Humans had been loving one another in all manner of ways for thousands of years before the Christian churches showed up and announced that henceforth they would be making the rules and would decide what constitutes love. I’m sick to death of people whose belief systems are based entirely on magical thinking and special pleading demanding to be deferred to at all times.
For sure. Like this is definitely a feel good story and I know that some people have an overwhelming desire to be part of a religion for various reasons, but Christianity is literally antithetical if you are a member of the LGBTQ community. The Bible and most churches are pretty clear about the rules they believe in. Even if I believe it is all bull.
What touched me was the commenter who said the loss of community was harder to process than leaving the belief system. If I didn’t already know how toxic religion is, that would have been a huge clue.
The purposeful shunning practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses is an extreme example of the dependency members have on an insular group, and why someone might be more than hesitant to express alternative viewpoints. Michael stands out in his bravery to be who he is, without apology, in the midst of all that.
Never heard of Avalon the xtian drek band, but I am a long time fan of the Roxy Music album "Avalon". I listened to as much as that song above as I could stand, and musically it is....crap (YMMV), and the singers look like zombie creepy Jesusbots.
As for the reactions cited, they're so close. They realize what utter shitty xtian weasels do to people, even their fellow travellers, but they're still in the cult, just a slightly less toxic version. C'mon guys, come to the side of reason and reality. We have cookies!
What he needs to do is watch his back. The christains will be gunning for him even more now. If he can salvage his career, Good for him. Personally I won't be listening to it. I don't care to waste my time with the substandard drek that passes for culture in the evilgenital petri dish.
I have a bunch of thoughts about this, because of course I do.
Congratulations to everyone involved for becoming better people. I’m not going to minimize that. Yet at the same time, there is a difference between:
1) I’m going to ignore that particular gospel bit of gospel conservative Christianity because I know people and it shouldn’t apply to them. It hurts and harms them, and I don’t like that.”
And…
2) the Bible might possibly have something to say about something that might possibly be homosexuality, at least as it might possibly have been understood a few thousand years ago by people thousands of miles and a universe away from us and thought, culture, knowledge, history, morality, philosophy, law, understanding. Over time, Social prejudice has been transformed into bedrock belief. That was wrong.
So good on them that they have transformed themselves. But bad on them that they’re not announcing the whole structure, merely claiming to be an exception to it.
I think it’s instructive to compare what happened to Passon, and what happened to Michael Tate. Passon decided to live his life in truth and he paid a price for it, but he was willing to pay it. Tate and the entire Christian music industry simply denied what they knew was going on and there has been a great deal of cost to a lot of people: Tate, the news boys, that guy who is a big wig in the Christian music industry, the victims of Tate, and on and on and on.
Passon chose to love himself. Eventually, his fellow travelers decided that he was worth loving as well. Tate chose to hate himself, hurt a lot of people, and drag them down with him. The Christian music bigwig is suing the people who exposed him. All the coverups we saw in the Catholic Church occurred with Tate. People knew about him, yet kept silent because of their own greed and desire for fame.
My point, and I do have one: the differences between love and corruption. And as I’ve said many times on these very pages, we can define corruption as becoming that which you hate. And these people are corrupt in spades, just like the church structures that cover-up child molestation, the religious people that excuse it, the religious people that try to blame it on people that are not committing all the child molestation. This corruption is spread so far that it has corrupted the Republican Party as well as professional Christianity. And that is why we have someone like Temussolini and his cohorts running this country…
As a counterpunch to xtian music, today is World Goth Day. Bring on Samhain, The Cure, Joy Divison, Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees. Alien Sex Fiend, Wolf Parade, Killing Joke and more (especially bands like Paradise Lost, Lords of the New Church, The Last Days of Jesus and Christian Death.
Christian love comes with an asterisk. It isn't just that only some people are worthy of love, to their thinking only some people are worthy. At all. Especially of care by their 'loving god.' What a damaging message to send to young people just coming to grips with their own identities and learning how to be in this world. That damage also applies to the wounded hearts of those who love their gay friends and family members but felt pressured to disavow them.
I'm glad that Michael Passons has healed and is sharing the true meaning of love with others who need healing, too.
Folks are so caught up in tradition and prejudices they were taught, they end up perpetuating the pain that past generations inflicted on others or them.
The more people who get liberated from this mindset, the better the world will be for everyone.
You've got to be taught before it's too late / Before you're six or seven or eight / To hate all the people your relatives hate / You've got to be carefully taught.
I remember the xtian hair metal band Stryper being criticized by fanatigelicals for "playing the Devil's music." Stryper was so incensed by this knuckleheaded criticism, they made their next LP completely secular. Not a mention of religion.
There's no hate like Christian love. I am concerned about the backlash from the fundies, and how many lawsuits this music reclamation will produce. Basically, who holds the copyrights and how many copyright holders are still deep in the bigotry.
This is a good trend, but it's going to take time.
Sometimes, it takes a while for others to catch up to a person who is out ahead of them. Michael Passons clearly had and has no problem in being both Christian and gay, but apparently, the rest of Avalon wasn't up to his level, at least not initially. This is par for the evangelical Christian course entirely too often. What is both surprising and pleasing is that Melissa Greene and Ty Herndon did indeed finally recognize the problem with their own attitudes and made amends.
This is not something we see very often in that community. It IS, however, very welcome.
Greene's statement, 𝐼 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑜𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑟𝑜𝑛𝑔 𝑠𝑖𝑑𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑖𝑚. 𝑇ℎ𝑎𝑡’𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑡ℎ, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝐼’𝑚 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑔𝑜𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑑𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑖𝑡 𝑢𝑝, demonstrates how real the change is for them. Evangelicals rarely truly own up to their mistakes. Usually they have to come out of evangelicalism to even accept that they made a mistake.
The question now is what the reaction will be from the evangelical Christian community. Greene and Herndon may be facing some blowback for their progressive and inclusive attitudes, but they sound more than strong enough to stand up to the noise.
Humans had been loving one another in all manner of ways for thousands of years before the Christian churches showed up and announced that henceforth they would be making the rules and would decide what constitutes love. I’m sick to death of people whose belief systems are based entirely on magical thinking and special pleading demanding to be deferred to at all times.
💯
Real love is loving a person completely without any conditions on that love!
Christian love = hate!
Perfect business model (JEEZ: NYSE)
Yeah, xtianity is antithetical to existence as a gay person.
Also
https://preview.redd.it/hank-hill-spreading-divine-truth-v0-ngh3nem4p6531.png?auto=webp&s=5856524fedec880b28fdfcd9e31b866689e4322f
For sure. Like this is definitely a feel good story and I know that some people have an overwhelming desire to be part of a religion for various reasons, but Christianity is literally antithetical if you are a member of the LGBTQ community. The Bible and most churches are pretty clear about the rules they believe in. Even if I believe it is all bull.
The Hank Hill meme is amazing 😂
The guy who gave us "King of the Hill" also gave us "Idiocracy,"
Mike Judge might be prescient.
Two things that should NEVER ever mix: Christianity and rock & roll 🤮
I was dragged to a Trans-Siberian Orchestra concert once and it was like a torture chamber. Never again
𝐵𝑢𝑡 𝑎𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑦𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑤ℎ𝑜’𝑠 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟 ℎ𝑎𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑑𝑒𝑎𝑙 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑡𝑒 𝑒𝑣𝑎𝑛𝑔𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑠 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑡𝑒𝑙𝑙 𝑦𝑜𝑢, 𝑙𝑜𝑣𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝑎𝑙𝑤𝑎𝑦𝑠 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑎𝑙 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑒𝑛𝑣𝑖𝑟𝑜𝑛𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡.
God's unconditional love (conditions apply).
"𝐼'𝑚 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑎𝑠ℎ𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑑 𝑜𝑓 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝐼 𝑎𝑚. 𝐼'𝑚 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑎𝑠ℎ𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑑 𝑜𝑓 𝑚𝑦 𝑗𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑛𝑒𝑦," ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑. "𝐼 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡 𝑤𝑖𝑠ℎ 𝐼 ℎ𝑎𝑑 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑜𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝐼 𝑎𝑚 𝑛𝑜𝑤 𝑠𝑜𝑜𝑛𝑒𝑟."
Welcome, Michael, to the real world, where love is love, and not the poor evangelical facsimile.
What touched me was the commenter who said the loss of community was harder to process than leaving the belief system. If I didn’t already know how toxic religion is, that would have been a huge clue.
The purposeful shunning practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses is an extreme example of the dependency members have on an insular group, and why someone might be more than hesitant to express alternative viewpoints. Michael stands out in his bravery to be who he is, without apology, in the midst of all that.
Never heard of Avalon the xtian drek band, but I am a long time fan of the Roxy Music album "Avalon". I listened to as much as that song above as I could stand, and musically it is....crap (YMMV), and the singers look like zombie creepy Jesusbots.
As for the reactions cited, they're so close. They realize what utter shitty xtian weasels do to people, even their fellow travellers, but they're still in the cult, just a slightly less toxic version. C'mon guys, come to the side of reason and reality. We have cookies!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6D_l6xQ0zU&list=RDm6D_l6xQ0zU&start_radio=1
The only Avalon I know of is Frankie. I only know about him because of the movie Grease.
I know about him because I was a teenager in the 60's. lol
It's a tropical isle.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MELWoiVGTTs
What he needs to do is watch his back. The christains will be gunning for him even more now. If he can salvage his career, Good for him. Personally I won't be listening to it. I don't care to waste my time with the substandard drek that passes for culture in the evilgenital petri dish.
“evilgenital”
Outstanding!
I have a bunch of thoughts about this, because of course I do.
Congratulations to everyone involved for becoming better people. I’m not going to minimize that. Yet at the same time, there is a difference between:
1) I’m going to ignore that particular gospel bit of gospel conservative Christianity because I know people and it shouldn’t apply to them. It hurts and harms them, and I don’t like that.”
And…
2) the Bible might possibly have something to say about something that might possibly be homosexuality, at least as it might possibly have been understood a few thousand years ago by people thousands of miles and a universe away from us and thought, culture, knowledge, history, morality, philosophy, law, understanding. Over time, Social prejudice has been transformed into bedrock belief. That was wrong.
So good on them that they have transformed themselves. But bad on them that they’re not announcing the whole structure, merely claiming to be an exception to it.
I think it’s instructive to compare what happened to Passon, and what happened to Michael Tate. Passon decided to live his life in truth and he paid a price for it, but he was willing to pay it. Tate and the entire Christian music industry simply denied what they knew was going on and there has been a great deal of cost to a lot of people: Tate, the news boys, that guy who is a big wig in the Christian music industry, the victims of Tate, and on and on and on.
Passon chose to love himself. Eventually, his fellow travelers decided that he was worth loving as well. Tate chose to hate himself, hurt a lot of people, and drag them down with him. The Christian music bigwig is suing the people who exposed him. All the coverups we saw in the Catholic Church occurred with Tate. People knew about him, yet kept silent because of their own greed and desire for fame.
My point, and I do have one: the differences between love and corruption. And as I’ve said many times on these very pages, we can define corruption as becoming that which you hate. And these people are corrupt in spades, just like the church structures that cover-up child molestation, the religious people that excuse it, the religious people that try to blame it on people that are not committing all the child molestation. This corruption is spread so far that it has corrupted the Republican Party as well as professional Christianity. And that is why we have someone like Temussolini and his cohorts running this country…
into the ground
As a counterpunch to xtian music, today is World Goth Day. Bring on Samhain, The Cure, Joy Divison, Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees. Alien Sex Fiend, Wolf Parade, Killing Joke and more (especially bands like Paradise Lost, Lords of the New Church, The Last Days of Jesus and Christian Death.
Magnificent darkeness!
I'll stick with Black Sabbath for my darkness.
https://youtu.be/PudybhN0gmM
For myself, my go-to continues to be Oregon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR7w-EUbLyI
Christian love comes with an asterisk. It isn't just that only some people are worthy of love, to their thinking only some people are worthy. At all. Especially of care by their 'loving god.' What a damaging message to send to young people just coming to grips with their own identities and learning how to be in this world. That damage also applies to the wounded hearts of those who love their gay friends and family members but felt pressured to disavow them.
I'm glad that Michael Passons has healed and is sharing the true meaning of love with others who need healing, too.
Folks are so caught up in tradition and prejudices they were taught, they end up perpetuating the pain that past generations inflicted on others or them.
The more people who get liberated from this mindset, the better the world will be for everyone.
You've got to be taught before it's too late / Before you're six or seven or eight / To hate all the people your relatives hate / You've got to be carefully taught.
youtu.be/VPf6ITsjsgk
I remember the xtian hair metal band Stryper being criticized by fanatigelicals for "playing the Devil's music." Stryper was so incensed by this knuckleheaded criticism, they made their next LP completely secular. Not a mention of religion.
Sometimes you just have to exercise that middle finger at a clueless audience! 🖕
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f41c29447aa7bdaba1562be99e4845e9e804c1ddf604798f91d0705cfbd74a01.jpg
Would love to see an all-LGBTQ Christian vocal quartet/quintet make evangelical heads explode.
Wouldn't surprise me if such a group were already out there.
𝐽𝑢𝑑𝑔𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑏𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑜𝑛𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑒, 𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ, 𝑝𝑙𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑦 𝑜𝑓 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑤𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑑 𝑏𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑚𝑒 𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑐ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑠 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑏𝑒𝑒𝑛 𝑤𝑎𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎 𝑙𝑜𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑖𝑚𝑒 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑟 𝑠𝑜𝑛𝑔𝑠 𝑙𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑖𝑛 𝑎 𝑏𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑥𝑡. “𝑇𝑒𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑓𝑦 𝑡𝑜 𝐿𝑜𝑣𝑒 (𝑀𝑖𝑐ℎ𝑎𝑒𝑙’𝑠 𝑉𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑖𝑜𝑛)” 𝑤𝑜𝑛’𝑡 𝑏𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑠𝑡 𝑟𝑒-𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑟𝑑𝑒𝑑 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛 𝑠𝑜𝑛𝑔 𝑤𝑒 ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑟. 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒’𝑠 𝑎 ℎ𝑢𝑔𝑒 𝑚𝑎𝑟𝑘𝑒𝑡 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑖𝑡.
There's no hate like Christian love. I am concerned about the backlash from the fundies, and how many lawsuits this music reclamation will produce. Basically, who holds the copyrights and how many copyright holders are still deep in the bigotry.
This is a good trend, but it's going to take time.
Sometimes, it takes a while for others to catch up to a person who is out ahead of them. Michael Passons clearly had and has no problem in being both Christian and gay, but apparently, the rest of Avalon wasn't up to his level, at least not initially. This is par for the evangelical Christian course entirely too often. What is both surprising and pleasing is that Melissa Greene and Ty Herndon did indeed finally recognize the problem with their own attitudes and made amends.
This is not something we see very often in that community. It IS, however, very welcome.
Greene's statement, 𝐼 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑜𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑟𝑜𝑛𝑔 𝑠𝑖𝑑𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑖𝑚. 𝑇ℎ𝑎𝑡’𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑡ℎ, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝐼’𝑚 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑔𝑜𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑑𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑖𝑡 𝑢𝑝, demonstrates how real the change is for them. Evangelicals rarely truly own up to their mistakes. Usually they have to come out of evangelicalism to even accept that they made a mistake.
The question now is what the reaction will be from the evangelical Christian community. Greene and Herndon may be facing some blowback for their progressive and inclusive attitudes, but they sound more than strong enough to stand up to the noise.
💯even if they come out of it, the not taking accountability part of it lingers on it seems (it can).