Well, folks are seeing the fruits of American Christianity and are reacting accordingly. There is no love there. Minimal kindness. Mostly anger. Mostly hate. Mostly a lust for power above all else, power to force others to obey them.
Thing is, those who want to use Christianity as a bludgeon against others, their shtick ain't working as well as it used to. Hell doesn't bother as many people as it used to (especially considering that it no more exists than Yahweh does!), and the idea of well being as a basis for morality is winning out against the carrot-and-stick routine that those churches like to use.
The word is on the street, and bully churches are taking it on the chin, because of that.
Christians tend to attribute all that's good with the world to their religion, while dismissing the many horrors perpetrated in the name of Christianity as the work of people who were not TRUE Christians. True Christians as defined by them, which is an extremely flexible standard.
That's due to the conditioning they've been subjected to for probably their whole lives.
It's like in Scientology; good things happen, hurray for the "tech." Bad things happen, you "pulled it in," or were a shit head in a former life.
Easy to recognise, very hard to break that way of thinking.
Sometimes, I'd tell Scientologists they were mentally conditioned, and they'd vehemently deny it. Then I'd say, "Do you just shit on the floor when you have to go?"
They'd of course say no.
"Do you use the bathroom instead?"
"Naturally."
"You've been mentally conditioned to use a toilet since you were a little kid."
I don't know if it made any of them think about it, but I kinda like to think so.
Yeah, reading, writing, arithmetic, social studies, biology, home economics... indoctrination. The horror of being taught basic skills to navigate contemporary society.
Don’t lump all Xtians together. Religion has always harbored angry psychotics and sadists, but in mainline Protestantism there’s plenty of good people doing actual teachings of Jesus. Even a lot of evangelicals have fled the GOP voting block for Madame President.
I never believed a word of that sky daddy stuff, but people who do don’t deserve to be slandered as the same as the con men and child rapists who use religion as tax proof grift. Or the nasty people who go to their “churches” (money laundering operations?)
A very solid majority of Americans are not conservative white Christians. Here is the data that demonstrates that fact. White Christian Nationalists know this and are doing everything they can to grab as much power as they can so they can keep the majority down. Even if you don't want to vote for Democrats, do it anyway since it is the only way to vote against the Project 2025 White Christian Nationalists.
The rats are sensing the corner closing in and they know it's now or never. If they don't fight now to secure their place of power and cash, there might not be another opportunity to regain that position of influence in the future.
Hemant, you have a talent for understatement! Those numbers aren't just amazing; they're downright STAGGERING. I'm not certain that the rise rate is shelfing off, either. There may be a point where the hardcore believers cause the graphs to plateau, but that may be a ways away yet. The seeds that were sown by Hitchens and Dawkins and Dennett and Harris, and then carried on by Aron Ra and Matt Dillahunty and Seth Andrews and so many others, is bearing some damned fine fruit, as I see it.
My leaving Christianity had nothing to do with any of those people. The last two I haven’t even heard of, Hitchens was an asshole, and I have never read Dawkins in my life.
Give credit where credit is due: Christianity’s hatred of women and LGBT+ people.
Well we already know the strict materialist group would be << nones, since a lot of people who report none answer yes to questions about belief in a higher being, an afterlife, etc.
Heck even even some subset of the people who answer *atheist* on these surveys will answer 'yes' to a belief like that, so the group could be << atheists.
I think it may be my biases, but it sure seems like the parking lots of churches around my neck of the woods are getting emptier. I live in a town of 3000 people and we have 18 churches here.
There were 3 rather large churches on Clairemont Drive here; big buildings, huge parking lots. I have a hard time remembering things that have been torn down, but one for sure is gone and condos or apartment buildings are going up. Lutheran, I think. They were next to a Methodist church where I used to help my folks hand out stuff for families at Christmas. My parents' old Presby church sustains itself with day care and ESL classes during the week. They also reap a tasty bit of cash from a cell phone company tower on the property. And, as I've mentioned before, my mom's Presby church congregation dwindled down to a handful of old folks, so they shut down.
The religious biz is looking grim here these days, but I suspect the Catholic churches that squat on spectacular hills around San Diego will be the last to go.
I live a block away from the Catholic church, and across is a Bethel Friends church (that was a Lutheran church a couple of years ago), and the Catholic church is definitely losing people.
The Priest scandals hit them hard and tightly so. Strangely the Southern Baptists with the same problem are rolling with it. Hypocrisy and abuse need to be rooted out.
One of my ex and DM ex boss both speak 5 languages. English, German, Flemish, French and Spanish for the former. French, Arab, Kabyle, English and Spanish for the latter, at least one of her sons speak them too.
The combo English/Spanish is quite common in France.
Expect more desperate measures - the church industry is big dollars and these preachermans is not about to relinquish their money without a drawn out fight. The Catholic Church started a full on torture death squad when Marty L. got his idears out there.
The Inquisition started in Spain around the time of Columbus and was aimed at Jews and Moslems. It continued throughout Europe until Napoleon ended it in 1808. That's a very long run of human misery and death.
One thing I’m worried about all of the money being pulled from public schools and being given to charter schools, more accurately religious schools, or homeschooling. Are we going to see this move the other direction once all these brainwashed children become adults?
Private schools don't get money that's earmarked for public schools. Families who pay to send their children to private schools also still pay property taxes to their school district, meaning the school district is getting money for a child they don't have the expense of educating. Even in states with school choice, the money generally comes from somewhere other than the public school's coffers.
Everything not explicitly christian is pagan. All other religions are pagan. Secularism is simultaneously a product of christianity, but still pagan. Minorities bad, LGBTQ bad, anything not Jesus bad.
"There is, he warns, no escape. We can only brace ourselves and prepare for a future when power will determine every relationship. Morality as we know it, as a Christian inheritance, will be forfeit, replaced by state-enforced “morality.” Violence will be common—doled out at the hand of an all-powerful state and its corporate allies."
i think higher criticism has some fascinating cul-de-sacs, but that could be merely because i was raised protestant and didn't drill down on any secular philosophy until welll into adulthood.
I was surprised to see Gunnison county on the list, it's smack dab in the middle of the bibble belt. Also, I'm 66 so sadly I probably won't live to see these numbers reverse in the favor of no religion, period. But it's coming.
OT apparently in Marseille, there is some sort of exhibition of nude paintings which you have to attend in the nude. I don't think I'll be going. I don't want to frighten the horses.
It's amazing and sad how many Americans aren't true Americans. Luckily, if we get ride of democracy, us white conservative Christians won't have to worry about those pesky others.
LOL, I’m as American as apple pie. I have not been a Christian since 2008, largely because it was killing me to worship a god who thinks that who I am is itself a sin.
But you know, enjoy voting for a racist rapist with multiple felony charges against him, who exemplifies none of what Christianity claims to stand for and everything that drove people like me away.
OT ... I just heard that charter schools in NZ – newly invigorated by a right-wing government – have been removing teachers' rights by forbidding them to join unions. Apparently someone "mistakenly" released a document to this effect.
Other explanations of the criteria are more detailed but no easier to interpret. Page 25 is labeled "Critical Race Theory" but also says reviewers should ensure that sex education instruction "include the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and subsequent amendments." *𝑆𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑙𝑦? 𝐼𝑛 𝑠𝑒𝑥 𝑒𝑑 𝑐𝑙𝑎𝑠𝑠𝑒𝑠!*
"go on group dates rather than spend one-on-one time with a partner." DeSantis never heard of an orgy? The fifth wheel always has zir hands or might get involved in a 3-way.
This is a confused clusterfuck even for a curriculum designed by committee.
"By their fruits, you shall know them."
Well, folks are seeing the fruits of American Christianity and are reacting accordingly. There is no love there. Minimal kindness. Mostly anger. Mostly hate. Mostly a lust for power above all else, power to force others to obey them.
Thing is, those who want to use Christianity as a bludgeon against others, their shtick ain't working as well as it used to. Hell doesn't bother as many people as it used to (especially considering that it no more exists than Yahweh does!), and the idea of well being as a basis for morality is winning out against the carrot-and-stick routine that those churches like to use.
The word is on the street, and bully churches are taking it on the chin, because of that.
+++
Christians tend to attribute all that's good with the world to their religion, while dismissing the many horrors perpetrated in the name of Christianity as the work of people who were not TRUE Christians. True Christians as defined by them, which is an extremely flexible standard.
No True Scotsman could ever play the bagpipes as hard as "moderate" Christians do.
LOL
That's due to the conditioning they've been subjected to for probably their whole lives.
It's like in Scientology; good things happen, hurray for the "tech." Bad things happen, you "pulled it in," or were a shit head in a former life.
Easy to recognise, very hard to break that way of thinking.
Sometimes, I'd tell Scientologists they were mentally conditioned, and they'd vehemently deny it. Then I'd say, "Do you just shit on the floor when you have to go?"
They'd of course say no.
"Do you use the bathroom instead?"
"Naturally."
"You've been mentally conditioned to use a toilet since you were a little kid."
I don't know if it made any of them think about it, but I kinda like to think so.
What appears like a win-win for them is sheer lunacy to the sane and rational.
Kind of explains why they're trying to destroy a decent public education, doesn't it...
Not every atheist or "none" supports government education.
I survived indoctrination in religious schools. Indoctrination by the state isn't any better.
Yeah, reading, writing, arithmetic, social studies, biology, home economics... indoctrination. The horror of being taught basic skills to navigate contemporary society.
Don’t lump all Xtians together. Religion has always harbored angry psychotics and sadists, but in mainline Protestantism there’s plenty of good people doing actual teachings of Jesus. Even a lot of evangelicals have fled the GOP voting block for Madame President.
I never believed a word of that sky daddy stuff, but people who do don’t deserve to be slandered as the same as the con men and child rapists who use religion as tax proof grift. Or the nasty people who go to their “churches” (money laundering operations?)
Don’t tar your allies with the degenerates.
A very solid majority of Americans are not conservative white Christians. Here is the data that demonstrates that fact. White Christian Nationalists know this and are doing everything they can to grab as much power as they can so they can keep the majority down. Even if you don't want to vote for Democrats, do it anyway since it is the only way to vote against the Project 2025 White Christian Nationalists.
It's also why we're seeing a bigger effort by conservatives to inject Christianity into schools.
Maybe they should take a relly good look at themselves and ask what good do they do to make people choose them.
They rather put the fear of Hell out to gather and keep their people.
The rats are sensing the corner closing in and they know it's now or never. If they don't fight now to secure their place of power and cash, there might not be another opportunity to regain that position of influence in the future.
𝑇ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑖𝑠 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑦 𝑑𝑎𝑚𝑛 𝑎𝑚𝑎𝑧𝑖𝑛𝑔. 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑐𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑎𝑔𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑙𝑦 𝑢𝑛𝑎𝑓𝑓𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑠 𝑖𝑠, 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑖𝑟𝑠𝑡 𝑡𝑖𝑚𝑒, 𝑙𝑎𝑟𝑔𝑒𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑐𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑎𝑔𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑡𝑒 𝑃𝑟𝑜𝑡𝑒𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑡𝑠 (𝑏𝑜𝑡ℎ 𝑒𝑣𝑎𝑛𝑔𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑚𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑒).
Hemant, you have a talent for understatement! Those numbers aren't just amazing; they're downright STAGGERING. I'm not certain that the rise rate is shelfing off, either. There may be a point where the hardcore believers cause the graphs to plateau, but that may be a ways away yet. The seeds that were sown by Hitchens and Dawkins and Dennett and Harris, and then carried on by Aron Ra and Matt Dillahunty and Seth Andrews and so many others, is bearing some damned fine fruit, as I see it.
And this is NO time to quit!
And Madelyn Murray O'Hair, we owe her a huge debt, they are still trying to reverse her good acts.
NO KIDDIN"!!!
My leaving Christianity had nothing to do with any of those people. The last two I haven’t even heard of, Hitchens was an asshole, and I have never read Dawkins in my life.
Give credit where credit is due: Christianity’s hatred of women and LGBT+ people.
"Y'all got on this boat for different reasons ... but y'all come to the same place."
-- Malcolm Reynolds
However you got here, we're glad you made it.
I wouldn't mind seeing such a poll myself. Question is: what pollster would be willing to do such a poll, and how would the questions be phrased?
Well we already know the strict materialist group would be << nones, since a lot of people who report none answer yes to questions about belief in a higher being, an afterlife, etc.
Heck even even some subset of the people who answer *atheist* on these surveys will answer 'yes' to a belief like that, so the group could be << atheists.
I think it may be my biases, but it sure seems like the parking lots of churches around my neck of the woods are getting emptier. I live in a town of 3000 people and we have 18 churches here.
There were 3 rather large churches on Clairemont Drive here; big buildings, huge parking lots. I have a hard time remembering things that have been torn down, but one for sure is gone and condos or apartment buildings are going up. Lutheran, I think. They were next to a Methodist church where I used to help my folks hand out stuff for families at Christmas. My parents' old Presby church sustains itself with day care and ESL classes during the week. They also reap a tasty bit of cash from a cell phone company tower on the property. And, as I've mentioned before, my mom's Presby church congregation dwindled down to a handful of old folks, so they shut down.
The religious biz is looking grim here these days, but I suspect the Catholic churches that squat on spectacular hills around San Diego will be the last to go.
I live a block away from the Catholic church, and across is a Bethel Friends church (that was a Lutheran church a couple of years ago), and the Catholic church is definitely losing people.
The Priest scandals hit them hard and tightly so. Strangely the Southern Baptists with the same problem are rolling with it. Hypocrisy and abuse need to be rooted out.
I blame all these rainbow charts! 🌈
I don't understand what your meaning is. is it a slur on gay people, or support for colorful natural selection?
Merely a poor attempt at sarcasm. I like the idea of colorful natural selection!
Not so poor. I got it and English is not my first language.
Something that I admire the hell out of! I've always wanted to be bilingual. (my spouse is a polyglot.)
One of my ex and DM ex boss both speak 5 languages. English, German, Flemish, French and Spanish for the former. French, Arab, Kabyle, English and Spanish for the latter, at least one of her sons speak them too.
The combo English/Spanish is quite common in France.
Expect more desperate measures - the church industry is big dollars and these preachermans is not about to relinquish their money without a drawn out fight. The Catholic Church started a full on torture death squad when Marty L. got his idears out there.
The Inquisition - now that's what you call an EFFECTIVE ready response team!
Nobody expected that.
The Inquisition started in Spain around the time of Columbus and was aimed at Jews and Moslems. It continued throughout Europe until Napoleon ended it in 1808. That's a very long run of human misery and death.
One thing I’m worried about all of the money being pulled from public schools and being given to charter schools, more accurately religious schools, or homeschooling. Are we going to see this move the other direction once all these brainwashed children become adults?
You are already experiencing the homeschooling ignorant and Charter Schools propagandized kids coming up.
Private schools don't get money that's earmarked for public schools. Families who pay to send their children to private schools also still pay property taxes to their school district, meaning the school district is getting money for a child they don't have the expense of educating. Even in states with school choice, the money generally comes from somewhere other than the public school's coffers.
Currently reading this, yes it's as bad as you think.
https://www.amazon.com/Pagan-America-Decline-Christianity-Dark/dp/1684514444
Everything not explicitly christian is pagan. All other religions are pagan. Secularism is simultaneously a product of christianity, but still pagan. Minorities bad, LGBTQ bad, anything not Jesus bad.
That guy is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKLo-jzizdg
"There is, he warns, no escape. We can only brace ourselves and prepare for a future when power will determine every relationship. Morality as we know it, as a Christian inheritance, will be forfeit, replaced by state-enforced “morality.” Violence will be common—doled out at the hand of an all-powerful state and its corporate allies."
Did you read his full bio?
https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0CYCH6S54/about
Violence has been pretty common when Christianity ruled.
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/458370052_1751998145586540_4075806145533885622_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=C-rxT8ehCa0Q7kNvgG1zPWn&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AYBilGBjCHCXDvBmuCfT44ayWdPkeK2h-sMuR5X2gdJnaA&oe=66DFD43F
Missing: all those innocent babies and innocent animals
And what sin did all the trees and plants commit to deserve dying?
Davidson is 🤪
If he took his head out of his ass, he'd know we're already there. Because of the fundamentalists.
Why do I hear Gomer Pyle uttering "Sur-prise surprise surprise"?
Dis-moi que c'est un cadeau pourri et que tu n'as pas payé pour ça...
Library. And overdue, so I need to finish it up and get it back.
As a Pagan myself, LOL. They just can’t parse that atheists and agnostics exist and don’t GAF about anybody’s religious text.
i think higher criticism has some fascinating cul-de-sacs, but that could be merely because i was raised protestant and didn't drill down on any secular philosophy until welll into adulthood.
The more they decline, the louder they'll scream- and the more they'll try to drag everyone else down with them.
Yes the Kamikaze pilots had nothing on the religious fanatics, who have nothing to lose.
I was surprised to see Gunnison county on the list, it's smack dab in the middle of the bibble belt. Also, I'm 66 so sadly I probably won't live to see these numbers reverse in the favor of no religion, period. But it's coming.
https://www.alternet.org/virginia-republicans-bob-good/
I love it when they whale on each other.
So much cohesion and unity.
OT apparently in Marseille, there is some sort of exhibition of nude paintings which you have to attend in the nude. I don't think I'll be going. I don't want to frighten the horses.
I promise you, they won't be jealous of your tail.
You misspelled 'horseflies'
imgur.com/gallery/xRVqeZ2
Maybe some of them will vote for Harris as a result?
They certainly have big blow holes that they can't keep shut.
Let the games begin!
It's amazing and sad how many Americans aren't true Americans. Luckily, if we get ride of democracy, us white conservative Christians won't have to worry about those pesky others.
You channel wingnuts perfectly! I can just hear them saying that at their "Klan" meetings.
After sunday klan meeting.
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/457914902_10234890578475608_1280325990193679684_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=NHk00HEfo0gQ7kNvgErfo-x&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&_nc_gid=AiBagmnuGcrpynsZJY3fAUF&oh=00_AYDZXgMxWT15K4JaqTrhubx_GGD_hRC6eJqbgUIfb9eLGQ&oe=66DFDA20
I stand corrected, Sunday clan meeting! thanks!
LOL, I’m as American as apple pie. I have not been a Christian since 2008, largely because it was killing me to worship a god who thinks that who I am is itself a sin.
But you know, enjoy voting for a racist rapist with multiple felony charges against him, who exemplifies none of what Christianity claims to stand for and everything that drove people like me away.
You know apples are from China. The first apple pie recipe was from England, you know the red coats. Are you a red? God damn, commie!
That was snark. If you hang out here long enough, you will pick up on Holytape's sense of humor.
Ah. Poe’s Law strikes again, I guess.
OT ... I just heard that charter schools in NZ – newly invigorated by a right-wing government – have been removing teachers' rights by forbidding them to join unions. Apparently someone "mistakenly" released a document to this effect.
Wanting to remove peoples right to join whatever union they want to, is violating their right to join any organisation they want to.
I know "religiously unaffiliated" isn't the same as "non-religious" or "Atheist", but it's progress.
Not one person...
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/458487410_1602035907396838_1944204586448921261_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=L7v1Vx96KWAQ7kNvgGxVUVU&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&_nc_gid=AsbSbvM2DzNYeC2hANAvcfS&oh=00_AYAMDYdrePjABxfM9EXcLz-yLdGynPaGPe1SRRlJ3UV96g&oe=66DFF890
OT - DeNazi and his repukelican goons put the duh in Floriduh.
𝐖𝐡𝐲 𝐭𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐬𝐚𝐧𝐝𝐬 𝐨𝐟 𝐅𝐥𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐝𝐚 𝐬𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐬 𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐛𝐞𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐚𝐮𝐠𝐡𝐭 𝐬𝐞𝐱 𝐞𝐝
Other explanations of the criteria are more detailed but no easier to interpret. Page 25 is labeled "Critical Race Theory" but also says reviewers should ensure that sex education instruction "include the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and subsequent amendments." *𝑆𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑙𝑦? 𝐼𝑛 𝑠𝑒𝑥 𝑒𝑑 𝑐𝑙𝑎𝑠𝑠𝑒𝑠!*
https://popular.info/p/why-thousands-of-florida-students
Do florihell colleges teach medicine and genetics courses ? The cultural shock will be, interesting...
Yes. There is one in the abortion of a city on the wrong side of the bay. Medical school that is.
Them words are not for mixed company in Florida.
What the, and in this case I feel I simply must add the qualifier "𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘶𝘢𝘭," fuck?
"go on group dates rather than spend one-on-one time with a partner." DeSantis never heard of an orgy? The fifth wheel always has zir hands or might get involved in a 3-way.
This is a confused clusterfuck even for a curriculum designed by committee.
And abstinence-only “education” reaches Florida. A pity; it used to be a pretty nice place to live.