I also think that the church is wrong in this case - if they really want to hold onto their anti-LGBTQ stance (and you all know much more about the biblical absence of any comments about that), they could very easily prioritise the care of children. After all there's loads of biblical comments about looking after people and in particular children.
I think the American catholic church has led itself up the garden path, they've taken a far more virulent anti-LBGTQ stance than eg around here.
For regular people? Not hard at all. For the Free Exercise Clause absolutists pushing this? Their livelihoods depend on not understanding. (The Establishment Clause is an afterthought to them.)
The Catholic Church and I went our separate ways nearly sixty years ago. Every article I read about the church today confirms that was a good decision. The Catholic church did not stop burning people alive because they saw the error of their ways, but because they were forced to stop by secular government.
Considering the multiple violations regarding sexual abuse that the Church has committed over the centuries, it SHOULD be censured and denied the right to operate in the US, full freaking stop.
On the day that actually happens, catch me, because I WILL FAINT FROM SHOCK.
Read the 4 gospels. Point to us the exact scripture where Jesus told his followers to hate and discriminate against LGBTQs. Bet you can't find a single reference to LGBTQs in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. This would be understandable, since psychological orientations were not understood at the time.
Nearly 50 years ago, I was in a debate with a Catholic woman about an anti-gay political measure. She was going on and on and on about sex practices that she did not approve of, and which justified in her tiny tiny tiny mind whatever was done too gay people.
A loud and sassy woman stood up to ask a question: “ show me in the Bible where it says anything about oral sex!’ the Catholic woman’s response was perfect: “well, it’s all through the Bible!” the loud and sassy woman asked again: “show me in the Bible where it says anything about oral sex.” Catholic lady said that that wasn’t her job to explain it.
Because they want discrimination to be legal again. They want to eliminate the Civil Rights Act of 1964. They want white conservative Christian men to be declared the only demographic qualified to be full citizens.
Church greed and lust for power says that is unacceptable. Christian Fucking Privilege makes them feel entitled to taxpayer money while not having to follow rules that limit their iron fisted control.
I do truly wish our government as a whole could stare down the RCC and in one voice say, "READ THE FIRST FREAKING AMENDMENT, you asses! You don't deserve the money. YOU DON"T GET THE MONEY!"
Hell, I wish they'd do that here in Ohio, but once again, not holding my breath.
This one SHOULD be open and shut. Church discriminates against LGBTQ+ parents? Church SHOULD receive NO PUBLIC FUNDS. Period, end of discussion.
That's how it SHOULD work. With a Supreme Court with SIX CATHOLICS on it and an administration where up is down and left is right, there is no real telling where SCOTUS will come down on this one. It would be nice to believe that The Nine could be bothered to recognize something as fundamental as the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment and maintain the separation between State and Church.
It'd be nice if Donald Trump would come to his senses and vacate his office, too, but that ain't gonna happen.
If there was a god, Trump would have had an aneurysm on his way down that golden escalator. But he’s still hanging on today despite his obvious debilitating health conditions. Die already you fucking orange dickhead.
You've got a point, but there are catholics and there are catholics. There are people who can distinguish between their (private) faith and the requirements of their office and the constitution.
On the case of Joe Biden - somewhere somehow it's somewhat funny (funny peculiar) that all those 'christians' are so keen on a bloke, who hasn't willingly gone to a church in decades and couldn't quote a bible verse if his life depended on it while Mr Biden, who was an actual believing, church-going religious person got no credit whatsoever.
Biden had a (D) after his name, so to the evangelicals he worshipped Satan. Meanwhile, they worship a man who fits the description of the antichrist pretty nicely.
Minor correction: There are actually five Catholics on the SC. According to his Wikipedia entry, Gorsuch is an EX-Catholic (He was raised Catholic by his family, but now as an adult attends an Episcopalian church).
Maybe so, but I'd bet you a cup of your favorite beverage that the influence of the Church is still with him, to one degree or another. In any case, I could throw that son of a bitch* further than I'd ever trust him!
I still remember how Al Franken took him apart over that during his senate confirmation hearings and he did not know where to look. Mr Gorsuch drank an awful lot of water during that exchange .....
Can you imagine the uproar if they DID? Will never happen, though. They're too full of themselves and their presumed lack of bias to even consider such a thing.
Here's a solution: stop funding private school pre-K programs with tax dollars and send it all to the public schools. Public school, public money. Private school, private money.
I would give real money to see that happen in Ohio. The public school coffers here are being hammered because idiots in the Buckeye think that it's okay to fund private schools with public money. Where they got THAT idea from, I don't know.
It's a great idea. However, if you want to ramp up a programme, it's easier for a state/county/country to pay other organisations to put in the hard work of setting up the organisation, rent the building, hire the staff and then deliver the services.
I'm having a bit of trouble wading though all the legalese, so I'll concentrate on the basics:
Quote: "a “Catholic school cannot treat a same-sex couple as a family equivalent to the natural family without compromising its mission and Catholic identity.”"
This is bollocks, absolute horse manure! Let's remind ourselves, we're talking about children here. Small children. And the priority for those young children is that they're getting childcare and an education! Whether their Dad wears women's panties on Saturday night and their Mum lives in a blended family has got no influence on that this child needs childcare and education.
Is it really so hard, to concentrate on that aspect of the whole situation?
By all means as a church stick to your 'we don't like the gayz' line, but you should, you really should rank the education and childcare for young children higher than that!
The kids will get an education, all right. They'll see how the Church treats their parents, whom they likely love, and think, "What's wrong with these guys in dresses??? What happened to: 'love thy neighbor as thyself?'"
The Church wants to wonder why they're losing adherents? There's at least ONE answer.
'Quote: "a “Catholic school cannot treat a same-sex couple as a family equivalent to the natural family without compromising its mission and Catholic identity.”"'
What it is effectively saying, is that canon law overrides civil law.
I’m going on a trip today, so I don’t have much time to write. I will send you greetings from Slovenia.
It’s always always always about power, money, and religious Dominion for conservative churches. Always. If we ever get our country back and we get some leadership with some guts, this sort of thing should end.
A CNN chief data analyst reported that Melania's net favorability rating was at -12 as of this month, making her the least-popular First Lady in history.
She's a gold digger who thought she hit pay dirt with a guy who personifies dirt. May she live to regret that decision every day for the rest of her life.
I have good family friends from Slovenia. I have a standing invitation to visit, but doubt it will ever happen. (They live here but go back about once a year.)
Thanks. I’ll probably post something while I’m gone. I’ve enjoyed my previous trips to the former Yugoslavia. Very nice people, decent food, nice places to visit.
The answer is very simple, RCC: NO! You do NOT get taxpayer dollars to fuel your bigoty, as the RCC pays ZERO in taxes.
Want to play? Pay. Don't want to pay? Pray.
I am fully confident that this Supreme Court can be counted on to do the wrong thing.
Amen
No public oversight, no public monies.
How hard is that to understand?
Too hard for a church that thinks it deserves to be above the law ... or outside of the law or exempt from the law because ... because ... REASONS!
Yeah, that's it. 🤪
The RCC 𝘄𝗮𝘀 the law for centuries. They are just angry that they aren't anymore.
And there are six damned fools on SCOTUS that might just give that back to them!
I also think that the church is wrong in this case - if they really want to hold onto their anti-LGBTQ stance (and you all know much more about the biblical absence of any comments about that), they could very easily prioritise the care of children. After all there's loads of biblical comments about looking after people and in particular children.
I think the American catholic church has led itself up the garden path, they've taken a far more virulent anti-LBGTQ stance than eg around here.
Absolutely. Thank you.
For regular people? Not hard at all. For the Free Exercise Clause absolutists pushing this? Their livelihoods depend on not understanding. (The Establishment Clause is an afterthought to them.)
The Catholic Church and I went our separate ways nearly sixty years ago. Every article I read about the church today confirms that was a good decision. The Catholic church did not stop burning people alive because they saw the error of their ways, but because they were forced to stop by secular government.
Considering the multiple violations regarding sexual abuse that the Church has committed over the centuries, it SHOULD be censured and denied the right to operate in the US, full freaking stop.
On the day that actually happens, catch me, because I WILL FAINT FROM SHOCK.
They molest children and they want to be PAID for it? Oh, hell no.
To Holy Mother Church...
Read the 4 gospels. Point to us the exact scripture where Jesus told his followers to hate and discriminate against LGBTQs. Bet you can't find a single reference to LGBTQs in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. This would be understandable, since psychological orientations were not understood at the time.
Nearly 50 years ago, I was in a debate with a Catholic woman about an anti-gay political measure. She was going on and on and on about sex practices that she did not approve of, and which justified in her tiny tiny tiny mind whatever was done too gay people.
A loud and sassy woman stood up to ask a question: “ show me in the Bible where it says anything about oral sex!’ the Catholic woman’s response was perfect: “well, it’s all through the Bible!” the loud and sassy woman asked again: “show me in the Bible where it says anything about oral sex.” Catholic lady said that that wasn’t her job to explain it.
Next question.
Of course. Either wave off or ignore a question you don't like or don't have an answer to. Par for the course.
Oh, how I would've loved to quote scripture after scripture about the treatment of women in the bible and the Catholic faith.
I really would have wanted to ask her what direct effect the existence of gay people had on her life.
To "Holy" Mother Church...
Fixed that for you, sir.
𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 ℎ𝑎𝑑 ℎ𝑜𝑝𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑗𝑢𝑑𝑔𝑒 𝑤𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑑𝑒𝑐𝑙𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑛𝑜𝑛-𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑐𝑟𝑖𝑚𝑖𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑟𝑢𝑙𝑒𝑠 𝑖𝑙𝑙𝑒𝑔𝑎𝑙.
Because they want discrimination to be legal again. They want to eliminate the Civil Rights Act of 1964. They want white conservative Christian men to be declared the only demographic qualified to be full citizens.
𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑎 𝑠𝑖𝑚𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑠𝑜𝑙𝑢𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑡𝑜 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡, 𝑜𝑓 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑠𝑒: 𝐽𝑢𝑠𝑡 𝑑𝑜𝑛’𝑡 𝑎𝑐𝑐𝑒𝑝𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒’𝑠 𝑚𝑜𝑛𝑒𝑦.
Church greed and lust for power says that is unacceptable. Christian Fucking Privilege makes them feel entitled to taxpayer money while not having to follow rules that limit their iron fisted control.
I do truly wish our government as a whole could stare down the RCC and in one voice say, "READ THE FIRST FREAKING AMENDMENT, you asses! You don't deserve the money. YOU DON"T GET THE MONEY!"
Hell, I wish they'd do that here in Ohio, but once again, not holding my breath.
This one SHOULD be open and shut. Church discriminates against LGBTQ+ parents? Church SHOULD receive NO PUBLIC FUNDS. Period, end of discussion.
That's how it SHOULD work. With a Supreme Court with SIX CATHOLICS on it and an administration where up is down and left is right, there is no real telling where SCOTUS will come down on this one. It would be nice to believe that The Nine could be bothered to recognize something as fundamental as the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment and maintain the separation between State and Church.
It'd be nice if Donald Trump would come to his senses and vacate his office, too, but that ain't gonna happen.
If there was a god, Trump would have had an aneurysm on his way down that golden escalator. But he’s still hanging on today despite his obvious debilitating health conditions. Die already you fucking orange dickhead.
You've got a point, but there are catholics and there are catholics. There are people who can distinguish between their (private) faith and the requirements of their office and the constitution.
Case in point - Joe Biden.
I'd be a lot more encouraged if I thought that ol' Joe were the rule and not the exception. These days, I'm not horribly confident of that.
Absolutely.
On the case of Joe Biden - somewhere somehow it's somewhat funny (funny peculiar) that all those 'christians' are so keen on a bloke, who hasn't willingly gone to a church in decades and couldn't quote a bible verse if his life depended on it while Mr Biden, who was an actual believing, church-going religious person got no credit whatsoever.
Biden had a (D) after his name, so to the evangelicals he worshipped Satan. Meanwhile, they worship a man who fits the description of the antichrist pretty nicely.
Minor correction: There are actually five Catholics on the SC. According to his Wikipedia entry, Gorsuch is an EX-Catholic (He was raised Catholic by his family, but now as an adult attends an Episcopalian church).
Maybe so, but I'd bet you a cup of your favorite beverage that the influence of the Church is still with him, to one degree or another. In any case, I could throw that son of a bitch* further than I'd ever trust him!
* Tome nagi works just FINE to that purpose!
"..but I'd bet you a cup of your favorite beverages..."
I will kindly ask you to leave my precious cappuccinos out of the conversation./s
No worries. For myself, I'll stick to a good single-malt.
Gorsuch? The one of the frozen trucker case?
I still remember how Al Franken took him apart over that during his senate confirmation hearings and he did not know where to look. Mr Gorsuch drank an awful lot of water during that exchange .....
Most of the Court should recuse themselves.
Can you imagine the uproar if they DID? Will never happen, though. They're too full of themselves and their presumed lack of bias to even consider such a thing.
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/newsadvance.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/24/e243e336-a260-11e8-8b9b-2f81e0a38144/5b773817ba2b4.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C886
The one thing that seems to unite all religions (at least in the US) is their belief that they're being discriminated against.
And in the case of muslims (and maybe also the satanists?) they might have a point:
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/theyre-not-bigots-they-just-think-act-sharia-free-caucus-fine-self-ogles-tubberville-roy
Here's a solution: stop funding private school pre-K programs with tax dollars and send it all to the public schools. Public school, public money. Private school, private money.
I would give real money to see that happen in Ohio. The public school coffers here are being hammered because idiots in the Buckeye think that it's okay to fund private schools with public money. Where they got THAT idea from, I don't know.
I just wish they'd get shut of it.
It's a great idea. However, if you want to ramp up a programme, it's easier for a state/county/country to pay other organisations to put in the hard work of setting up the organisation, rent the building, hire the staff and then deliver the services.
I'm having a bit of trouble wading though all the legalese, so I'll concentrate on the basics:
Quote: "a “Catholic school cannot treat a same-sex couple as a family equivalent to the natural family without compromising its mission and Catholic identity.”"
This is bollocks, absolute horse manure! Let's remind ourselves, we're talking about children here. Small children. And the priority for those young children is that they're getting childcare and an education! Whether their Dad wears women's panties on Saturday night and their Mum lives in a blended family has got no influence on that this child needs childcare and education.
Is it really so hard, to concentrate on that aspect of the whole situation?
By all means as a church stick to your 'we don't like the gayz' line, but you should, you really should rank the education and childcare for young children higher than that!
The kids will get an education, all right. They'll see how the Church treats their parents, whom they likely love, and think, "What's wrong with these guys in dresses??? What happened to: 'love thy neighbor as thyself?'"
The Church wants to wonder why they're losing adherents? There's at least ONE answer.
Absolutely. A church which ranks (sexual) bigotry higher than the commandments of looking after vulnerable people deserves to lose adherents!
"Love thy neighbor as thyself"? Come on Troubleshooter, you know that cherry is always left on the tree!
Fine ... I'LL pick it, and I won't blink or offer excuses when I do so!
'Quote: "a “Catholic school cannot treat a same-sex couple as a family equivalent to the natural family without compromising its mission and Catholic identity.”"'
What it is effectively saying, is that canon law overrides civil law.
Almost like Sharia Law :^|
Punishing the kids for the actions of the parents is so on-brand for Christianity.
I’m going on a trip today, so I don’t have much time to write. I will send you greetings from Slovenia.
It’s always always always about power, money, and religious Dominion for conservative churches. Always. If we ever get our country back and we get some leadership with some guts, this sort of thing should end.
> "greetings from Slovenia."
Is that a real country? Is it anywhere near Elbonia?
😉
It is the land that spawned what Franklin Graham called “the classiest first lady ever.“
It’s not Slovenia‘s fault. It happened while the communists were running the former Yugoslavia. there weren't very good at their jobs
A CNN chief data analyst reported that Melania's net favorability rating was at -12 as of this month, making her the least-popular First Lady in history.
I might wonder if she has ever been ABOVE water, as regards her popularity, but then, I don't give a rotten dump about her, so fuck that!
She's a gold digger who thought she hit pay dirt with a guy who personifies dirt. May she live to regret that decision every day for the rest of her life.
"I met my husband at a party in New York City..." She just left out that the party was thrown by Jeffrey Epstein.
But still the classiest.
I have good family friends from Slovenia. I have a standing invitation to visit, but doubt it will ever happen. (They live here but go back about once a year.)
I’ve enjoyed my two previous trips to the former Yugoslavia. I’m pretty sure I’m going to like this one as well
Safe travels! Want to hear the highlights when you return.
Thanks. I’ll probably post something while I’m gone. I’ve enjoyed my previous trips to the former Yugoslavia. Very nice people, decent food, nice places to visit.
Wishing you a great trip!
Thanks. I think it will be..
Unwarranted xtian privilege strikes again.
They don't take no for an answer. How they long for the days when thy had the power of life and death in their hands,