This reckless disregard for human life demonstrates her likely guilt.
Having grown up in a church that did adult baptism, the typical procedure is to dunk the baptisee and bring them back up, not dunk and leave them. The fact that more baptism were carried out while no one even noticed shows that her crime isn't just her negligence, but systemic to her church.
Usually, when we have a case of religion killing someone, it is passive medical negligence of parents praying instead of taking their children to the hospital. For it to be the pastor actively involved in the killing? That's some next level bullshit.
"Better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy. And in the final tolling it often turns out that the facts are more comforting than the fantasy."
-- from Sagan's book "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark"
I just watched a video of him last night on YouTube. I really miss him and his incredible writing! I need to look that book up, it's perfect for the times!
I found another quote from that book last night, I really have to get it:
From 1995:
“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...
The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
I think it coincides with their embrace of authoritarian religion. They've been brought up in churches all their lives to listen to the pastors, fear the wrath of God, and be nothing more than an "obedient servant".
Trump is their god in earthly form (though I think they expected him to be a little smarter).
He hates all the same people they do! He tells them what they want to hear, that the bad things are always someone else's fault!
How long did she hold him under? Did he just inhale the water? Wasn’t she aware of his condition while she was touching him? I don’t want to actually see him drown, but I just don’t understand how he did in a baptism in a kiddie pool situation. Nevermind that there were other people coming and going without a moment’s thought of him just floating there. Don’t the baptisms go one at a time? It’s not like there’s a bunch of people splashing around all at once and he slipped under the water unnoticed. He was dunked and should have gotten back up right away, the person dunking him should have focused her attention on him until he was safe. I really do not understand how he was just ignored.
How self-obsessed does one have to be to refer to themselves as an "apostle?" It just goes to show you can call yourself whatever the hell you want, and people will believe it.
I was the Latke Tsar of our synagogue for 7 years. Which meant I had to round up enough volunteers to make 700 or so latkes. It wasn’t an honor. I became Latke Tsar one Hanukah when the existing Tsar got drunk from his flask 45 minutes into the potato peeling. I shooed him out of the kitchen and reassured all the 13 year olds that all was well; he just wasn’t feeling well.
This thread reminded me, and it seems like a good place to mention it, I was cast in another play. Well, it’s more of a multi year festival honoring these United States. It is a short play for each state, eight plays per year. This year is the Rocky Mountain states, and I have a part in the Arizona, New Mexico and Montana plays. I’m most excited to bartend as Big Foot.
The problem is that the theater hasn’t announced the cast yet, so I can’t put it out on social media yet. Anyway, these plays are hilarious and I can’t wait to get started.
I mean, it's not as if there's such a thing as the Royal Association of Apostles that has strict criteria for training and qualifications you have to meet before you pay your £500 fee to get your official apostle certificate.
The comments on her videos are sickening. For example, she's not your Mammy, people! Most of them sound like a bunch of uneducated, super insecure children.
Here in the deep south we had something called "Rapid Fire Ministries" advertised on signs for years. (But all before Trump.)
The one time I was curious enough to start to follow, they led to increasingly rural, isolated, heavily forested areas, so I never did learn the "truth" about how "firing rapidly" would get someone into heaven.
This story just blows me away. I did many baptisms as part of the woo factor of my job. I was a high church mainline pastor (Lutheran /United Methodist) and I mostly just sprinkled babies with sterilized water. I have done adult baptisms from a hot tub in San Francisco to the Buffalo National River. As fraudulent as I felt doing it, I cannot imagine losing track of someone during the ritual! And then her justification makes me furious. I hope the UK justice system throws the book at her!
I bet that had she stopped the ceremony immediately, called 911, started CPR, etc. then they wouldn't be charging her with manslaughter. *Even if* her sudden dunk caused him to inhale water and die.
The 'gross negligence' here is not merely surprise-dunking someone and having them inhale water. I expect ambulances get called to deal with idiot kids doing that as practical joke every summer. 'Prep and oversight' for such a simple thing isn't really the issue, IMO. It's in her complete callousness/indifference to the guy's condition after, and her prioritizing her show over his condition.
I’ll say it again. These are life-denying, life-hating peoples. The sheer callousness of leaving someone motionless (dead) in the water and continuing to perform baptisms afterwards is next level insanity. The mentally ill shouldn’t be in charge of anyone else’s life ever, period.
I felt safer around the schizophrenic person I encountered in the subway yesterday than I do around the train preachers. At least there is a formula (no eye contact, head down, move slowly but confidently away).
That’s ridiculous Hannah. The point is you don’t know. Most likely not, but some are extremely aggressive as I have experienced first hand - thank you. Also, plenty of people have been pushed onto the subway tracks by untreated mentally ill people and have died.
I’ve had people scream and spit in my face, follow me out of the subway, and pretend to push me for no reason whatsoever.
I do know a lot about it. Schizophrenics are a tiny part of the population. An even smaller part are violent. Your chances of being harmed are much more likely being next to an otherwise normal looking person. I am aware of the people being shoved in front of trains trope. Again, it happens extremely rarely, but gets ridiculous hype.
It’s no surprise that as people aren’t having their most basic needs met (access to healthcare, food, and shelter) that these types of incidents have been steadily increasing. I’m not going to shut my eyes to it or act like Fox News. The question is, what can we collectively do to make people’s lives better? You telling me I’m not experiencing what I have been isn’t helpful nor does it solve any real problems. There is a reason why no New Yorkers besides a few tourists wait for the train close to the tracks anymore…
My most important takeaway…& why I could no longer participate in my religious cultural traditions: “when you assume any harm you cause is just part of God’s Master Plan.”
I have little doubt about the existence or even the requirement for a permit for this kind of action. I also have little doubt that if someone did something similar for a secular purpose they would be in a lot of trouble for the lack of permits whether or not someone died.
I don't think that there are any regulations regarding adult baptisms. Usually the thinking is that as the people are adult, they'll know what they're getting themselves into and have got the wherewithal to keep themselves safe.
No but there are regulations for anyone who wants to teach a swim class (yes even for adults) in their back yard. So yes, there are no regulations for baptisms, not because they are adults, but because they are Christian.
Wow. Losing track of a disabled person in a kiddie pool doesn't exactly scream "caring for the least of these."
Is it bad that I laughed out loud? :D
No.
𝐼𝑡’𝑠 𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑦 𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑠𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑅𝑒𝑖𝑑-𝐵𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑙𝑒𝑦 𝑑𝑖𝑑𝑛’𝑡 𝑖𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑑 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑛, 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦𝑜𝑛𝑒’𝑠 𝑠𝑎𝑓𝑒𝑡𝑦 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑎𝑖𝑙𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑑𝑜 ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑗𝑜𝑏.
A quick Google search of UK manslaughter law shows that she is likely guilty of at the very least involuntary manslaughter.
𝐼𝑓 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑙𝑜𝑜𝑘 𝑎𝑡 𝑅𝑒𝑖𝑑-𝐵𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑙𝑒𝑦’𝑠 𝑠𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑎𝑙 𝑚𝑒𝑑𝑖𝑎 𝑝𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑠, 𝑦𝑜𝑢’𝑑 𝑛𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟 𝑘𝑛𝑜𝑤 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑛 ℎ𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑒𝑑. 𝑆ℎ𝑒’𝑠 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡 𝑚𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑑 𝑜𝑛 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑙𝑖𝑓𝑒 𝑎𝑠 𝑖𝑓 𝑛𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟 ℎ𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑒𝑑.
This reckless disregard for human life demonstrates her likely guilt.
Having grown up in a church that did adult baptism, the typical procedure is to dunk the baptisee and bring them back up, not dunk and leave them. The fact that more baptism were carried out while no one even noticed shows that her crime isn't just her negligence, but systemic to her church.
Usually, when we have a case of religion killing someone, it is passive medical negligence of parents praying instead of taking their children to the hospital. For it to be the pastor actively involved in the killing? That's some next level bullshit.
Religion kills.
It needs to be gone.
But...but...it gives people comfort.
Lies can be very comforting.
Here's what Carl had to say...
"Better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy. And in the final tolling it often turns out that the facts are more comforting than the fantasy."
-- from Sagan's book "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark"
I just watched a video of him last night on YouTube. I really miss him and his incredible writing! I need to look that book up, it's perfect for the times!
Wonder what he would have to say about the current situation in this country and the people in power?
I found another quote from that book last night, I really have to get it:
From 1995:
“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...
The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
One of my ongoing queries is why Maga supports Trump- You've just answered it.
I think it coincides with their embrace of authoritarian religion. They've been brought up in churches all their lives to listen to the pastors, fear the wrath of God, and be nothing more than an "obedient servant".
Trump is their god in earthly form (though I think they expected him to be a little smarter).
He hates all the same people they do! He tells them what they want to hear, that the bad things are always someone else's fault!
GoD Trump can never fail, only be failed.
How long did she hold him under? Did he just inhale the water? Wasn’t she aware of his condition while she was touching him? I don’t want to actually see him drown, but I just don’t understand how he did in a baptism in a kiddie pool situation. Nevermind that there were other people coming and going without a moment’s thought of him just floating there. Don’t the baptisms go one at a time? It’s not like there’s a bunch of people splashing around all at once and he slipped under the water unnoticed. He was dunked and should have gotten back up right away, the person dunking him should have focused her attention on him until he was safe. I really do not understand how he was just ignored.
She definitely deserves to be held accountable.
And she will get a proper court case, with all the rules of due process.
It's a helluva lot more care than her victim got.
It’s a helluva lot more care than anyone in the U.S. gets.
How self-obsessed does one have to be to refer to themselves as an "apostle?" It just goes to show you can call yourself whatever the hell you want, and people will believe it.
You all know I’m the Queen of Sheba. I mean, it is just as believable as that woman being an apostle, probably more useful too.
“And I am the Tsar of all the Russias.”
I'm the Grand Poobah!
You said "poo". 🤣
Comment.
Oh, life is a glorious cycle of song,
A medley of extemporanea;
And love is a thing that can never go wrong;
And I am Marie of Roumania.
Dorothy Parker: if you haven’t read her, give yourself a treat.
And I'm in line to board our cruise ship! 😁
Bon voyage!
Thanks to all of you! 🥳🥳🥳
Some music to send you on your way...
youtu.be/yMTI0xdu8Zk
I was the Latke Tsar of our synagogue for 7 years. Which meant I had to round up enough volunteers to make 700 or so latkes. It wasn’t an honor. I became Latke Tsar one Hanukah when the existing Tsar got drunk from his flask 45 minutes into the potato peeling. I shooed him out of the kitchen and reassured all the 13 year olds that all was well; he just wasn’t feeling well.
Are you an ancestor of Pavel Chekov, for he declared himself Tsar of all Russia!
Queen of the Ice Cream Cake!
I AM THE DAIRY QUEEN!
I AM THE LIZARD QUEEN! 🦎
Somebody had to say it! I am not disappointed. I love this group.
I'm so glad I decided to start participating - I'm really liking it here! And I've got so many more pop culture references ready to whip out, too. :D
This thread reminded me, and it seems like a good place to mention it, I was cast in another play. Well, it’s more of a multi year festival honoring these United States. It is a short play for each state, eight plays per year. This year is the Rocky Mountain states, and I have a part in the Arizona, New Mexico and Montana plays. I’m most excited to bartend as Big Foot.
The problem is that the theater hasn’t announced the cast yet, so I can’t put it out on social media yet. Anyway, these plays are hilarious and I can’t wait to get started.
I am the LORD PRESIDENT OF THE HIGH COUNCIL OF TIMELORDS OF GALLIFREY! 🤨
https://media.tenor.com/r06-5wDEOS0AAAAi/sberleffo.gif
I mean, it's not as if there's such a thing as the Royal Association of Apostles that has strict criteria for training and qualifications you have to meet before you pay your £500 fee to get your official apostle certificate.
But it does sound like a profitable opportunity!
Soon to be "The Apostle of HMP Birmingham."
She might be popular.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/birmingham-prison
Birmingham Prison
Birmingham Prison is a men’s prison in the Winson Green area of Birmingham.
Whoops, my bad. :)
Well wherever she ends up, she can assume the title of "The Apostle of" that jail.
The comments on her videos are sickening. For example, she's not your Mammy, people! Most of them sound like a bunch of uneducated, super insecure children.
"Life Changing Ministries" certainly changed Robert Yap's life.
Here in the deep south we had something called "Rapid Fire Ministries" advertised on signs for years. (But all before Trump.)
The one time I was curious enough to start to follow, they led to increasingly rural, isolated, heavily forested areas, so I never did learn the "truth" about how "firing rapidly" would get someone into heaven.
You mean ended it.
Yup. Was being sarcastic.
This story just blows me away. I did many baptisms as part of the woo factor of my job. I was a high church mainline pastor (Lutheran /United Methodist) and I mostly just sprinkled babies with sterilized water. I have done adult baptisms from a hot tub in San Francisco to the Buffalo National River. As fraudulent as I felt doing it, I cannot imagine losing track of someone during the ritual! And then her justification makes me furious. I hope the UK justice system throws the book at her!
𝑇ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑟𝑒𝑔𝑎𝑟𝑑 𝑚𝑒𝑎𝑛𝑡 𝑡𝑎𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑐ℎ𝑎𝑟𝑔𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑎 𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑢𝑎𝑙 𝑠ℎ𝑒’𝑑 𝑛𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟 𝑑𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑏𝑒𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑒, 𝑖𝑛𝑣𝑜𝑙𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎 𝑚𝑎𝑛 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑎 𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑚𝑒𝑑𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛, 𝑖𝑛 𝑎 𝑏𝑎𝑐𝑘𝑦𝑎𝑟𝑑 𝑘𝑖𝑑𝑑𝑖𝑒 𝑝𝑜𝑜𝑙, 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑒 𝑙𝑖𝑣𝑒-𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑢𝑑𝑖𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒. 𝑊ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛? 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡? 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒’𝑠 𝑛𝑜 𝑒𝑣𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑜𝑓 𝑖𝑡.
I bet that had she stopped the ceremony immediately, called 911, started CPR, etc. then they wouldn't be charging her with manslaughter. *Even if* her sudden dunk caused him to inhale water and die.
The 'gross negligence' here is not merely surprise-dunking someone and having them inhale water. I expect ambulances get called to deal with idiot kids doing that as practical joke every summer. 'Prep and oversight' for such a simple thing isn't really the issue, IMO. It's in her complete callousness/indifference to the guy's condition after, and her prioritizing her show over his condition.
All true. Apart from the fact that phoning '911' wouldn't have helped ... it's England.
Ah, 999. I forgot!
Why did 'god' give him Parkinson’s disease and then let 'god's' chosen parasite drown him?
You expect logic from religion?
No, since it is based on fantasy.
God works in mysterious ways.
"God works in delirious ways."
-- Aron Ra
I’ll say it again. These are life-denying, life-hating peoples. The sheer callousness of leaving someone motionless (dead) in the water and continuing to perform baptisms afterwards is next level insanity. The mentally ill shouldn’t be in charge of anyone else’s life ever, period.
I felt safer around the schizophrenic person I encountered in the subway yesterday than I do around the train preachers. At least there is a formula (no eye contact, head down, move slowly but confidently away).
Schizophrenic people are not going to hurt anyone. That's a vicious stereotype.
That’s ridiculous Hannah. The point is you don’t know. Most likely not, but some are extremely aggressive as I have experienced first hand - thank you. Also, plenty of people have been pushed onto the subway tracks by untreated mentally ill people and have died.
I’ve had people scream and spit in my face, follow me out of the subway, and pretend to push me for no reason whatsoever.
I do know a lot about it. Schizophrenics are a tiny part of the population. An even smaller part are violent. Your chances of being harmed are much more likely being next to an otherwise normal looking person. I am aware of the people being shoved in front of trains trope. Again, it happens extremely rarely, but gets ridiculous hype.
It’s no surprise that as people aren’t having their most basic needs met (access to healthcare, food, and shelter) that these types of incidents have been steadily increasing. I’m not going to shut my eyes to it or act like Fox News. The question is, what can we collectively do to make people’s lives better? You telling me I’m not experiencing what I have been isn’t helpful nor does it solve any real problems. There is a reason why no New Yorkers besides a few tourists wait for the train close to the tracks anymore…
I was only offering my experience. Yours is clearly different. I wasn't lecturing you. Sorry if I came across that way.
I am aware of that thank you. I hope you feel like the better person. Maybe you should go take your chances? Good luck.
And of course, Reid-Bartley tries to deny that she's to blame. Typical xtian who refuses to take responsibility for their own actions.
Not only did she deny blame, she concocted a fantasy story to make believe that Mr Yap's death was 𝘴𝘶𝘱𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘦𝘥 to happen.
If it's not the indoctrination, then her empathy circuits are broken.
She couldn't shut her yap.
They never seem to learn consequences are on the one that did the wrong thing, not their deity.
My most important takeaway…& why I could no longer participate in my religious cultural traditions: “when you assume any harm you cause is just part of God’s Master Plan.”
Right.
The Children's Crusades feels like a good example...
I have little doubt about the existence or even the requirement for a permit for this kind of action. I also have little doubt that if someone did something similar for a secular purpose they would be in a lot of trouble for the lack of permits whether or not someone died.
I don't think that there are any regulations regarding adult baptisms. Usually the thinking is that as the people are adult, they'll know what they're getting themselves into and have got the wherewithal to keep themselves safe.
No but there are regulations for anyone who wants to teach a swim class (yes even for adults) in their back yard. So yes, there are no regulations for baptisms, not because they are adults, but because they are Christian.
Have you found any regulations? I am happy to be proven wrong, so please let us know if you find any.
Well, God does indeed work in mysterious ways.
"𝘐 𝘥𝘪𝘥𝘯'𝘵 𝘬𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘮𝘢𝘯- 𝘩𝘦 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘸𝘢𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘰 𝘣𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘷𝘦𝘯!"
Holy shit, lady. 𝘗𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘦 use that line when you defend yourself in court.
"I was taken to heaven immediately to see Robert Yap...He's young, he's dancing with Jesus in the garden."
youtu.be/G8GwT7ZotCg
Oh, I do hope she repeats that claim of hers in court. And what a fantastic dancer Jesus is.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r6huPIAdhh0
Not just accepted, untreated.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPAuzPTSG4CA0-X5RcPCLT-cRNP9X0qUtgMQ&s
Preacher looks like they're delivering a Moe Howard headslap to that congregant.
If it really was, then that rube deserves to have some sense slapped into them.
💯