when that idealism ran up against that persistent little concept known as REALITY. Dealing with REAL human beings, real men and women in real-world situations forced Anna and Elizabeth to reevaluate what they had written and what they were recommending to others. At least they had sufficient bravery to admit their error.
I've said it before: "When toxic ideology runs headlong into reality and human beings, it ain't the ideology that gets hurt." Herewith note Exhibit A.
If a woman chooses to be a doormat, not vote, and become what amounts to a piece of her husband's property, that's her choice. Albeit a very foolish one. She does not, under any circumstances, get to make that decision for anyone but herself.
More likely it's a choice that is either forced upon her or indoctrinated into her, before she has the intellect, the discrimination, and the independent agency to understand what is being foisted on her. The brand of Christianity that the Botkins grew up with reflects the same kind of patriarchy which the bible is lousy with.
It's just their good fortune that they finally recognized and rejected it.
Pre-stinking-cisely! Raise ANY child, male or female, to be themselves, to learn about themselves and grow into and discover themselves, with gentle nudges here and there, but nothing so drastic and pernicious as Christian dogma, and I think you get a far healthier child, youth, and adult in the final analysis.
My sister married at 33. She’d been a single woman, professional, put herself through grad school—even though my parents told her no man would want a used woman (she’d had an abortion at 19) with more education than he had. She’d been a member of NOW and Greenpeace. _Something happened_ when she met her to-be husband. She told me the right thing was to turn all her earnings (yes, she remained employed) to her husband and just get an allowance. Was it the ghostly remnants of my parents’ patriarchal idiocy coming home to roost? I’ve no idea. I stopped talking to her because suddenly it was all bible this and that.
I remember reading about the Botkin sisters’ book and thinking who the heck adheres to life advice from a couple of teen agers, but I answered my own question.
That makes me angry. I thought you were going to say that she met a wonderful man who supported her, then you went to the dark place. A pox on your parents for not being proud of what she achieved, instead comparing her to gum.
"She told me the right thing was to turn all her earnings (yes, she remained employed) to her husband and just get an allowance. "
Now where did she get that kind of patriarchal slop from (besides the Bible and one's interpretation of it)? It's HER money for hers to keep, not his! She doesn't need to fork over her money to him all the time so he can spend on booze and beer!
It seems she'd never wanted to give up Christian fundieism in the first place.
Legally under English common law (and thus much American law) it wasn't her money to spend as she chose until sometime in the 19th century (various married women's property acts) nor was any other property she had prior to her marriage or later inherited. There were various other restrictions and customs that lasted a lot longer. This is the legal landscape that many of these patriarchal types want to return to. Note that Spanish civil law was somewhat different and affected Californian and some other states law.
"Botkin had a 200-year plan for his family detailed on “an Excel spreadsheet with all of his children’s names on it, and all of the projects that he planned out for them,”"
So...They were GROOMED into doing this book? Sure sounds like grooming to me. CHILDREN pushed into a lifestyle that they likely would not choose if they had the mental capacity to understand, and pushed to write a book about it on top of that? Grooming. Absolutely.
Grooming, indoctrination, both terms apply here. Both amount to shoving a child into a mold that doesn't necessarily fit the being, but that doesn't matter. Conformity to an externally-imposed "norm" is the standard for such parenting, and if that means erasure of the individual and what they might otherwise bring to the table?
Well, you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. 😠
Further Thought: that the Botkin sisters were writing this book at ages 15 and 17 should scream at anyone who actually cares about how human beings are and how they live. Anna and Elizabeth weren't writing from experience. They were writing from their own indoctrination, what had been drilled into their heads from the time that they were born. The question should have been asked by anyone thinking of taking their advice: Where are these girls getting this from? Are they drawing on their own experience (32 woman-years worth???), or is it coming from someplace else?
Here's another thought: in writing that book, the Botkins were exercising their own agency, albeit in a misguided manner. I wonder if that desire to serve and help was accompanied by enough curiosity to allow them to see the fallout from what they were promoting.
Anyone reading the book should have looked into these girls’ lives to ensure they weren’t being abused. I question the validity of authorship when any book is written by a child and published, especially with a great deal of fanfare or praise. But, a book that is focused on morals and how any population should live written by a child is screaming that something is going on behind the scenes, something sinister. Add to that the fact that the lessons in the book are overtly oppressive and probably abusive, well I don’t have to say it.
Have they asked their publisher to pull the book from its catalog, though? Have they offered to donate the money they've made off of it to a charity that helps the people they harmed? An apology without an attempt to make amends is better than nothing, but... not by very much.
It is entirely possible their father controls the books and almost certainly controls the original profits. Remember they were minors when they wrote the first and almost certainly signed the contracts under his direction even when young adults.
Good point. That said, now that both women are over the age of majority, a suit to reclaim their intellectual property might lie. That action might fracture the relationship they have with their father, but it may be necessary to more fully correct the problem which began with their book in the first place.
Any woman who supports repealing the 19th amendment can STFU. No one is telling you that you have to vote different from your husband. My wife votes the same way I do but she does it because of her beliefs, not mine. If you want 'family voting' then do it. But I don't want that and until the fascists completely take over we won't have that.
“Turns out even a 200-year plan can be derailed by women who have the audacity to think for themselves.”
Women know this. A 200-year plan, or the millennia old religion itself, knows that. This is the reason it is so focused on controlling women, removing their voices, restricting their options, forcing their reproduction. Reality is the human world functions as a matriarchy, or it’s supposed to anyway, and the patriarchal religions that have forced themselves onto society have caused immeasurable damage just in the effort to cling to power. Even the power they want so badly is detrimental to the well being of society as a whole, as well as the environment and the planet. We are literally facing extinction (and not because of a declining birth rate) from climate change because a few men, and the pick me women who support them, are hoarding wealth and playacting geniuses. Religion has given them all cover (whether they actively utilize it or not) to act on their worst impulses, actually they live for their worst impulses.
Christianity, and others, has setup society as an unhealthy authoritarian system, with a mercurial strongman at the top, and gives license to all mercurial strongmen opportunities to exploit that system. The book these girls wrote was just one more toothpick in the elementary school model monument of patriarchy. I can’t blame teenaged girls for their role in the book, they really didn’t write it themselves after all, they had no other reference to reality and attaching themselves to this was never their choice. I do blame the mothers, and adult women who decided two children knew best. Of course, most of the blame falls on the men who know better, who actively participated in the oppression of women in service of building their own power and authority they didn’t earn and don’t deserve. Their father was looking for his fifteen minutes of fame, at the cost of his daughters’ lives.
I do hope these women find their way out of the religious thinking. Their apology is good, it’s not enough. They have a long way to go, as their devotion to serving god is still a trap that is oppressive and harmful to all women and children. They might not find their way, which I don’t really blame them for that, as victims they already have made great strides towards escape. But as folks who have made it out of the trap, or those who were never caught in it, we must fight to free everyone else.
Elizabeth Botkin Thompson isn’t sorry at all and isn’t taking any responsibility for the very real damage they caused. Misinterpretation of scripture? What a joke. There’s a reason why you don’t ever see trad wives in their 40’s or 50’s…
The fact that you can 'interpret or 'reinterpret' scripture says it all about the veracity of 'god's word' and exposes the pure bullshit that the bible's human authors want to you to believe in order to control you and pick your pockets.
I am a product of a culture in which we were taught to prepare to be a wife and mother from a very young age. Other education was nice and cute but generally simply optional. I spent most of my life, including my adulthood (I am now 70) struggling with the inculcated belief that I was inferior because of my gender. Even now, I have a hard time with that. I am now retired, but I worked as an attorney for 35 years and raised two children and was married for 26 of those years. I tried to have it all, but I always felt defective at everything because I didn’t focus entirely on one thing or the other. These are unhealthy attitudes that we have passed on to our girls and our boys. We are all human beings.
The crap that some parents lay on kids, on boys and girls both, is phenomenal in its ability to damage and distort who they are. I continue to be convinced that religion is the primary source of this crap, and that those who promote these anachronistic and atavistic approaches need to be called on their foolishness.
Cliche or not, the kids ARE our future. They deserve to face it without being fucked up by badly outdated dogma.
OT: I’ll be around less than usual for the next week. Going to a wedding in SW Colorado and taking the opportunity to look around the area. Drive the Million Dollar Highway. Try to spot some wild horses and bighorn sheep. Hot springs spas.
If you like hiking and are in that area, I recommend Hanging Lake, just outside Glenwood Springs. It’s a beautiful hike and the lake is amazing. It is uphill the whole way but the trail is well maintained. It should still be open but I am not paying attention to Colorado weather. Or just stay at the hot springs pool and eat at Doc Holliday.
I might have had more sympathy for them had they left Christianity behind after all the damage it and they did. But they're still part of the system that abuses women and girls. They've not truly liberated themselves. Had they done so, their message would've been far more powerful.
I quote Ted Arroway: "Small moves, Ellie. Small moves."
See how they blame their father, who was assumably, guided by God? Or maybe it was just their own father lying to them for his own gain?
Either way, leaving all that behind would be tough for women who have no other options to get out except marriage.
But it can be done.
Especially tough if they have no friends in the 'outside' world, no support group. An excellent book on this subject is Women v. Religion, the Case Against Faith and --for Freedom ed by Karen L. Garst, PhD.
Such stupid sick humans …
makes my flesh creep.
Theists and their doGs.
… 🦘🦘🦘
𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑏𝑒𝑔𝑎𝑛 𝑤𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑏𝑜𝑜𝑘 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 15- 𝑎𝑛𝑑 17-𝑦𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑠-𝑜𝑙𝑑 𝑖𝑛 𝑜𝑟𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑡𝑜 𝑜𝑓𝑓𝑒𝑟 “𝑝𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙, 𝑏𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙 𝑠𝑜𝑙𝑢𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑔 𝑤𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑛 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑤𝑎𝑛𝑡𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑑𝑜 𝑠𝑜 𝑚𝑢𝑐ℎ 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡 ‘𝑠𝑢𝑟𝑣𝑖𝑣𝑒’ 𝑖𝑛 𝑎 𝑠𝑎𝑣𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑙𝑦 𝑓𝑒𝑚𝑖𝑛𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑐, 𝑎𝑛𝑡𝑖-𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛 𝑐𝑢𝑙𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑒.”
They were at the height of the indoctrination while still children. Whoever that doesn't excuse the harm, it does make forgiveness easier.
"𝑊𝑒 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑑𝑒𝑒𝑝𝑙𝑦 𝑠𝑜𝑟𝑟𝑦, 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑏𝑜𝑜𝑘’𝑠 𝑤𝑟𝑜𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑒𝑎𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑤𝑎𝑦𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑡 𝑦𝑜𝑢."
Even the deeply indoctrinated can learn. There is hope.
𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑠𝑎𝑦 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑜𝑝𝑒𝑛 𝑙𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 “𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑢𝑎𝑙 𝑠𝑐𝑖𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑖𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑙𝑦𝑖𝑛𝑔” 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐵𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑒, 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑐ℎ 𝑖𝑠… 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑐𝑒𝑟𝑛𝑖𝑛𝑔.
Baby steps. Their eyes have been opened to the very real harm they caused. There is still hope that they will break the shackles of their indoctrination completely. The path from indoctrinated robot to freely thinking human can be long and arduous.
Because girls 15 and 17 know all about marriage.
They learned about marriage in much the same way that Fozzie Bear learned how to drive: "I took a correspondence course!"
Wukka-wukka-wukka!
“Bear left!”
“Frog right!”
I was a child. I trusted people. They were supposed to tell me the truth. They were supposed to have my best interests at heart.
They lied to me. They hid things from me. They told me THEIR version of the 'truth'. Never told me there were other versions.
And I acted accordingly. I tormented myself over 'sin'. I was afraid of Hell and God. I parroted what I had been taught telling others it was the Truth. I said and did hurtful things in the name of Love. Because hurting someone now seems a small thing to potentially saving them from an eternity of pain and suffering.
I never questioned. I never doubted. Until I did decades later. Decades that I wasted pursuing a career as a pastor. Decades I suffered from depression seeking a cure in being a better Christian.
I feel like I owe everyone I hurt an apology and amends even though some of them probably have forgotten about me entirely.
Now, when asked to speak about the Bible, I acknowledge that most of it is NOT black and white right off the bat and the very few parts that are black and white (like caring for the poor and welcoming refugees and strangers) are parts that white Evangelicals typically ignore and explain away. I acknowledge the misogyny born from a culture where women were property. I acknowledge racism when it appears (Ezra, Nehemiah). I acknowledge the expectation of slavery as an institution and how even Paul was a contradiction on the subject preaching of universal brotherhood while telling slave to submit and I explain the context of the Roman empire and how brutal they were on slave revolts and those encouraging them. How slavers had plenty of verses to support their ideas and how abolitionists were the "liberals" who were arguing about concepts and higher ideals.
The Bible was written by men (and possibly a couple of women) like us. Prone to the same prejudices, weaknesses, ignorance, blind spots, and hatreds. What a man takes away from his Bible speaks more about him than it does about the book itself. And too many men (and women) are looking for a moral authority to cover their own hatreds, prejudices, and evil.
There are too many Fred Phelps and not nearly enough Fred Rogers.
Nailed it right here!
𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑜𝑜 𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝐹𝑟𝑒𝑑 𝑃ℎ𝑒𝑙𝑝𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑛𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑙𝑦 𝑒𝑛𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝐹𝑟𝑒𝑑 𝑅𝑜𝑔𝑒𝑟𝑠.
↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ Absolutely Stinking THIS!!!↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
My impression is that the book the Botkin sisters wrote and the positions they held were, predictably, based in the idealistic dogma they were brought up with. The problem became when that idealism ran up against that persistent little concept known as REALITY. Dealing with REAL human beings, real men and women in real-world situations forced Anna and Elizabeth to reevaluate what they had written and what they were recommending to others. At least they had sufficient bravery to admit their error.
I've said it before: "When toxic ideology runs headlong into reality and human beings, it ain't the ideology that gets hurt." Herewith note Exhibit A.
If a woman chooses to be a doormat, not vote, and become what amounts to a piece of her husband's property, that's her choice. Albeit a very foolish one. She does not, under any circumstances, get to make that decision for anyone but herself.
More likely it's a choice that is either forced upon her or indoctrinated into her, before she has the intellect, the discrimination, and the independent agency to understand what is being foisted on her. The brand of Christianity that the Botkins grew up with reflects the same kind of patriarchy which the bible is lousy with.
It's just their good fortune that they finally recognized and rejected it.
It makes you wonder just how many women would actually make that choice if they hadn't been indoctrinated into believing it was the "correct" choice.
Pre-stinking-cisely! Raise ANY child, male or female, to be themselves, to learn about themselves and grow into and discover themselves, with gentle nudges here and there, but nothing so drastic and pernicious as Christian dogma, and I think you get a far healthier child, youth, and adult in the final analysis.
My sister married at 33. She’d been a single woman, professional, put herself through grad school—even though my parents told her no man would want a used woman (she’d had an abortion at 19) with more education than he had. She’d been a member of NOW and Greenpeace. _Something happened_ when she met her to-be husband. She told me the right thing was to turn all her earnings (yes, she remained employed) to her husband and just get an allowance. Was it the ghostly remnants of my parents’ patriarchal idiocy coming home to roost? I’ve no idea. I stopped talking to her because suddenly it was all bible this and that.
I remember reading about the Botkin sisters’ book and thinking who the heck adheres to life advice from a couple of teen agers, but I answered my own question.
That makes me angry. I thought you were going to say that she met a wonderful man who supported her, then you went to the dark place. A pox on your parents for not being proud of what she achieved, instead comparing her to gum.
"She told me the right thing was to turn all her earnings (yes, she remained employed) to her husband and just get an allowance. "
Now where did she get that kind of patriarchal slop from (besides the Bible and one's interpretation of it)? It's HER money for hers to keep, not his! She doesn't need to fork over her money to him all the time so he can spend on booze and beer!
It seems she'd never wanted to give up Christian fundieism in the first place.
Indoctrination. It's one hell of a drug.
Tell me about it.
Obviously, that's not necessary. The Botkin sisters might do with a bit of of a reminder, though.
Legally under English common law (and thus much American law) it wasn't her money to spend as she chose until sometime in the 19th century (various married women's property acts) nor was any other property she had prior to her marriage or later inherited. There were various other restrictions and customs that lasted a lot longer. This is the legal landscape that many of these patriarchal types want to return to. Note that Spanish civil law was somewhat different and affected Californian and some other states law.
"Botkin had a 200-year plan for his family detailed on “an Excel spreadsheet with all of his children’s names on it, and all of the projects that he planned out for them,”"
Very Muskish. What a fucking psychopath.
So...They were GROOMED into doing this book? Sure sounds like grooming to me. CHILDREN pushed into a lifestyle that they likely would not choose if they had the mental capacity to understand, and pushed to write a book about it on top of that? Grooming. Absolutely.
Grooming, indoctrination, both terms apply here. Both amount to shoving a child into a mold that doesn't necessarily fit the being, but that doesn't matter. Conformity to an externally-imposed "norm" is the standard for such parenting, and if that means erasure of the individual and what they might otherwise bring to the table?
Well, you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. 😠
Further Thought: that the Botkin sisters were writing this book at ages 15 and 17 should scream at anyone who actually cares about how human beings are and how they live. Anna and Elizabeth weren't writing from experience. They were writing from their own indoctrination, what had been drilled into their heads from the time that they were born. The question should have been asked by anyone thinking of taking their advice: Where are these girls getting this from? Are they drawing on their own experience (32 woman-years worth???), or is it coming from someplace else?
Here's another thought: in writing that book, the Botkins were exercising their own agency, albeit in a misguided manner. I wonder if that desire to serve and help was accompanied by enough curiosity to allow them to see the fallout from what they were promoting.
Because it sure looks like it.
Anyone reading the book should have looked into these girls’ lives to ensure they weren’t being abused. I question the validity of authorship when any book is written by a child and published, especially with a great deal of fanfare or praise. But, a book that is focused on morals and how any population should live written by a child is screaming that something is going on behind the scenes, something sinister. Add to that the fact that the lessons in the book are overtly oppressive and probably abusive, well I don’t have to say it.
Have they asked their publisher to pull the book from its catalog, though? Have they offered to donate the money they've made off of it to a charity that helps the people they harmed? An apology without an attempt to make amends is better than nothing, but... not by very much.
It is entirely possible their father controls the books and almost certainly controls the original profits. Remember they were minors when they wrote the first and almost certainly signed the contracts under his direction even when young adults.
Good point. That said, now that both women are over the age of majority, a suit to reclaim their intellectual property might lie. That action might fracture the relationship they have with their father, but it may be necessary to more fully correct the problem which began with their book in the first place.
Bingo.
Any woman who supports repealing the 19th amendment can STFU. No one is telling you that you have to vote different from your husband. My wife votes the same way I do but she does it because of her beliefs, not mine. If you want 'family voting' then do it. But I don't want that and until the fascists completely take over we won't have that.
“Turns out even a 200-year plan can be derailed by women who have the audacity to think for themselves.”
Women know this. A 200-year plan, or the millennia old religion itself, knows that. This is the reason it is so focused on controlling women, removing their voices, restricting their options, forcing their reproduction. Reality is the human world functions as a matriarchy, or it’s supposed to anyway, and the patriarchal religions that have forced themselves onto society have caused immeasurable damage just in the effort to cling to power. Even the power they want so badly is detrimental to the well being of society as a whole, as well as the environment and the planet. We are literally facing extinction (and not because of a declining birth rate) from climate change because a few men, and the pick me women who support them, are hoarding wealth and playacting geniuses. Religion has given them all cover (whether they actively utilize it or not) to act on their worst impulses, actually they live for their worst impulses.
Christianity, and others, has setup society as an unhealthy authoritarian system, with a mercurial strongman at the top, and gives license to all mercurial strongmen opportunities to exploit that system. The book these girls wrote was just one more toothpick in the elementary school model monument of patriarchy. I can’t blame teenaged girls for their role in the book, they really didn’t write it themselves after all, they had no other reference to reality and attaching themselves to this was never their choice. I do blame the mothers, and adult women who decided two children knew best. Of course, most of the blame falls on the men who know better, who actively participated in the oppression of women in service of building their own power and authority they didn’t earn and don’t deserve. Their father was looking for his fifteen minutes of fame, at the cost of his daughters’ lives.
I do hope these women find their way out of the religious thinking. Their apology is good, it’s not enough. They have a long way to go, as their devotion to serving god is still a trap that is oppressive and harmful to all women and children. They might not find their way, which I don’t really blame them for that, as victims they already have made great strides towards escape. But as folks who have made it out of the trap, or those who were never caught in it, we must fight to free everyone else.
Elizabeth Botkin Thompson isn’t sorry at all and isn’t taking any responsibility for the very real damage they caused. Misinterpretation of scripture? What a joke. There’s a reason why you don’t ever see trad wives in their 40’s or 50’s…
The fact that you can 'interpret or 'reinterpret' scripture says it all about the veracity of 'god's word' and exposes the pure bullshit that the bible's human authors want to you to believe in order to control you and pick your pockets.
I am a product of a culture in which we were taught to prepare to be a wife and mother from a very young age. Other education was nice and cute but generally simply optional. I spent most of my life, including my adulthood (I am now 70) struggling with the inculcated belief that I was inferior because of my gender. Even now, I have a hard time with that. I am now retired, but I worked as an attorney for 35 years and raised two children and was married for 26 of those years. I tried to have it all, but I always felt defective at everything because I didn’t focus entirely on one thing or the other. These are unhealthy attitudes that we have passed on to our girls and our boys. We are all human beings.
The crap that some parents lay on kids, on boys and girls both, is phenomenal in its ability to damage and distort who they are. I continue to be convinced that religion is the primary source of this crap, and that those who promote these anachronistic and atavistic approaches need to be called on their foolishness.
Cliche or not, the kids ARE our future. They deserve to face it without being fucked up by badly outdated dogma.
OT: I’ll be around less than usual for the next week. Going to a wedding in SW Colorado and taking the opportunity to look around the area. Drive the Million Dollar Highway. Try to spot some wild horses and bighorn sheep. Hot springs spas.
Enjoy. Have a GREAT time!
I’ve located 2 distilleries!
Ooooo, fun!
Retirement? Where do you find the time for it? ;)
If you like hiking and are in that area, I recommend Hanging Lake, just outside Glenwood Springs. It’s a beautiful hike and the lake is amazing. It is uphill the whole way but the trail is well maintained. It should still be open but I am not paying attention to Colorado weather. Or just stay at the hot springs pool and eat at Doc Holliday.
Thank you. I’ll check it out later today. There’s a restaurant on the Telluride gondola ride that I want to try.