Why do xtians find atheist displays "objectionable," yet have NO objections to a beaten, bleeding man nailed to and hanging from a wooden torture/execution device? Something Catholic children see every time they go to Mass?
You know the answer: Christian Fucking Privilege. They insist that they have the correct beliefs, and anything directly counter to that is evil and not allowed by default.
Beat (!) me to it. I was just going to mention the crucifix, something I grew up seeing (in 10’ form over the altar in our parish church, and myriad smaller ones around primary school) - gruesome!
Also, that 1 day rule. Bet their nativity scene was up for a lot longer than that each year!
To this asshole, anything that doesn't explicitly push Jesus is harmful to children. A game of volleyball? Harmful to children unless there is a prayer before the game starts. School lunch? Poison until the kid is forced to say grace.
When you try to explain to him (using small words so he is capable of understanding) that not everyone believes the way he does and that's OK, he jams his fingers into his ears and says " la la la I can't hear you". Good luck progressing to the fact that those others should have the same respect and opportunities that he is demanding for his religion alone. And this guy wanted to be governor.
More like: "Anything that isn't CHRISTIANITY FIRST." If this asshat is going to say the quiet part out loud, the least he can do is say it right. People like him want exclusivity in the public square. They may not recognize that that is their goal, but then, they're too close to it. WE SEE IT.
Where there is the expectation of privilege, equality will be seen as persecution. No group in America feels more entitled to privilege than Christians. They do not want to have to compete in the market place of ideas, and their only response is to try silencing those who oppose them. It is never the job of our secular government to backstop anyone’s religion.
My little girl lost her innocence way too soon, when she saw Jesus, who she loved, dead on the Cross in the entryway to a Methodist Church, in a display meant to celebrate Easter. She cried over how they killed Him for *days*, and her spark and curiosity stayed hidden ever after. The Preacher was like, Um duh bluh gosh! I didn’t *think* of *that*.
Christianity in the US has precious little to do with the teachings of the biblical christ at this point. It's merely another tool of white supremacy and nationalism. Imagine how the country could be if they actually followed those teachings instead of just using them as a cudgel to discriminate against anyone different from them.
"...If Iowa’s conservative leaders thought they could get away with banning a peaceful, lawful, minority-faith display from a public building, they’re about to find out the law’s not on their side..."
For now.
Eventually one of these cases will make it before the so-called Supreme Court. The Christian Fascist majority on the Court will apply their "history and tradition" criteria for deciding religious liberty cases. In short, they will decide that Christianity is part of the "history and tradition" of the U.S., but Satanism is not. Therefore, Christian displays are permitted and Satanic displays are not. That will become the new precedent that the entire country must follow. See how easy?
Welcome to the United Christian Fascist States of America.
"Honey?" "Yes, George!" "Iowa isn't letting the Satanists hold their events in town!" "Again?" "STILL!"
Once again, the Hawkeye State has a burr up their nelly because Satanism. Seems as though that guy with the horns has so traumatized some of their legislators so badly that they can't bear the thought of displays and events sponsored by The Satanic Temple. No mention of the fact that these are Satanists who don't actually WORSHIP Satan. No mention either of the Seven Tenets of The Satanic Temple. If Beelzebub is part of the business, the whole deal gets shut down.
Meanwhile, the ACLU says, "Not on OUR watch," and the battle is joined. Got beer and popcorn?
One can hardly be surprised by the lack of evidence for their claim of atheist displays being "harmful to minors." They STILL haven't produced any evidence for the existence of the faerie tale beings they bend knee to.
You would think that after all this time, it ought to be obvious that TST is just trying to point out their hierocracy - and the solution is to ban religious displays of ANY KIND, may be ANY DISPLAY! But NO! They can't seem to help themselves - and they look foolish as a result!
Let's be honest. If some of the displays of Jesus on the cross are pretty grim then the same could be said for the symbol of the Satanic Temple. It does look like something you'd see in a horror film as the baddie. Even so, if Christians can have a display then I don't see how you can block the Satanic Temple from having their own display. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that the display will be vandalized sooner than later. If we Christians value religious freedom then we should be supporting the lawsuit.
David, the reason TST's symbols look like "something you'd see in a horror film as the baddie" is Christian Fucking Privilege. Do you remember the Satanic Panic of the 80s? Horror movies drew on that, and now the symbols are just expected tropes in a horror movie. Outside of that, it should be seen as the benign symbolism that it is.
And Christians believe that it's actually based on a true story, not just some weird, scary nightmare that someone had. And - worse - they even glorify that imagery.
People know that horror films are make believe. Christians believe that the horrors Jesus was supposed to have gone though were real. And they celebrate that!
It is both something out of a horror movie AND something benign. Context matters. In a horror movie? Yep, bad guy. In everyday life? Benign. Just a symbol of religious affiliation, like a cross or a star of David.
Thinking the symbols are "creepy" is a matter of personal taste. That does not mean that the symbols are not benign. If you see someone wearing a crucifix pendant, and your first thought is "eww" instead of "that person is probably a Catholic", that's on you, not the crucifix.
If it's not immediately obvious to you that the image is one you'd expect in a horror movie then I don't think that there's anything I could say or do to convince you otherwise.
The horror image is the way it is precisely because the majority of the audience is Christian and will respond to an image that is similar to their depiction of Satan.
I suspect that anyone familiar with horror films would react the same way regardless of whether they're Christians or not. It's scary but we'll have to agree to disagree.
Why do xtians find atheist displays "objectionable," yet have NO objections to a beaten, bleeding man nailed to and hanging from a wooden torture/execution device? Something Catholic children see every time they go to Mass?
Xtians are sick sick sick.
You know the answer: Christian Fucking Privilege. They insist that they have the correct beliefs, and anything directly counter to that is evil and not allowed by default.
That is also known as fascism in some circles.
This was exactly my thought.
Also, “Catholics aren’t Real Christians “.
How about Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans and Episcopalians? They use crucifixes, too. :)
Also not Real Christians! Just ask any Christian who isn’t Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans and Episcopalians.
45.000 sects each thinking they're right and everyone else is wrong.
Beat (!) me to it. I was just going to mention the crucifix, something I grew up seeing (in 10’ form over the altar in our parish church, and myriad smaller ones around primary school) - gruesome!
Also, that 1 day rule. Bet their nativity scene was up for a lot longer than that each year!
"Harmful to minors." Said by the religion that is full-to-overflowing with child predators. A fact we see on a near-daily basis.
1) Open skull
2) Extract brain-like material
3) Close skull.
Work done.
Anyone want to tell Frankensteen that the holiday tree behind him is a pagan symbol and a violation of Jeremiah 10:1-5.
Is he gonna turn around and tear it down now as an "evil?"
If Christians were actually worried about children being indoctrinated, abused or harmed in other ways they wouldn't be Christians.
"𝑁𝑜 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑚𝑎𝑟𝑘𝑒𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑑𝑟𝑒𝑛. 𝑁𝑜 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑟𝑦𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑔𝑒𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑚 𝑡𝑜 𝑐𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑆𝑎𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑐 𝑠𝑦𝑚𝑏𝑜𝑙𝑠, 𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑆𝑎𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑐 ℎ𝑦𝑚𝑛𝑠, 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑆𝑎𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑐 𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑢𝑎𝑙𝑠. 𝑁𝑜 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑡ℎ 𝑖𝑛𝑣𝑜𝑙𝑣𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑛 𝑐𝑜𝑠𝑡𝑢𝑚𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑠𝑡𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑑𝑒𝑝𝑖𝑐𝑡 𝑤𝑒𝑎𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑢𝑠𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑎𝑏𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑡ℎ. 𝑇ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑒𝑥𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑖𝑜𝑛. 𝐼𝑡’𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒 𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑒𝑐ℎ. 𝐼𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑒𝑣𝑖𝑙."
𝐻𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑎𝑠𝑘𝑒𝑑 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡, 𝑖𝑓 𝑎𝑛𝑦, 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑓𝑠 𝑚𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡 𝑏𝑒 “ℎ𝑎𝑟𝑚𝑓𝑢𝑙 𝑡𝑜 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑑𝑟𝑒𝑛.” 𝐻𝑖𝑠 𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑒? “𝐴𝑛𝑦𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝐺𝑜𝑑 𝑓𝑖𝑟𝑠𝑡.”
To this asshole, anything that doesn't explicitly push Jesus is harmful to children. A game of volleyball? Harmful to children unless there is a prayer before the game starts. School lunch? Poison until the kid is forced to say grace.
When you try to explain to him (using small words so he is capable of understanding) that not everyone believes the way he does and that's OK, he jams his fingers into his ears and says " la la la I can't hear you". Good luck progressing to the fact that those others should have the same respect and opportunities that he is demanding for his religion alone. And this guy wanted to be governor.
“𝐴𝑛𝑦𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝐺𝑜𝑑 𝑓𝑖𝑟𝑠𝑡.”
More like: "Anything that isn't CHRISTIANITY FIRST." If this asshat is going to say the quiet part out loud, the least he can do is say it right. People like him want exclusivity in the public square. They may not recognize that that is their goal, but then, they're too close to it. WE SEE IT.
And we don't like it, not one lousy little bit.
Where there is the expectation of privilege, equality will be seen as persecution. No group in America feels more entitled to privilege than Christians. They do not want to have to compete in the market place of ideas, and their only response is to try silencing those who oppose them. It is never the job of our secular government to backstop anyone’s religion.
If they really want to ban satanic displays they should ban the cross amongst other so called Christian symbols as well.
My little girl lost her innocence way too soon, when she saw Jesus, who she loved, dead on the Cross in the entryway to a Methodist Church, in a display meant to celebrate Easter. She cried over how they killed Him for *days*, and her spark and curiosity stayed hidden ever after. The Preacher was like, Um duh bluh gosh! I didn’t *think* of *that*.
They never do, or damned near. They're so inured with the imagery that they fail to recognize what is really being displayed.
Then, too, some people need a cold dash of water (or a slap in the face!) to wake up.
How did she know about Jesus enough to love him without hearing what happened to him?
Christmas and sanitized Sunday School. That Easter display was the first time she learned the whole story. She was only three.
The idea of sending a three year old to Sunday school terrifies me.
Me too, now. That is the culture our ancestors encouraged to bloom and fester, which we don’t have to support or even tolerate now.
Not my ancestors. Don't excuse bad behavior.
What did your ancestors do to shape our world?
Just another case of religious freedom for me, but not for thee.
Personally, I would like to see a display that focuses on the fact that Christian Christmas is a usurpation of pagan winter solstice celebrations.😁
That would be novel!
Super cool holiday display!
Christianity in the US has precious little to do with the teachings of the biblical christ at this point. It's merely another tool of white supremacy and nationalism. Imagine how the country could be if they actually followed those teachings instead of just using them as a cudgel to discriminate against anyone different from them.
Feed, clothe and house the poor/needy? Why, that's SOSHULISM!!!
"...If Iowa’s conservative leaders thought they could get away with banning a peaceful, lawful, minority-faith display from a public building, they’re about to find out the law’s not on their side..."
For now.
Eventually one of these cases will make it before the so-called Supreme Court. The Christian Fascist majority on the Court will apply their "history and tradition" criteria for deciding religious liberty cases. In short, they will decide that Christianity is part of the "history and tradition" of the U.S., but Satanism is not. Therefore, Christian displays are permitted and Satanic displays are not. That will become the new precedent that the entire country must follow. See how easy?
Welcome to the United Christian Fascist States of America.
I hope you are wrong but I damn sure am not going to bet against you. The future is bleak but I'm still interested in getting there.
"Honey?" "Yes, George!" "Iowa isn't letting the Satanists hold their events in town!" "Again?" "STILL!"
Once again, the Hawkeye State has a burr up their nelly because Satanism. Seems as though that guy with the horns has so traumatized some of their legislators so badly that they can't bear the thought of displays and events sponsored by The Satanic Temple. No mention of the fact that these are Satanists who don't actually WORSHIP Satan. No mention either of the Seven Tenets of The Satanic Temple. If Beelzebub is part of the business, the whole deal gets shut down.
Meanwhile, the ACLU says, "Not on OUR watch," and the battle is joined. Got beer and popcorn?
Anyone who finds the 7 Tenets either evil or harmful to minors needs professional help.
Not just yeah, but HELL, YEAH!!!
One can hardly be surprised by the lack of evidence for their claim of atheist displays being "harmful to minors." They STILL haven't produced any evidence for the existence of the faerie tale beings they bend knee to.
You would think that after all this time, it ought to be obvious that TST is just trying to point out their hierocracy - and the solution is to ban religious displays of ANY KIND, may be ANY DISPLAY! But NO! They can't seem to help themselves - and they look foolish as a result!
Let's be honest. If some of the displays of Jesus on the cross are pretty grim then the same could be said for the symbol of the Satanic Temple. It does look like something you'd see in a horror film as the baddie. Even so, if Christians can have a display then I don't see how you can block the Satanic Temple from having their own display. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that the display will be vandalized sooner than later. If we Christians value religious freedom then we should be supporting the lawsuit.
David, the reason TST's symbols look like "something you'd see in a horror film as the baddie" is Christian Fucking Privilege. Do you remember the Satanic Panic of the 80s? Horror movies drew on that, and now the symbols are just expected tropes in a horror movie. Outside of that, it should be seen as the benign symbolism that it is.
I can think of a REAL religious horror film. It's called "The Passion of the Christ."
Absolutely gruesome torture porn.
Violence and torture porn of the first water.
And Christians believe that it's actually based on a true story, not just some weird, scary nightmare that someone had. And - worse - they even glorify that imagery.
If so then I'm glad that I've never seen it. Thanks for the heads-up.
Different strokes for different folks. You see it as benign and I see it as something out of a horror movie. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
People know that horror films are make believe. Christians believe that the horrors Jesus was supposed to have gone though were real. And they celebrate that!
Right but the horrors Jesus went through led to something that Christians think is really wonderful - forgiveness and reconciliation with God.
A God that is nowhere proven to even exist. And why celebrate the horrors of him supposedly being on the cross rather than the joyous outcome?
I don't use either a plain cross or a crucifix as part of my worship but I think that the crucifix reminds us of the price paid for our forgiveness.
It is both something out of a horror movie AND something benign. Context matters. In a horror movie? Yep, bad guy. In everyday life? Benign. Just a symbol of religious affiliation, like a cross or a star of David.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I find both the crucifix and the Satanic Temple image to be creepy.
Thinking the symbols are "creepy" is a matter of personal taste. That does not mean that the symbols are not benign. If you see someone wearing a crucifix pendant, and your first thought is "eww" instead of "that person is probably a Catholic", that's on you, not the crucifix.
There is nothing grim about the satanic display. It doesn't depict torture and murder like the xtian death cult does.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Could you please explain where you see the torture and murder in the satanic display.
He sees imaginary beings and thinks they’re real.
If it's not immediately obvious to you that the image is one you'd expect in a horror movie then I don't think that there's anything I could say or do to convince you otherwise.
Circular reasoning.
The horror image is the way it is precisely because the majority of the audience is Christian and will respond to an image that is similar to their depiction of Satan.
I suspect that anyone familiar with horror films would react the same way regardless of whether they're Christians or not. It's scary but we'll have to agree to disagree.
Ah, OK - so you were making up that claim.
Is Die Anyway in his comment below also making things up?