I had the same instinct and Googled the church. The pastoral Southern accent and delivery and, quite frankly, his age, tripped my sensors that the full sermon and/or others probably wouldn't live up to the clip as it was presented, but I didn't follow up and watch the whole sermon. Glad you did, Hemant.
“There has never been a Christian nation and never will be! You don’t live in one now!”
I’ll give him this.
“A Christian nation wouldn’t have killed and displaced 20 million Native Americans, or thought owning slaves was pleasing to God!”
He don’t know Christianity, do he? I mean, Christian leaders have always gone into colonizing. Missionaries are all about killing natives and keeping slaves along with the saving their souls. What does he think the proscriptions against LGBTQ and abortion is? Policies that are known for causing more death than they stop, make life more difficult for everyone and destroy economies that support the people over oligarchs. Texas’ abortion ban caused the maternal mortality rate to jump 50+% in a year. LGBTQpeople without support have a seriously high suicide rate, because his religion has decided to bully them. This is what Christianity is.
Pastor Livingston could stand to read his Bible a little bit more closely, especially Exodus 21 and Leviticus 25. Not only is his god approving of slavery, he tells you how and in what way to enslave your fellow human beings.
For that matter, the first passage you cite lays out the penalties for a man who injures or kills a pregnant woman. The penalties for injury to the woman follows one schedule but the penalty for death of the unborn child is not the same, and is along the lines of a property damage fine. So his Bible does not see the deliberate death of a fetus AT THE HANDS OF AN ATTACKER as that big of a deal. Like stealing a donkey.
Of course, this is a heinously sexist position, but it's one of the few places where the Bible talks about the topic at all.
This is the Bible Law that some ignorant people would like to see implemented.
Thank you SO VERY much for raising the issue of SPONTANEOUS abortion, which is the medical term. It is beyond humane, criminal really, to put women in the medically precarious, and ridiculous situation of waiting until there’s no heartbeat detected to provide lifesaving medical care until women are literally at death’s door. And for some women, rendering them infertile. The vast majority suffering an impending spontaneous abortion are devastated because the pregnancy was desperately wanted. Governor Greg Abbott I’m looking at you, you absolutely horrible and criminal excuse for a human being. 🇨🇦 The other issue is that these so-called “pro life” creatures, cosplaying human beings are really just pro birth - that is their only mission is to make sure every pregnancy is carried to term. Then you’re on your own. That is anything BUT pro life! Oh, and, many of these people have the resources or obtain abortions when it suits them. The hypocrisy is monumental! 😖😵💫😣🇨🇦
"In the months before the Supreme Court ruled on Roe v. Wade, the Willkes published How to teach people the pro-life story, a modern-day sales manual on how to effectively market the movement. It was a play-by-play on how the Willkes communicated pro-life arguments so that other speakers might follow their lead. As described in the book, they never showed visuals of embryos less than six weeks old because “the audience may change their minds from their conviction that this is a human life.” They began their lectures with pictures of babies nearing full-term and subsequently moved through the fetal development process in reverse chronological order, asking the audience with each image: is this still a human? Their intention, as explained in the book, was to start with a picture that resembled a human to anchor the audience in the belief that they were looking at a living, breathing person."
I watched it all unfold, from the segregation issue getting their voters to vote, then Bobby Jones segregation academy, temporarily losing their tax-free status, to Billy Graham taking Evangelism into the mainstream, Then Graham sucking up to every president who would let his anti-semitic posterior in the White House, seeking political power. They were not against abortion then, it was a Catholic thing as you know.
Then the only issue they tested that got their voters riled enough to vote was...abortion! So they hired consultants and sold their fables and...here we are. We are now at lest two, if not three, generations downstream, and they think their religion has this as a "long-held belief. No, it was made up in my lifetime!
I've been an abortion rights activist for 40 some years. Yes, abortion is more prevalent among minorities. That's because minorities are more likely to be unable to financially or practically support an unexpected child. It has nothing to do with racist doctors and activists wanting black and brown people to kill their babies; it has to do with a racist system that keeps black and brown people down.
Same-sex is perverted, huh? Livingston ignores the fact that it is xtian clergy that keep making headlines for their perverse actions involving children.
OwossoHarpist linked to this in the last thread. I gave Livingston 1/2 credit for “There has never been a Christian nation, and never will be. You don’t live in one now. A Christian nation wouldn’t have killed and displaced 20 million Native Americans, or thought owning slaves was pleasing to God.”
Here the reason. The first sentence is ok if he is talking about just the USA. Lots of Nations have had a state religion based on some flavor of christianity.
Here's where the big deductions come. A lot of the killing and displacement took place during colonial times when they were governed by a divinely (supposedly) chosen king. Also, the god of the bible ordered mass murder and was aok with slavery.
I've written something along the lines before and I'll repeat it here (I'll probably write something similar on future occasions).
I live in a state which has got an established church. The church of England is the established church, so much so that the head of state is also the head of the church. Which might satisfy the criteria for a 'christian nation', or at least some of them.
And yet ... there's way less performative christianity around. Politicians don't mention god on a daily basis, there are no references to 'thoughts and prayers' on a frequent basis, it is just very different.
Chumpty Dumpty leaned on FIFA to lift a suspension on one of Team USA's players, because 𝘰𝘧 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘴𝘦 𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘪𝘥. I hope our team loses now. Not because I hate the players, mind- it's sportsball; I don't even know who they are- but because Cheetolini put his hamberder-greased thumb on the scales, and 𝘩𝘦 deserves to lose.
Two big red cards! One for the FIFA Peace Prize winner for using his trump card, and the other one for the corrupt FIFA big boss who suspended this US player's suspension.
This is really similar to the problem I had (still have) when I pointed out that Bergoglio (throne name, Pope Francis) was not the "good guy" that popular perception made him out to be. Every time, I'd ask if people knew about his history, and cared what his actual actions were. Most of the time, no, they didn't. Although lots of Argentines know about Bergoglio, USians mostly don't. They're conned by the media blitz. Which is why you need to take dumbassery like this preacher with a metric ton of salt. Thank you, Hemant, for doing exactly that.
Further Thought: Pastor Livingston, you're absolutely right in that we do not live in a Christian nation. Where you lose the thread is in suggesting that we should live in one. You have no guarantee that your particular brand of Christianity is going to be on top if we were to become such a nation. You might want to think about that.
Quote: "Pastor Livingston, you're absolutely right in that we do not live in a Christian nation. Where you lose the thread is in suggesting that we should live in one."
This guy reminds me more than a little of Timothy Cardinal Dolan. I think Dolan tried to fool the crowd by glad-handing the public and coming across as a jovial representative of the Church, while maintaining largely conservative and doctrinal Catholic standards. Pastor Livingston is doing much the same here, making noises that sound great if you don't listen to the entire context. The problem, of course, is that Hemant listened to the whole thing, and heard it for what it is.
I haven't thought about this before, but what do bald people put on their driver license? Does it actually say bald? And how much gray do I need to have to change my color from brown? And what about folks who dye their hair? I have so many questions now. I better stop thinking about it or I won't be able to sleep.
One of those wolves in sheep's clothing, cynically promoted by haters in an effort to convince those who are a bit left leaning that the haters on the right aren't "so bad" They are. This is diabolical.
“There has never been a Christian nation and never will be! You don’t live in one now! A Christian nation wouldn’t have killed and displaced 20 million Native Americans, or thought owning slaves was pleasing to God!”
Dammit, and he sounded like he was off to such a good start. And what the fuck is this bullshit about "abortions affecting minorities"?? Abortions are something you do VOLUNTARILY, not something that's forced on oppressed minorities. Abortion is racism?! What?! Is he trying to equate a voluntary medical procedure with eugenics?? Make it make sense! Ugh, if only I wasn't reading this before my morning cup of coffee because there is no morning coffee or any other caffeinated beverage for me because caffeine makes me puke.
There was a time in one country when abortions were not voluntary. When morons use the term “pro-abortion”, I assume they are referring to a situation where a government compels a woman to have an abortion against her will. The conversations that follow are amusing.
And there were a number of countries where sterilisations weren't voluntary, where government powers decided that some people weren't allowed bodily autonomy.
I had the same instinct and Googled the church. The pastoral Southern accent and delivery and, quite frankly, his age, tripped my sensors that the full sermon and/or others probably wouldn't live up to the clip as it was presented, but I didn't follow up and watch the whole sermon. Glad you did, Hemant.
Good call my friend! ☺️ 🇨🇦
🎼We don’t need another (fake) hero🎼
“There has never been a Christian nation and never will be! You don’t live in one now!”
I’ll give him this.
“A Christian nation wouldn’t have killed and displaced 20 million Native Americans, or thought owning slaves was pleasing to God!”
He don’t know Christianity, do he? I mean, Christian leaders have always gone into colonizing. Missionaries are all about killing natives and keeping slaves along with the saving their souls. What does he think the proscriptions against LGBTQ and abortion is? Policies that are known for causing more death than they stop, make life more difficult for everyone and destroy economies that support the people over oligarchs. Texas’ abortion ban caused the maternal mortality rate to jump 50+% in a year. LGBTQpeople without support have a seriously high suicide rate, because his religion has decided to bully them. This is what Christianity is.
Pastor Livingston could stand to read his Bible a little bit more closely, especially Exodus 21 and Leviticus 25. Not only is his god approving of slavery, he tells you how and in what way to enslave your fellow human beings.
Cafeteria Christianity strikes again.
For that matter, the first passage you cite lays out the penalties for a man who injures or kills a pregnant woman. The penalties for injury to the woman follows one schedule but the penalty for death of the unborn child is not the same, and is along the lines of a property damage fine. So his Bible does not see the deliberate death of a fetus AT THE HANDS OF AN ATTACKER as that big of a deal. Like stealing a donkey.
Of course, this is a heinously sexist position, but it's one of the few places where the Bible talks about the topic at all.
This is the Bible Law that some ignorant people would like to see implemented.
100%
👆🎯
Does he realized that the 80 million unborn babies that were "murdered" mostly were miscarried and likely all white (if I'm not mistaken)?
Thank you SO VERY much for raising the issue of SPONTANEOUS abortion, which is the medical term. It is beyond humane, criminal really, to put women in the medically precarious, and ridiculous situation of waiting until there’s no heartbeat detected to provide lifesaving medical care until women are literally at death’s door. And for some women, rendering them infertile. The vast majority suffering an impending spontaneous abortion are devastated because the pregnancy was desperately wanted. Governor Greg Abbott I’m looking at you, you absolutely horrible and criminal excuse for a human being. 🇨🇦 The other issue is that these so-called “pro life” creatures, cosplaying human beings are really just pro birth - that is their only mission is to make sure every pregnancy is carried to term. Then you’re on your own. That is anything BUT pro life! Oh, and, many of these people have the resources or obtain abortions when it suits them. The hypocrisy is monumental! 😖😵💫😣🇨🇦
Without a brain there is no person. End of story.
And we all know the nervous system is one of the last to develop.
Pro-forced birth Pro-life was always a marketing slogan.
https://www.printmag.com/political-design/the-semiotics-of-a-movement-how-pro-life-became-a-marketing-campaign/
"In the months before the Supreme Court ruled on Roe v. Wade, the Willkes published How to teach people the pro-life story, a modern-day sales manual on how to effectively market the movement. It was a play-by-play on how the Willkes communicated pro-life arguments so that other speakers might follow their lead. As described in the book, they never showed visuals of embryos less than six weeks old because “the audience may change their minds from their conviction that this is a human life.” They began their lectures with pictures of babies nearing full-term and subsequently moved through the fetal development process in reverse chronological order, asking the audience with each image: is this still a human? Their intention, as explained in the book, was to start with a picture that resembled a human to anchor the audience in the belief that they were looking at a living, breathing person."
Thanks for this additional information. While l hadn’t known that bit, I hafta say I’m not at all surprise.
I watched it all unfold, from the segregation issue getting their voters to vote, then Bobby Jones segregation academy, temporarily losing their tax-free status, to Billy Graham taking Evangelism into the mainstream, Then Graham sucking up to every president who would let his anti-semitic posterior in the White House, seeking political power. They were not against abortion then, it was a Catholic thing as you know.
Then the only issue they tested that got their voters riled enough to vote was...abortion! So they hired consultants and sold their fables and...here we are. We are now at lest two, if not three, generations downstream, and they think their religion has this as a "long-held belief. No, it was made up in my lifetime!
Just so sick!
Yes. It helps no one, and hurts everyone. I remember roughly 18 years after Roe the crime rates went down.
I've been an abortion rights activist for 40 some years. Yes, abortion is more prevalent among minorities. That's because minorities are more likely to be unable to financially or practically support an unexpected child. It has nothing to do with racist doctors and activists wanting black and brown people to kill their babies; it has to do with a racist system that keeps black and brown people down.
Same-sex is perverted, huh? Livingston ignores the fact that it is xtian clergy that keep making headlines for their perverse actions involving children.
That is why they teach "forgive AND forget", but especially the line "turn ye other cheek." which simply means look away.
Look away and forget about it or I'll send you to hell.
Turn the other cheek=Show your ass.
More like "spread your cheeks".
🤢Sad butt true.🤮
OwossoHarpist linked to this in the last thread. I gave Livingston 1/2 credit for “There has never been a Christian nation, and never will be. You don’t live in one now. A Christian nation wouldn’t have killed and displaced 20 million Native Americans, or thought owning slaves was pleasing to God.”
Here the reason. The first sentence is ok if he is talking about just the USA. Lots of Nations have had a state religion based on some flavor of christianity.
Here's where the big deductions come. A lot of the killing and displacement took place during colonial times when they were governed by a divinely (supposedly) chosen king. Also, the god of the bible ordered mass murder and was aok with slavery.
Now I'll read Hermant's article.
I've written something along the lines before and I'll repeat it here (I'll probably write something similar on future occasions).
I live in a state which has got an established church. The church of England is the established church, so much so that the head of state is also the head of the church. Which might satisfy the criteria for a 'christian nation', or at least some of them.
And yet ... there's way less performative christianity around. Politicians don't mention god on a daily basis, there are no references to 'thoughts and prayers' on a frequent basis, it is just very different.
The pastor meant his kind of Christian, so the UK doesn't count to him. But he loves him some bagpipes.
I see the irony. But here in the U.S., Christianity, especially the evangelical stripe, is big business.
More xtian nationalists. If you still belong to any sect of the cult, you are supporting this.
OT- Is there 𝘢𝘯𝘺𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 that ambulatory condom commerical of a man won't cheat at? https://apnews.com/article/falorin-balogun-suspension-world-cup-e5a5cab5731a916808601be93cb36832
Chumpty Dumpty leaned on FIFA to lift a suspension on one of Team USA's players, because 𝘰𝘧 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘴𝘦 𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘪𝘥. I hope our team loses now. Not because I hate the players, mind- it's sportsball; I don't even know who they are- but because Cheetolini put his hamberder-greased thumb on the scales, and 𝘩𝘦 deserves to lose.
Two big red cards! One for the FIFA Peace Prize winner for using his trump card, and the other one for the corrupt FIFA big boss who suspended this US player's suspension.
Cheating is, and always has been part of his M.O.
This is really similar to the problem I had (still have) when I pointed out that Bergoglio (throne name, Pope Francis) was not the "good guy" that popular perception made him out to be. Every time, I'd ask if people knew about his history, and cared what his actual actions were. Most of the time, no, they didn't. Although lots of Argentines know about Bergoglio, USians mostly don't. They're conned by the media blitz. Which is why you need to take dumbassery like this preacher with a metric ton of salt. Thank you, Hemant, for doing exactly that.
Further Thought: Pastor Livingston, you're absolutely right in that we do not live in a Christian nation. Where you lose the thread is in suggesting that we should live in one. You have no guarantee that your particular brand of Christianity is going to be on top if we were to become such a nation. You might want to think about that.
Because it's pretty clear to me that you haven't.
Quote: "Pastor Livingston, you're absolutely right in that we do not live in a Christian nation. Where you lose the thread is in suggesting that we should live in one."
This!!
Thanks, Claudia!
This guy reminds me more than a little of Timothy Cardinal Dolan. I think Dolan tried to fool the crowd by glad-handing the public and coming across as a jovial representative of the Church, while maintaining largely conservative and doctrinal Catholic standards. Pastor Livingston is doing much the same here, making noises that sound great if you don't listen to the entire context. The problem, of course, is that Hemant listened to the whole thing, and heard it for what it is.
Hemant wasn't fooled, neither are we.
Gervais said it best, saying atheism is a religion is the same as saying not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour.
I haven't thought about this before, but what do bald people put on their driver license? Does it actually say bald? And how much gray do I need to have to change my color from brown? And what about folks who dye their hair? I have so many questions now. I better stop thinking about it or I won't be able to sleep.
It's literally the name "no gods"
Being an atheist doesn’t make me my own God. That’s just fucking stupid.
Then again, religious belief is very stupid.
One of those wolves in sheep's clothing, cynically promoted by haters in an effort to convince those who are a bit left leaning that the haters on the right aren't "so bad" They are. This is diabolical.
At least in this case, Professor Moriarty is not fooled.
“There has never been a Christian nation and never will be! You don’t live in one now! A Christian nation wouldn’t have killed and displaced 20 million Native Americans, or thought owning slaves was pleasing to God!”
Dammit, and he sounded like he was off to such a good start. And what the fuck is this bullshit about "abortions affecting minorities"?? Abortions are something you do VOLUNTARILY, not something that's forced on oppressed minorities. Abortion is racism?! What?! Is he trying to equate a voluntary medical procedure with eugenics?? Make it make sense! Ugh, if only I wasn't reading this before my morning cup of coffee because there is no morning coffee or any other caffeinated beverage for me because caffeine makes me puke.
Maybe we ought to sic Matt Dillahunty or Aron Ra on him and see how well he defends his positions!
There was a time in one country when abortions were not voluntary. When morons use the term “pro-abortion”, I assume they are referring to a situation where a government compels a woman to have an abortion against her will. The conversations that follow are amusing.
And there were a number of countries where sterilisations weren't voluntary, where government powers decided that some people weren't allowed bodily autonomy.
Yes many women of color had been sterilized against their will, in Alabama, I believe it was. An artist there made a monument to them.
Are you referring to China?
Jina!