Let me get this straight: Walters thinks that 𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘢𝘵𝘰𝘳𝘺 Christian prayer and Bible readings are students and teachers freely expressing their religious beliefs? How would he react if a student, doing the mandatory prayer, finished it with Hail Satan instead of In Jesus Name? How about the fact that he thinks using the free speech and petition clauses is somehow illegal? It appears that Walters wants the First Amendment to be only the free exercise clause, and that it only applies to people he deems to be Christians.
"And when you pray, be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full and the LORD has bought them a new Mercedes Benz."
What I want to know is why Jeebus needs this cretinous christian going to bat for him. He's supposed to be all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-powerful... Let him hie on down here and tell everyone exactly how, when, and maybe why he needs to be worshipped.
He did hie down here! And visited me in my dreams. So now I'm going to tell you how to worship him. You can trust me on this, because Jesus says to trust me.
The problem with that is we don’t know whether it’s going to be Catholic Jesus, Mormon Jesus, Protestant Jesus, Calvinist Jesus, liberal Christian Jesus, or sex obsessed Jesus.
What we really need is Jesus to have an official identity card
"... mandatory prayer, finished it with Hail Satan instead of In Jesus Name?"
That would be blasphemy which is forbidden by the Second Commandment. Everybody knows that the Ten Commandments (made by God) have precedence over the Constitution (made by humans).
Most of the Commandments and Genesis were lifted and altered to suit the Israelites from the Sumerians of Ur, the City Abraham came from. They had numerous Gods and Goddesses. So show your proof God wrote them.
“he merely insists his job is to protect “individual religious freedom””
Really!?! How is forcing the bible into classrooms it doesn’t apply to, on teachers that don’t want it, and for students who don’t believe in it, protecting “individual religious freedom”?
But really your job is only tangentially related to protecting religious freedom, Walters. Your job is to provide the schools in your state what they need to provide a vibrant, safe, challenging education to all the students in the state. You are prohibited by the constitution of the USA and of Oklahoma to dictate the religious instruction of any student. So who is really protecting “individual religious freedom”? FFRF, that’s who.
These maniacal Christians have become emboldened by the fascists in charge. They will continue to push the envelope until they are stopped. Neither morals nor values will prevent them from bulldozing 250 years of Constitutional law to get their way. Just as Jesus intended, I’m sure.
What I want to know is: if they really believe God established this nation (as a Christian nation or otherwise) why are they so hell-bent on destroying it?
None of it makes sense, JoyLynn. I’m a recovering Catholic and an old man now, but, even I have a hard time understanding how evangelicals could trade outlawing abortion for supporting an evil conman who consistently breaks every one of their cherished 10 commandments and is stealing our democracy. The hypocrisy is strong in Religion World.
Yes, IIRC. This was the "broken vessel" parable, analogy, whatever that popped up from time to time in sermons, about the potter and His "clay." If the potter discovered one of His pots broken or flawed, He would smash it down to its component dust and remake it into a perfect vessel. As I remember it, the vessel was a metaphor for "the lost," people who did not follow God and thus lived shattered, broken lives until they found God and were made whole again, good vessels for God.
However, the other "pots" (love that description!) who now live in MAGAworld see themselves not only as good vessels made whole, but *perfect* vessels who are now proxies for God - and in that role, they have decided that this "Christian nation" (as if a geopolitical institution could be a sentient being on its own and hold religious beliefs) is "broken" and has been for a long time. I've not been a part of any religious group for quite some time so I'm not really sure if they have taken it upon themselves, or have cast muskrump in the role of supreme Potter, but they have decided en masse that the U.S. needs to be broken, smashed, and remade into a perfect vessel to glorify God, or some such rubbish.
YEEEEEEEEEEESH, I'm still amazed that I used to believe this as well. (I mean the part about people, not nations, being "broken vessels." When I was a child, Christianity was still being marketed as a personal decision to accept Christ as your personal savior, etc.)
There was even a song about it back in the day, one which our youth choir wore out, but I haven't heard it anywhere since then. It's probably been drowned by the deluge of praise "music."
' Nevertheless a "pot" no matter how perfect can't fix another "pot." '
Exactly. They, the other "pots," have usurped the role of the Potter, God Himself. They have elevated themselves to that of Supreme Beings, and usurped authority to decide how other people get to live. Or IF they get to live.
Congratulations! You have achieved Radical Atheist level. You have earned•|• Cynicism:+4 Skepticism:+5 Critical Thinking:+5. Stick of Pondering. Pocket of Useful Lint.
13,666 points until Hyper Atheist level. Good luck!
Somehow, I'm less than surprised. The current Republican tactic seems to be doubling down on everything, no matter how illegal or ridiculous; they seem to be doing it because they think they can get away with it and possibly win. The worst part is they might be right, considering how much of SCOTUS they apparently own these days.
Never mind that suing the FFRF this way shows exactly how helpless these people honestly believe their Jesus to be. Never mind that they're legally in the wrong and probably know it. Never mind that this suit Walters is bringing is the religious equivalent of a heckler's veto. Walters wants to make children do as he says, and it's pretty clear he doesn't care about parental choice this time.
Maybe it's time to stop voting for Republicans, Oklahoma.
If you were looking for a good example of the mental illness that can be justified in the name of Christianity, Ryan Walters wouldn't be a bad choice. He wants to force his, and only his, brand of Christianity into the public schools, and prevent anyone from challenging him. Oklahoma ranks 49th in education, and this fool's only solution to the failing schools he administers, is more Jesus.
I'd be pretty dubious about this suit going to trial, but if it does, I would urge the FFRF to be as public about it as possible. Sponsor local TV ads, maybe a billboard or two.
Ryan thinks he knows what he's gotten himself into. He doesn't.
Oh, the "godless left" is in there, but what is really sweet (and what I would emphasize) is that it would be the Oklahoma judicial system, ruling against him!
On the other hand, if the judge just tosses it out, that would REALLY set him off. How dare those plebian left-wingers ignore him! Don't they know Who He Is? Why, he is Jesus's Favorite Child, and he speaks directly for the Almighty!
He'll just keep buzzing around inside his bell jar, slamming against the sides until he ruptures an artery -- I think that's part of what "pride goeth before a fall and a haughty spirit before destruction" refers to, the tendency to self-destruct.
But not all of these attention whores go that route. Some actually manage to cause a hella lot of damage and destruction.
I hope he gets a judge who knows how to be ruthlessly effective in taking this sniveling weasel down a few legal pegs. A judge who can masterfully showcase to the world just how idiotic he is, to the humiliating nth degree.
Not that it would have any effect on Walters' little fantasy bubble, but a good public thrashing would be a wondrous sight to behold. Think I could get the DVD on Amazon?
He may need a dictionary or two to be able to understand the dressing down he will get. Part of me wants this to go to trial, and be livestreamed for our entertainment. I have popcorn!
My guess is the judge will toss it almost immediately as the lawsuit is absurd. Watters is essentially asserting he is the only one with the freedom of speech.
Trying to look on the plus side, if someone sending mail to me is an infringement on my 1a rights, then there's a whole lotta junk mail advertisers I'd like to have a word in court with....
"The Oklahoma Department of Education’s attorney Jacquelyne K. Phelps says FFRF is interfering with Walters’ and OSDE’s “statutory duty to oversee Oklahoma’s public schools and their duty to implement curricular standards, investigate any complaints levied against an Oklahoma school, and advocate for its students and parents.”
This is what lawyers call 'pounding the table.' As in : "If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If the law is on your side, argue the law. If neither the facts nor the law are on your side, pound the table." FFRF isn't interfering with anyone's ability to carry out their legitimate responsibilities; they're just making sure they do it legally and without violating the Constitution. No wonder the fundies are big mad.
FFRF is radical since they believe that the Constitution means what it says in the First Amendment. The religious dogmatists do the same thing with the Constitution they do with the Bible, self serving interpretations, trying to make things fit their wish list, no matter how much they have to lie.
From where I'm sitting, Republicans haven't been the party of Law and Order for at least forty years now, probably longer. It's a bit hard to judge things that happened back when I was in grade school.
The FL result was quite good too, all things considered. The GOP candidates won, but they won by 15 points in bright red districts Trump took by 30 points. If 2026 turns out to be "2024, but -15 points" that would be, well, bigly huge. Full of win for the Ds.
Let me get this straight: Walters thinks that 𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘢𝘵𝘰𝘳𝘺 Christian prayer and Bible readings are students and teachers freely expressing their religious beliefs? How would he react if a student, doing the mandatory prayer, finished it with Hail Satan instead of In Jesus Name? How about the fact that he thinks using the free speech and petition clauses is somehow illegal? It appears that Walters wants the First Amendment to be only the free exercise clause, and that it only applies to people he deems to be Christians.
If a student ended their 'voluntary' prayer with 'Inshallah', they'd be called down to the principal's office and suspended. Count on it.
Probably for infringing on other students' religious freedom. Because the hypocrisy knows no bounds.
Or deported.
Why yes. They are only following the bible:
"And when you pray, be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full and the LORD has bought them a new Mercedes Benz."
-Matthew 6:5, Evangelical Conservative Version.
"The LORD has bought them a new Mercedes Benz."
Including the 25% import tariff.
The most beautiful word in the bible.
Verily because their friends all drive Porches and He must make amends.
Nope...it fell off the rails at "Walters 𝒕𝒉𝒊𝒏𝒌𝒔 ..." That's simply not possible. 🙂
Assuming facts not in evidence.
If God is really all-knowing, doesn't that render prayer moot?
He just likes to hear them beg.
What I want to know is why Jeebus needs this cretinous christian going to bat for him. He's supposed to be all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-powerful... Let him hie on down here and tell everyone exactly how, when, and maybe why he needs to be worshipped.
He did hie down here! And visited me in my dreams. So now I'm going to tell you how to worship him. You can trust me on this, because Jesus says to trust me.
See how it works? Isn't that a great system?
The problem with that is we don’t know whether it’s going to be Catholic Jesus, Mormon Jesus, Protestant Jesus, Calvinist Jesus, liberal Christian Jesus, or sex obsessed Jesus.
What we really need is Jesus to have an official identity card
And only if he enters legally.
Not a joke, Christians are really saying that Jesus needs to enter the country “legally” if it wants them to listen to it.
https://images.app.goo.gl/oo81waoJZZ2qPGm56
https://youtu.be/UPNamm7cvvc
Damn it I wish I could unsee that 😂😂
"... mandatory prayer, finished it with Hail Satan instead of In Jesus Name?"
That would be blasphemy which is forbidden by the Second Commandment. Everybody knows that the Ten Commandments (made by God) have precedence over the Constitution (made by humans).
Most of the Commandments and Genesis were lifted and altered to suit the Israelites from the Sumerians of Ur, the City Abraham came from. They had numerous Gods and Goddesses. So show your proof God wrote them.
They are mentioned in the Bible and the Bible is the immutable word of God which is also mentioned in the Bible. /s
(The /s was not added in my previous reply because it was obvious for me, sorry for the poe).
You can still edit your first post.
Think "Project 2025"
Hopefully the Judge dismisses the case in short order and awards full fees to FFRF.
It would be interesting to know if Walters is using State money to file this suit?
Grifters never use their own money.
OPM only just like several others we know.
Indeed it would.
Does a bear shit in the woods.
Rule 11 time!
Rule 11?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_11
Not sure what court this chucklefuck is filing in, but state rules have a similar provision.
“he merely insists his job is to protect “individual religious freedom””
Really!?! How is forcing the bible into classrooms it doesn’t apply to, on teachers that don’t want it, and for students who don’t believe in it, protecting “individual religious freedom”?
But really your job is only tangentially related to protecting religious freedom, Walters. Your job is to provide the schools in your state what they need to provide a vibrant, safe, challenging education to all the students in the state. You are prohibited by the constitution of the USA and of Oklahoma to dictate the religious instruction of any student. So who is really protecting “individual religious freedom”? FFRF, that’s who.
Ryan Walters:
"You're oppressing me for not letting me shove my religious beliefs down your throat, waaahhhhh!"
Ever notice how anyone to the left of Mussolini is a radical to conservative dipshits?
Mussolini is too far left for them. Hell anyone who objects to hunting the homeless for sport is too far left for these enemies of humanity.
“In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five…” -George Orwell and Ryan Walters
These maniacal Christians have become emboldened by the fascists in charge. They will continue to push the envelope until they are stopped. Neither morals nor values will prevent them from bulldozing 250 years of Constitutional law to get their way. Just as Jesus intended, I’m sure.
What I want to know is: if they really believe God established this nation (as a Christian nation or otherwise) why are they so hell-bent on destroying it?
In their "minds," they are 𝑠𝑎𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 America.
None of it makes sense, JoyLynn. I’m a recovering Catholic and an old man now, but, even I have a hard time understanding how evangelicals could trade outlawing abortion for supporting an evil conman who consistently breaks every one of their cherished 10 commandments and is stealing our democracy. The hypocrisy is strong in Religion World.
Because it has "fallen" from grace and needs to be "restored" to its original glory, even if they have to burn it to the ground to do so.
It's all in the parable of the potter smashing the broken vessel in order to make it over again.
Isn't God meant to be the potter? Certainly not the other "pots."
Yes, IIRC. This was the "broken vessel" parable, analogy, whatever that popped up from time to time in sermons, about the potter and His "clay." If the potter discovered one of His pots broken or flawed, He would smash it down to its component dust and remake it into a perfect vessel. As I remember it, the vessel was a metaphor for "the lost," people who did not follow God and thus lived shattered, broken lives until they found God and were made whole again, good vessels for God.
However, the other "pots" (love that description!) who now live in MAGAworld see themselves not only as good vessels made whole, but *perfect* vessels who are now proxies for God - and in that role, they have decided that this "Christian nation" (as if a geopolitical institution could be a sentient being on its own and hold religious beliefs) is "broken" and has been for a long time. I've not been a part of any religious group for quite some time so I'm not really sure if they have taken it upon themselves, or have cast muskrump in the role of supreme Potter, but they have decided en masse that the U.S. needs to be broken, smashed, and remade into a perfect vessel to glorify God, or some such rubbish.
YEEEEEEEEEEESH, I'm still amazed that I used to believe this as well. (I mean the part about people, not nations, being "broken vessels." When I was a child, Christianity was still being marketed as a personal decision to accept Christ as your personal savior, etc.)
There was even a song about it back in the day, one which our youth choir wore out, but I haven't heard it anywhere since then. It's probably been drowned by the deluge of praise "music."
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=andre+crouch+song%2c+youtube%2c+the+broken+vessel&mid=F6A06EAE701FE19A4179F6A06EAE701FE19A4179&FORM=VIRE
Nevertheless a "pot" no matter how perfect can't fix another "pot." A pot, even an imperfect one could be used by the potter to support another pot.
I was practically raised in church but what I hear now is unrecognizable compared to what I heard or read.
' Nevertheless a "pot" no matter how perfect can't fix another "pot." '
Exactly. They, the other "pots," have usurped the role of the Potter, God Himself. They have elevated themselves to that of Supreme Beings, and usurped authority to decide how other people get to live. Or IF they get to live.
Congratulations! You have achieved Radical Atheist level. You have earned•|• Cynicism:+4 Skepticism:+5 Critical Thinking:+5. Stick of Pondering. Pocket of Useful Lint.
13,666 points until Hyper Atheist level. Good luck!
Wha level is "Inner Circle Atheist?"
Divinity.
Yum. 😋
I thought about you today. I found chicken donuts on my delivery app.
You mean 🍩 stuffed with 🐔 or as in one for dinner and the other for dessert? 😉
The first.
You should've bought the Season Pass; you'd be a Giga-Atheist by now!
Somehow, I'm less than surprised. The current Republican tactic seems to be doubling down on everything, no matter how illegal or ridiculous; they seem to be doing it because they think they can get away with it and possibly win. The worst part is they might be right, considering how much of SCOTUS they apparently own these days.
Never mind that suing the FFRF this way shows exactly how helpless these people honestly believe their Jesus to be. Never mind that they're legally in the wrong and probably know it. Never mind that this suit Walters is bringing is the religious equivalent of a heckler's veto. Walters wants to make children do as he says, and it's pretty clear he doesn't care about parental choice this time.
Maybe it's time to stop voting for Republicans, Oklahoma.
Maybe it's time to stop voting for Republicans, period.
Long past time for that.
If you were looking for a good example of the mental illness that can be justified in the name of Christianity, Ryan Walters wouldn't be a bad choice. He wants to force his, and only his, brand of Christianity into the public schools, and prevent anyone from challenging him. Oklahoma ranks 49th in education, and this fool's only solution to the failing schools he administers, is more Jesus.
I'd be pretty dubious about this suit going to trial, but if it does, I would urge the FFRF to be as public about it as possible. Sponsor local TV ads, maybe a billboard or two.
Ryan thinks he knows what he's gotten himself into. He doesn't.
If this makes it to trial, Watters isn't getting good legal advice.
If it DOES go to trial, Walters won't know what hit him.
Poor baby! He will portray himself as the victim of the godless left. Kind of a win-win for him.
Oh, the "godless left" is in there, but what is really sweet (and what I would emphasize) is that it would be the Oklahoma judicial system, ruling against him!
That's got to sting just a little bit!
On the other hand, if the judge just tosses it out, that would REALLY set him off. How dare those plebian left-wingers ignore him! Don't they know Who He Is? Why, he is Jesus's Favorite Child, and he speaks directly for the Almighty!
He'll just keep buzzing around inside his bell jar, slamming against the sides until he ruptures an artery -- I think that's part of what "pride goeth before a fall and a haughty spirit before destruction" refers to, the tendency to self-destruct.
But not all of these attention whores go that route. Some actually manage to cause a hella lot of damage and destruction.
He might figure it out after the judge stops laughing.
I hope he gets a judge who knows how to be ruthlessly effective in taking this sniveling weasel down a few legal pegs. A judge who can masterfully showcase to the world just how idiotic he is, to the humiliating nth degree.
Not that it would have any effect on Walters' little fantasy bubble, but a good public thrashing would be a wondrous sight to behold. Think I could get the DVD on Amazon?
He would declare the judge a radical leftist and demand impeachment.
Walters thinks Oklahoma tornadoes are bad. Wait until he gets into court (if it gets that far).
He may need a dictionary or two to be able to understand the dressing down he will get. Part of me wants this to go to trial, and be livestreamed for our entertainment. I have popcorn!
I'll get the beer!
My guess is the judge will toss it almost immediately as the lawsuit is absurd. Watters is essentially asserting he is the only one with the freedom of speech.
Trying to look on the plus side, if someone sending mail to me is an infringement on my 1a rights, then there's a whole lotta junk mail advertisers I'd like to have a word in court with....
Based on what phelpsmediation says above, he already isn't.
"The Oklahoma Department of Education’s attorney Jacquelyne K. Phelps says FFRF is interfering with Walters’ and OSDE’s “statutory duty to oversee Oklahoma’s public schools and their duty to implement curricular standards, investigate any complaints levied against an Oklahoma school, and advocate for its students and parents.”
This is what lawyers call 'pounding the table.' As in : "If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If the law is on your side, argue the law. If neither the facts nor the law are on your side, pound the table." FFRF isn't interfering with anyone's ability to carry out their legitimate responsibilities; they're just making sure they do it legally and without violating the Constitution. No wonder the fundies are big mad.
FFRF is radical since they believe that the Constitution means what it says in the First Amendment. The religious dogmatists do the same thing with the Constitution they do with the Bible, self serving interpretations, trying to make things fit their wish list, no matter how much they have to lie.
So much for the Party of Law And Order.
Xtians are told to obey all earthly laws and authorities and why. Walters is yet another arrogant believer who puts himself above his god.
No, he's still subservient to the Orange Turd.
From where I'm sitting, Republicans haven't been the party of Law and Order for at least forty years now, probably longer. It's a bit hard to judge things that happened back when I was in grade school.
Longer than that. Since Nixon, at least.
45 years.
Wouldn't that be one of those frivolous and vexatious lawsuits that traitor trump the unchristian was whining about recently?
Isn't this the same state that opted out of feeding hungry schoolkids during the summer? Didn't they do it twice?
Apparently, Gov. Shitt doesn't have his state's children's needs in mind.
Kids only matter as an excuse to shit on people they don't like. Otherwise, the sports car matters more.
Good job, Wisconsin!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d9ec259daea7e33248cabfdc0a5b2b4226fe26e0ef0daae172c762951b27c390.jpg
Judge Susan Crawford didn't just win; she won by NINE POINTS! Now THAT's democracy in action!
How's THAT feel, Lonny?
The FL result was quite good too, all things considered. The GOP candidates won, but they won by 15 points in bright red districts Trump took by 30 points. If 2026 turns out to be "2024, but -15 points" that would be, well, bigly huge. Full of win for the Ds.
Lawsuits in 3 2 1 . . .