I live in Canada. Two provinces over from BC in Saskatchewan in a very rural area (I am an organic farmer)And I can tell you that having public prayers is just part of the culture here if you will. Not that it is right. Far from it. Every time I hear a 'let's bow our heads' I get right torqued. I obviously do not bow my head. Fuck that shit. Which has led to some really interesting discussions about being atheist and wether or not I am a 'good' person and why I don't feel threatened by some LGBTQ 'agenda' (I am not joking. Those are literally the two most important aspects to these people)So I feel like what has happened in BC is truly tremendous. Because if it's anything like here, it's more than just prayer, it's all the baggage that comes with it that is being rejected. And I respect that stand. Good job fellow humans!
I'm struck by this line: the constitution "grants each of us the liberty to do not what we want, but what we ought"
I mean the whole thing is terrible and mean and vindictive and power hungry and evil but for some reason this line struck me. I think its because it just completely dismisses other humans. So the only thing holding these monsters back from utter mayhem is the Constitution holding them accountable? So it's barely contained fury...and that is terrifying.
I think they should seriously consider this: "to have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it." (G.K. Chesterton)
It still blows my mind that goodness is associated with religion. But I supose when your belief tells you that everyone is inherently evil except by the grace of god...
...and that you can do all the bad stuff you want as long as you recite a magic formula before you die...yeah, not a lot of incentive to be virtuous in a system like that....
(Quick question....are you a farmer who raises organic crops or are you telling us that you are a carbon-based life form whose occupation is farming? 😉)
We humans are still tribal at heart, and when there's no real difference between us and what we perceive as some other tribe, we'll make crap up. Then we can blame our woes on Them, whoever They are. Race, gender, origin culture, sexual identity, religion or lack thereof...they're all just blame stand-ins for situations ranging from Stuff Happens to My Mistake Had Unfortunate Consequences to I Really Screwed Up And Won't Admit It.
I grew up in a household where the Thems were legion. 1960s-1970s, and everyone who wasn't straight, White, conservative, and not obviously engaging in sex outside of marriage was Them. In one of the most multicultural/multiracial cities on the US West Coast, with a thriving local women's rights movement and a thriving nascent gay community, that made for a whole lot of Thems! But I was taught, grades 1 through 12, by a bunch of liberal Catholic nuns for whom there were NO Thems, and I embraced that teaching under my parents' noses. (Yes, there were sins, behaviors that God opposed, but even so the person behaving so was not a Them.)
My high school dean could be a real firebrand on topics that mattered to her, but she was scrupulously fair. I can't imagine her disagreeing with discontinuing a ceremonial prayer that made Other of some citizens.
We're finalizing our report on prayers in BC municipalities right now and are hoping to have it out before the local elections there this fall. Keep up the good fight!
I read some parts in France country are, while conservative, less religious but it's probably due to the severe lack of priests and religious schools outside of cities.
I've never understood what these prayers were supposed to accomplish, because there isn't a shred of evidence to support the idea they are in any way beneficial. I think it is more about rote conformity and institutionalizing a sense of Christian privilege. It is never the job of a secular, democratic government to backstop anyone's religion.
As you say, there isn't a shred of evidence that prayers works. But those people believe in something there isn't a shred of proof to show it exists. Nothing. Nichts. Zero. So there's that.
Exactly; me neither. I don’t get why anyone perceives them as necessary and there’s so much variation in Christian doctrine — like who’s version of Christianity is being represented here and why? And how awkward…you’re free to go experience whatever religion you want, but that’s at your own initiative. You shouldn’t show up for some meeting in your area and have it turn into a religious experience you never signed up for.
+++ I have maintained for a long time that the staggering number of Christian tribes should be a bigger problem for believers than it is. It speaks to a divine being who could will the universe into existence, but when it came to the most important message imaginable couldn't make himself understood.
ha, I've argued along the same lines before and I don't know why this doesn't seem to dawn on the ones (usually the Evangelicals) who think they're the only group, out of everyone, that has God's message all perfectly figured out.
My hat's off to the British Columbia Humanist Association for their persistent and unflagging efforts to remove prayer from public meetings. That they see what's going on with their southern neighbor and are rightfully disturbed at the issues we're having with religious incursion tell me that they give a damn about the secular nature of their government and are willing to take strong action to deal with those issues.
Here's hoping that the BCHA can help deal with similar problems in the other provinces of our northern friends.
When prayers solve every world problem I might change my mind but until then just stop forcing the public to listen to you beseeching a nonexistent entity for favors. It’s embarrassing.
If it were truly efficacious the halls of St. Jude CRH would be empty, as would the other children's cancer wards across the country. I suspect even atheist parents have a moment where they give it a try.
It's true: Big Pharma employs an entire team of evil Christians who pray round the clock for children to get bone cancer, so that they can keep raking in Dactinomycin profits hand over fist...
Babbling nonsense words, believing that God is talking to you, or thinking grape juice is blood are all clear signs of mental illness...but if enough people do them together on a Sunday, they are rewarded with tax exemption.
Hey, give Jesus some credit. Just because he does nothing for Ukraine or starvation, he has a very valid excuse: there are car keys missing and parking spots to provide. Multi tasking can only go so far.
Some people believe that the bible is the word of god. Some believe Jesus was a co author. In fact, it was GHOST written. No sarcasm here.
The LäRD has to answer each prayer in the order it was received, so a lot of high school seniors need to get lucky before Ukrainian children can be saved....
Can we take a moment to appreciate that the first openly atheist candidate has become Britain's new Prime Minister. It's hard to even imagine that happening in this country. Congratulations, Prime Minister Starmer.
It’s not like the USA doesn’t have vibrant, active activist organizations that do this type of work. But our groups are being ignored and steamrolled even when they have a stellar track record in court. “Out of state activists are attacking our Christian heritage.” But then there’s the issue of our SCROTUS being completely corrupt and bought and paid for by Christian nationalists.
Good for Canada. The USA will take quite a bit more to fix.
This god of theirs has never shown the slightest inclination of helping anyone anytime anywhere. So why do they still insist on invoking its name? If it actually cared it would have put in a personal appearance at at least one meeting. It has not.
Bess Houdini tried for 10 years to get her husband to somehow return from the dead to show that there was an afterlife. Her attempts were met with silence from the beyond. She finally gave up and said "Ten years is long enough to wait for any man."
Ten years is not enough time for even the great Houdini to wriggle free of the chains of heck (I figure he wasn't bad enough for hell, but he may well have respawned in heck)🤔
Oddly, Harry Houdini was a great debunker of mediums.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the man who created the most literal detective in fiction, believed that two little girls had actually photographed faeries (later determined to be a hoax). He also conveyed supernatural powers on Houdini, even though the illusionist repeatedly told the author that all his escapes were done via purely physical means. They were tricks, nothing more.
It's so ironic that Conan Doyle -- whose detective was the very exemplar of rational empiricism -- was, in real life, prone to such fantastical vagaries.
No. Because most or too many people in that country truly believe they live in the best country that has ever existed on earth. Probably because many of them don't know much about the rest of the globe.
I don't know all that much about other countries (despite having a passport since 2017, to date, I've never left the country. Three guesses why I got a passport then and the first two don't count), but I do know the U.S. could be better, and as a citizen, I've got a responsibility to try to make it better. I have failed miserably and now for my health my plan is to give up.
Congrats to those that won on this . All I seem to hear know is I will sue , How about countries separation of church and state . thank you friendly great story
"Canadian : Southern Alberta is crazy religious and they have lots of religious communes and Mormon based towns"
"Canadian : That is interesting and I'm glad there are people looking out for our future. I wouldn't want to end up like those crazy Southern neighbors of ours 😂"
"Canadian : I strongly believe in separation of church and state. I don't think it tends to go very well when decisions are made based on the teachings of people who lived completely different lives in completely different times."
"Canadian : Also I get very annoyed but the hypocrisy and the choosing which aspects you choose to enforce. Things like hating homosexual people but giving adultery a pass for example."
And in Matthew 6:1, Jesus told his followers that if they made a public show of their faith that they would receive no reward from his/their father in heaven.
I live in Canada. Two provinces over from BC in Saskatchewan in a very rural area (I am an organic farmer)And I can tell you that having public prayers is just part of the culture here if you will. Not that it is right. Far from it. Every time I hear a 'let's bow our heads' I get right torqued. I obviously do not bow my head. Fuck that shit. Which has led to some really interesting discussions about being atheist and wether or not I am a 'good' person and why I don't feel threatened by some LGBTQ 'agenda' (I am not joking. Those are literally the two most important aspects to these people)So I feel like what has happened in BC is truly tremendous. Because if it's anything like here, it's more than just prayer, it's all the baggage that comes with it that is being rejected. And I respect that stand. Good job fellow humans!
Yet ask them what the LGBTQ 'agenda' actually is and where it can be accessed, they stutter and stammer.
We, on the other hand, can point them to THIS country's TRUE agenda "Project 2025."
Adding this for clarity.
An authoritarian dictatorship under old testament "law." A dictatorship where any difference is burned away, and diversity banished.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
I'm struck by this line: the constitution "grants each of us the liberty to do not what we want, but what we ought"
I mean the whole thing is terrible and mean and vindictive and power hungry and evil but for some reason this line struck me. I think its because it just completely dismisses other humans. So the only thing holding these monsters back from utter mayhem is the Constitution holding them accountable? So it's barely contained fury...and that is terrifying.
I think they should seriously consider this: "to have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it." (G.K. Chesterton)
The LGBTQI+ agenda in Canada is to augment the population of Russia. Too bad it failed, must be because of a dog and a bunch of nosy kids.
It was really only the one kid, one was as much a pet as the dog, the other two were there for eye candy.
Yeah, Velma usually solved the mysteries.
Okay, IIRC, Fred owned the van, so he was a little more than eye candy.
Okay. Eye candy with a wallet.
But he and Daphne coasted on Velma's cleverness.
It's the same old same old. Like it's 2024. Come on guys! Honestly. It's so frustrating. I feel like I'm living in the 1980's over here.
I hear you! At least the 80's were kind of fun...what I remember of them, anyway.
When people ask if you're a good person, remind them of all the horrors perpetrated in the name of Christianity.
It still blows my mind that goodness is associated with religion. But I supose when your belief tells you that everyone is inherently evil except by the grace of god...
+++ Some of the most mean-spirited and intollerant people I have ever known never missed church.
William Burroughs nailed in "A Thanksgiving Prayer"and church-going women with their mean, pinched, bitter, evil faces."
...and that you can do all the bad stuff you want as long as you recite a magic formula before you die...yeah, not a lot of incentive to be virtuous in a system like that....
Like this one for anyone they did not like.
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/449834408_1708545949931760_2064609493116827550_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=QGvHovFZ2skQ7kNvgEmChXc&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AYBPScBJVpkbvB4XmJKx30bedkYYge4qooT-LWViwfHoMA&oe=668E09B3
When their frankenpope constantly rails against Gay people, what else can you expect?
Good on ya!
(Quick question....are you a farmer who raises organic crops or are you telling us that you are a carbon-based life form whose occupation is farming? 😉)
Inorganic food is a bit rough on the digestive tract. 😉
The assumption that she's carbon-based is a bit elementist....
True...but that is the definition of "organic".
Raises organic crops. Lol. I was a little vague there wasn't I?
Nah...we just have a weird language. ;-)
We humans are still tribal at heart, and when there's no real difference between us and what we perceive as some other tribe, we'll make crap up. Then we can blame our woes on Them, whoever They are. Race, gender, origin culture, sexual identity, religion or lack thereof...they're all just blame stand-ins for situations ranging from Stuff Happens to My Mistake Had Unfortunate Consequences to I Really Screwed Up And Won't Admit It.
I grew up in a household where the Thems were legion. 1960s-1970s, and everyone who wasn't straight, White, conservative, and not obviously engaging in sex outside of marriage was Them. In one of the most multicultural/multiracial cities on the US West Coast, with a thriving local women's rights movement and a thriving nascent gay community, that made for a whole lot of Thems! But I was taught, grades 1 through 12, by a bunch of liberal Catholic nuns for whom there were NO Thems, and I embraced that teaching under my parents' noses. (Yes, there were sins, behaviors that God opposed, but even so the person behaving so was not a Them.)
My high school dean could be a real firebrand on topics that mattered to her, but she was scrupulously fair. I can't imagine her disagreeing with discontinuing a ceremonial prayer that made Other of some citizens.
We're finalizing our report on prayers in BC municipalities right now and are hoping to have it out before the local elections there this fall. Keep up the good fight!
Rural populations almost always tend to be more conservative and religious, it seems.
I believe this has to do with the lower education level in "country" areas.
I read some parts in France country are, while conservative, less religious but it's probably due to the severe lack of priests and religious schools outside of cities.
There's also this sense of tradition and continuation. No one wants to be the person in the family that breaks that. Heaven forbid.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d56736712cdc72966bb4c206b5ee385908e63ae24e255d27b58bd60aba4fa32e.jpg
And Stephen King thought HE was the Master of Horror.
He's certainly not the master of Science Fiction. Dreamcatcher and Tommyknockers were horrible.
Agree to differ. I enjoyed both.
The picture is missing a lap dog.
Your Prarie culture is so very similar to ours. Alberta reminded me of Texas, with oil and all the cosplay cowboy hats and such.
It's sometimes referred to as Little Texas. I lived in AB too. And it's....interesting. 😆
I've never understood what these prayers were supposed to accomplish, because there isn't a shred of evidence to support the idea they are in any way beneficial. I think it is more about rote conformity and institutionalizing a sense of Christian privilege. It is never the job of a secular, democratic government to backstop anyone's religion.
Virtue signaling to other members of the "flock". Same as people who wear MAGA hats.
MAGA is now almost synonymous with with religious control of fucking EVERYTHING.
Which opens the door to people who claim god talks right TO them! Think speaker of the house, Mike Johnson.
Yep.
Can I not think about him? He makes me queasy.
You are excused from further reflection regarding him. You understand perfectly the danger he & his ilk represent.
That no porn app that he advocates, where someone else moniters your screen is weird.
I hope every single atheist is anti-MAGA. If there are Republican atheists, I hope they are at least never-Trumpers.
I hear ya. Fingers crossed. (Like that’ll help, but I gotta do something.)
I'll say you gotta do something: you gotta receive Lisa the Rainbow Giraffe into your heart, is what you gotta do. (leaf be upon Her)
LOL!
Religion doesn't exactly rely on evidence.
Feeling good ? That way, if a problem arise that can't be resolved easily, it will be the fault of those who don't bray with the flock.
+++ The ability of prayer to make people feel better about themselves it a big part of it.
There's nothing like mumbling a few heartfelt words of supplication to an imaginary being to lift one's spirits....
And there you have it.
The family that brays together stays together....
As you say, there isn't a shred of evidence that prayers works. But those people believe in something there isn't a shred of proof to show it exists. Nothing. Nichts. Zero. So there's that.
+++ They stand as an example of what thinking people are up against.
Well said, and I can only add one thing: "Zilch".
Exactly; me neither. I don’t get why anyone perceives them as necessary and there’s so much variation in Christian doctrine — like who’s version of Christianity is being represented here and why? And how awkward…you’re free to go experience whatever religion you want, but that’s at your own initiative. You shouldn’t show up for some meeting in your area and have it turn into a religious experience you never signed up for.
+++ I have maintained for a long time that the staggering number of Christian tribes should be a bigger problem for believers than it is. It speaks to a divine being who could will the universe into existence, but when it came to the most important message imaginable couldn't make himself understood.
ha, I've argued along the same lines before and I don't know why this doesn't seem to dawn on the ones (usually the Evangelicals) who think they're the only group, out of everyone, that has God's message all perfectly figured out.
My hat's off to the British Columbia Humanist Association for their persistent and unflagging efforts to remove prayer from public meetings. That they see what's going on with their southern neighbor and are rightfully disturbed at the issues we're having with religious incursion tell me that they give a damn about the secular nature of their government and are willing to take strong action to deal with those issues.
Here's hoping that the BCHA can help deal with similar problems in the other provinces of our northern friends.
The fact that just across our northern border is a sane, sensible society is tremendously comforting to me....
If you want to be paid for braying, there is more than enough churches to join. Otherwise, do your fucking job ! 🙄
WELL PUT! 👍
When prayers solve every world problem I might change my mind but until then just stop forcing the public to listen to you beseeching a nonexistent entity for favors. It’s embarrassing.
If prayer was truly efficacious, the varying Christian sects would use it to wipe each other out.
If it were truly efficacious the halls of St. Jude CRH would be empty, as would the other children's cancer wards across the country. I suspect even atheist parents have a moment where they give it a try.
I wonder who is praying for the children to GET cancer? It seems to be working.
Big Pharma. Everyone knows they're only in it for the money.
It's true: Big Pharma employs an entire team of evil Christians who pray round the clock for children to get bone cancer, so that they can keep raking in Dactinomycin profits hand over fist...
Gregg ‘War Criminal’ Abbott? Sounds like something he’d do. Especially if it would gain him more money or power.
That argument has no legs to stand on.
That's almost as bad a joke as he is a person.
Lame.
IF prayer worked there would bbe very few people on the planet, and they would be slaves to one kkkrister.
The white supremacist accountant who did their taxes would be a bookkkeeper...
Yes please.
If only.
Trying yet another prayer vigil in Chicago to stop gun violence. smh
Doing the same thing over and over the exact same way each time and expecting a different result is the clinical definition of insanity.
Religious superstition is just mass insanity.
Babbling nonsense words, believing that God is talking to you, or thinking grape juice is blood are all clear signs of mental illness...but if enough people do them together on a Sunday, they are rewarded with tax exemption.
That's what black Protestant pastors do. Can you say Jesse Jackson?
Why take real action when you can call for prayer instead? Prayer ensures the status quo and reinforces the need for leaders who call for prayer.
Apparently you didn't get the memo: they're not just offering prayers...they're offering *thoughts* too.
Yeah. Suddenly it just became much, MUCH more powerful, didn't it...
http://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com/
So true!
Hey, give Jesus some credit. Just because he does nothing for Ukraine or starvation, he has a very valid excuse: there are car keys missing and parking spots to provide. Multi tasking can only go so far.
Some people believe that the bible is the word of god. Some believe Jesus was a co author. In fact, it was GHOST written. No sarcasm here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=887lax8LDDg
The LäRD has to answer each prayer in the order it was received, so a lot of high school seniors need to get lucky before Ukrainian children can be saved....
Can we take a moment to appreciate that the first openly atheist candidate has become Britain's new Prime Minister. It's hard to even imagine that happening in this country. Congratulations, Prime Minister Starmer.
Lots of UK Prime Ministers have been nonreligious or atheists! https://humanists.uk/2024/07/05/non-religious-prime-ministers-a-history/
Thanks! Was unaware of all these freethinkers.
I didn't know Starmer was an atheist. This is great news!
BRAVO for Canadians!!!
Now, if we in the US could grow a backbone & start confronting Religiou$ Fanatics!
Guns, and religion, our two biggest problem,s both relating to our country being built on slavery.
It’s not like the USA doesn’t have vibrant, active activist organizations that do this type of work. But our groups are being ignored and steamrolled even when they have a stellar track record in court. “Out of state activists are attacking our Christian heritage.” But then there’s the issue of our SCROTUS being completely corrupt and bought and paid for by Christian nationalists.
Good for Canada. The USA will take quite a bit more to fix.
While America wasn't paying attention, the right-wing shadow government was quietly shredding the Constitution....
This god of theirs has never shown the slightest inclination of helping anyone anytime anywhere. So why do they still insist on invoking its name? If it actually cared it would have put in a personal appearance at at least one meeting. It has not.
Bess Houdini tried for 10 years to get her husband to somehow return from the dead to show that there was an afterlife. Her attempts were met with silence from the beyond. She finally gave up and said "Ten years is long enough to wait for any man."
I don't know. I've been waiting for Ryan since 'Sabrina the Teenage Witch'.
Ten years is not enough time for even the great Houdini to wriggle free of the chains of heck (I figure he wasn't bad enough for hell, but he may well have respawned in heck)🤔
Oddly, Harry Houdini was a great debunker of mediums.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the man who created the most literal detective in fiction, believed that two little girls had actually photographed faeries (later determined to be a hoax). He also conveyed supernatural powers on Houdini, even though the illusionist repeatedly told the author that all his escapes were done via purely physical means. They were tricks, nothing more.
It's so ironic that Conan Doyle -- whose detective was the very exemplar of rational empiricism -- was, in real life, prone to such fantastical vagaries.
Can we do this for the country that is to the south and west of Canada?
No. Because most or too many people in that country truly believe they live in the best country that has ever existed on earth. Probably because many of them don't know much about the rest of the globe.
I don't know all that much about other countries (despite having a passport since 2017, to date, I've never left the country. Three guesses why I got a passport then and the first two don't count), but I do know the U.S. could be better, and as a citizen, I've got a responsibility to try to make it better. I have failed miserably and now for my health my plan is to give up.
But you try to find out about the rest of the world. And mind you, my country can be much better too.
I don’t believe that and never did. AND I’m an atheist! (I also unfortunately live here.)
I sometimes feel like Christianity is a dog that just can't stop marking its territory.
Congrats, BC Humanists, and keep up the good work.
My favorite invocation: “The meeting will come to order. Let’s get to work.”
Personally, I would like at least a cursory mention of my deity, Lisa the Rainbow Giraffe (leaf be upon Her), but I won't force it on others.
Congrats to those that won on this . All I seem to hear know is I will sue , How about countries separation of church and state . thank you friendly great story
En direct, ou presque, de Colombie Britannique.
"Canadian : Southern Alberta is crazy religious and they have lots of religious communes and Mormon based towns"
"Canadian : That is interesting and I'm glad there are people looking out for our future. I wouldn't want to end up like those crazy Southern neighbors of ours 😂"
"Canadian : I strongly believe in separation of church and state. I don't think it tends to go very well when decisions are made based on the teachings of people who lived completely different lives in completely different times."
"Canadian : Also I get very annoyed but the hypocrisy and the choosing which aspects you choose to enforce. Things like hating homosexual people but giving adultery a pass for example."
THIS.
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/449848477_1708540683265620_6375133466626967115_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=SjRYLY_ObR4Q7kNvgE6D8J1&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AYABTGl3hPMTw7-JgnoKIGt1dsy6WbbefnyPfrOMVuf-Lg&oe=668E037C
A religion with priorities so far out of whack doesn't deserve such a fine automobile.
I knew there was a reason I want to move there besides the fact I think the weather is better than Toronto's.
My friends live in a part of BC with a desert kind of weather, and I don't mean Antartica.
The Okanagan?
No sé. They live a couple of hours east of Vancouver.
British Columbia has very mild winters, especially if you are near the ocean, they get the pineapple current.
But how can the omniscient deity possibly know what you want and need if you don't tell them?
He knows what they want. He just likes to see them beg.
Out loud, in public.
(See also: Matthew 6:5)
And in Matthew 6:1, Jesus told his followers that if they made a public show of their faith that they would receive no reward from his/their father in heaven.
So THAT'S why it doesn't seem to work. God answers prayers but only if you do it exactly right. And no one has gotten it right yet.
The only prayers that work is the ones done by our pets.
Except for "Can we forget my quarterly shower, pretty please ?".
I mean come on, the guy is omniscient, sure...but it's not like he knows everything!
Well, thank god for that!