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Joe King's avatar

𝑌𝑜𝑢 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑤𝑜𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑖𝑓 𝑊𝑖𝑛𝑎𝑛𝑠 𝑤𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑏𝑒𝑒𝑛 ℎ𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑖𝑒𝑟 ℎ𝑎𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑛 𝑔𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑖𝑛𝑡𝑜 𝑑𝑒𝑏𝑡 𝑡𝑜 𝑔𝑖𝑣𝑒 ℎ𝑖𝑚 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 $800 ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑑.

I don't have to wonder. I am fairly certain he would have been happier if the woman went into debt. Grift and greed, greed and grift, that's how to run a mega church, especially when you are already wealthy from your recording career.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

Just what would the Jesus of the Bible have thought of millionaire pastors? Wasn't there a verse about 'it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to pass through the gates of heaven'... And publicly shaming someone for giving what they thought they could? I'd bet his megachurch is just past its peak attendance and tithes.

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

He’s wearing a purple pinstrip suit, just what jesus said in the book of the Prophet Pulleditouttamyass. You need to read your bible, mister.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

I have, several times... 'Believing the Bible makes you a christian. Understanding the Bible makes you an atheist.'

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

I know. I was just teasing you.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

I know. Funny how the atheists know their Bible better than they do.

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Vanity Unfair's avatar

Mark 10:25 copied into Matthew 19:24 but, as I have pointed out previously, that was before the invention of the food blender.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

As long as the financial risk is on the individuals in the congregation, he sees no downside to going into debt. Spread that risk across a couple hundred people, he can grift so much more money without consequences.

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Len's avatar

Good business model 👍

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Moe and Effie's avatar

By the look on her face, the amount she was giving was already taking food out of her children's mouths and she probably won't be able to pay utilities or put gas in her car. This crap makes me want to weep. What kind of monster does this????

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Maltnothops's avatar

Run, don’t walk, away from grifters like this.

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Holytape's avatar

Does a swift kick to the nads count as running?

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Maltnothops's avatar

A journey all the way out has to start with a first step.

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Old Man Shadow's avatar

If you believe Acts and the epistles, early Christians met in people's houses. There were no buildings. No sanctuaries. No gaudy megachurch complexes.

When people brought them money, it was given to those who had need. From each according to his ability to each according to his need.

Churches should be taxed on any portion of their income that is not distributed to actual people in need with extensive records requirements showing proof of actual charity and not "building fund charity" or "buy pastor a new car/jet/house charity."

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NOGODZ20's avatar
2dEdited

Didn't we just have an article detailing xtian pastors and their love of money (which is in complete violation of scripture)?

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Joe King's avatar

Seems like only yesterday...

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Something-something about god and Mammon, wasn't it? 🤪

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Bill Wilson's avatar

"Money it's a hit Don't give me that do goody-good bullshit" - Pink Floyd, 'Money'

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NOGODZ20's avatar
2dEdited

Just as Christianity draws child molesters like shit draws flies, Christianity also draws money-sucking hucksters like this conman.

There is something fundamentally wrong with Christianity.

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

“In the beginning was the word, amd the word was GIMMEEEEEEEE.”

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Joe King's avatar

And so many turn out to be both.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

xtianity has drawn grifters ever since Paul told congregants that 'god wanted them to support apostles like him'.

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Sarah Longstaff's avatar

Yeah, check out Elaine Pagels's book The Origin of Satan. It shows how Christians have been preying on the ignorant since 200 AD. MAGA Christians are just getting back to basics. (And though it is not 100% historically accurate, I loved Spanish movie Agora. Tragic but prophetic ending.)

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Winans, you greedy, self-involved bastard. You couldn't just accept what you were offered. You had to turn the knife on a woman who was doing her damnedest to satisfy your demand for TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS.

That wasn't just unnecessary, it was cruel and vindictive ... and you deserve to get your nuts kicked through your nostrils for that despicable stunt.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Unnecessary, cruel and vindictive is how xtianity rolls.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Yeah ... you noticed that, too, didja? 😝

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John Schmacker's avatar

Anybody remember the parable of the widow's mite?

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Yup ... and she was probably jawboned into giving what she had, too!

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Crowscage's avatar

That's actually my first thought just reading the headline. Tax these parasites out of existence.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

I left my church, one I went to by myself most of the time and occasionally with my siblings, when they gifted me (wrapped in wrapping paper and a bow) a box of personalized envelopes for tithes and after they were unhappy with my offerings, telling me they expected 10% of my family’s income, not just what I could give. It’s terrible because this church pulled together a Christmas for us a few years earlier when both my parents were laid off over the holidays. They knew we were struggling, and had not recovered, and still demanded more money than we could give, placing the responsibility on a teenager with no job to save her family’s soul.

You can see why I talk about church and charity the way I do. This wasn’t even a mega church, it was a small community church with maybe 30-40 families that attended. And still the preacher lived in a house three times the size of mine (my house that my parents had to foreclose on and we ended up in rental hell for decades later) and had an expensive luxury car. The church was small but it was well appointed. Whenever there was a need for charity the expectation was not to pull from the regular tithes, but requests for more money out of our pockets.

Church is a MLM that outpaces inflation in costs, and uses terrifying threats of eternal damnation to keep you giving.

As someone who has spent their live building inner strength, once he complained about the donation I would have rescinded the offer and walked away. But I am not convinced of the Truth* of god and salvation and reliant on this organization for my sense of belonging. I can’t blame these folks for being manipulated, it is a heady drug they’re addicted to.

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jmax's avatar

When my father was in his 90s and no longer able to attend church regularly, they made sure to send a deacon around to "visit" him once a month to collect a check for his tithe. Never to see how he was doing or bring a meal or anything. Just for the $700 a month.

When Dad started to show signs of dementia, I exercised my power of attorney and put a stop to that shit.

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dammit barry's avatar

As a kid I was branded a heretic. I spent more tie in detention than any other kid. My Father used to make me puill my radio flyer filled with top shelf booze for priest and coca cola for the nuns. When bad times hit the church kept expecting. Bunch og unclassed leeches.

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Ilia Volyova's avatar

The legal term here is extortion

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

With a side-order of public shaming and intimidation!

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Ilia Volyova's avatar

True ; the above is actually a state and federal offense . Especially with the guy that ordered doors locked - that’s like half a dozen felonies per person present. If you or me did this we’d be pleading guilty to at least 8 years worth of stuff …

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Joe King's avatar

𝑊𝑖𝑛𝑎𝑛𝑠 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑠𝑢𝑒𝑑 𝑏𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ’𝑠 ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑒𝑘𝑒𝑒𝑝𝑒𝑟 𝑖𝑛 2018. 𝑆ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑙𝑎𝑖𝑚𝑒𝑑 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑓𝑖𝑟𝑒𝑑 𝑏𝑦 𝑊𝑖𝑛𝑎𝑛𝑠 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑝𝑎𝑦𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑒𝑛𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑖𝑛 𝑡𝑖𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑠 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 ℎ𝑒𝑟 $18,000/𝑦𝑒𝑎𝑟 𝑠𝑎𝑙𝑎𝑟𝑦 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑝𝑝𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑖𝑛 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑔𝑖𝑓𝑡𝑠 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑐ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑠. 𝑊𝑖𝑛𝑎𝑛𝑠 𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑒𝑔𝑒𝑑𝑙𝑦 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑒𝑟, “𝑌𝑜𝑢 𝑜𝑤𝑒 𝑢𝑠 $1,800,” 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑑𝑖𝑑𝑛’𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑑 𝑜𝑓 𝑚𝑜𝑛𝑒𝑦, ℎ𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎℎ𝑜𝑙𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑚𝑜𝑛𝑒𝑦 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑝𝑎𝑦𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑐𝑘𝑠. 𝑆ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑 𝑛𝑜. 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑓𝑖𝑟𝑒𝑑.

A poor woman getting by on $9 an hour coerced into only taking $8 an hour of that paycheck is excessively cruel. I would bet that Whinans would have expected her to give even more if he could find out how much her rent subsidies and SNAP benefits were worth.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

He told her she had to essentially pay to work cleaning up other people's messes. Can anyone here imagine trying to pull together a spare $1800 from the sofa cushions on $18,000 a year?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Hey, Winans...

How much did your savior charge for HIS services?

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

Your soul.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Imaginary being demands imaginary thing. And it doesn't cost a shekel.

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Linda's avatar
2dEdited

Great follow-up to yesterday’s piece. Live in-action examples. I hope they all run like hell away from this church, any church, and especially women. Imagine at a time like this being so greedy. At least he’s open about it. I’ll give him that.

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NOGODZ20's avatar
2dEdited

I'd love to see at least one woman tee off on this 💲💲💲 grubber for god and publicly shame HIM with "Give me back my money, bitch!"

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

I want to know where this woman's husband is, presuming he IS around. I have very little doubt but that she busted her butt to put the bucks she DID offer together, while struggling to maintain her home and her life in some semblance of quality.

Thinking about that, would anyone be surprised if Winans' congregation was predominantly FEMALE? I wouldn't.

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Linda's avatar

💯

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Boreal's avatar

A web search of this cult brings up this:

https://ibb.co/MxgYDLBM

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larry parker's avatar

Well, at least they waited to the second sentence to ask for money.

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Boreal's avatar

Their listing tells you that they are a business.

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Len Koz's avatar

God's bad with money. He needs your help to fund his starship.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

Cuz that starship ain't gonna run itself, folks.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Apparently Perfecting Church only appreciates your financial support when you give what Reverend Winans INSISTS that you give.

Otherwise he just disses you in public!

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Some time back, filmmaker Jeremiah Camara made a documentary about the black church in America, entitled: "Contradiction: A Question Of Faith." As good as that piece was, the one issue I don't recall it addressing was the monetary one, the monies those churches demand for continued membership. Contradiction DID address the utter failure of those organizations to advance the well-being of black people in their communities, but the financial toll remained unmentioned.

And I can't escape the feeling that Winans isn't the only black preacher who indulges in extortion of his congregation, for his own enrichment.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

How can they improve the lives of their congregation when their entire purpose is to take all of their congregations’ money.

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Tinker's avatar

But its 'seed' money doncha know? The will get back everything with interest...

...in heaven

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dammit barry's avatar

IF it exists. IF they get there.IF passtor gives a good word to jeebus

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OwossoHarpist's avatar

He's not the only one who does this. There are in fact black preachers from Nigeria who would allegedly lash out at some of their congregation members for nothing giving them enough money. Not to mention abusing and bullying them in various ways just to force them to give them all the money they demanded.

Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me1og4v_xCc

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Hemant or Captain Cassidy mentioned years ago a fb page (or YouTube channel) about preachers with (limited editions) sneakers and other overpriced accessories. From what I remember, a good chunk where POC.

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larry parker's avatar

Both.

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Psittacus Ebrius's avatar

Why are people, especially here in America so gullible? Do they really believe that they will suffer in the afterlife if they don't contribute to charlatans like Winans? Or if they leave their church? Isn't it time we start being intellectually honest with ourselves and ask why we believe these fools? Will medical science one day discover a "gullibility gene" in humans? Sorry. After reading this story, I felt like I had to channel George Carlin.

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

I know we tend to write them off as brainwashed. But I suspect people in precarious situations – and the US is a more precarious country than most – like some sort of certainty about life. If you can be laid off on the boss's whim, if you can break a leg and have to go bankrupt, you want some comfort that everything is going to be okay at some stage. Religion tends to wither a bit if there is a decent social safety net.

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Psittacus Ebrius's avatar

Giving up their hard-earned money to a flim-flam man is probably not going to help them with life's inevitable difficulties.

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

WE know that ........... Dammit, can't find a wink emoji that will copy.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Emoji? 😉

Emoticon? ;) ; )

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NOGODZ20's avatar

That's an emoticon. :D

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Ian D's avatar

Hear you. But also because the US has never had a strong culture and appreciation of trade unions and collective representation and bargaining. Hence, contend with low minimum wages and poor working conditions not to mention no national health care system that unions have brought in.

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dammit barry's avatar

It is pounded into their heads from birth.

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Patricia Kayden's avatar

Leave that church!! Save your money!!

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

Leave that church. Save your soul!

FIFY.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Soul? What is this "soul" of which you speak? 🤔 😁

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

It’s why you should give me money, of course. I’mgoing to hold the money becuase your soul has no pockets.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Tax this revenue-generating church.

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