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oraxx's avatar

The SBC is about as out of touch and tone-deaf as a religious organization can get. It is more about what they want to do to the people they hate than anything close to love and compassion. Young people are leaving in droves. I don't think they helped their cause much when so many members of their clergy pledged their unconditional love for the most grotesquely corrupt, incompetent, and immoral President in our history. Baptist intolerance just doesn't sell to the younger generation.

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Straw's avatar

I would like to know WHY the young people leave.

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oraxx's avatar

Having known some of these people personally, mostly kids who went to high school with my grand kids, they're getting away from the intollerance.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

If I had to put it in one word, I would say: internet.

A LOT of those kids have read what we've read, or something like it, and I can't imagine that they like what they see at all. There's no resonance, no commonality, nothing that they connect to, so big surprise, they take a hike.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

I think McDowell is scared because the internet doesn't suffer from the multiple filters that churches use to indoctrinate the young. Certainly, there's a lot of noise to be found, but also a lot of stuff that the church hierarchy DO NOT want them to hear ... except that they ARE hearing it and reacting to it.

A long time ago, Thunderf00t said that the internet is where religion goes to die. He wasn't wrong.

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oraxx's avatar

One thing the internet has accomplished is how it allowed people from all across the free thought spectrum to realize they were not nearly as alone as they once though.

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cdbunch's avatar

OTOH, Flat Earth.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Pre-CISE-ly!!!

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

“For 47 percent of Christian families, pornography is a major problem. 𝘈𝘴𝘴𝘰𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘧 𝘋𝘪𝘷𝘰𝘳𝘤𝘦 𝘓𝘢𝘸𝘺𝘦𝘳𝘴 came out and said that over 50 percent of divorces were directly related to pornography.”

According to Bing and Goggle there is no such organization. How can that be? A kkkristian apologist wouldn't lie would he?

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Maltnothops's avatar

Whilst I work in the financial industry, I have a more than passing expertise in the financial aspects of divorce and used to know LOTS of “family law” attorneys. Which is the term they mostly use to identify themselves.

Association of Divorce Lawyers sounds like the lie of someone who knows very, very little about Family Law.

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Bill Lawrence's avatar

What a shame that the internet is breaking the lock on "truth" that used to be the exclusive province of churches. Equal access for atheists? Horrible.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Hopefully, it saves all the kids from conversion therapy, that torture shit really pisses me off, that they would harm kids that way, they should be jailed.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

It started wirh television. Living both in the 1800's and 1980's can be too hard after a time. Especially when you have a second class* citizen status.

* If you are lucky.

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Bill Lawrence's avatar

Television today is rife with documentaries about the different periods such as the Jurassic, etc in the earth's history, how dinosaurs gave way to smaller mammals, how hominids evolved on an earth that is NOT 6,000 years old. And for those growing up in the age of the Hubble and Webb Telescopes bringing home the incredible vastness of the universe, it must be hard to imagine that a stone age tribal god waved whatever passes for his hand and created the whole thing. The absurdity is there for all to see.

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Straw's avatar

And TV etc. It is hard to believe in good god when what the members do is to promote evil to those they don't like.

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Psittacus Ebrius's avatar

We call them CINOs - Christian in name only.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Except there are way more of them, than actual loving christians.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

christianity has become a religion of hate, and the SBC is a "Hate Church". But what can you expect of a sect that split off because they defended slavery?

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Julie Duggan's avatar

Another reason why Republicans don't support getting rural America connected to broadband and high-speed internet. To the extent they can keep rural Americans in the dark, uneducated, low income while still getting them to vote GOP helps maintain their power grid. The bible states are filled with Christian radio blasting out from AM stations.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

🎯🎯🎯Sinclair should be trust-busted as they are a monopoly.

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xenubarb's avatar

I left church at age 13, because it was the same people I encountered at school all week long who bothered me for being a weirdo. Same shit, different day, different place.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Probably sick of the molesty adult predators.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

I am not sure, the rcc is quite "good" on that front too.

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oraxx's avatar

For sure. The SBC is hardly unique. Some of the most mean-spirited and intolerant people I've ever known never missed church. I think this was due in no small part to the way their religious organization reinforced and empowered them.

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Straw's avatar

Is it quite good on any front?

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

From NOGODZ and Bags experience it's good to make Atheists.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

They stole some pretty amazing art from cultures all around the world.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

Look at their origin - they broke away from the 'Northern' baptists because they were pro-slavery and pro-segregation while the northern ones were abolitionists.

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ericc's avatar

That's not quite correct.

The SBC was a break-off from pro-slavery but more cagey southern baptists. The majority of southern baptist churches were happy to support slavery as a US institution, but wanted to create a rule whereby preachers taking mission trips to Africa wouldn't take their black slaves along with them. Because, obviously, that makes it harder to convert the natives. The churches that became the SBC were so invested in the privilege of slave-owning that they wouldn't compromise even on that point. Like the Bible itself, "Hey, why don't we just NOT own people" was never part of that conversation.

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Marie -José Renaud's avatar

Of course not owning people wasn't part of the conversation! There were no disadvantages for them, in any way, as far as I know; to owning people.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

The net result was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. They were openly pro-slavery.

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Bill Lawrence's avatar

Ironically, it would probably not made a difference to the Africans if missionaries had a few slaves with them. Slavery is as African as apple pie is American, and it would probably have enhanced missionaries' prestige.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Yes, but there was a difference in the way most Africans practiced slavery, you eventually got freedom, through hard work or contributions to the tribe. And your children were never enslaved. They were shocked at the way it was done in the South.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

And they are so bad lifelong member and actual Christian Jimmy Carter left them, when you have lost St. Carter...

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

♫♪ And the Beat Goes On ... And the Beat Goes On ... ♪♫

Greed and aggregation of wealth at congregants' expense. Sexual assaults and rape. Castigation of the LGBTQ+ community. Working against women, against choice, and promoting subservience of women. Slowly but surely, I think people are finally seeing the true face of the Southern Baptist Convention, and they are voting with their feet. Are they going the distance and becoming atheists? Almost certainly not, but they may finally have had a bellyful of the crap that they see at the pulpit and elsewhere in their church.

As with so many other stories, followup is necessary. Still, I fully expect to see this trend continue, and I am all for it.

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Straw's avatar

I seem to remember there has been several pieces about the drop of members in various fairy-tale societies. At least in western Europe.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

It's funny how, depending of the country, things go forward or backward independently of how much religious they seem to be. Take Ireland, Malta, Spain and Poland on the abortion and LGBTQI+ right to marry front.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

The RCC seems to hold its vassal states (such as Ireland) back in modern society. Once Ireland threw off the shackles and joined the modern day, they began to prosper.

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James Clark's avatar

The SBC did play a part in my choice to embrace atheism.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

The RCC played a large part in me coming to the realization that religion was shite.

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James Clark's avatar

Me also, SBC just pushed me over the edge.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

The slowdown is not surprising, as it may only be a temporary slowdown or it may be that there since there are fewer people in the religion, there are fewer people to leave it. What also will not be surprising is the SBC's response. Most likely it will be a doubling or tripling or quadrupling down on the very ideas that are driving young people away. It is expected to become more fundamentalist, strict, inflexible as the remaining members are going to be the ones who believe the strongest, either too old to change their minds, or just too convinced their right, or both. The leadership has already shown that their only idea to keep people in the pews is to become more and more fundy.

I expect the slide to keep speeding up and slowing down over the next couple decades, there may even be some uptick in the future, but I'm betting it will come to a head soon with the sect becoming fringe at some point.

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Old Man Shadow's avatar

[The SBC took in $10,027,338,119 in 2023. That’s over $10 billion. It’s more than they took in in 2022.]

And I wonder how much of that is going to helping the poor, feeding the hungry, paying the medical bills of the sick?

Just kidding, I have a pretty good idea of how much is being spent on that.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Hey ! I will let you know you can't be a good passtor if you don't have a couple of luxury cars and a private jet.

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cdbunch's avatar

Can't ride in a tube full of demons*. That would be ungodly.

* Not literally, but figuratively I could see it. I *hate* flying commercial.

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xenubarb's avatar

"Be the demon!"

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

It's sure to be better when you are hobbit sized.

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cdbunch's avatar

First Class is tolerable, but too expensive, and you still have to contend with the vagrancies of scheduling.

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Matri's avatar

And you will still be stuck in that tube with the other peasants.

And you might even be sharing First Class with other peasants too!

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NOGODZ20's avatar

And a mansion.

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Matri's avatar

Only one? A TRUE Christian pastor has to have at least 6!

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NOGODZ20's avatar

With helicopter pads for the REAL Prosperity types.

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avis piscivorus's avatar

Don't forget the pool, and how much it will cost them to pay for the services of the pool boy.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

At least the pool boy gets some out of it.

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Marie -José Renaud's avatar

You're just being wrongheaded about who the poors aare! THEY are the poors who needs help, THEY are WORTHY poors! /s

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

probably something like $2.75.

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Elia's avatar

This slower decline is just a prolonged death rattle for the SBC. Can't say I'm very sorry to see it.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

I want to know what it's going to take to take down the Osteens and the Copelands and the Hagees and all the others like them. These are the people who have enriched themselves at the congregants' expense, while sufficiently bamboozling them to the point where questioning the leaders' behaviors is all but out of the question.

I want those fuckers to go down, and I mean so hard that they fucking 𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗡𝗖𝗘.

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cdbunch's avatar

I'd prefer they SPLAT.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Always an option! 😉

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Julie Duggan's avatar

Not sure if I've ever seen you drop the F bomb, and twice no doubt. Lol

The congregants need to wake the hell up, I think that's the only way these big grifters are going to be brought down. Unless they can be investigated for tax fraud or embezzlement or insider trading, abise, etc, which I'm sure is happening because that is what grifters do.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

What can I say? Those guys (and they're mostly guys) piss me off and get away with it, with rare exceptions. This is why I can barely watch the movie 𝑆𝑝𝑜𝑡𝑙𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡 without wanting to throw something at the screen.

And they almost all of 'em get a pass because faith ... and that should piss any thinking person off.

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ericc's avatar

SBC leadership is likely to be just as foxy as the most corrupt CEO. If the company goes bankrupt, absent a jail sentence they will leave with a massive golden parachute. Thus even if the SBC were to suddenly implode, you can expect that the highest richest echelons of it would just get richer out of it, not poorer.

So it's probably never gonna happen. The only way they fall is a criminal charge. Plus maybe, as the political saying goes, being caught in bed with a dead girl or live boy.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Like Jim Bakker?

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

That was live sex worker named Debbie, IIRC. Poor Debbie they did not pay her enough.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Yes, there is something so offensive about their smarmy conman routine.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Quick OT

Happy 75th birthday to musician extraordinaire and atheist Billy Joel.

(He'll be at T-Mobile Park in my city on the 24th. First time in 8 years)

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

I've seen him three times, twice with Elton John. Rocked the house each time, and I was honored to be one of over 20,000 voices to sing along to "Piano Man" for all three. I love his energy, his desire to teach and share what he knows.

The man is for real.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

My HS boyfriend worked on his stage show Moving Out back in the early 00s, he worked on the travelling show, not the one that stayed on Broadway. He worked on many traveling Broadway shows. I was lucky to go see it when it was in Denver, and didn't know he'd be there but saw his name in the program. We went to dinner after the show with my friend and he talked about meeting Billy Joel and (IIRC) Twila Tharpe. (there's my 2 degrees of separation with Billy Joel)

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cdbunch's avatar

I wonder if it's still Rock n' Roll.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

For Billy, I doubt it ever was anything else.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Even before BJ found himself in a piano bar, he played in a two-piece metal band called Attila. The project was not a success and even he dubbed it "psychedelic bullshit." It was never meant to be taken seriously (the cover of their sole LP showed a shoulder-length curly haired and mustachioed Joel with partner Jon Small, both clad in armor)

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Matri's avatar

Didn’t he just release a new music video just a few weeks ago?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Yup. I posted it twice when it first came out (once audio only and once with the official video).

So beautifully done it brought a tear to my eye.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Saw him on the "Stormfront" tour, man is he a great performer.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Dagnabbit Chrischuns, you ain't prayin' hard enuff!

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

Howard Johnson is right!

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Val Uptuous Johnson is right about Howard Johnson bein' right.

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Mike Hammer's avatar

Blazing Saddles! 🤣

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NOGODZ20's avatar

You can't miss when you've got good material to work with. :)

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painedumonde's avatar

Dagnabbit, they ain't paying hard enough!

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

What!?! $10 billion isn't enough for you?

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cdbunch's avatar

Jeff apparently doesn't think so, hence he's now facing unions.

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Matri's avatar

That’s what’s known in his circles as “pocket money”.

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Old Man Shadow's avatar

Close. The leaders will blame the pastors, the pastors will blame congregants for not annoying others with Jesus sales pitches enough.

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Erp's avatar

Some of the membership decline may be due to local churches leaving the denomination (for instance the SBC kicked out a few who had women pastors). The SBC has 292 fewer churches in the same report (this would be a combo of churches closing as well as churches leaving).

Also some of the newly baptized (or rebaptized) may not have realized they are now SBC; a fair number of churches are hiding their SBC affiliation so well that many of their own members aren't aware of it.

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ericc's avatar

Yeah I looked at that, but it turns out that's only 18% of the decline. So out of ~1,200 churches the SBC lost in 2022, ~1,000 of them shut down/disbanded altogether, while about 200 of them left the SBC fold but continued to operate.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Will they have an epiphany and enter the 20th century before or after the last boomers die ?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

As a Boomer, I stick around to be a pain in the side of Christians. We'll see who blinks first. ;)

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

You cover the West Coast. I got the North Coast ... and I don't think either of us is blinkin'!

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Donrox's avatar

You cover Cleveland, this boomer is staring them down in the Bible belt Mid-South

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Gotta ask: How was NdGT last night?

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Have to say it: if Neil is ANYWHERE near you, just GO. He was at once, entertaining, informative, and yes, inspiring. It was darn near 2-1/2 hours of GREAT FUN, and my gal and I enjoyed the daylights out of it.

I should mention, too, it was our second time seeing him. First time was something over a year ago, when we "worked" the State Theater as members of the Playhouse Square "Red Coats," the ushers and assistants who help make Playhouse Square run. His talk that time was: "An Astrophysicist Goes to the Movies," and as with this time ("Delusions of Space Enthusiasts"), he was just a pure delight.

I'm hoping to make NdGT a yearly thing, whether we go as audience members or work it as Red Coats. Totally worth it!

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

You are an angel.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I should hide those horns...with a TST beanie. :D

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Personally, I think a wataboshi would suit you better.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

A Pac-Man hat? Maybe at the next Shinto wedding I attend. ;)

(Wish I could've attended the wedding of Gene Roddenberry and Majel Barrett. It was a Shinto ceremony)

*Once got to meet Majel and their son Eugene. Good people*

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

You ain't so bad, yerself! 😁

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Except I ain't weeping.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Then I'll go ahead and blink.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

*High fives you.* I'm at the last years of Boomers My husband is around the first year. His mother was a ministers daughter so that cured him!

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cdbunch's avatar

They might have an epiphany and join the 20th sometime in the mid-22nd.

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Matri's avatar

They are behind the curve and damned proud of it!

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Matri's avatar

Are you kidding? It’ll take them at least another hundred to enter the 20th century, and then two hundred after that to finally reach the 21st century.

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Straw's avatar

Is that a trick question?

My guess is right before the last 10% of boomers die.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

"Study" from a sample called "fucked up paternal family" between the late 80's and 2001. The study stopped after DM and me got the hell out of dodge.

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Richard S. Russell's avatar

"Couldn’t have happened to a more worthy organization."

I'd like to put that to a test in a public-opinion runoff poll vs. the Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses. Maybe throw in the Morms for chuckles.

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Mr.E's avatar

I think the problems with the Jehovah's Witnesses are worse then the Catholics, but less well know among the general public.

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Straw's avatar

What I know about JW (inlaws) and catholics (workmates), you are correct

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Hell, even the Amish have a sexual abuse survivor support group, and that is not well known either.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

To Barber and all advocates of conversion therapy: Let's see it tried on you to rid you of your religious delusions. How'll THAT be, eh?

How's that? Don't like the idea? Then if you can't take a dose of your own medicine you shouldn't be writing prescriptions for others.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Next time you can spare some energy by posting 🖕

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NOGODZ20's avatar

As long as I'm on a library computer, I can. No can make emojis at home. Only emoticons.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Kinda looks like a penis and balls. 😉

Or would that be oIo? 😃

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

4 balls would be a little much 🤣

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Oh, I don't know... 😄

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Whitney's avatar

Generally, whenever I hear about some church's attendance or membership numbers going down, my first reaction is something along the lines of 'that's nice.' When I hear that the SBC is losing members, though, I have to admit that makes me very, very happy. The source of so much of my childhood misery, so many of the wrong headed ideas, so much unnecessary pain, suffering, and general punching down isn't able to keep butts in the pews? Well. I'm having a great day, I guess.

Here's hoping we can hold the unattended funeral in the near future. The SBC is a blight on humanity, and deserves to die alone in a dark corner ignored by everyone.

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Julie Duggan's avatar

"rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic"

LOL

If only they would all hit an iceberg tomorrow.

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Julie Duggan's avatar

Interesting song, I like it..... it's very different than Cats in the Cradle. I like songs about true stories, like The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Gordon Lightfoot.

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cdbunch's avatar

You know, I didn't think anyone could match my hatred for Ted Fucking Cruz, but I think she might have surpassed it. I know she would have if she were my governor. (Instead I have the murderous Gregg Abbott)

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

We only have one governor. :) And I suddenly discover I have no idea of the name of my Mayor. I know the neighbouring one because she is controversial. But I'm going to have to look up mine now. :)

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cdbunch's avatar

I repeat, may she rot in pieces.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Bonus song

In Europe and America there's a growing feeling of rage

Started in response to a human threat

By the radical speech of one brunette

Miss kristi said, "I will represent you"

I won't vote for this point of view

It'd be such an dangerous thing to do

If the republicons love their pets too

How can I save my little goat from Noem's deadly gun?

There is consensus on common sense

On either side of the political fence

We share the same lovelies, regardless of ideology

Believe me when I say to you

I hope the republicons love their pets too

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

There. Bonus song coming in a few minutes

Kristi Noem, fifty-two

Asshole, born and raised

Survived a dog and a goat

Good lord

Pit gravel grave

Lead and baskets worth of worms

Dry eyes, it's no surprise

They were living on borrowed time

Who will do it?

Who would do it?

Somebody please take one for the team

Who will do it?

Who would did it?

Never gonna find out it was me

Big jerk, she killed them

Wasn't enough, hoped, needed her fifteen

'Cause blood is what she is enamored with

She waited long enough 'til they were spoiled and wild

Metal cane to the head, threw her in the sea

Ashes to ashes and flesh to fishes 

Who will do it?

Who would do it?

Never gonna find out it was me

Who will do it?

Who would do it?

Take it to the gravel, kristi, and rot in piece

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

That would make a good song.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I see her going as Cruella de Vil.

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Jarred Harris's avatar

Here's to hoping the trend continues until the SBC is no more.

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Kiwiwriter47's avatar

It started falling off after "Sanford and Son" was cancelled, ending Lawanda Gaines' character "Aunt Esther," who was the loudest Baptist in the world.

By the way, Ms. Gaines owed that role to growing up with Redd Foxx. Both were class clowns and rising comedians in St. Louis. When he got the role, he saw the "Aunt Esther" role, said it would be perfect for Lawanda, and she didn't just take it, she inhabited it. They had perfect chemistry as feuding in-laws.

Oddly enough, in nightclubs, Lawanda Gaines' stand-up routine was the opposite of "Aunt Esther"...it was extremely raunchy.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Page.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

FWIW, she was born/named Alberta Richardson. 🙂

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