248 Comments
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Old Man Shadow's avatar

[the book describes wars fought by Christians, such as the Crusades, as intended to defend and protect other Christians.]

Ah, yes... which is why the Crusaders famously murdered a lot of Christians, sacked Constantinople, and committed genocide in Jerusalem.

Also where the famous phrase was spoken to kill them all because God would know his own.

Hell, we don't even have to go back to the middle ages, let's ask people in Northern Ireland how loving and compassionate Christianity was 20 years ago when shit was blowing up and people were murdered in the name of Christ for having the wrong faith and politics.

oraxx's avatar

If you want to see what genuine persecution looks like, hand power to the preachers.

jpg's avatar

Yes, the 4th Crusade (sacking of Constantinople) is my favorite Crusade. Of course there’s always the 30 yrs war, I especially enjoy Catholic France’s actions supporting the Protestants. And of course the beginnings, the defenestration of Catholics in Prague by the Protestants.

I’m sure Hegseth and company will cover these glorious Christian moments in history.

Kathlyn's avatar

You don’t even need to go that far back…

Linda's avatar

Manifest Destiny, American chattel slavery, Jim Crow laws. Also, an estimated 15% to 30% of enslaved Africans brought to North America were Muslims, and they faced systematic, institutional pressure from white slaveholders to abandon their faith and convert to Christianity.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑏𝑜𝑜𝑘 𝑑𝑒𝑠𝑐𝑟𝑖𝑏𝑒𝑠 𝐼𝑠𝑙𝑎𝑚 𝑎𝑠 𝑖𝑛ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑙𝑦 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑣𝑖𝑜𝑙𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑡𝑦.

Ummm ... January 6th, 2021, anyone?

Old Man Shadow's avatar

The entire history of Europe since the Reformation too. The "age of exploration"... colonialism... the missions... the Magdalena laundries... Native Americans... the KKK... lynchings... the civil rights movement response by white Christians...

Joe King's avatar

What about the history of Europe before the Reformation? The Church was handed the power of the state before 400 c.e.

Allen Markham's avatar

Or, perhaps, Trump's war with Iran.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Yeah, there sure is that, isn't there?

Psittacus Ebrius's avatar

The Holocaust occurred in Christian Europe.

David Graf's avatar

Right but the Armenian Holocaust occurred in a Muslim nation. True believers are scared of those who are not like them and they relieve their fears by persecuting and killing others.

Melanie Cline's avatar

Doesn’t count; those “patriots” all got righteously pardoned. /s

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Uh-huh ... and September 11th, 2001 was just another summer day, too. 😝

David Graf's avatar

I think their reply would be September 11, 2001. True believers of any faith be it religious or secular are more than willing to commit acts of violence and murder to get their way.

Joe King's avatar

The easiest counter to that is to point out that the KKK and other white supremacist groups are explicitly Christian. Not to mention incidents like the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing and the Tulsa Race Massacre.

foofaraw & Chiquita(ARF!)'s avatar

Dr. George Tiller, shot dead as he entered his church.

Ethereal Fairy's avatar

The very Catholic Hitler, and his troops (with Gott Mitt Uns "God is with us" on their belt buckles) killing Jewish persons and Romany and LGBTQ, and anyone who disagreed with them.

David Graf's avatar

And, they in turn would bring up counterexamples of violence committed by members of other religions. As long as someone thinks that their beliefs be they secular or religious can justify violence, we're going to have this problem. It's a shame that Trump went with someone like Hegseth.

Joe King's avatar

Trump went with Whiskey Pete because he would uphold Trump's desire to turn the military into white conservative men with itchy trigger fingers loyal to Trump and not loyal to the Constitution. Hell, they want to rename an aircraft carrier after Trump because it was originally going to be named after s black man.

RegularJoe's avatar

"Doris is a chick's name, Sir. We really should name it after the most High-T manly man I know: Donald John Trump!" ~ P. Kegbreath, SecDerp

Joe King's avatar

Trump will sign an executive order mandating he/him pronouns to refer to the ship instead of the customary she/her.

Joe King's avatar

To counter their counter: "So you agree that it is religious extremism that is the problem, regardless of which particular faith it stems from."

Len Koz's avatar

I'm pretty sure DG thinks Muslims are coming to kill him in his sleep.

David Graf's avatar

No. I have Muslim friends and interact with Muslims at the hospital where I volunteer. True believers like Hegseth worry me.

David Graf's avatar

I would say that the problem are true believers whether they be secular or religious. The followers of Marx could be just as bloodthirsty as the Inquisition when it came to dealing with people who did not share their views.

RegularJoe's avatar

Julius seems to get all the attention, but my favorite is Adolph Marx. 😉

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Point being: radical, fundamentalist religions generally don't play well with others. For them, it's my way or the highway, and that goes for all three Abrahamic religions. The problem with Hegseth is that he doesn't want to acknowledge the entire playing field, but skew the attention AWAY from Christianity.

He cannot be allowed to do that.

RegularJoe's avatar

Although there are others, 9/11 is likely the only one most folks can name.....but they just *know* there're countless others.

Joe King's avatar

𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑡𝑒𝑥𝑡𝑏𝑜𝑜𝑘’𝑠 𝑎𝑢𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑟𝑠 𝑐𝑟𝑒𝑑𝑖𝑡 𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑙𝑦 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑚𝑜𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑎 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑚𝑢𝑠𝑡 𝑏𝑒 𝑡𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑑 ℎ𝑢𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑒𝑙𝑦.

Like the slave trade? Nowhere in the bible is slavery condemned. Nowhere in the bible does it even hint that women are people, too. Out of the last 20 centuries of Christianity, only for the last 1.5 has Christianity slowly moved toward the realization that women are leople and that slavery is bad. And how many Christians just like Whiskey Pete want to turn back the clock?

𝐼𝑡 𝑎𝑟𝑔𝑢𝑒𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 “𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛 𝑓𝑎𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑠𝑢𝑝𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑎 ℎ𝑢𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑠𝑚𝑜𝑝𝑜𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑠𝑚.”

Uh-oh. Kegsbreath better be careful. "Humane cosmopolitanism" is awfully close to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.

Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

Alright folks, here’s the real deal. If we do not vote in November and wipe the board with the Republicans, there will not be an USA anymore. Call me cynical or hyperbolic, but this needs to be ended, now. Anymore leeway for these monsters and they will win. The primaries got plenty of progressives and the centrists can be managed, but we need to end every single GOP candidate’s careers for good. And I feel like we are moving past the point of no violent return.

Whitney's avatar

Living in a reddish state, it seems to me like most folks don't understand how bad it's getting quite yet. That's not to say you're wrong, just that the public seems to be turning a blind eye right now, and yeah, that's going to hurt in the long run. I'm worried about what cleaning up the mess might look like in 2028/2029; and if there will even be another presidential election considering just how much SCOTUS is letting DJT get away with.

I'm having a hard time sleeping some nights, hope the rest of you are doing better.

Linda's avatar

You are not wrong at all

Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

I will do what I can, but in my neck of the woods, it won't make much of a difference. We did get rid of most of the absolute worst of the worst in the primaries, but those that won weren't much better.

NOGODZ20's avatar

Casting Islam as inherently more violent than Christiany? Islam didn't create/run the Inquisitions. The Witch Hunts were also a Christian enterprise, as were the Conquistadors, the convert-or-die missionaries and the slaughter of indiginous peoples of this hemisphere. Christians even went so far as to practice cannibalism on the Muslims during the Crusades.

Len Koz's avatar

How about that lovely 4th crusade? Never made it to the Holy Land, sacked the Christian-run city of Constantinople instead in 1204.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Ummm ... how about the Malleus Maleficarum? Promoting violence against women?

Joan the Dork's avatar

Nat-Cs' answer to all of their religion's historical atrocities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b85ZCywAvR4

David Graf's avatar

True but Islam expanded for several hundred years through violence by conquering other nations. Later, they exhibited a degree of tolerance which was anathema to Christendom which embraced violence against non-Christians as in the Spanish Reconquista. I think that most people whatever their beliefs want to live in peace but the true believers won't be satisfied with that.

NancyPhillips's avatar

Constantine imposed his preferred version of Christianity as the state religion. Jews were ALWAYS persecuted in Christian countries. Sure, there were peaceful monks who sailed to remote islands and evangelized - but empires always try to expand, and that's no different in Christian-ruled empires than in early Muslim-ruled empires. The specific type of religion is used as a tool, a unifying political / social factor in conquest. Note that the founding myth (Mayflower, etc) of the USA is that settlers were Christian and were escaping persecution by other Christians in their home countries. 99% of "religious" motivation is indistinguishable from efforts to grab territory and assets.

David Graf's avatar

True but early Christianity for a few centuries spread through individual conversions as compared to Islam which used military force to spread itself across the world. But, we Christians proved that we could also use military force once we had access to it.

oraxx's avatar

The evangelicals never stop pushing their religion as the solution to all the world problems, while always turning a blind eye to the countless horrors perpetrated by Christians in the name of Christianity. Pickled Pete Hegseth is the most grotesquely incompetent and unfit person to ever lead our military.

Stephen Brady's avatar

Well, what do you expect from people who are certain that the Bible is ‘inerrant’? This text book starts with that premise and then adds that white christians are always right. It is just another instance of Christian Nationalism screaming hooray for our tribe!

oraxx's avatar

There is little to nothing in the way of objective evidence to validate the Bible.

Stephen Brady's avatar

And it was written, rewritten, and heavily edited over about an 800 year period. If we had the autograph (originally released version) of each book, it would be a completely different critter.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

A completely different critter, perhaps, but no more credible than it currently is.

oraxx's avatar

Divine inspiration isn't an explanation, it's an excuse

Whitney's avatar

I'd call it special pleading, actually, but fair enough.

Melanie Cline's avatar

I almost feel bad for the people I know who seem to think that because some real historic places and people are mentioned in the Bible, that is ‘proves’ it is an historic account of events.

NOGODZ20's avatar

Of course, I respond to such folks that Spider-Man operates in New York City, so that means Spider-Man is real.

Stephen Brady's avatar

It also has boundless nonsense. The Gospels are so discordant that if you believe one, the others fall by the wayside if you don’t have mindless cognitive dissonance.

Charles Newman's avatar

"Christianity" Keep all religion out of the United States military. Start with eliminating the U.S. military spending millions to tax dollars on religions. Their nothing but trouble, causing division and discrimination.

At this time few of the top religions are actually financially supported by the U.S. military. In a country where freedom of all religions is emphasized.

https://www.military.com/dod-officially-drops-180-faiths-from-militarys-recognized-religion-list

Embarrassing and sad 😟

Joan the Dork's avatar

Oh, I believe Kimball when he claims the curriculum was peer-reviewed- trouble is, all his peers are just as pig-ignorant and bigoted as he is.

larry parker's avatar

He meant pear reviewed. Took it out to the orchard and no one complained.

NOGODZ20's avatar

I found myself getting somewhat teary when I learned she was gone.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Me too. Is there another person in this world that could match up to Dolly in her attitude and ebullience? I'm coming up empty here. 😥

Hyder Simpson's avatar

I usually don’t think too much when older celebrities die, just “well, they had a good run”. Dolly Parton though. Aside from her musical talents she was a stellar human being who had a positive impact on millions with her philanthropy and her down to earth, matter of fact support for humans targeted for bigotry. The world was made better by her presence.

Charles Newman's avatar

Dolly is with her Jesus Christ God in her heaven. Condolences RIP 😔

NOGODZ20's avatar

One of the few good Christians.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

If ever there was a good and decent and caring person, Dolly Parton was that in spades. I think back to her appearance on The Orville, and what a delight she was. I hope she had the time of her life, doing that episode.

David Hester's avatar

Hillsdale is pure Evangeliban.

Not a damn bit better than Taliban.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Further Thought: I can't help but suspect that, once parents get wind of this change in curriculum, at least some of them will be screaming bloody murder about it and insist that their school system return to a course structure better based in FACTS, rather than Christian propaganda.

Hegseth thinks he can run roughshod over the educational system. He needs a little educating of his own.

RegularJoe's avatar

"Soldier, your wife is getting pretty lippy about the school situation, and the higher-ups aren't happy. You'd better get her under control before we ship her and the kids back to the States and your career is over. Understood?"

Troublesh00ter's avatar

"Hello, Mikey Weinstein? I'm getting some flack for my superiors here and I could use some support..."

Lise B's avatar

Sadly, that is the most likely scenario.

Thomas Hobbes's avatar

The hook is that these parents are military people, so they have to be extremely careful about criticizing the Department of Defense leadership. In this environment, they will find themselves in trouble with their own leadership.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

A lot of that depends on how reasonable their mid-line officer corps are and how receptive they are to the needs of the enlisted, as well as their own ranks. I simply do not see this issue getting swept under the rug.

Lise B's avatar

I believe you are right. How many military people refused to murder people in boats, when there was ZERO EVIDENCE they were “drug runners”.

Stephen Brady's avatar

It is pretty obvious that Pete’s education didn’t take.

S. Arch's avatar

Maybe a few would scream bloody murder, but most won't even blink. In my experience, the vast majority of Americans don't give a damn about history (or democracy, for that matter). Most people only care about their spending power.

Consider:

The "president" can mount a multi-pronged assault against voting rights, and most Americans don't say a word.

The "president" can send armed, masked, thugs into American cities to terrorize/murder citizens, and the majority of Americans don't say a word.

But when the price of gas & groceries rise, people begin to turn against the ruling regime.

That's America for you.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

All it takes is a few people, indeed even one registering a complaint, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation will come down on Hegseth and this whole scheme like a ton of bricks. Don't mistake the FFRF for lightweights, either. They kick ass and they take names, and they have a habit of winning.

S. Arch's avatar

I'm familiar with FFRF. All such organizations are powerless against the Christian Nationalist majority on the so-called Supreme Court.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Tell that to Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor. They'll laugh in your face. FFRF has either presented cases to SCOTUS or submitted amicus briefs ... AND WON, and I mean more than once.

If you think they're going to quit fighting just because of your defeatist attitude, you've got another think coming.

S. Arch's avatar

Not really. Despite FFRF's many legal victories, the fight to protect separation of church and state is being lost, not won. And when the so-called Supreme Court finally abolishes separation of church and state once and for all, FFRF won't be able to do anything about it. There are no more appeals above SCOTUS.

S. Arch's avatar

Yes, FFRF has won many cases at various levels of the judiciary. Nevertheless, they are losing overall. Despite all of FFRF's efforts (as well as many other secular organizations) separation of church and state is DIMINISHING, not increasing. If you think separation of church and state is stronger now than it was before the Trump Regime took control, then YOU've got another thing coming. When the so-called Supreme Court finally abolishes separation of church and state once and for all, FFRF won't be able to do anything about it. There are no more appeals above SCOTUS.

And for the record, when did I ever say that I think FFRF is going to quit fighting? I didn't. You shouldn't make such laughable claims. It makes you look ridiculous.

Charles Newman's avatar

Agreed, "the vast majority of Americans" in North and South America including the United States.

God Bless America? 🤔

S. Arch's avatar

Yeah, I know. I'm talking about the U.S. I usually try to avoid using the generic term "Americans," but sometimes I get lazy and it slips out.

Charles Newman's avatar

Understandable with all the MAGA cult and Christian nationalist influences in the United States. 🤪

XJC's avatar

Most military parents follow orders and know to not question them. Pistol Pete is counting on that. Military leans heavily R because that's who funds them. True fundies.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Most, perhaps. Maybe not all, and maybe with a sympathetic superior officer. As I said before, all it takes is one.

Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

It had 15 peer reviews!?!? Oh my goodness, that’s fantastic. Fifteen is so many. And peers?! Gosh, were they historian peers or Christian peers? What are their credentials? Similar to The Liar Barton? Honorary degrees and really good family friends? Did you just get your fifteen Hillsdale college history teachers to read it and give it a gold star? I mean, who could question your integrity with such remarkable phrases like “humane cosmopolitanism” to describe chattel slavery and the subjugation of women for centuries, what a gem. How dare folks question this curriculum? It’s flawless.

Boreal's avatar

As I have said before: Only a morally bankrupt cult, devoid of any appeal and acutely aware of its impending irrelevance with future generations, needs to groom children in its violent and hateful doctrines to continue to exist.

RegularJoe's avatar

White Claw Petey Kegbreath is, on his very best days, bloody effin' incompetent.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Is it me, or is Petey trying too hard to come across as butch?

NOGODZ20's avatar

He likes sweaty, buff manly men.

Len's avatar

So he likes Trump.

(OK, 1 out of 3 ain’t bad)

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Oh ... like John Beluchi in that old SNL skit! 😁

Joan the Dork's avatar

Now 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵'𝘴 how to miss the point by landing on it!

larry parker's avatar

I do believe that that is the first thing that I've heard him say that is true.

(That's a lot of thats.)

NOGODZ20's avatar

How easily he forgets.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

We're going to remember that you said that, Donnie! 😝

Troublesh00ter's avatar

The very fact that we have three different posts announcing her departure tells me Dolly was light-years distant from an ordinary person. Gonna miss you something fierce, Ms Parton.

larry parker's avatar

Pinning for Pigeon Forge.

Boreal's avatar

More proof there is no god. If a beneficent god existed, it would take Fuckface Von Clownstick long before Dolly..

NOGODZ20's avatar

OT

I know it's not the same as Dolly, but seeing the articles on her passing reminded me of the following:

For those who ever dreamed of Jeannie, Barbara Eden turned 95 two days ago.

Melanie Cline's avatar

I wish Dolly could’ve lived as long, in as good health. 🥺