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The Moonface Kid's avatar

Uh, correct me here if I am wrong...but wasn’t the founder of the Mormons a grifting, predatory con artist? So, isn’t this kind of baked into their whole deal? Like, the original tenet of it was all about having a harem of 12 year old girls while their parents gave you their money?

Why does this nonsense continue in the 21st century? Why do adults fall for this crap? And believe me, I’ve fallen for some scams - but never something so shockingly stupid.

Anyone find the invisible gold plates yet?

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Sko Hayes's avatar

It's probably because of the algorithms, but on TikTok, I see a lot of ex-Mormons talking about the abuse- of wives, of children. There's a huge community there.

It seems like (anecdotes and data apply here) more and more people are waking up and getting out.

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Holytape's avatar

As for the gold plates, you just have to use logic. Gold is money and time is money. Therefor, gold is time. And since time is invisible, thus gold and money are invisible. Thus the gold plates are invisible. And for further proof, look at my wallet. It is not empty, but filled with invisible money.

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Lynn James's avatar

Same here. I am rich with invisible money, ha, ha.

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Lynn James's avatar

That's pretty much the story of all religions, including evangelical Christianity. Virgin birth, water into wine, raising the dead,. Oh please. Golden tablets and seer stones are rank amateurs compared to the nonsense and deadliness of Christianity, with its bloody history of genocide and hate, based on Bronze Age fairy tales stolen from other tribes. And no, it has NOT gotten better over time.

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Runfastandwin's avatar

He made it up because he was banging his secretary and his wife found out.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Sexual abuse, coverup, destruction of evidence. They're all CRIMES, crimes which deserve the attention of law enforcement and the judicial system. Yet they AREN'T and why? Because RELIGION, that's why.

This pattern has repeated itself in more variations than I could hope to count and more times than I could guess at, while the organizations I cited above do NOTHING.

THIS. HAS. GOT. TO. 𝗦𝗧𝗢𝗣.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

“The abuse of a child or any other individual is inexcusable. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes this, teaches this, and dedicates tremendous resources and efforts to prevent, report and address abuse.“

Unless we pinky swear not to say anything.

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larry parker's avatar

No backsies.

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Robert Jaffee's avatar

“The abuse of a child or any other individual is inexcusable. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes this, teaches this, and dedicates tremendous resources and efforts to prevent, report and address abuse.”--Mormon Church

In their Twitter or X response, the Mormon Church says it dedicates tremendous resources to reporting abuse. To whom exactly?

Isn’t this the whole point for which they are being accused? Refusing to report abuse, and in reality, dedicating tremendous resources in order to silence the abused, and protect the church by any and all means necessary?

Religious institutions are the greatest grift ever unleashed on man. Tax exempt organizations, with money, power and the resources to fleece their flock, and abuse its constituents at will.

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Sko Hayes's avatar

Reporting to church LEADERS so the LEADERS can cover it up. All cults are like this- protect the LEADER at all costs.

Oh, the sexual predator has been kicked out of the church, free of any connection to people who know he's a sexual predator.

Has this man had to register as a sex offender, or is the secular community he is assumably living in now ignorant of his past?

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John R Hoffman's avatar

Do Mormons report the abuse of the church by shouting into a hat?

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Robert Jaffee's avatar

Good question, any thoughts?...:)

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Maltnothops's avatar

The Sorting Hat perhaps?

Child abuser? “Slytherin!”

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cdbunch's avatar

I think the hat slides down and contracts around the neck until the abuser stops moving.

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Maltnothops's avatar

From your lips to God’s…. No, no, that isn’t what I want to say.

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Whitney's avatar

My parents tried for years to convince me that the Christian church, as a whole, does more good for the public than harm. Reading articles like this never convinced them otherwise, either, they always claimed that these were exceptions rather than the rule. That position they had always made me wonder just how many good works for the public it took to balance out the sexual abuse of a child in their eyes.

This is, to me, the single most nauseating attitude out of the modern-day Christian church as a whole: the idea that the 'church' is more important than the people it's supposed to be helping, and indeed, that it is completely acceptable to abuse the vulnerable for the sake of the church itself. It's become very clear that the membership of the various churches aren't going to do at thing to stop this behavior on the part of their leadership, and indeed, will cover it up whenever possible to 'save' the church.

My opinion, then, is that the Christian church cannot die fast enough, and with a little luck, in abject poverty and disrepute thanks to their own actions. May the harm they've done return to them ten thousandfold.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

When their charity is conditioned and not freely given, when their actions are focused on the bottom line, and when their tax burden is pawned off on the communities, you can’t tell me there’s a good that comes from the church. What folks believe is the good feelings they get from going to church outweigh the harm the church causes. The majority of their charity is just an ad campaign directed at the folks most vulnerable to it, not altruistic giving. The programs they sponsor or create tend to have corruption at the heart of it, ie every at risk youth camp.

I don’t see what religion does that is truly charitable, but the folks who go can’t see the faults. We are at an impasse.

And what price do you put on a raped child? An abused and beaten child? A dead child at the hands of the religious? An evenings meals for the homeless? (The ones willing to sit through a sermon to be fed). A year’s worth? At what point does the conscience relieve the guilt for the lifetime of pain for the child?

And many policies and dogma all the churches promote actually create some of the issues in our society. Bans on contraception enables poverty, it makes poverty grow. Patriarchal gender roles interfere in alleviating that poverty. How many soup kitchens have to be constructed before somebody realizes this isn’t working, there has to be something done to address the systemic policies that create the hungry. But when churches get involved in politics, they demand the state look to them for the solutions but provide band aids and take taxpayer money. Up charge for services the state has done better with, and add arbitrary rules to limit who gets help and who can give help. Then when lobbying doesn’t get them what they want, they install their clergy to do it directly. Run for office to ensure every sperm results in another child they refuse to care for, or that no LGBT person can care for an otherwise unwanted child, or the addicted never really get the help they need. It’s almost like they need society to suffer to exist. Like they have to actively undermine real charity so the suffering and vulnerable will flock to their doors. And what do they do with these folks? They fleece them and abuse them and molest their children. There isn’t a service the church provides that cannot be better provided by a secular organization (including the government).

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Matri's avatar

𝐴𝑛𝑑 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑝𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑒 𝑑𝑜 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑝𝑢𝑡 𝑜𝑛 𝑎 𝑟𝑎𝑝𝑒𝑑 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑑?

According to the Mormon Church, $300k.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

That’s the price the church put on it, I was asking the lay folks who attend and excuse the church because of all the good it does. How many charitable acts does it take to pay off the guilt of a molested child? One, two, a hundred, a million? Is there truly a balance for the crimes the churches commit? Especially the Mormon church. The war it declared, the child brides it stole, the molestations, the abuse, the theft and hoarding of people’s charitable contributions, all have to be balanced out with that type of thinking. What does one child’s innocence cost to the conscience of the average Mormon? It seems like it’s just the feeling of ecstasy from attending a service. To me, it’s not enough.

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Lynn James's avatar

👏👏👏👏 Well said!!!!!!!

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Bagen Onuts's avatar

I bow and tip my hat...

Thank you

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Joe King's avatar

$300K to destroy evidence? In addition to the abuse, isn't that also a crime?

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

"Bribery" comes to mind. Also "Conspiracy to destroy evidence."

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Joe King's avatar

It's a felony in Idaho, max 5 years and $10K.

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oraxx's avatar

Once again we are treated to yet another example of the disconnect between religion and morality. The LDS church appears determined to preserve that squeaky-clean, wholesome facade at all costs. The victims of sexual abuse by church members are just collateral damage, and the cost of doing business. Churches tend to be self perpetuating bureaucracies where money trumps morality every day of the week.

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RegularJoe's avatar

The clergy exemption should parallel attorney-client and therapist-patient privilege. Crimes aren't exempted.

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Len Koz's avatar

I remember when I was a kid in Catholic school a priest was explaining how confession worked to us. And I distinctly remember someone asking if the priest you confessed to was supposed to keep quiet even if you confessed to a murder. The priest explained that priests are still supposed to offer such a person absolution but they also should "urge" the person to turn themselves into the police. Later on I even heard some priests remark that they could use the carrot of absolution to get the person to confess to the police, i.e., withhold absolution until the person turned themselves in.

Of course, none of those priests ever had the person seeking absolution in the examples be a priest...

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Lynn James's avatar

Of course.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

That a priest should even enjoy the 𝘴𝘢𝘮𝘦 degree of privilege with their clients as a doctor, a therapist, or a lawyer is already ridiculous- giving them 𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘳 privilege is downright stupid.

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cdbunch's avatar

Well, they claim to be just as capable of giving life/marriage/sexuality/gender identity advice as a therapist, so why shouldn't they be held to the same standard?

Excuse me for the projectile vomit.

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Joe King's avatar

Why aren't clergy mandatory reporters? Oh yeah, Christian Fucking Privilege.

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Richard Wade's avatar

Can some believer please explain to me again how only their religion can make someone moral...? ...?

...I'll wait.

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cdbunch's avatar

Because morality is unquestioning obedience to God enforced by fear of a spanking.

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Lynn James's avatar

Bring a blanket, a pillow, and a cooler full of provisions. You'll wait a long time and still not get an answer.

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Kay-El's avatar

OT: Gift article. Wisconsin Trump electors settle lawsuit, agree Biden won in 2020 https://wapo.st/3R4FKwK

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Remember back when black people couldn't hold the priesthood within the Mormon Church? Barbara Walters interviewed Donny and Marie Osmond and broached the subject of racism in their religion. Here's the 'outspoken' Donny weaseling an answer, eventually declaring "It's the Lord's Will" (Marie talks about women being submissive and letting the men speak for them)

https://youtu.be/QuSde2jGhm8

This would all eventually change after the interview. What caused the change in policy? Why, it was yet another very convenient 'revelation.'

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

A "revelation" that came JUST as the LDS church was about to lose their tax-exempt status BECAUSE of their bigotry against blacks!

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NOGODZ20's avatar

As Church Lady would say: "Well, how conveeeeeenient."

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Lynn James's avatar

Riiiiight. Racism is the Lord's will. How convenient.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

OT - DeNazi is a Florida Man

𝐑𝐨𝐧 𝐃𝐞𝐒𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐬 𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐭𝐡𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐨 ‘𝐟𝐥𝐚𝐭𝐭𝐞𝐧’ 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐁𝐚𝐡𝐚𝐦𝐚𝐬 𝐢𝐧 𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐚 𝟗/𝟏𝟏 𝐬𝐭𝐲𝐥𝐞 𝐚𝐭𝐭𝐚𝐜𝐤 𝐨𝐧 𝐅𝐨𝐫𝐭 𝐋𝐚𝐮𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐝𝐚𝐥𝐞

And I think to myself as Governor of Florida, if we had, if someone in the Bahamas was launching missiles into Fort Lauderdale, we would not accept that for a minute,” DeSantis vowed. “We would go in and we would flatten them in no time certain.”

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/645260-ron-desantis-flatten-bahamas/

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larry parker's avatar

The Bahamas are already pretty flat.

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

I made that observation weeks ago. The highest point is something like 200 feet.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

The highest point in my county (Pinellas) is 110 feet (34 m). 345 feet (105 m) is the highest in the state.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

When I lived in south Florida, the highest point in the region was the top of a landfill called Mount Trashmore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Trashmore_(Florida)

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larry parker's avatar

We have a Mt. Trashmore in Cedar Rapids, IA.

There are also ones in Virginia Beach and Evanston, Illinois.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

We used to have a landfill called Toytown.

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

Will you take us to Mount Trashmore?

Will you take us to Mount Trashmore?

Will you take us to Mount Trashmore?

Will you take us to Mount Trashmore?

https://media4.giphy.com/media/3o6MblseqXxRTZ9jKE/giphy.gif

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Application error: a server-side exception has occurred (see the server logs for more information).

Digest: 4124308395

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NOGODZ20's avatar

My city is built on 7 hills, just like Rome and San Francisco. The highest point is the rather aptly name High Point in West Seattle (512 feet). The lowest is up on Capitol Hill (440 feet).

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

Looking down at you all from 6100 ft.

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cdbunch's avatar

Is it snow all year around or just 9 months?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

You are Stephan Pastis' Wise Ass on the Hill?

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Do you have a Tarpeian Rock too ?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

We have the Denny Regrade

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regrading_in_Seattle

Scroll down until you come to the photo of Denny Regrade No.1 in progress in 1910

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cdbunch's avatar

Ocean property in Florida.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Both are Gulf coast.

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cdbunch's avatar

Still underwater in 50 years.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

His run for POTUS is getting flattened.

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Len Koz's avatar

Can we just get him to stand in the middle of I-4 when the early morning crowd is heading for the Magic Kingdom?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

While that crowd sings the Mickey Mouse Club theme song.

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Len Koz's avatar

🤣

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cdbunch's avatar

In response to someone questioning Israel, I presume?

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cdbunch's avatar

Every time Israel's actions come up (not just in the latest conflict), I always want to remind people, one of the responsibilities of a friend (which presumably we are to Israel) is to tell you when you're being an asshole.

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Len Koz's avatar

WTAF?

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Joan the Dork's avatar

He didn't want to piss off one of the major voting blocs in Florida by openly fantasizing about flattening Cuba, which is much closer. Not quite as many people of Bahamian ancestry on the voter rolls, I guess.

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Sko Hayes's avatar

What he doesn't seem to understand is that the Israel/Gaza situation would be like a war between north and south Miami.

The Bahamas are 300 miles from the Florida coast.

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Die Anyway's avatar

Not quite so much. Only around 60 to Bimini and around 180 to Nassau.

Still, it's a bad analogy for DeathSentence to use. We haven't blockaded the Bahamas for 70 years nor gradually taken over their outer islands and planted the American flag. But... If we had, and if DeathSentence were a Bahamian, I bet he'd be out there lobbing missiles at the U.S..

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Sandra Carmen Marrujo's avatar

Am I missing something here? Aren't the Bahamas a British Commonwealth Country? I wasn't aware our ally, Charles III, had been threatening Florida. WTF is DeSantis talking about.?

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

It's about Israel/Hamas.

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Lynn James's avatar

He's just trying to stir up his idiotic base.

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Lynn James's avatar

The fucking Bahamas? This moron needs to be committed to a rubber room ASAP.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

“Claims that he confessed to a bishop prior to 2015 are false.”

“His communications with his bishop were protected by Idaho state law.”

Then further admission that he did indeed confess to the crime but they’re not responsible because technically they aren’t forced to do anything about it. This statement is evidence that you cannot trust the Mormon church. In the same breath they deny the confession, they admit to it. Not even couching their admissions with “even if he had confessed...” language.

Anyone else notice that the two women, one full on adult, needed a man to be there to advocate for them? Perhaps Alberti was there because he had some expertise, or Chelsea wanted a friend with her for moral support, but knowing the church, they might have needed a male there as an advocate because women do not have the same capacity for business according to the church. From the very beginning of the religion, women have been denied agency, and access to the class of positions held by men. While the church has created positions of power for women, focused on the service of women toward men, the cooking and cleaning and nurturing, never the real decision making of the church. And there’s still a culture of child males having more credibility and respect than their own mothers. Any woman who makes noises about being uncomfortable with that are summarily punished, often by excommunication. But they love and respect women, see they stopped doing the polygamy thing a while ago.

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cdbunch's avatar

Well, hell, Utah wanted to be a part of the U.S. (sweet federal tax money is my bet) and the U.S. wouldn't admit them with that tennent. Not that that has really stopped it. Just one *legal* wife, the others are just living with him and having his "bastard" children. (I really hate the idea that a child is somehow less because they don't have a legal father) Then there's the tendency toward coercion of under-age girls that has been a hallmark of the practice since Smith.

In general, I don't have a problem with an equitable n-way marriage. We need to work out the legalities of divorce in that situation, but otherwise, consenting 𝐚𝐝𝐮𝐥𝐭𝐬 do consenting adults

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

I worked with a girl out in Denver, she was 18 and getting married to her high school sweetheart. They were getting married at that age because they were Mormon and that is what happens (she was to prim to say so but it was because they wanted to do it I but weren’t allowed and she wanted a Temple wedding). Her husband was actually more than a year or so older than her. They’re still promoting child brides, but with more age appropriate husbands, for the most part.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

And Christians say unbelievers/LGBTQs pose a threat to children.

Every accusation is an admission.

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Anri's avatar

"The Church was protected by what’s known as the “clergy-penitent privilege,” allowing confessions to remain a secret no matter how damning they may be."

Here's your solution: "You may only seek absolution after facing earthly justice as well. Confess your crime to the authorities or remain unconfessed in the eyes of the church."

That would, of course, mean the church in questions actually wanting to do good and right wrongs.

Silly assumption, I suppose.

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