The 9-0 ruling lets Catholic Charities avoid unemployment taxes despite offering no religious services. What happens when the definition of "religious" is this vague?
I do not think any of them should be exempt from payroll or property taxes. Also, I think for them to be not-for-profits, there needs to be a salary cap on preachers - I'm looking at you Joel Osteen.
Characters like Copeland & Meyer and fellow grifters like Osteen have no ethical right to receive any tax exemptions because they are not a Christian Church and nor are they a non for profit community welfare service.
These religious entrepreneurs basically run self serving road shows and due to the flawed and immoral tax laws their opportunism shows complete contempt for hard working tax paying citizens.
But of course this is the American way, and as Bert Cooper once said, "This country was built and run by men who have far worse stories." Mad Men
That's too complicated. Tax them just like any other business. America is NOT a Christian nation, or a nation of any religion. If someone wants to live in such a country, they exist. Iran comes to mind.
There are 35 American countries including the United States. Unfourtantly some do proclaim to be Christian nations. Please research "America" starting with Amerigo Vespucci. Thanks
I was thinking of the mega churches when I made that statement. Joel Osteen could feed all the hungry in several countries and then some. I wonder how many of the people in his community went hungry tonight?
Guess we know which way SCOTUS will lean when Holy Mother Church attacks mandatory reporting of its clergy for child sexual abuse via the confessional.
Let see how will they cope with drumpster next stunt. I didn't watch it but I saw a video in my YouTube feed about how drumpster or one of his mignon wants to let the States decide for interracial marriages.
Well I wouldn't call Clarence Thomas Trump's minion. He may rule in Trump's favor on everything, but that's because Thomas has been far right longer than Trump has.
I am not encouraged by this. It would have been one thing if this were a 6-3 decision, with the liberal wing of the court voting against. Not only was the decision 9-0, but Justice Sonia Sotomayor wrote the opinion!
Someone please tell me why I shouldn't believe that SCOTUS, along with Trump in the Executive Branch and the Republicans in Congress, haven't utterly jumped the shark with this crap. PLEASE.
When the evangelicals establish far-right Protestant Christianity, and the Supremes establish Catholic Christianity, then the US will have the Troubles.
Entirely possible. I had a field service call to Derry, Northern Ireland, to install a test system at Seagate, many years ago and not long after the resolution of "The Troubles." My repeated experience there outside of work was when someone would hear my "American accent" and ask what I was doing there. I would tell them and their response, almost without exception, was "GREAT!" More than anything, THEY WANTED JOBS, and Seagate was hiring.
I can't help noticing that Trump's actions here in the US is having a markedly negative effect on employment. Add that to the whole religious crap, and what do you get?
Sotomayor's argued that sincerely religious organizations should not be compelled by the state to genuflect and pray and do all sorts of religious stuff just to get the tax break. If they just want to be quiet about their religious aspect and do charitable things, they should still get it.
Which is a reasonable argument....until you realize that the unintended consequences of "the court can't look at the nonprofit's behavior to assess credibility" is that the courts can no longer distinguish the 'doing it for the money' cons from the folks the legislation was intended to help.
Well my point is that this ruling is not any sort of sign that the Sotomayor and the other libs on the bench have bought the christian dominionist kool-aid. It's a crappy ruling and I think it's going to make the problem of religious exceptionalism worse - but it's a crappy ruling coming from a legit idea that the state should not make dancing bears of charities before giving them a tax break.
IKR. I personally was completely shocked that all of the progressive justices sided with the other six conservatives, on really such a legally flimsy opinion, at least to me. There is absolutely no indication that the Wisconsin court purposely targeted the CCB or was bigoted towards it due to their particular faith.
Since everyone and their cousin has probably mentioned taxing the @#$(*%) churches again, I'd like to point out something else for a moment.
The RCC is likely one of the wealthiest groups around, and has been for centuries now. They have staggering amounts of property, art, history, and funds to use however they see fit for the promotion of their views, and do not reasonably need any assistance paying taxes. Yet here we are, watching as they insist they don't need to pay for a system that supports 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑜𝑤𝑛 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 - 𝑝𝑟𝑖𝑜𝑟 𝑒𝑚𝑝𝑙𝑜𝑦𝑒𝑒𝑠 - when they likely need the support of that very system desperately. To be clear, the RCC is effectively 𝑢𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑤𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑡ℎ 𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑐𝑖𝑓𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 𝑎𝑠 𝑎 𝑤𝑒𝑎𝑝𝑜𝑛 𝑎𝑔𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑐𝑙𝑎𝑖𝑚 𝑡𝑜 𝑙𝑜𝑣𝑒. Thinking, at this point, that the RCC loves its wealth more than it does its people is, quite fairly, completely reasonable.
Christians may or may not practice the 'religion of love' but I think it's completely fair to respond to that with "Not any kind of love I'd ever want to be involved with."
That's because they 𝘄𝗮𝗻𝘁 it to be harder for the state to help people. They want to be seen as the champion of the working class by highlighting their supposed commitment to "traditional" values, and celebrating harming the vulnerable working class undermines that.
As an example, my Congrasshole, Tim Walberg, sent an email newsletter claiming to want to make health care more affordable and available to everyone. After having voted for the "big beautiful bill" taking health care from millions.
Sotomayor's narrowing of the ruling leads me to believe that the Justices are all starting to get on board with the Free Exercise clause supremacy pushed by the conservative wing. She just wanted to maintain what little she could of the Establishment Clause.
Oh hey, another Michigander! I also have a republikkkan congressperson (at least, they claim to be a person, but I'm like 75% convinced it's just chatgpt)
Well, there’s a bright side to this. When these religious organizations start firing their employees, and the employee is finding that they cannot get unemployment compensation, maybe they’ll figure out why they can’t get it.
SCROTUS maybe claiming that this is neutrality towards religion, but ultimately, it’s only neutral towards some religions and not others. And it certainly not being neutral to the population that has no religion and must subsidize what religion gets from the state.
I have been very reluctant for many years to donate anything to any organization which is affiliated with any religious organization. The last time I did, let us just say that all of my misgivings were rapidly fulfilled, and I decided to not do it again. With this ruling, I will be absolutely sure not to donate to any organization affiliated with any religion.
Your decision could become problematic, because SCOTUS just gave perfectly normal, secular charities a big financial incentive to partner with a religious organization.
It's very much like when the government started creating small-business-only contracts, the Booz's and Boeings started inventing token partnerships so they could bid on those contracts. Well, why would an organization like Red Cross *not* partner with a religious organization and keep doing exactly what they are doing, if it means they get out of a state tax? We can also expect some pop-up 'religious' organizations to serve this exact purpose. It won't just be the RCC hospitals that avoid the tax, it'll be *every* private hospital and clinic. They will all suddenly find a reason to be doing religious work for the New 2025 Reformed Church of St. Capone the Tax Evader.
Secular charities are already eligible for tax exemption. The ones with integrity won't partner with religious organizations to get out of giving their employees unemployment protection.
Never ever count on any corporation's integrity to prevent them from accessing a tax break.
The good ones will simply isolate their CFO and Corporate Counsel from the more "mission oriented" part of the workforce, so that the regular workers remain oblivious to what the financial side of the house is doing.
All I can say is that when the civil war is over this is one more thing we must correct. Drop entirely the tax exemptions of churches, no more exceptions on paperwork, on laws, on taxes and fees and such for religious organizations.
Along with clearly defined protections for all people (not corporations or churches) no matter their status in minority groups like gender, LGBTQ, race, religion (or lack of) etc. There’s so much more, like you are not eligible to run for president if you have been convicted of felonies.
There is no fixing our system, not without blood unfortunately. I know that the Trump Musk meltdown currently playing out seems like the way we will get out from under this despot, but it’s only going to create a vacuum for worse idiots to take over. I do t want it, but be prepared folks.
Ironically, SCOTUS seems to be pushing the states in that direction. They're forcing the states into a binary "exceptions in law and taxes for any ridiculous religious claim, or exceptions for none" choice, and at least in a couple past cases the states have responded "okay then, none." I'm sure this won't always be the case, but it does seem like a small scale trend.
Wisconsin, remove the religious non-profit exemption from your Wisconsin Unemployment Compensation Act.
It's either that or see the entire Act slowly drain away to nothing, as more and more businesses establish some tenuous connection to a religious organization in order to get out of paying the tax.
Yet another 'why we cannot have nice things' lawsuit. State makes a nice exemption for some little guy businesses, regulation-dodging fundies drive a truck through it, SCOTUS says you must allow the truck if you allow the little guy, State is left with the lose-lose choice of allowing the truck problem to get worse or stopping all exemptions. Fulton v Philadelphia, Carson v Makin, the list goes on and on...
Mythical beliefs v. Real live humans not getting unemployment benefits when laid off. And the winner is the mythical belief, following a trend leading to Theocracy!
IMO churches should be taxed. They should pay taxes just like the rest of us. Especially when I think of the mega churches.
I don't mind churches being tax exempt. Provided they are required to jump through every hoop that non-church 501(c)(3)s have to go through.
I do not think any of them should be exempt from payroll or property taxes. Also, I think for them to be not-for-profits, there needs to be a salary cap on preachers - I'm looking at you Joel Osteen.
Ask Kenneth Copeland and Joyce Meyer too. Both should be prosecuted for tax fraud. In God We Trust?
Dante had a whole circle dedicated to the sin of Simony. If Hell we’re real, they’d be in for some really fun times!
Oh it’s real and lots of people specially religious will be there and lots of politicians too!
Characters like Copeland & Meyer and fellow grifters like Osteen have no ethical right to receive any tax exemptions because they are not a Christian Church and nor are they a non for profit community welfare service.
These religious entrepreneurs basically run self serving road shows and due to the flawed and immoral tax laws their opportunism shows complete contempt for hard working tax paying citizens.
But of course this is the American way, and as Bert Cooper once said, "This country was built and run by men who have far worse stories." Mad Men
Think critically 🤔
and vote accordingly.
"the American way" North and South America with all 35 American countries including the United States.
Freely think, enjoy what little time one has.
Thanks
Coupons la poire en deux. Let's decide if they are worthy of a tax exemption based on their actual revenues and how much goes toward helping people.
That's too complicated. Tax them just like any other business. America is NOT a Christian nation, or a nation of any religion. If someone wants to live in such a country, they exist. Iran comes to mind.
There are 35 American countries including the United States. Unfourtantly some do proclaim to be Christian nations. Please research "America" starting with Amerigo Vespucci. Thanks
'Murica? 😉
MAGA? 😆
I guess my country is too complicated.
That's the standard for non-religious nonprofits.
Funny, it's how it works here. Actually, scratch that. Last time I checked regulations were more strict for religious charities for a tax exemption 😁
Especially the Megachurches, smaller ones could get a break based on actual charity work done serving their community.
I was thinking of the mega churches when I made that statement. Joel Osteen could feed all the hungry in several countries and then some. I wonder how many of the people in his community went hungry tonight?
Guess we know which way SCOTUS will lean when Holy Mother Church attacks mandatory reporting of its clergy for child sexual abuse via the confessional.
As if there was any doubt.
Those "pro-lifers" know that THEY won't have to pay the price for their actions.
Let see how will they cope with drumpster next stunt. I didn't watch it but I saw a video in my YouTube feed about how drumpster or one of his mignon wants to let the States decide for interracial marriages.
I still say Thomas looks at himself in the mirror and sees a white guy.
Well I wouldn't call Clarence Thomas Trump's minion. He may rule in Trump's favor on everything, but that's because Thomas has been far right longer than Trump has.
I am not encouraged by this. It would have been one thing if this were a 6-3 decision, with the liberal wing of the court voting against. Not only was the decision 9-0, but Justice Sonia Sotomayor wrote the opinion!
Someone please tell me why I shouldn't believe that SCOTUS, along with Trump in the Executive Branch and the Republicans in Congress, haven't utterly jumped the shark with this crap. PLEASE.
6/9 Supremes are of the RCC persuasion... The wall of separation is being bulldozed.
When the evangelicals establish far-right Protestant Christianity, and the Supremes establish Catholic Christianity, then the US will have the Troubles.
Entirely possible. I had a field service call to Derry, Northern Ireland, to install a test system at Seagate, many years ago and not long after the resolution of "The Troubles." My repeated experience there outside of work was when someone would hear my "American accent" and ask what I was doing there. I would tell them and their response, almost without exception, was "GREAT!" More than anything, THEY WANTED JOBS, and Seagate was hiring.
I can't help noticing that Trump's actions here in the US is having a markedly negative effect on employment. Add that to the whole religious crap, and what do you get?
They are riding the same cart together now, but if we get to the Gilead stage, they will try to exterminate each other.
Bring
It
On
👏
Welcome to Renaissance Europe. Please excuse us for staying in the 21st century.
Interesting perspective
Yeah ... I noticed. [deeper sigh]
Sotomayor's argued that sincerely religious organizations should not be compelled by the state to genuflect and pray and do all sorts of religious stuff just to get the tax break. If they just want to be quiet about their religious aspect and do charitable things, they should still get it.
Which is a reasonable argument....until you realize that the unintended consequences of "the court can't look at the nonprofit's behavior to assess credibility" is that the courts can no longer distinguish the 'doing it for the money' cons from the folks the legislation was intended to help.
That is one hell of a loophole, big enough to drive a Kenworth through. And the religious types will suss it out, sooner or later.
Merde, alors.
Well my point is that this ruling is not any sort of sign that the Sotomayor and the other libs on the bench have bought the christian dominionist kool-aid. It's a crappy ruling and I think it's going to make the problem of religious exceptionalism worse - but it's a crappy ruling coming from a legit idea that the state should not make dancing bears of charities before giving them a tax break.
IKR. I personally was completely shocked that all of the progressive justices sided with the other six conservatives, on really such a legally flimsy opinion, at least to me. There is absolutely no indication that the Wisconsin court purposely targeted the CCB or was bigoted towards it due to their particular faith.
I got nothin'.
Me either [sigh]. Think I'll go work the Wordle.
Since everyone and their cousin has probably mentioned taxing the @#$(*%) churches again, I'd like to point out something else for a moment.
The RCC is likely one of the wealthiest groups around, and has been for centuries now. They have staggering amounts of property, art, history, and funds to use however they see fit for the promotion of their views, and do not reasonably need any assistance paying taxes. Yet here we are, watching as they insist they don't need to pay for a system that supports 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑜𝑤𝑛 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 - 𝑝𝑟𝑖𝑜𝑟 𝑒𝑚𝑝𝑙𝑜𝑦𝑒𝑒𝑠 - when they likely need the support of that very system desperately. To be clear, the RCC is effectively 𝑢𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑤𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑡ℎ 𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑐𝑖𝑓𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 𝑎𝑠 𝑎 𝑤𝑒𝑎𝑝𝑜𝑛 𝑎𝑔𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑐𝑙𝑎𝑖𝑚 𝑡𝑜 𝑙𝑜𝑣𝑒. Thinking, at this point, that the RCC loves its wealth more than it does its people is, quite fairly, completely reasonable.
Christians may or may not practice the 'religion of love' but I think it's completely fair to respond to that with "Not any kind of love I'd ever want to be involved with."
I don't know for sure, but I don't think any of my cousins would be for taxing churches. : )
How much has the catholic mafia paid for preferential treatment, which justices got bought off and for how much?
They didn't have to cough up much. They already had 6 Justices in their pockets.
Yeah, but those mooks don't come cheap. Clarence and Sammy, esp, have champagne tastes.
The new Pope has a purpose. Order or all heads shall roll.
Fuck SCOTUS. That is all.
Wisconsin should just repeal the 1972 law. Now nobody gets an exemption!
Catholic-dominated SCOTUS hands Catholics a victory. Shocking! Shocking, I say! :S
(9-0? Et tu, "liberals?" We're so very screwed)
I don't think the Court is ready to declare Christianity to be the only belief system that counts as religion. Yet.
https://ibb.co/B52WTf17
I need memes – where is everyone getting them from I can't find them!
https://ibb.co/TMsqXCBr
Yes.
𝐶𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑠 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑐𝑒𝑙𝑒𝑏𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑎𝑠 𝑎 𝑣𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑦 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑑𝑜𝑚, 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦’𝑟𝑒 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑠𝑎𝑦𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑙𝑜𝑢𝑑 𝑖𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑚𝑒𝑎𝑛𝑠 𝑖𝑡’𝑙𝑙 𝑏𝑒 ℎ𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑒𝑙𝑝 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑚𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝑣𝑢𝑙𝑛𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦’𝑟𝑒 𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑘.
That's because they 𝘄𝗮𝗻𝘁 it to be harder for the state to help people. They want to be seen as the champion of the working class by highlighting their supposed commitment to "traditional" values, and celebrating harming the vulnerable working class undermines that.
As an example, my Congrasshole, Tim Walberg, sent an email newsletter claiming to want to make health care more affordable and available to everyone. After having voted for the "big beautiful bill" taking health care from millions.
Sotomayor's narrowing of the ruling leads me to believe that the Justices are all starting to get on board with the Free Exercise clause supremacy pushed by the conservative wing. She just wanted to maintain what little she could of the Establishment Clause.
We've said it 100 times, Joe: The cruelty IS the point.
We've said it 100 times 𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘩.
I've said it a few times myself.
Rethuglikkkans...especially xtian ones...are outright sadists.
Oh hey, another Michigander! I also have a republikkkan congressperson (at least, they claim to be a person, but I'm like 75% convinced it's just chatgpt)
Well, there’s a bright side to this. When these religious organizations start firing their employees, and the employee is finding that they cannot get unemployment compensation, maybe they’ll figure out why they can’t get it.
SCROTUS maybe claiming that this is neutrality towards religion, but ultimately, it’s only neutral towards some religions and not others. And it certainly not being neutral to the population that has no religion and must subsidize what religion gets from the state.
I have been very reluctant for many years to donate anything to any organization which is affiliated with any religious organization. The last time I did, let us just say that all of my misgivings were rapidly fulfilled, and I decided to not do it again. With this ruling, I will be absolutely sure not to donate to any organization affiliated with any religion.
Your decision could become problematic, because SCOTUS just gave perfectly normal, secular charities a big financial incentive to partner with a religious organization.
It's very much like when the government started creating small-business-only contracts, the Booz's and Boeings started inventing token partnerships so they could bid on those contracts. Well, why would an organization like Red Cross *not* partner with a religious organization and keep doing exactly what they are doing, if it means they get out of a state tax? We can also expect some pop-up 'religious' organizations to serve this exact purpose. It won't just be the RCC hospitals that avoid the tax, it'll be *every* private hospital and clinic. They will all suddenly find a reason to be doing religious work for the New 2025 Reformed Church of St. Capone the Tax Evader.
Secular charities are already eligible for tax exemption. The ones with integrity won't partner with religious organizations to get out of giving their employees unemployment protection.
Never ever count on any corporation's integrity to prevent them from accessing a tax break.
The good ones will simply isolate their CFO and Corporate Counsel from the more "mission oriented" part of the workforce, so that the regular workers remain oblivious to what the financial side of the house is doing.
Isn't that SOP?
SOP ?
Soup or pita ?
🤣
American corporate speak. SOP = standard operating procedure. Standard operating procedure = how the boss is going to screw you today.
How about cream of tomato soup and grilled cheese sandwiches? 😋
The law of unintended consequences.
All I can say is that when the civil war is over this is one more thing we must correct. Drop entirely the tax exemptions of churches, no more exceptions on paperwork, on laws, on taxes and fees and such for religious organizations.
Along with clearly defined protections for all people (not corporations or churches) no matter their status in minority groups like gender, LGBTQ, race, religion (or lack of) etc. There’s so much more, like you are not eligible to run for president if you have been convicted of felonies.
There is no fixing our system, not without blood unfortunately. I know that the Trump Musk meltdown currently playing out seems like the way we will get out from under this despot, but it’s only going to create a vacuum for worse idiots to take over. I do t want it, but be prepared folks.
𝐷𝑟𝑜𝑝 𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑡𝑎𝑥 𝑒𝑥𝑒𝑚𝑝𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑐ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑠, 𝑛𝑜 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑒𝑥𝑐𝑒𝑝𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑜𝑛 𝑝𝑎𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑘, 𝑜𝑛 𝑙𝑎𝑤𝑠, 𝑜𝑛 𝑡𝑎𝑥𝑒𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑓𝑒𝑒𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑠𝑢𝑐ℎ 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑜𝑟𝑔𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑧𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠.
Ironically, SCOTUS seems to be pushing the states in that direction. They're forcing the states into a binary "exceptions in law and taxes for any ridiculous religious claim, or exceptions for none" choice, and at least in a couple past cases the states have responded "okay then, none." I'm sure this won't always be the case, but it does seem like a small scale trend.
It scares Hell out of me. If our guests don't want to go home, I will not blame them.
I would rather see the churches taxed. The legitimate charities usually do more good than the churches IMO
Never will you meet more abysmal creatures than Xtians.
Republicans. It's a photo finish.
Aren't they the same thing?
If you're talking about MAGA Republicans and Christian Nationalists, there can be no doubt. One and the same.
Simplest solution:
Wisconsin, remove the religious non-profit exemption from your Wisconsin Unemployment Compensation Act.
It's either that or see the entire Act slowly drain away to nothing, as more and more businesses establish some tenuous connection to a religious organization in order to get out of paying the tax.
Yet another 'why we cannot have nice things' lawsuit. State makes a nice exemption for some little guy businesses, regulation-dodging fundies drive a truck through it, SCOTUS says you must allow the truck if you allow the little guy, State is left with the lose-lose choice of allowing the truck problem to get worse or stopping all exemptions. Fulton v Philadelphia, Carson v Makin, the list goes on and on...
Mythical beliefs v. Real live humans not getting unemployment benefits when laid off. And the winner is the mythical belief, following a trend leading to Theocracy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqkT4B-9MGk