The last thing the free-thought community needs is for organizations to begin behaving like Christian denominations, trying to out-Jesus one another. This situation seems resolvable, and if these people are dedicated to reason as they claim, then it should be. That said, people are people and when they start getting territorial nothing good comes of it.
That's all we need: a potential argument between two atheist organizations WITH THE SAME FREAKING NAME! At some point or other, I would rather expect some courtroom action regarding the too-close similarity of those two groups, while Religious Reich organizations, seeing this business, will delight in sniping at both of them, while doing their best to hide their own internal divisions.
We REALLY don't need this right now, and I hope it can be resolved with a minimum of fuss.
Rookie mistakes for an organisation founded in1991 ? How did they manage to fill the paperwork until now ? Are there some elon musk's or drumpster's family members on the board ?
Dropped stitches like this in an organization over 30 years old strikes me as both unlikely and suspicious. I have to wonder if there is a lot more to this story than what Hemant has at this point.
And for the umpti-umpth time, followup is MANDATORY.
I don't see any reason to think conspiracy or malice. If the "Version 1" organization had one or a couple competent business types who did the paperwork for them, and those people/positions turned over, that would pretty much explain it. Heck those positions could've turned over several times without issue, and this could simply be related on one incompetent hire on or around 2023.
In any event, lots of organizations have serious problems with organizational memory, and can 'forget' how to do stuff they've done well for years when some valued competent employee leaves.
Aren't those who retire supposed to have time to train their successor ? Successor who should have been vetted to verify they have the right set of competences.
In an ideal world, yes. The new hire/promotee should come on board at least four to six weeks before the departing employee departs, and work under the latter's wing, learning the ropes.
In the real world, that seldom happens. In all the places I worked, this model was used in only one company, and that model was scrapped as soon as somebody bought the company.
I'll stipulate that Hanlon's Razor is likely applicable here. Yet after three decades of relatively regular operation, how does this happen? That is no small question, and I think it demands further investigation.
Oh but also the new organization somehow got the affiliate contact list from the old one and then sent threatening letters to former affiliates if they didn't properly pledge their fealty.
Here's what I received in June (the BC Humanists were briefly an affiliate of AAI before the entire Silverman-Sherlock affairs).
-----
To whom it concerns.
You are receiving this email because, according to our records, your organization was a member of Atheist Alliance International (AAI) during 2017.
You are probably aware that AAI has not been doing business legally since 2021, when it was suspended by the California Franchise Tax Board and the California Secretary of State. Under California law, AAI then lost all its legal powers, rights and privileges, including the right to use the business name Atheist Alliance International.
I am writing to inform you that a new nonprofit corporation named Atheist Alliance International has now been incorporated in California by a group of people - including myself - who are unrelated to the suspended organization. The new organization represents a reconstitution of the Alliance, under the 2017 bylaws, for the benefit of the legitimate members of AAI.
Clause 13 of the current bylaws states:
"The Board can suspend or revoke any Membership if it ... considers that the Member’s activities are incompatible with the best interests of the Alliance as a whole."
Your organization's support for the people who were involved in the anti-democratic takeover of AAI in 2018, and/or their illegitimate successors, would appear to be in breach of Clause 13 of the current bylaws.
If you believe that your organization has not breached the current bylaws, and if you would like to remain a member of Atheist Alliance International, then we invite you to provide us with a summary of facts and reasons why you believe that your support of the organization formerly known as AAI has not breached clause 13 of the bylaws.
If you do not respond to this email within 30 days, then we will assume that you no longer wish to be a member of Atheist Alliance International, and we will remove your organization's name from the register of members. You will then be welcome to re-apply for membership at any future date, in accordance with the bylaws.
Sincerely,
Martin Boers
Secretary
ATHEIST ALLIANCE INTERNATIONAL
Registered in California no. 5692119
Principal address: 1401 21st ST # 6017, Sacramento, CA 95811
Tell us you're stewing in your own privilege without the need to worry about any real problems, without telling us you're stewing in your own privilege without the need to worry about any real problems. I mean, really- starting petty schoolyard shit 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 year, of all years? Kinda makes you want to grab someone by the collar and shake them while yelling "𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵'𝘴 𝘸𝘳𝘰𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘺𝘰𝘶? 𝘋𝘰𝘯'𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘺𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘣𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘰 𝘣𝘦 𝘥𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘺𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦?!" in their face.
Yep. Even at that rally of his in West Palm Beach a couple of weeks ago, when he told his gathering of "beautiful Christians" that if they voted for him, they'd "never have to vote again...it would all be fixed."
What should have been a WTF moment even for that crowd just brought on cheering. While I'm sure his campaign workers were shitting boulders because he had just blurted the really, really, REALLY quiet part out loud, not one of those knot-heads in the audience called him out or even asked for a clarification. "Whaddaya mean, never have to vote again? How will we keep electin' ya?"
They're fully onboard with busting up the china shop, and I'm very concerned at the muted response this received, even from the so-called mainstream media. I for one thought that this, at least, would be all over the news for days. Color me naive.
My old high school (also named Robert E Lee) recently changed its name and mascot. My feeling on that was it was about @(*$ time they did, too. That school district had tons of Confederate names there was just zero justification for.
With all the subtlety of a charging elephant just kicked in the bits, my high school's mascot was the General A.K.A. Bob Ed. The crosstown rival was Jefferson Davis - their mascot was the Volunteer. Back when I was attending high school, I didn't understand just how bad it was. Remembering it now? It makes me want to cry. 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜 𝑣𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑑 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑓𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑚𝑖𝑛𝑜𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑤𝑎𝑦.
This sort of BS is about hurting people for fun. It's not about heritage, or tradition, or any of the other 'reasons' often presented to try and keep the status quo in force. I have zero respect for that, and refuse to change my position on it anymore. I understand the school is now named for Dr. Percy L Julian, an African American chemist and research scientist, the new mascot is a phoenix, and they've removed the statue of Lee that was in front of the school. Step in the right direction on most fronts there, and if you want to take a peek, here's a link:
There is a Robespierre high school at Arras (somewhere is the north of France). Where I lived, there was a Jules Ferry and a Simone Veil high schools (respectively figureheads for mandatory public secular school and right to abortion laws).
Except for private schools, we just call them after the suburb they happen to be in. No imagination I know, but at least we don't have a Joseph Goebbels high school on the books.
For a big, brave, gun-toting murderer who mowed down three people (and killed two, I believe?) he didn't know from Adam's housecat, just because they had the temerity to protest IN ANOTHER FREAKIN' STATE, he sure knuckled under to MAGA snipers pretty quickly. Way to go, Big Guy. Looks like you're every bit the yellow-bellied coward your orange idol is.
Looking at the history of the terminated organization made my former work brain go into trigger mode about having to research this kind of stuff. Any group or company that can’t get their shit together to file simple paperwork is not one I’d trust to do any kind of business with nor trust to give money to.
The last thing the free-thought community needs is for organizations to begin behaving like Christian denominations, trying to out-Jesus one another. This situation seems resolvable, and if these people are dedicated to reason as they claim, then it should be. That said, people are people and when they start getting territorial nothing good comes of it.
A Homeowners Association is a red flag. Stear clear of any neighborhood that sports one.
That's all we need: a potential argument between two atheist organizations WITH THE SAME FREAKING NAME! At some point or other, I would rather expect some courtroom action regarding the too-close similarity of those two groups, while Religious Reich organizations, seeing this business, will delight in sniping at both of them, while doing their best to hide their own internal divisions.
We REALLY don't need this right now, and I hope it can be resolved with a minimum of fuss.
"Just a whole bunch of rookie mistakes."
Rookie mistakes for an organisation founded in1991 ? How did they manage to fill the paperwork until now ? Are there some elon musk's or drumpster's family members on the board ?
Dropped stitches like this in an organization over 30 years old strikes me as both unlikely and suspicious. I have to wonder if there is a lot more to this story than what Hemant has at this point.
And for the umpti-umpth time, followup is MANDATORY.
I agree with you, especially since none of them were willing to communicate.
I don't see any reason to think conspiracy or malice. If the "Version 1" organization had one or a couple competent business types who did the paperwork for them, and those people/positions turned over, that would pretty much explain it. Heck those positions could've turned over several times without issue, and this could simply be related on one incompetent hire on or around 2023.
In any event, lots of organizations have serious problems with organizational memory, and can 'forget' how to do stuff they've done well for years when some valued competent employee leaves.
Aren't those who retire supposed to have time to train their successor ? Successor who should have been vetted to verify they have the right set of competences.
In an ideal world, yes. The new hire/promotee should come on board at least four to six weeks before the departing employee departs, and work under the latter's wing, learning the ropes.
In the real world, that seldom happens. In all the places I worked, this model was used in only one company, and that model was scrapped as soon as somebody bought the company.
I'll stipulate that Hanlon's Razor is likely applicable here. Yet after three decades of relatively regular operation, how does this happen? That is no small question, and I think it demands further investigation.
When the competent admin who used to handle this left...
1. AAI didn't replace them. Or,
2. Replaced them with someone without much experience. Or,
3. Replaced them with someone who lied on their resume about knowing this stuff. Or,
4. Had a fully competent replacement lined up, but bad retirement/hiring timing caused them to miss the deadline. Or,
5. The previous competent admin left all sorts of good instructions, which then sat in someone's inbox.
Or, or, or.
It's not a 'small question' in the sense of impact. But "big" impactful events don't necessarily require "big" explanations.
Both.
Fatal rookie mistakes too.
"Excuse me, are you the Judean People's Front?"
"Fuck off! We're the People's Front of Judea!"
"Judean People's Front! Cor! Wankers!"
Whatever happened to the Popular Front?
He's over there.
*looks* SPLITTER!
Still Bluming in France
Oh but also the new organization somehow got the affiliate contact list from the old one and then sent threatening letters to former affiliates if they didn't properly pledge their fealty.
Here's what I received in June (the BC Humanists were briefly an affiliate of AAI before the entire Silverman-Sherlock affairs).
-----
To whom it concerns.
You are receiving this email because, according to our records, your organization was a member of Atheist Alliance International (AAI) during 2017.
You are probably aware that AAI has not been doing business legally since 2021, when it was suspended by the California Franchise Tax Board and the California Secretary of State. Under California law, AAI then lost all its legal powers, rights and privileges, including the right to use the business name Atheist Alliance International.
I am writing to inform you that a new nonprofit corporation named Atheist Alliance International has now been incorporated in California by a group of people - including myself - who are unrelated to the suspended organization. The new organization represents a reconstitution of the Alliance, under the 2017 bylaws, for the benefit of the legitimate members of AAI.
Clause 13 of the current bylaws states:
"The Board can suspend or revoke any Membership if it ... considers that the Member’s activities are incompatible with the best interests of the Alliance as a whole."
Your organization's support for the people who were involved in the anti-democratic takeover of AAI in 2018, and/or their illegitimate successors, would appear to be in breach of Clause 13 of the current bylaws.
If you believe that your organization has not breached the current bylaws, and if you would like to remain a member of Atheist Alliance International, then we invite you to provide us with a summary of facts and reasons why you believe that your support of the organization formerly known as AAI has not breached clause 13 of the bylaws.
If you do not respond to this email within 30 days, then we will assume that you no longer wish to be a member of Atheist Alliance International, and we will remove your organization's name from the register of members. You will then be welcome to re-apply for membership at any future date, in accordance with the bylaws.
Sincerely,
Martin Boers
Secretary
ATHEIST ALLIANCE INTERNATIONAL
Registered in California no. 5692119
Principal address: 1401 21st ST # 6017, Sacramento, CA 95811
Sheesh. Subtitled, "How not to make a good first impression"?
Tell us you're stewing in your own privilege without the need to worry about any real problems, without telling us you're stewing in your own privilege without the need to worry about any real problems. I mean, really- starting petty schoolyard shit 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 year, of all years? Kinda makes you want to grab someone by the collar and shake them while yelling "𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵'𝘴 𝘸𝘳𝘰𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘺𝘰𝘶? 𝘋𝘰𝘯'𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘺𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘣𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘰 𝘣𝘦 𝘥𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘺𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦?!" in their face.
I pray that this can all be worked out...
lol!
“You got both hands
You got both hands
You got praying hands
You got praying hands
They pray for no man
They pray for no man” - DEVO, ‘Praying Hands’
I don't believe I understood anything, except that they act as toddlers.
Organisation A fucked up their paperwork. Organisation B, allegedly founded by protesters from A, used this weakness to organise a sort of coup.
Hey, that actually make sense.
They fucked around and found out.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/24e4ee24ccad5ce5d49f9ce775fd2ffe24d99a4b4e6c2aad43adf4bbca83e33f.jpg
Trump is a bull who provides his own china shop whenever he speaks with a group that is not his base.
Even with his base. Except they cheer him on every time he does it.
Yep. Even at that rally of his in West Palm Beach a couple of weeks ago, when he told his gathering of "beautiful Christians" that if they voted for him, they'd "never have to vote again...it would all be fixed."
What should have been a WTF moment even for that crowd just brought on cheering. While I'm sure his campaign workers were shitting boulders because he had just blurted the really, really, REALLY quiet part out loud, not one of those knot-heads in the audience called him out or even asked for a clarification. "Whaddaya mean, never have to vote again? How will we keep electin' ya?"
They're fully onboard with busting up the china shop, and I'm very concerned at the muted response this received, even from the so-called mainstream media. I for one thought that this, at least, would be all over the news for days. Color me naive.
Well said!
As long as...
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/453382815_122104437662443865_6017420411308943466_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=pGfZe7YxrvsQ7kNvgGXvbts&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AYDG1S_xzOwZEtp9y2mo7y76xeENxe1IrEvyc_zSRHhdJA&oe=66B5E538
Apparently being two races is bad, but having 34 felonies is good. The kkkrazy world of republikkkons.
Uhh, what?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e8521a821d4a9d8f942875d5201f2a683b21d27d896d36d25f6edae462699de3.jpg
They did this just to be funny...right?
Joke nominations.
Some dumbasses would seriously propose the 4th.
Republicans, I’m guessing.
My old high school (also named Robert E Lee) recently changed its name and mascot. My feeling on that was it was about @(*$ time they did, too. That school district had tons of Confederate names there was just zero justification for.
My old high school, Dixie Hollins*, changed their name to Hollins High School a few years ago.
* A philanthropist whose donation helped create the school.
With all the subtlety of a charging elephant just kicked in the bits, my high school's mascot was the General A.K.A. Bob Ed. The crosstown rival was Jefferson Davis - their mascot was the Volunteer. Back when I was attending high school, I didn't understand just how bad it was. Remembering it now? It makes me want to cry. 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜 𝑣𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑑 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑓𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑚𝑖𝑛𝑜𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑤𝑎𝑦.
This sort of BS is about hurting people for fun. It's not about heritage, or tradition, or any of the other 'reasons' often presented to try and keep the status quo in force. I have zero respect for that, and refuse to change my position on it anymore. I understand the school is now named for Dr. Percy L Julian, an African American chemist and research scientist, the new mascot is a phoenix, and they've removed the statue of Lee that was in front of the school. Step in the right direction on most fronts there, and if you want to take a peek, here's a link:
https://www.mps.k12.al.us/o/pjhs
Addendum:
The school was named after Dixie Martin Hollins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollins_High_School#Name_and_mascot
Notable alumni
Buzz Sawyer, professional wrestler
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollins_High_School#Notable_alumni
There is a Robespierre high school at Arras (somewhere is the north of France). Where I lived, there was a Jules Ferry and a Simone Veil high schools (respectively figureheads for mandatory public secular school and right to abortion laws).
Except for private schools, we just call them after the suburb they happen to be in. No imagination I know, but at least we don't have a Joseph Goebbels high school on the books.
We briefly had a few Pétain schools during WW2, strangely they all changed name after 1945 😁
Dans ton...
French joke.
https://www.joemygod.com/2024/08/rittenhouse-caves-to-maga-threats-im-voting-trump/
Haha!
So much for conservatives being against "groupthink."
It's not groupthink if they share one brain cell.
Does it still count as sharing if that brain cell has a restraining order against them?
A whole brain cell? Wow, and all this time I had thought it was just a fragment.
Taking the "think" out of "groupthink".
“Trump influencers” and “productive conversations”.
The article puts the truth: death threats from trump-aligned bullies.
It will be daily life for us if Trump wins.
For a big, brave, gun-toting murderer who mowed down three people (and killed two, I believe?) he didn't know from Adam's housecat, just because they had the temerity to protest IN ANOTHER FREAKIN' STATE, he sure knuckled under to MAGA snipers pretty quickly. Way to go, Big Guy. Looks like you're every bit the yellow-bellied coward your orange idol is.
With a gun he wasn't allowed to possess, either in his state or in the one he committed his murders.
Atheist International Alliance, Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_Avengers
*much snickering*
Dang, that was supposed to be a reply to Marilyn's post.
Looking at the history of the terminated organization made my former work brain go into trigger mode about having to research this kind of stuff. Any group or company that can’t get their shit together to file simple paperwork is not one I’d trust to do any kind of business with nor trust to give money to.
KKKristrism explained in a triptych.
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/453992317_8388259627864101_4850910399559368567_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=bd9a62&_nc_ohc=Dz3hQ6PO3TIQ7kNvgHgGWZf&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AYBRd9JD6VVhnEOnYh82WuaiS_HcclYF-mICVm30_A-_0g&oe=66B5F33A