I've said many times that once one allows ONE irrationally into their perception processes, there is NO LIMIT on the number of irrationalities that can follow ... and religion is the perfect example of this principle.
I went to public schools, but got the brainwashing on Saturdays in catechism (catholic Sunday school.) In second grade, the year catholic kids make first communion, I got tossed out of catechism class repeatedly, and my parents were threatened that I would not be able to do first communion with my class. Because I had the temerity to (gasp!) ask questions. Like, "Where's heaven and where's hell?" The nun pointed to the ceiling and said "Heaven's up there", and pointed to the floor and said "Hell's down there." I didn't call her a liar, but I did observe that everybody and their dog knew the earth was round, and asked if hell was in Australia. That, plus showing off that iconic photo of John Glenn at the door of his Mercury space capsule, and saying that American and Russian spacemen hadn't seen heaven in space, got my ass tossed out of class. Yeah, I was a relatively mouthy 7-year-old kid, who read the daily newspaper.
I was extremely polite and studious child but I was forced to puzzle the contradictions out by myself. The few responses I got to questions were nothing more than pablum but then I had an epiphany. The day of my first communion while us kids were gathered together putting on our robes the retired priest made a comment that caused the mother in charge of us to say, “oh, don’t pay attention to father, he’s just being silly”. And that’s when I had the clarifying thought that all these god stories and lessons I was trying to make sense of were just that: silly stories. The stories about god were told to adults to manipulate them into behaving a certain way like the stories about Santa Claus were meant to get the kids to behave however the adults wanted us to behave. I was already well aware that declaration of faith was no assurance that an individual was a decent human being. So while I still didn’t have all answers I knew believing in god and especially the bible wasn’t going to provide them. I’d just have to figure how right from wrong on my own, picking up bits of wisdom wherever it appeared and subjecting it to rigorous analysis.
I attended Catholic school in 2nd and 3rd grade. I was a compliant and quiet child, but I asked questions, frequently. I learned to not ask questions in school after the second time the nun slapped the back of my hand with a ruler. It hurt. When I asked my Mom she told me to believe in God. So I tried to figure it all out by myself.
I believed this religion was cannibalistic because we ate the body of Christ during Communion. I seriously would have to keep myself from gagging when I received the bread or host. I believed Catholics hated a lot of people because only Catholics could go to Heaven, but I never understood what it was we were suppose to hate. Looking back, I often wonder why the nuns wanted me to not ask questions that would really have been easily answered.
Ah, that raises the question, since I was the same (as a child when most young girls wanted to a nurse or ballerina, I wanted to be a scientist, or an archaeologist, never could decide.)
Why we could clearly see through the tales full of holes, and supposedly mature adults could not?
I am an Norwgian, borned and raised in Norway. From 1st to 6th grade we had to visit a church sermon at school end right before jule-vacation (1,5 weeks), and before summer vacations (8 weeks ).
Now those who does not wan't visit church sermons can stay at school. Wich is stupid, they split up the pupils. Why can't their parents take them to church if they really want their kids to visit churces.
I've said the same about miracles. Once you claim a supernatural explanation for something, you can never say something else didn't happen or is impossible because it always could have been another miracle.
I see that as being exceptionally pernicious, since it disconnects the whole concept of cause and effect. At that point, reality has the potential for becoming exceptionally unreliable, or at least unknowable.
I frequently have people tell me science is just another religion and that we can't actually rely on it for anything because it's always changing. I ask if they have any better methods for trying to learn about the universe. I have yet to get a reply.
Science is a tool. An imperfect one, but the best we have. Changing? More like it is self-correcting. Science is as far from superstition as you can get.
I once had some racist clod on a Michael Shermer/Skeptic thread use that argument to try to rebut my science- and history-based points against his insistence that all humans come from five totally distinct races (and that it would be better if those remain distinct). I told him if he thinks science is useless because it changes as new evidence is discovered, then he totally, utterly fails to understand what science is.
(He then proceeded to dismiss all hyperlinks I provided to credible sources supporting my argument, on the grounds that ‘you can’t trust anything on the internet’. 🙄 )
And this is the same science that allows their phones and computers and cars to work, based in more fields of study and research than they can count. I shudder to think what level of science education (if any!) they've had!
I'm fine when someone limits their irrationality to themselves.
But with more and more threads lashing christianity to hate, binding it to the rejection of science, and weaving the love of money through it, there will only be one outcome and it won't be heaven on earth.
[To the christian lurkers] I'm okay with that being your (keyword) philosophy for handling life.
When your fiction spills over into politics, capitalism, the law and the unrelenting denigration of other people, that's well in problem territory. You're not trying to save me, you're trying to forcibly alter my thinking. christian messaging has been out there for 2,000 years, so it's not as if the entire world hasn't heard it. Your sudden interest in me isn't actually rooted in human connection, its about stoking your ego and "treasures in heaven." When I look back at 1,000 years of forcible conversion at the end of a sword and christian nationalists "preparing" for the end times when "the woke" gun-haters rise up and start a civil war, I know that the peace brought on by The Enlightenment is nearing its end. Preparing for war isn't peace, it's preparing for war which leads to war. When christians wipe out all opposition, they'll turn on each other to force doctrinal purity on each other. That's what preparing for war results in, some demagogue using amassed weapons because he can.
There is a verse about white-washed tombs. There are more today than there ever was in biblical times.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
But . . . but . . . that's from the bible. Atheists don't know the bible. They hate god. That can't even walk into a church without going up in torrents of flame.
Maybe. I certainly can't say it won't happen. (I haven't watched the video yet.)
What christians don't understand is just how bad things were at the time of America's founding. There were 4 major denominations, evangelicals being one, that didn't get along (the pilgrims were puritans the persecuted others until the tides turned against them). Everyone else was worshipping "wrong." The Founders understood that letting one of them gain the power of the gov't would tear the country apart, so the best option was none of them gaining Constitutional favor. Several of the Founders were also not christian, but not necessarily atheist (many were deists - there is a higher power, just not what was claimed by established religions).
Agreed, also the Founders understood the difference between a land mass and a country. Unlike many Christians and the imperialistic MAGA cult in the United States.
I would like to see some of these awesome progressive politicians rising up right now put the same amount of weight on the issue of education as they do healthcare. In fact, I would say education is possibly more important than everything which proceeds it.
In fact, all three of my friends who recently moved abroad (2 out of 3 to the country they came from) said their main reason was because they didn’t want their kids educated/raised here in this environment. I can’t blame them.
Thomas Jefferson saw public education as a pillar of democracy. It lifts people and nations out of the mire of ignorance.
That's why they attack public education. Sure, it's not without it's problems, but turning education into a commodity is not how to fix it. They have reduced public education to creating producer-consumers.
💯 And the problems in my opinion are that conservatives have been attacking and defunding public education (department of education) for decades and funneling that money into white Christian private schools. All so they can point at it and say, see it doesn’t work. Maybe we should have some sort of nationwide standards? Maybe there should be standards or qualifications for homeschooling as well?
Over time, I came to realize a few things, conservative think tanks put out lots of disinformation (not just about public education). I know I've absorbed a lot of it over the years and repeated it without scrutinizing any of it (just like AI and conservatives); until I started practicing critical thinking.
Information isn't about knowledge or facts, though, like some of the best lies, will include elements of those without the parts that don't fit the narrative being sold to the public, it's about the story.
For example: I learned that white people were "now" a minority. Whites were the majority minority, but less than 50% of the American population. Having access to information now, I looked that up. "Now," when I was told this, was 1978, I was 9 years old being told this by my friend. At that time, more than 80% of America was white. Where did my 9yo friend get this information? Most likely his parents and he was just repeating it. I won't say his parents were racist or conservative, I don't have enough data.
But I do know that we are full of ideas that did not originate with us. In the original definition of a "meme," think tanks put out information repeatedly for it to take hold and spread like a virus through the population. Hearing something repeatedly gives it more weight and more "truth." That's one of the insidious tricks performed by bad actors working to spread disinformation. That's why it's always important to fact check and use reliable information from reliable sources.
Definitely. I read a book (more like an academic dissertation) called American Public Education and the Responsibility of its Citizens: Supporting Democracy in the Age of Accountability by Sara Stitzlein. It talks about the problem of charter schools. Aside from christian schools feeding off the gov't teat and funnelling money into christian endeavors, it isn't beholden to any educational standards nor fiscal accountability. It's about profit. It's focused on capitalism, using capitalstic language in its promotional brochures (it's about creating producer-consumer, not education). When a charter school (or chain) collapses, the kids are then dumped back into the public education system which, by law, has to take them, further straining their budgets since the money for those children were withdrawn by the collapsed charter school. It's a very informative, if dry, read.
Homeschooling has no accountability. A coworker in Colorado was talking about homeschooling his kids in Colorado. Colorado requires that homeschooling parents are checked to ensure they are educating their children; they rely on a private entity of some type that "checks" (Asking the parent: "You good?" Parent: "Yeah." To the gov't: "They are meeting all requirements.") who then tells the state, "Yep. All good." (This was before I took an interest in education and didn't ask any questions.) Then, of course, there's the hidden abuse: https://hic.crhe.org/
Teaching creationism by itself isn't totally harmful. Yes, it does put the kids at a disadvantage when it's time for them to learn actual science, but the belief itself isn't necessarily going to harm the children. It is the racist and misogynist culture war nonsense that does the real harm. Presenting children with the Bible as the ultimate authority about everything and giving them 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 the far right interpretation will cause them much trauma when they encounter the real world.
The belief itself is harmful, though. Teaching that 'faith' in the absence of evidence is a virtue is extremely harmful and is a major contributor to the problems we're now facing.
It is that whole Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) worldview. Girls are married off in their early teens and are nothing but chattel. Their whole existence is supposed to be as a domestic slave and to pop out kids as fast as possible.
But even that horrible old testament states that an individual human life begins with the first breath, and that the existing life, I.e. the woman, takes precedence over the potential life.
I understand why you come to that conclusion given how the pro-life movement is doing its best to make it impossible for women to have an abortion by changing the laws. I do not support that approach which causes many pro-lifers on other sites to give me grief. My thought is that pro-lifers ought to instead be concentrating on changing hearts and minds, providing alternatives to abortion and effective and long lasting support to the women and children.
How do they respond when you suggest comprehensive sex education, widespread easily obtainable contraception, and a robust social safety net, the things that have been demonstrated to reduce abortion rates? In my experience, they are not interested in such things. In fact, many of them falsely believe that contraception IS a form of abortion, that teaching comprehensive sex education will lead to more premarital sex, and that any social safety net is just encouraging laziness and people just living off the government. They don't want to see the data which shows just the opposite.
And sex education and family planning and availability of contraceptives and a social safety net..
They’re not going to change anybody’s hearts and minds, David, until they change their own. I still remember nearly 60 years ago the anti-abortion campaign in Hawaii. They sure did love showing their bloody baby parts. They love to showing all the blood and gore, except that you could’ve had that much blood and Gore from a heart surgery or a bad accident. But they weren’t trying to ban either accidenta or hearts. They wanted to excite disgust and revulsion. That was their game plan.
Personally, I think they loved the blood and gore. If
That should tell you everything you need to know. The truth is 80% of Americans don’t want the government involved in decisions about their pregnancies at any point.
And the fact that they are calling most contraceptives "abortifacients" which is in no reality-based world true, reveals their zealotry, and medical ignorance. They should not be near any levers of power, as they are hateful, as they are ignorant, and are causing much harm to the community. I much prefer the "live and let live" christians.
It'd be nice if the god-botherers kept their noses out of others' medical concerns, unless they're footing the entire bill and providing all the support.
That will never happen. The whole premise of the forced birth movement is that women's reproductive functions belong to men. The acorn equals tree fallacy is a smokescreen to cover this fact. Government interference in women's reproductive healthcare, when implemented in real life, serves ZERO purpose except to force one religion’s belief on the whole country, to the detriment of women and their families.
"Pro-life" Christians support Trump and his administration murdering ALLEGED drug smugglers supposedly smuggling drugs into America (fun fact: even if these people are indeed guilty of that crime, murdering drug smugglers is still murder).
Bailey talks about people suffering under a popular Democratic governor in his state (would love to see some credible citations for his claims) while ignoring the fact that his party is doing irreparable harm nationwide under a madman.
The people of Illinois aren't suffering under Gov. Pritzker. They did suffer greatly when ICE came to town. So Mr. Pro-Life Bailey - do you support what ICE did while in your state? Please don't tell us that ICE was there to round up dangerous and violent criminals.
And when they pull out the "What came before the Big Bang?" line, I've found that the best retort is, "I don't know, neither do all the cosmologists who have been studying it for decades. And neither do you." They can wail about their god all they want, but them's the facts.
In 2026, belief in creationism requires the rejection of overwhelming scientific evidence. We should expect our elected officials, at a minimum, to recognize reality and respect evidence. They make decisions that affect public health, the environment, education, and our personal and collective well-being.
Religious freedom protects everyone’s right to hold and practice religious beliefs. It does not entitle public officials to substitute those beliefs for established facts when governing the rest of us.
“Bailey: It’s absolute nonsense. So Illinois is suffering with high expenses, with our safety. Our schools are failing and he’s focused on everything else besides that because he’s focused on running for president.”
The Illinois schools are ranked 13th according US News and World Report
How is that failing? Top half of the country seems decent to me.
Then let’s talk about why any state is suffering from high expenses, shall we. Could it be the federal policies the orange turd has put in place based on Project 2025? The lack of infrastructure investment (or because that investment was rescinded because it was Biden who implemented it), tariffs, lack of food regulations, lack of staffing in the fields and the trucking industry based on the autocratic immigration policies, and just the general lack of federal support over a personal political beef from Trump. Giving the state over to the GOP will not alleviate the issues he brought up, since the issues are inherent in the GOP platform and the lack of any competency to actually govern on the part of any GOP candidate/elected official.
Pritsker is going to use any tactic he can to win this election, and the easiest way to do that is to question your credibility, and it’s working. It may feel like mudslinging to you, but it is valid criticism. It also highlights all your problematic beliefs in a lighthearted way. While believing that dinosaurs were heavy lifting cranes for early man may not be that big of a deal, when folks look into that they will find the big deal beliefs like women shouldn’t work outside the home/have their own income, and what you feel about LGBTY people. Your answers do not help you keep those issues hidden, it just makes the population more curious about your stance on everything. So the tactic is a good one.
He complains about education and says we should be looking at the public school curriculum but then doesn’t want to talk about the curriculum the school he founded is using. 🤦♀️
He looked at Jones' work and thinks slavery is okie-dokie so long as the masters were allegedly "kind?"
Great. Then lets kidnap him and put him to work in the fields for no pay. Let him feel the sting of the whip if his production falls off or he protests or tries to escape. So long as they feed him well, no problem. Right?
They’re the same people who thought being told they couldn’t shop in a store without putting a mask on during the pandemic = outrageous and unconstitutional loss of freedom (but forcing women to carry any/every pregnancy to its natural end, whatever that may be, is good and righteous, because ‘God’s plan’).
If this horrific timeline we’re on isn’t a wake up call to any sane person in the USA, then we will continue down this path of total destruction. Time to speak up and criticize without fear. We need to stop this indoctrination at its source (education). No more excuses for the abuse of children in the name of Christianity. No more conscience clauses in medicine. TAX these MF out of existence!
Isn't that what all those trump appointed Supreme Court judges said just before they were confirmed? We all know what that means then don't we?
"Were you there?" – That's the stupidest response ever. Does this guy not believe in anything unless he was "there"? Ridiculous even by Christian standards.
The belief itself is harmful. Teaching that 'faith' in the absence of evidence is a virtue is extremely harmful and is a major contributor to the problems we're now facing.
Indeed, it IS harmful, because it leads into unreality. Unreality can be comforting and reassuring ... right up to the point where it collides with reality. Depending on the nature of the collision, the consequences can be anything from vanishing to minor to cataclysmic.
I suspect Bailey’s Christianity is more political convenience than actual belief, which would explain his irritability any time he faces questions about it. He just pretends to believe because that’s what his base expects. He’s just smart enough to be embarrassed by having to fake a sincere belief in such bogus bullshit.
Possibly, but he may truly believe the creationist nonsense. He dodges the questions because he wants to hide his ignorance and try to get people to blame Democrats for the Republican mess.
This video is technically unrelated to the topic at hand but, it does show just how much right-wing influencers fake their belief for the money : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-N6XRhqXf0
"political convenience" Agreed, try to win any major political office or position anywhere in the United States without claiming to believe in an invisible deity or some crazy mythical religion.
There was a time when I would have felt bad about attacking someone on this, but I have come to realize that accepting one false belief is a gateway.
It teaches you that science is a lie. That education is a lie.
And that opens you up to every other false belief currently infecting our nation.
I've said many times that once one allows ONE irrationally into their perception processes, there is NO LIMIT on the number of irrationalities that can follow ... and religion is the perfect example of this principle.
Thinking is a choice.
A decision that not all make wisely.
Excuse me, I do have to go let my velociraptors out for a walk.
You need a christian education. EVeryone knows velociraptors fly.
My parents tried the Christian (Catholic) thing with me.
I stopped believing when I started asking questions, around 2nd/3rd grade.
Questions to teachers who knew "everything" right.
Nuns sent me to the priest who did no better at keeping me in the flock.
The nun who was my "science" teacher called me an instigator.
Made me look it up and then I agreed.
They lost me entirely with god hardening pharaoh’s heart. I didn’t believe in it much by 12, but that one killed it for me.
LOL. Don't get me started please. 😂
I went to public schools, but got the brainwashing on Saturdays in catechism (catholic Sunday school.) In second grade, the year catholic kids make first communion, I got tossed out of catechism class repeatedly, and my parents were threatened that I would not be able to do first communion with my class. Because I had the temerity to (gasp!) ask questions. Like, "Where's heaven and where's hell?" The nun pointed to the ceiling and said "Heaven's up there", and pointed to the floor and said "Hell's down there." I didn't call her a liar, but I did observe that everybody and their dog knew the earth was round, and asked if hell was in Australia. That, plus showing off that iconic photo of John Glenn at the door of his Mercury space capsule, and saying that American and Russian spacemen hadn't seen heaven in space, got my ass tossed out of class. Yeah, I was a relatively mouthy 7-year-old kid, who read the daily newspaper.
Hooray for you, still laughing here. 😂
"It's called faith because it's not knowledge." - Christopher Hitchens
I was extremely polite and studious child but I was forced to puzzle the contradictions out by myself. The few responses I got to questions were nothing more than pablum but then I had an epiphany. The day of my first communion while us kids were gathered together putting on our robes the retired priest made a comment that caused the mother in charge of us to say, “oh, don’t pay attention to father, he’s just being silly”. And that’s when I had the clarifying thought that all these god stories and lessons I was trying to make sense of were just that: silly stories. The stories about god were told to adults to manipulate them into behaving a certain way like the stories about Santa Claus were meant to get the kids to behave however the adults wanted us to behave. I was already well aware that declaration of faith was no assurance that an individual was a decent human being. So while I still didn’t have all answers I knew believing in god and especially the bible wasn’t going to provide them. I’d just have to figure how right from wrong on my own, picking up bits of wisdom wherever it appeared and subjecting it to rigorous analysis.
@Hyder Simpson
Agreed.
Well played as the youngster you used to be.
What was the comment from the priest?
Wisdom is always well sought and best retained.
BTW - I plan on naming my next dog "RIP". 😉
I attended Catholic school in 2nd and 3rd grade. I was a compliant and quiet child, but I asked questions, frequently. I learned to not ask questions in school after the second time the nun slapped the back of my hand with a ruler. It hurt. When I asked my Mom she told me to believe in God. So I tried to figure it all out by myself.
I believed this religion was cannibalistic because we ate the body of Christ during Communion. I seriously would have to keep myself from gagging when I received the bread or host. I believed Catholics hated a lot of people because only Catholics could go to Heaven, but I never understood what it was we were suppose to hate. Looking back, I often wonder why the nuns wanted me to not ask questions that would really have been easily answered.
Ah, that raises the question, since I was the same (as a child when most young girls wanted to a nurse or ballerina, I wanted to be a scientist, or an archaeologist, never could decide.)
Why we could clearly see through the tales full of holes, and supposedly mature adults could not?
I am an Norwgian, borned and raised in Norway. From 1st to 6th grade we had to visit a church sermon at school end right before jule-vacation (1,5 weeks), and before summer vacations (8 weeks ).
Now those who does not wan't visit church sermons can stay at school. Wich is stupid, they split up the pupils. Why can't their parents take them to church if they really want their kids to visit churces.
Archaeologists are scientists.
They were discouraged from seeing, they chose not to see, they saw but didn’t know how to think about what they didn’t understand.
Velociraptors don’t fly.
It is Tyrannosaurs.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b3c2eafdd2cbde624a0e36a397d9add3bf424cdb79720eea5d7972d5ba8ede16.png
Who am I to argue with science?
😉
So, should I discourage flight among my "flock"?
🤣😂🤣
I've said the same about miracles. Once you claim a supernatural explanation for something, you can never say something else didn't happen or is impossible because it always could have been another miracle.
I see that as being exceptionally pernicious, since it disconnects the whole concept of cause and effect. At that point, reality has the potential for becoming exceptionally unreliable, or at least unknowable.
I frequently have people tell me science is just another religion and that we can't actually rely on it for anything because it's always changing. I ask if they have any better methods for trying to learn about the universe. I have yet to get a reply.
Science is a tool. An imperfect one, but the best we have. Changing? More like it is self-correcting. Science is as far from superstition as you can get.
𝐹𝑎𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑠𝑜𝑛.
-- Ken Peters, winner of the 2009 Center for Inquiry Blasphemy Contest
I once had some racist clod on a Michael Shermer/Skeptic thread use that argument to try to rebut my science- and history-based points against his insistence that all humans come from five totally distinct races (and that it would be better if those remain distinct). I told him if he thinks science is useless because it changes as new evidence is discovered, then he totally, utterly fails to understand what science is.
(He then proceeded to dismiss all hyperlinks I provided to credible sources supporting my argument, on the grounds that ‘you can’t trust anything on the internet’. 🙄 )
And this is the same science that allows their phones and computers and cars to work, based in more fields of study and research than they can count. I shudder to think what level of science education (if any!) they've had!
He's merely following sage advice.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ba/9d/86/ba9d8653b148197f6b33999a290dcfcf.jpg
I'm fine when someone limits their irrationality to themselves.
But with more and more threads lashing christianity to hate, binding it to the rejection of science, and weaving the love of money through it, there will only be one outcome and it won't be heaven on earth.
[To the christian lurkers] I'm okay with that being your (keyword) philosophy for handling life.
When your fiction spills over into politics, capitalism, the law and the unrelenting denigration of other people, that's well in problem territory. You're not trying to save me, you're trying to forcibly alter my thinking. christian messaging has been out there for 2,000 years, so it's not as if the entire world hasn't heard it. Your sudden interest in me isn't actually rooted in human connection, its about stoking your ego and "treasures in heaven." When I look back at 1,000 years of forcible conversion at the end of a sword and christian nationalists "preparing" for the end times when "the woke" gun-haters rise up and start a civil war, I know that the peace brought on by The Enlightenment is nearing its end. Preparing for war isn't peace, it's preparing for war which leads to war. When christians wipe out all opposition, they'll turn on each other to force doctrinal purity on each other. That's what preparing for war results in, some demagogue using amassed weapons because he can.
There is a verse about white-washed tombs. There are more today than there ever was in biblical times.
Matthew 23:27-28 NIV
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
What!?!?!?!?
But . . . but . . . that's from the bible. Atheists don't know the bible. They hate god. That can't even walk into a church without going up in torrents of flame.
"they'll turn on each" Agreed, IMO the United States as a country will eventually split into several smaller American countries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmGfSa2gfXQ
Maybe. I certainly can't say it won't happen. (I haven't watched the video yet.)
What christians don't understand is just how bad things were at the time of America's founding. There were 4 major denominations, evangelicals being one, that didn't get along (the pilgrims were puritans the persecuted others until the tides turned against them). Everyone else was worshipping "wrong." The Founders understood that letting one of them gain the power of the gov't would tear the country apart, so the best option was none of them gaining Constitutional favor. Several of the Founders were also not christian, but not necessarily atheist (many were deists - there is a higher power, just not what was claimed by established religions).
Agreed, also the Founders understood the difference between a land mass and a country. Unlike many Christians and the imperialistic MAGA cult in the United States.
God Bless America?🤔
I would like to see some of these awesome progressive politicians rising up right now put the same amount of weight on the issue of education as they do healthcare. In fact, I would say education is possibly more important than everything which proceeds it.
In fact, all three of my friends who recently moved abroad (2 out of 3 to the country they came from) said their main reason was because they didn’t want their kids educated/raised here in this environment. I can’t blame them.
This!!!!
Thomas Jefferson saw public education as a pillar of democracy. It lifts people and nations out of the mire of ignorance.
That's why they attack public education. Sure, it's not without it's problems, but turning education into a commodity is not how to fix it. They have reduced public education to creating producer-consumers.
💯 And the problems in my opinion are that conservatives have been attacking and defunding public education (department of education) for decades and funneling that money into white Christian private schools. All so they can point at it and say, see it doesn’t work. Maybe we should have some sort of nationwide standards? Maybe there should be standards or qualifications for homeschooling as well?
On a broader note ...
Over time, I came to realize a few things, conservative think tanks put out lots of disinformation (not just about public education). I know I've absorbed a lot of it over the years and repeated it without scrutinizing any of it (just like AI and conservatives); until I started practicing critical thinking.
Information isn't about knowledge or facts, though, like some of the best lies, will include elements of those without the parts that don't fit the narrative being sold to the public, it's about the story.
For example: I learned that white people were "now" a minority. Whites were the majority minority, but less than 50% of the American population. Having access to information now, I looked that up. "Now," when I was told this, was 1978, I was 9 years old being told this by my friend. At that time, more than 80% of America was white. Where did my 9yo friend get this information? Most likely his parents and he was just repeating it. I won't say his parents were racist or conservative, I don't have enough data.
But I do know that we are full of ideas that did not originate with us. In the original definition of a "meme," think tanks put out information repeatedly for it to take hold and spread like a virus through the population. Hearing something repeatedly gives it more weight and more "truth." That's one of the insidious tricks performed by bad actors working to spread disinformation. That's why it's always important to fact check and use reliable information from reliable sources.
👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆🎯
Definitely. I read a book (more like an academic dissertation) called American Public Education and the Responsibility of its Citizens: Supporting Democracy in the Age of Accountability by Sara Stitzlein. It talks about the problem of charter schools. Aside from christian schools feeding off the gov't teat and funnelling money into christian endeavors, it isn't beholden to any educational standards nor fiscal accountability. It's about profit. It's focused on capitalism, using capitalstic language in its promotional brochures (it's about creating producer-consumer, not education). When a charter school (or chain) collapses, the kids are then dumped back into the public education system which, by law, has to take them, further straining their budgets since the money for those children were withdrawn by the collapsed charter school. It's a very informative, if dry, read.
Homeschooling has no accountability. A coworker in Colorado was talking about homeschooling his kids in Colorado. Colorado requires that homeschooling parents are checked to ensure they are educating their children; they rely on a private entity of some type that "checks" (Asking the parent: "You good?" Parent: "Yeah." To the gov't: "They are meeting all requirements.") who then tells the state, "Yep. All good." (This was before I took an interest in education and didn't ask any questions.) Then, of course, there's the hidden abuse: https://hic.crhe.org/
I agree with you completely.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/38654b5561ea3e847a731d5a74a867a1f2a8c5ec8549cce22edf35711c074de8.jpg
"infecting our nation" Agreed, and the religious and combined political dogma that insists everyone believes in the same. Sad and embarrassing.
In God We Trust? 🤪
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑏𝑜𝑜𝑘𝑠 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑡𝑒𝑎𝑐ℎ 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑠𝑙𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑜𝑤𝑛𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑒𝑛𝑠𝑙𝑎𝑣𝑒𝑑 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑖𝑡’𝑠 ℎ𝑎𝑟𝑚𝑓𝑢𝑙 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑤𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑛 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑘𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑐𝑒.
Teaching creationism by itself isn't totally harmful. Yes, it does put the kids at a disadvantage when it's time for them to learn actual science, but the belief itself isn't necessarily going to harm the children. It is the racist and misogynist culture war nonsense that does the real harm. Presenting children with the Bible as the ultimate authority about everything and giving them 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 the far right interpretation will cause them much trauma when they encounter the real world.
The belief itself is harmful, though. Teaching that 'faith' in the absence of evidence is a virtue is extremely harmful and is a major contributor to the problems we're now facing.
Pro-life gun nut. Guess he doesn't see the contradiction in his stances.
No contradiction there. He's just too cowardly to admit that "pro-life" = forced pregnancy.
Probably never met a war he didn't love and believes in the death penalty
Looking at his bio, I'm not seeing any record of uniformed service. Even Miss Lindsey wore the uniform......Air Force, Graham was a jag off.
Bailey never served. Besides the HoR gig, he's a full-time farmer.
Guess we shouldn't be surprised that he knows how to spread shit around.
It is that whole Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) worldview. Girls are married off in their early teens and are nothing but chattel. Their whole existence is supposed to be as a domestic slave and to pop out kids as fast as possible.
Yes like a human Pez dispenser, one even said: women were the holes, other people come out of.
We are finally finding out what percentage of the population is composed of outright misogynists!
Doug Wilson, senior pastor of Christ Church in Idaho, said during the interview with CNN that, "Women are the kind of people that people come out of."
https://www.npr.org/2025/08/09/nx-s1-5497226/women-pastor-pete-hegseth-vote
Those members of Faith-healing churches are some sick and enculted creeps. I suspect it is a branch of Munchausens by Proxy.
Yes, I wondered about the similarities as well.
But even that horrible old testament states that an individual human life begins with the first breath, and that the existing life, I.e. the woman, takes precedence over the potential life.
Maybe, but that is not the way the Talibangelicals see it…
True, unfortunately.
I understand why you come to that conclusion given how the pro-life movement is doing its best to make it impossible for women to have an abortion by changing the laws. I do not support that approach which causes many pro-lifers on other sites to give me grief. My thought is that pro-lifers ought to instead be concentrating on changing hearts and minds, providing alternatives to abortion and effective and long lasting support to the women and children.
How do they respond when you suggest comprehensive sex education, widespread easily obtainable contraception, and a robust social safety net, the things that have been demonstrated to reduce abortion rates? In my experience, they are not interested in such things. In fact, many of them falsely believe that contraception IS a form of abortion, that teaching comprehensive sex education will lead to more premarital sex, and that any social safety net is just encouraging laziness and people just living off the government. They don't want to see the data which shows just the opposite.
Thanks Joe ;)
Many of them respond, unfortunately, exactly in the way you describe.
And sex education and family planning and availability of contraceptives and a social safety net..
They’re not going to change anybody’s hearts and minds, David, until they change their own. I still remember nearly 60 years ago the anti-abortion campaign in Hawaii. They sure did love showing their bloody baby parts. They love to showing all the blood and gore, except that you could’ve had that much blood and Gore from a heart surgery or a bad accident. But they weren’t trying to ban either accidenta or hearts. They wanted to excite disgust and revulsion. That was their game plan.
Personally, I think they loved the blood and gore. If
They aren’t interested in changing hearts and minds, only that you conform. I think you already understand this.
Some pro-lifers are but I would say that much of the leadership pushes changing laws instead of hearts and minds.
That should tell you everything you need to know. The truth is 80% of Americans don’t want the government involved in decisions about their pregnancies at any point.
And the fact that they are calling most contraceptives "abortifacients" which is in no reality-based world true, reveals their zealotry, and medical ignorance. They should not be near any levers of power, as they are hateful, as they are ignorant, and are causing much harm to the community. I much prefer the "live and let live" christians.
It'd be nice if the god-botherers kept their noses out of others' medical concerns, unless they're footing the entire bill and providing all the support.
Proselytizers are nothing but insane bullies. They want to control everyone else. Or else.
That will never happen. The whole premise of the forced birth movement is that women's reproductive functions belong to men. The acorn equals tree fallacy is a smokescreen to cover this fact. Government interference in women's reproductive healthcare, when implemented in real life, serves ZERO purpose except to force one religion’s belief on the whole country, to the detriment of women and their families.
"Pro-life" Christians support Trump and his administration murdering ALLEGED drug smugglers supposedly smuggling drugs into America (fun fact: even if these people are indeed guilty of that crime, murdering drug smugglers is still murder).
And even drug smugglers are still entitled to due process and a trial, not just being blown up to make the stupid old racists happy.
"into America" All of America including the United States. 🤔
They’re not shooting fetuses, ya know.
Bailey talks about people suffering under a popular Democratic governor in his state (would love to see some credible citations for his claims) while ignoring the fact that his party is doing irreparable harm nationwide under a madman.
It's the usual deal: make bold but baseless assertions and assume everyone will take them as fact. Sorry-not-sorry, Bailey, that don't work with us!
The people of Illinois aren't suffering under Gov. Pritzker. They did suffer greatly when ICE came to town. So Mr. Pro-Life Bailey - do you support what ICE did while in your state? Please don't tell us that ICE was there to round up dangerous and violent criminals.
Nazis are harmed by not being able to be as openly horrid as they'd like, what with people drawing attention to their shenanigans.
“𝑊𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒?” 𝐵𝑎𝑖𝑙𝑒𝑦 𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑑.
Hey Bailey! Ken Ham wants his line back.
When a Creationist utters the words "Were you there?" the automatic response is "No, and neither were you."
And when they pull out the "What came before the Big Bang?" line, I've found that the best retort is, "I don't know, neither do all the cosmologists who have been studying it for decades. And neither do you." They can wail about their god all they want, but them's the facts.
We tell them: “Time didn’t begin until after the Big Bang.”
Well, to be fair, I forgot to hit the Go button until a few nanoseconds after the initial pop. My bad.
The Big Chill.
(It was pretty cool.😉)
Yes...yes I was. Were you there to disprove my presence? 😉
In 2026, belief in creationism requires the rejection of overwhelming scientific evidence. We should expect our elected officials, at a minimum, to recognize reality and respect evidence. They make decisions that affect public health, the environment, education, and our personal and collective well-being.
Religious freedom protects everyone’s right to hold and practice religious beliefs. It does not entitle public officials to substitute those beliefs for established facts when governing the rest of us.
Sadly, legal qualifications for public office do not include being INTELLIGENT.
“Bailey: It’s absolute nonsense. So Illinois is suffering with high expenses, with our safety. Our schools are failing and he’s focused on everything else besides that because he’s focused on running for president.”
The Illinois schools are ranked 13th according US News and World Report
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education
How is that failing? Top half of the country seems decent to me.
Then let’s talk about why any state is suffering from high expenses, shall we. Could it be the federal policies the orange turd has put in place based on Project 2025? The lack of infrastructure investment (or because that investment was rescinded because it was Biden who implemented it), tariffs, lack of food regulations, lack of staffing in the fields and the trucking industry based on the autocratic immigration policies, and just the general lack of federal support over a personal political beef from Trump. Giving the state over to the GOP will not alleviate the issues he brought up, since the issues are inherent in the GOP platform and the lack of any competency to actually govern on the part of any GOP candidate/elected official.
Pritsker is going to use any tactic he can to win this election, and the easiest way to do that is to question your credibility, and it’s working. It may feel like mudslinging to you, but it is valid criticism. It also highlights all your problematic beliefs in a lighthearted way. While believing that dinosaurs were heavy lifting cranes for early man may not be that big of a deal, when folks look into that they will find the big deal beliefs like women shouldn’t work outside the home/have their own income, and what you feel about LGBTY people. Your answers do not help you keep those issues hidden, it just makes the population more curious about your stance on everything. So the tactic is a good one.
He complains about education and says we should be looking at the public school curriculum but then doesn’t want to talk about the curriculum the school he founded is using. 🤦♀️
He looked at Jones' work and thinks slavery is okie-dokie so long as the masters were allegedly "kind?"
Great. Then lets kidnap him and put him to work in the fields for no pay. Let him feel the sting of the whip if his production falls off or he protests or tries to escape. So long as they feed him well, no problem. Right?
The people who poo-poo slavery have ZERO idea what it is to utterly lose one's agency.
They’re the same people who thought being told they couldn’t shop in a store without putting a mask on during the pandemic = outrageous and unconstitutional loss of freedom (but forcing women to carry any/every pregnancy to its natural end, whatever that may be, is good and righteous, because ‘God’s plan’).
Why are you evil atheists trying to judge a man on the basis of his beliefs and character, instead of his skin color?
I blame Biden.
Sorry about being rational.
If this horrific timeline we’re on isn’t a wake up call to any sane person in the USA, then we will continue down this path of total destruction. Time to speak up and criticize without fear. We need to stop this indoctrination at its source (education). No more excuses for the abuse of children in the name of Christianity. No more conscience clauses in medicine. TAX these MF out of existence!
End rant
https://youtu.be/cxXD51SGUOk
I don’t agree with the not voting sentiment here, but a great perspective on just how long Americans have felt hopeless and without real options.
All Americans including the those in the United States.
"TAX these MF out of existence!" Agreed, also "tax the fucken churches!"
Frank Zappa -1980🤔
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLVUHknb-Is
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Young earth creationist types are swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool.
You mean they actually know how to swim?!?
Wading?
Presuming that they know how to put one foot in front of another! 🤪
🎵You put one foot in front of the other
And soon you'll be walkin' 'cross the flo-o-or
You put one foot in front of the other
And soon you'll be walkin' out the door 🎵
Slime pool.
The pool has been drained.
You misspelled slime.
I had to leave the e off because e is for evolution.
(Thanks, fixed.)
Which needs chlorination.
"Full Armor Christian Academy"
I prefer the Half-Plate Hindu Collegium.
Full Uniform Christian University.
ETA (in case people don’t get it):
FUC-U
Dinosaurs and humans together? What would Bailey think of this?
youtu.be/ZHOWnLetNhM
Teach the controversy!
Documentary?
Since Bailey wasn’t there, how does he know that this wasn’t the case? ;)
"abortion is a settled issue"
Isn't that what all those trump appointed Supreme Court judges said just before they were confirmed? We all know what that means then don't we?
"Were you there?" – That's the stupidest response ever. Does this guy not believe in anything unless he was "there"? Ridiculous even by Christian standards.
The belief itself is harmful. Teaching that 'faith' in the absence of evidence is a virtue is extremely harmful and is a major contributor to the problems we're now facing.
Indeed, it IS harmful, because it leads into unreality. Unreality can be comforting and reassuring ... right up to the point where it collides with reality. Depending on the nature of the collision, the consequences can be anything from vanishing to minor to cataclysmic.
Personally, I prefer to deal with reality.
I suspect Bailey’s Christianity is more political convenience than actual belief, which would explain his irritability any time he faces questions about it. He just pretends to believe because that’s what his base expects. He’s just smart enough to be embarrassed by having to fake a sincere belief in such bogus bullshit.
Possibly, but he may truly believe the creationist nonsense. He dodges the questions because he wants to hide his ignorance and try to get people to blame Democrats for the Republican mess.
Indoctrination: it's one hell of a drug!
Also, he founded a Christian school using BJ curriculum so either he believes it or he thinks it will be a good grift.
Would he really have bothered to found a private school that teaches exactly that if he himself doesn’t really believe it? I wouldn’t think so.
In my view, that makes him even worse.
This video is technically unrelated to the topic at hand but, it does show just how much right-wing influencers fake their belief for the money : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-N6XRhqXf0
"political convenience" Agreed, try to win any major political office or position anywhere in the United States without claiming to believe in an invisible deity or some crazy mythical religion.
God Bless The USA! 🫡🤨🤪