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Joe King's avatar

𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐸𝑑𝑢𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝐷𝑒𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑣𝑒𝑛𝑒𝑑 𝑎 𝑡𝑒𝑎𝑚 𝑜𝑓 𝑒𝑑𝑢𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑣𝑎𝑙𝑢𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑎𝑙 𝑠𝑡𝑢𝑑𝑖𝑒𝑠 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑠.

Which is how it should have been done in the first place. At least they're fixing the mess Walters left behind. I have a hazmat endorsement, I can haul it away for them.

oraxx's avatar

Ryan Walters was typical of the religious extremists who draw their conclusions first, then work backward looking for justification. He saw his magic book as the solution to every problem, and that’s where his thinking evidently ended.

Stephen Brady's avatar

I can almost guarantee to you that he has never read the whole book, beginning to end. His mentor, David Barton told him exactly which parts to read and that is what he did. Can’t be polluting his pure Christian thoughts with those nasty bits in Ezekiel and Song of Solomon, can he?

oraxx's avatar

It's a good thing there is no legal definition for a historian, because David Barton may as well be calling himself an astronaut. No university that wanted to hold on to their accreditation would ever hire him to teach history.

Claudia's avatar

Think of a historian like eg a plumber. Or a baker. Basically someone who has learned certain skills, like a baker who knows how to make choux pastry, a (proper!) historian has learned how to interpret sources. And that comes with its own challenges:

Eg if you're looking at times when you've got very few written sources, you need to interpret all kinds of other remnants from that time. That's why areas such as numismatics or heraldry exist. It's where carbon dating and counting tree circles (yes, that's a thing) contribute knowledge.

And if you're looking at a time period when there are lots and lots of written sources, you'll need to find a way to filter them, because you cannot consider them all.

Claudia's avatar

Addendum - AI can (can!) be helpful. I read an article which was considering the role AI can play when looking at genealogy in Scotland. That article suggested that AI can help pointing out that eg places named in a variety of sources are actually the same place, it's just that the spelling varies so widely, not only by the poor writing skills of the people writing the documents but also by people switching from Gaelic to English and back again.

I am generally pretty anti-AI but this article gave me food for thought, so that maybe there is a role for AI.

Kukaan Ei Missään's avatar

"also by people switching from Gaelic to English and back again. "

At least part of the problem is the late development of Scottish Gaelic as a written language.

Donrox's avatar

The socially conscious words of Jesus are anathema to them!

tomhr's avatar

"magic book" ? hahahahahah

Claudia's avatar

Question - did that chap [Walters] achieve anything? I mean anything positive? Or was his tenure just a waste of time, effort and money?

Edited to add the name, it became clear that my comment was ambiguous. Apologies.

NOGODZ20's avatar

JG? He was here to derail the thread and pick fights so he could martyrbate and pretend to be persecuted for his faith.

Claudia's avatar

‘Matyrbate’ - that’s a good one.

It’s certainly better than his ‘christopretendisomething’. I actually put his phrase into my search engine (no, not google) and came across a youtube and a tiktok, all authored by one …. yes, you guessed. Our pal from yesterday.

Maybe he managed to get some clicks or views?

NOGODZ20's avatar

His Christopretensism is just an Urban Dictionary colloquialism. It's not a recognized word or concept. Not in academia, not in political discourse and not even among theologists.

Claudia's avatar

It made no sense. And the more he wrote, the less sense he made.

He clearly had no feel for the room, otherwise, he'd have written a couple of comments and then walked away.

What a twat!

(Due to his 'contributions' being scrubbed, my post about a place called Twatt got deleted, too. It's a lovely little place in the Orkney Islands and yes, they do a roaring trade of souvenirs with their village name printed on them.)

Len Koz's avatar

I saw your reference. There's also another place in the Shetlands with the same name.

Kay-El's avatar

Lol, that’s where I found it.

Claudia's avatar

I actually meant that Oklahoma chap rather than yesterday's apparition.

Claudia's avatar

No need. I wasn't very clear. I've now edited my comment to clarify.

Thank you for the new word, though.

NOGODZ20's avatar

Thanks. Wish I could claim it was one of mine. Honesty forbids. :)

Maltnothops's avatar

If you are referring to Ryan Walters, I am unaware of anything he did that might have been helpful to the condition of public education in Oklahoma. But I could say the same about every other state superintendent of education. I suspect we know more about Walters because of his resource wasting efforts. Had he been doing his job properly, he would have been largely unknown outside of OK educational circles. A lot of us here think that was the point. We believe he was angling for higher office of some sort. A Trump appointment.

Claudia's avatar

You know something? I am looking forward to all those folk scrubbing their CVs and downplaying their role they played in Trumpian times.

We've seen this movie before - there were millions of Nazis on the 25th April and hardly any a fortnight later. 1945.

I hope the same phenomenon can be observed in the year ..... [insert suitable date].

Tom Durkin's avatar

Like that joke from the first trump maladministration, updated:

Human Resources to job applicant in 2029: Interesting resume- but what were you doing from 2025 on? The resume is blank.

Applicant/former trump employee: Prison. I was in prison from 2024 to 2029.

oraxx's avatar

The religious right puts their magic book forward as self-evident truth in spite of the fact there is next to nothing in the way of independent corroboration for any of it. There is no independent corroboration for any part of the Jesus story what so ever. The Constitution does not mention the words Bible, Jesus or God, and specifically bans religious tests for holding public office. Never the less, the Christian Nationalists continue to claim this country was somehow based on their book. It wasn’t.

Richard S. Russell's avatar

And wouldn't it be nice if the standards actually required THAT FACT to be pointed out?

Psittacus Ebrius's avatar

Yes. In fact, why not post it in the public school classrooms.

Stephen Brady's avatar

Yet another lesson why fanatics should never have anything to do with education… public or otherwise.

Linda's avatar

"It's the old American double standard. Say one thing, do something different. And, of course, the country is founded on the double standard. That's our history. This country was founded on a very basic double standard. This country was founded by slave owners who wanted to be free."

-George Carlin

David Graf's avatar

Our founding fathers could not have avoided being influenced by Christianity. And, important ideas found in our government such as the separation of powers came from Locke who came up with them based upon his understanding of the Bible. However, the Constitution is not a religious document and there has never been and will never be a "Christian America". Jesus said that his kingdom was not of this world which excludes every nation and government in power.

Claudia's avatar

Yeah, I accept that. I accept that the founding fathers were influenced by christianity. After all, it was the dominant religion in their environment. So, it goes without saying that they were influenced by it.

But - and that is more important - they were aware of that influence and then CHOSE to write the constitution of the new country as a secular document. They CHOSE to write a clause specifying the separation of church and state, they chose to write a clause that there should be no religious tests before anyone can take up an office of the state.

Which means that I'd have no problem if history lessons pointed out the 'christian influence' aspect but only if they then leaned on heavily on the founding fathers' choices in writing the constitution.

Or to put more simply - by all means say 'A' but if you do, you also have to add 'B'.

David Graf's avatar

Right. It should also be pointed out that the founding fathers had the long history of religious wars in Europe to consider when writing the Constitution. Needless to say, they sure didn't want them occurring over on our side of the Atlantic.

Claudia's avatar

Absolutely!

You'll probably have seen me recommending a specific book, this one has got a whole (!) section on those religious wars, they're calling it the 'Age of Religious Discord'. That section takes up about 10% of the whole book!

Bensnewlogin's avatar

We are moving this week. I didn’t sleep well last night so I’m pretty fuzzy and tired today. You may not see me much for the rest of the week. Have fun.

Don’t forget to wash the true believers thoroughly before you chew on them. You don’t know where they’ve been.

Claudia's avatar

Wishing you all the best, hope your move goes well.

Bensnewlogin's avatar

Thank you. It actually is going well. It’s just hard to leave my house because I love it so much. But we’re moving to a very nice place that’s not too far away.

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Feb 11
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Bensnewlogin's avatar

Though it is a little late to tell you this now, the key to moving successfully it is an organization and getting rid of stuff that you really don’t need. But mostly organization. We had already decided where the major items would go. All boxes are labeled as to what room they are going to and what they contain.

Since you are post move and swimming in boxes, I can give you this much advice. You don’t have to decide where everything goes and is going to live forever. You merely need to get it out of the boxes. So make your best guess, and get it out of the boxes and get rid of the boxes. It’s a huge mistake to pick stuff up look at it turn it around a few times and put it down again.You can accomplish a huge amount in just a couple of hours if you take that as your basic principle. Once you have the boxes gone you can have room to move around.

The last time I moved was 28 years ago, and it was a relatively easy because I adhered to those rules. This is going really well right now.

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Feb 11
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Bensnewlogin's avatar

I am truly sorry that you are having to go through that. My husband is difficult enough to deal with. If He did something like yours did, we would not be married anymore.

You’re right, being systematic is not going to be helpful in the face of all of that. If there’s still so much of it, you might get yourself a dumpster. A lot less time involved. When my friend Aggie’s husband died 12 years ago, she decided it was time to move to a retirement community. She didn’t want to take care of anything. She got a very large dumpster and her daughter, an efficiency nut, just started dumping it, even though a lot of it useful, even valuable stuff. Aggie moved from a three bedroom house with a garage to a one room apartment..

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Feb 12
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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

“… the 2026 Oklahoma Standards reflect the education establishment’s studied lack of interest in patriotism, the historic roots of the American republic, or any notable achievements by conservatives or Republicans.”

You don’t teach patriotism, you engender it. You don’t have to lie and hide the truth to do so either. Patriotism is borne from the ideals that the country was built upon, the people who keep guiding faulty humans toward those ideals, and even if we don’t always live up to the ideals, we are always striving for them. So, you can’t teach pride in your country, but you can help people see the good in it so they can have pride.

What Walters actually did was make people less proud of the state and country by demanding conformity by going against the ideals that the country was built on. Any time patriotism is forced on a population, it backfires. The whole Bad Bunny Super Bowl response makes me less patriotic that a vanishing third of the country thinks that patriotism means we have to sing about how awful LGBTQ people are, or how we should be seeking our sexual partners in elementary schools, while pretending g to love Jesus, rather than celebrating the people who live and work and build up the country, even if it was sung in Spanish. One show was a Walters’ special, the other a portrait in patriotism. Despite the vitriol and violence directed at Bad Bunny by our leaders and vocal town assholes, he expressed joy, love and community. That is how you engender patriotism, not lying about history, pretending a villain is the second coming of Jesus, and forgetting that the country is for “We the People.”

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Patriotism at the point of a gun or the insistence of an authority figure is something ... but it sure as hell isn't patriotism.

Die Anyway's avatar

The beatings will continue until patriotism improves?

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Or words to that effect...

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Feb 11
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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Don't. Hold. Your. Breath. 😡

Guerillasurgeon's avatar

It's not at all odd – it was performed by 'furriners'.

Old Man Shadow's avatar

Other than slavery and genocide, I cannot corollate any overlapping themes between the foundation of the United States and the Bible.

The Bible says to submit to the governing authorities because they are put in place by God. The United States was founded as a rebellious act against the governing authorities.

The Old Testament gives the rules for a theocracy or theocratic autocracy. The New Testament is not particularly interested in describing an ideal government at all. The United States government is modeled on a classical Republic.

Our government was founded on principles from the enlightenment. That the new government was compatible with Christianity and Judaism and Islam speaks to the benefits of separation of church and state.

Thank goodness saner heads prevailed in Oklahoma.

Never thought I'd write that sentence. ;)

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Terrific. Oklahoma is at least TRYING to unfuck all the fucked-up stuff that Ryan Walters tried to put in place. If Mr. Fields can fully follow through on his expressed intentions, one might expect a serious improvement in the quality of education in the Sooner State.

And being that they languish at or near the BOTTOM of education ratings in the United States, THEY NEED IT.

Joe King's avatar

If only Walters had listened to educators in the first place. He couldn't do that, of course, because indoctrination is one hell of a drug.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Walters was so hung on his belief system that I doubt he could consider much of anything else. Anyone taking his place would be an improvement, almost by default.

Maltnothops's avatar

Walters and yesterday’s troll have a lot in common.

Stephen Brady's avatar

Hemant blocked that one. What an irritant!

Maltnothops's avatar

That one was particularly obtuse. I feel sorry for anyone who has to have him over for a holiday gathering.

Claudia's avatar

He wouldn't take a telling!

Joe King's avatar

Not just anyone. What if it had been David Barton?

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Okay ... ALMOST anyone! 😝

Psittacus Ebrius's avatar

Indoctrination that leads to hallucination.

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Feb 11
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wreck's avatar

"We are presenting a successful model that others can emulate for how to restore public education and eradicate radical woke influences from our schools."

When I hear someone use the word "woke" these days, I automatically think "That person is a complete imbecile".

Maltnothops's avatar

I think that about people who use “agenda” — unless they are referring to an actual agenda, like for a meeting.

XJC's avatar
Feb 10Edited

One can only imagine how Republicans in Oklahomastan and other Red states will re-write Trump's sham of a presidency in future history, from the re-tweets of the Obamas as apes to his lies about Jeffrey Epstein.

The United States has proven itself to be the stupidest nation on the planet, electing a malignant narcissist totally unqualified and unfit to hold what once was the most important office in the world. Not any longer. The world deplores Trump and, by association, the United States.

Trump has not only decimated the present, but he has successfully sullied the past and endangered the future. All abetted by the Republican party.

NOGODZ20's avatar

Good! Knowledge triumphs over superstition. As it should be.

Boreal's avatar

Everyone needs a friend like James.

https://ibb.co/r2Gf5cQ9

Boreal's avatar

I see that they are from outside the state, angering the local Jewish community.

Die Anyway's avatar

What do alligators have to do with Oklaho.... say what? Agitators? Never mind.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Agitator alligators! Ohmygoodness! 😱

Die Anyway's avatar

At least it's not lions, tigers and bears. 😁

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Oh, my! (George Takei voice optional!)

larry parker's avatar

"A 2022 report confirms that alligators still reside within OK."

XJC's avatar

Those damn Jews. The chutzpah to demand public funding for their yeshiva.

Something something judeo-christian values.

NOGODZ20's avatar

All that work by the child killer undone. Beautiful. And despite Walters' tongue being lodged firmly inside Trump's rectum, he never did get that cabinet position he so lusted after.

Thus it it ever with those who try to align themselves with the Golden Goblin.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

That said, I would be curious to know where Walters goes from here. Considering his penchant for shoving Christianity EVERYWHERE and especially in schools and/or government, keeping an eye on him strikes me as a fair idea.

oraxx's avatar

I have little doubt but what he will make big money on the Christian speaking circuits shedding crocodile tears about he was the victim of the godless left. Your donations appreciated.

NOGODZ20's avatar

When it happens, rest assured that Hemant will be all over it.

Boreal's avatar

He will be on the wingnut welfare tour or the NFP grift-tank circuit.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

More than likely, and preaching to the choir strikes me as about his speed.

Maltnothops's avatar

I expect he will be a thorn in our side for the next 20-25 years as he is only 40. He will hop from one conservative advocacy group to another, show up on Fox, speak at TPUSA, etc., etc.

“ In March 2025, the Freedom Foundation established the Teacher Freedom Alliance, a new national organization to provide educators with professional support services and resources.[15] The group is designed to provide educators with an alternative to teachers unions.[16] On September 25, 2025, Oklahoma Superintendent of Public Instruction Ryan Walters announced he would resign from his position and become the CEO of the Teacher Freedom Alliance.[17]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Foundation_(Washington)#Teacher_Freedom_Alliance

Claudia's avatar

He's also fairly young, there are many years ahead where he is likely to try that kind of shenanigans again.

A thought has just occurred to me, it's a question: Do you (=everyone here in this forum) think that anything could dislodge his thinking? Do you (=same) think that there is anything which would convince him that there is merit in secular spaces? Including secular education?

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Could Walters change his mind? Anything is possible. PROBABLE? Not so much. He's bought into the con so deeply that I doubt anything could dislodge him from it.

tomhr's avatar

i bet he goes on late nite tv..hawking his 'magic prayer cloth' @ 19.99, (inbtwn the tupperware,and the "REAL looking " jewelry adds )

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Stranger things 'ere now have come to pass!

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Feb 11
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John Smith's avatar

Plus, he can produce as much of the product he wants; just from his own ass!

John Smith's avatar

That is MR. ORANGE SKUNK APE to us! 😇

NOGODZ20's avatar

I tend to call him different things each time. :)

Stephen Brady's avatar

Walter’s was an incompetent fanatic, but didn’t have the jack to buy a cabinet spot.

Joan the Dork's avatar

There's one thing that's wiggling around in the back of my mind in all of this- whatever happened to Chaya Raichik? Did that vile stochastic terrorist leave with Walters, or is she still on staff at the OK Dept. of Ed. somewhere? Because we really haven't heard anything about her in a while, and bigots as 𝘭𝘰𝘶𝘥 as her don't just drop off the radar like this unless they're busy cooking up something evil in the shadow of larger events.

NOGODZ20's avatar

She still has Libs of TikTok to work her evil.

Guerillasurgeon's avatar

Yes, this is a victory – good. But how much money was wasted? These people don't seem to give a shit about waste, fraud, and abuse do they? Not if it's their waste, fraud, and abuse.

Len's avatar

They don't pay for it personally = no big deal.

larry parker's avatar

Soon, there will be 40,000 commissions.

NOGODZ20's avatar

Let's ask Jose who the REAL Christians are on the RLC.

Joan the Dork's avatar

Oh for fuck's sake, Republicans. Get yourselves some better pop culture, and we'll thank you to do it quick- the last thing we want is Nick Fuentes ringing 𝘰𝘶𝘳 doorbell!

larry parker's avatar

I think Larence Welk is dead.

Guerillasurgeon's avatar

And Liberace – gay of course.

NOGODZ20's avatar

Hope you had your clutching pearls, smelling salts and fainting couch ready. ;)

larry parker's avatar

I don't know when, but it was a bubble machine malfunction.

NOGODZ20's avatar

What really happened to Lawrence Welk

youtu.be/551TAqEO49M

larry parker's avatar

That was pretty good. Took me a few moments to figure out it was a parody.

NOGODZ20's avatar

Wanna see something freaky? The Chantays performing “Pipeline” on Lawrence Welk’s show, of all places.

youtu.be/ZFucCXherLg

Guerillasurgeon's avatar

I remember those collarless jackets. I was too poor to buy one at the time.

NOGODZ20's avatar

I have to mention this again: TPs canonization of Charlie Kirk was made specifically for Trump and the Bronze Barrage Balloon didn't even watch it. Guess where he was? That's right. Rage tweeting all through Bad Bunny's performance.

Guerillasurgeon's avatar

My God – I think I just saw a pig fly past my window.

John Smith's avatar

That group would make a better government than what the U.S has now!