To the surprise of no one, the people on the losing side here see themselves as the victims of the godless left because tax payers are not being required to support a religious school. The courts are there to interpret the law, not protect his beloved conservative Oklahoma values. Those words do not appear in any constitution or statute. The religious right never stops trying to force their religion into the public schools, paid for by everyone's tax dollars. It is tacit acknowledgment of just how weak their arguments are that they feel the need to get to children before they've reached the age of reason. Time and again they demonstrate why religion should not have any role to play in government.
Which just goes to show the depths of their paranoia, as I would hardly call either the AG or the state supreme court "godless left". But the right wing is so tribal, if you disagree with them on any point at any time, you are out of the club and considered a leftist socialist atheist muslim Soros-funded RINO. And possibly a secret lizard man too.
Gadzooks! “Secret Agent Man” by Johnny Rivers was the first 45 I had as a small child. It was a birthday gift from my parents. I thought “Secret Agent” was the coolest TV show ever.
I don't know for sure but I'm guessing that there's a lot more Baptist in Oklahoma than there are Catholics- if this grift had been for a brand new Baptist High School, do we think Gentner Drummond would have pursued it? Perhaps not......but then maybe yes since OK had already rejected the 2016 ballot. But the fact they DID deliberately bulldoze their own OK constitution even pursuing this grift should be a wake up call to voters. Christo-fascists do NOT care what voters want.
They can take up their victimhood argument with the Framers of our Constitution who gave us a secular government which was required not to promote nor interfere with anyone's freedom of religion.
People of faith who have studied history at all know that the Establishment clause is a protection, not a punishment, and needs to be preserved for their own freedom and safety.
Precisely! John Jay, one of the authors of the Federalist Papers and the first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, was the son of French Huguenot refugees. He knew full well, from his own family's experience, what happens when government and religion are mixed.
I know. I live in nothern Europe. Where the sami people were forced to send their kids to a school far away from their parents and relatives. And as my grandmother told me, they got spanked if she talked sami* and not Norwegian.
*) Sami is not one language, it is several, and because of the spanking, I never learned of what sami folks she was from.
If I were part of a people whose ancient traditions involve reindeer, I'd be very put off if someone tried to steal my heritage by imposing asinine restrictions; like they did in the US and Canada with indigenous peoples.
You are from Norway, correct? You and Blackhole Mourner amaze me with the depth of your understanding of English, not just technically, but culturally and organically.
Spanking is definitely correct, but that connotes more of swatting on the buttocks. I suspect your grandmother was whipped, beaten, or abused.
This is judging by the relearning camps aboriginal Americans sufferred.
It was the same in Wales in victorian times. Mono-lingual welsh children who started school aged 5yo were punished for speaking welsh. If one was heard doing so, a wooden pendant was put on a string round his neck with WN on it - welsh not. The child wearing the WN at the end of the day was beaten. These artifacts are still around, maybe inherited from a teacher great-grandparent and are deep in the welsh folk memory of oppression by the english.
"Liberal extremism and Marxism." Gee whiz, I had no idea that separation of Church and State was a Marxist principle. Because that's what we're talking about here: the proposition that public funds should NOT go to supporting religious organizations, INCLUDING RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS! But of course, Ryan Walters cares a lot more about promoting a Christian agenda than he cares about the constitutionality of his actions.
The real problem is that the current SCOTUS might just give Walters his way ... which would be one more indicator of the break between the Supreme Court and the foundations this country was built on.
Let's see, the First Amendment was ratified in 1791, and the first installment of 𝘋𝘢𝘴 𝘒𝘢𝘱𝘪𝘵𝘢𝘭 was published 76 years later in 1867. So, how could the Founding Fathers have been practicing Marxism? 🤔
This is a message for Ryan Walter if parents want their children to attend a Catholic school then pay it for yourself. Don’t use my payer tax dollars for that.
Really, Walters? So now it's "liberal extremism" (which isn't a thing) and "Marxism" (which you clearly don't understand) to insist that taxpayers don't have to pay for far-right religious indoctrination? And how, exactly, does it deprive parents of a choice? The only parents who would have made that choice would have been the ones who could afford to do it without government assistance in the first place.
We know what you really want here. We have seen it from your earlier tantrum about putting the Bible in every classroom. You want to ignore the First Amendment altogether so that you can make your brand of Christianity compulsory for everyone. You probably actually think that it is anti Christian discrimination to prevent you from making the reiligion mandatory. What a sad, pathetic little man you are, with a sad and pathetic little religion. One that you think needs to have the full might of the government behind it in order to exist. I pity you.
Ryan is being so stupid here, he's losing support in the legislature, he's also now lost the state Supremes (calling them Marxists is not going to go over well), and he continues down this destructive path.
Walters is having a hissy fit because the Oklahoma Supreme Court won't fall in formation behind him ... mostly because what he wants is 1) not popular, 2) is damaging to public education and 3) UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
Maybe he'll hold his breath until he turns blue ... or until SCOTUS rules in his favor.
Someone's going to run to the right of him. But will they win? Worth remembering that a majority of Oklahomans agreed with the AG on this issue, when they got the chance to vote 'repeal/no repeal the state limitation on funding religious schools.'
I don’t know. But there are some Dems in OK and I’d like to guess that they overwhelmingly voted against funding religious schools. Which would mean that a minority of Republicans would have sufficed
Oklahoma is 51% registered GOPers. Dems are 28%. That is a massive margin. A "red" state is tyically anything over about 35% registered GOPers, so in terms of statistical outcomes, OK GOPers have essentially a supermajority.
So. The "no" vote needed to have a majority of GOPers in order to succeed (i.e. for the change request to fail).
I don’t really think the state IS anymore religious than the whole southern swath. I think they have more Christian Nationalism than other states. My cousin is a 25 year veteran teacher and said her district is not doing the bible. Hopefully, more districts feel the same, especially in indigenous communities and reservations. But then I’m in Missouri and we have our own set of crazy to deal with.
Yay! Oklahoma. Yah if I lived there I so would not he paying for ANY Catholic school. Learn in a Catholic school all you want but don't FKING MAKE ME PAY FOR IT!!!!
This Ryan Walters guy is such a choad. Is this the same fricking guy that "hired" the chick from "Libs of TikTok" for some amorphous long distance position in the state DOE? He needs to go away.
Damn that's right! Oklahoma is in a race with Missouri to see who can be the most theocratic bossy-ass "small government for corporate profits" HUGE government for being up in your business and making your choices for you. I really don't feel like Kentucky is slacking, it's just that these guys are going to a whole new level of bullshit.
This is another example of conservative values vs. Christo- fascist theocratic values. It is a conservative value to WANT church-state separation, to keep government out of religion, and to spend less government money.
"The Board voted two weeks ago to appeal the decision to SCOTUS, but they have not yet filed that appeal."
Oh, they will. Every attempt in the country to further Christian theocracy will be appealed up to those corrupt, lying, bribe-taking, God-besotted, King Donald-loving "Justices" until they finally establish the Holy American Theocratic Empire. (HATE)
The Constitution does not guarantee anyone a private education on the taxpayers (unless you are the kid ofa member of Congress). It does, however, guaranteefree practice of the religion of our choice, or no practice at all.
We know. They don't want to know or pay attention to that fact. Or they believe that if they often enough repeat their own lies, they might come true. What scares me is that so many of their followers believe in them and are unable of critical thinking.
Christian parents in Oklahoma want a faith-based (Catholic) education for their kids? I hear they already have that. It's called Mass. And Catechism. And parochial school. Oh, and parents instructing their children in the faith at home.
Public schools exist to teach the facts, not the fantasies of one religion or any sect of that one religion.
In the UK, I overheard a 5yo discussing his first day at what you US-ians call 'public school' with a neighbour's child who'd had his first day at a catholic school. 'We had Mass,' said the RC child. 'Did you?' replied the other child. 'We had chips with our sausages.' (IOW, 'bangers and chips', not 'bangers and mash'.)
Public schools also (should be) teach critical thinking. Republicans' definition of 'critical thinking' is Trump criticizing everything that's not centered on him.
It's a double win- there's a new patch in the wall between church and state, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 the RCC has that much less money to perpetuate its centuries-long crime spree.
To the surprise of no one, the people on the losing side here see themselves as the victims of the godless left because tax payers are not being required to support a religious school. The courts are there to interpret the law, not protect his beloved conservative Oklahoma values. Those words do not appear in any constitution or statute. The religious right never stops trying to force their religion into the public schools, paid for by everyone's tax dollars. It is tacit acknowledgment of just how weak their arguments are that they feel the need to get to children before they've reached the age of reason. Time and again they demonstrate why religion should not have any role to play in government.
Which just goes to show the depths of their paranoia, as I would hardly call either the AG or the state supreme court "godless left". But the right wing is so tribal, if you disagree with them on any point at any time, you are out of the club and considered a leftist socialist atheist muslim Soros-funded RINO. And possibly a secret lizard man too.
No sane person would call them the godless left, but the religious right does not meet my definition of sanity.
They are political, social, and religious reactionaries.
> "...secret lizard man..."
🎼There's a man who leads a life of danger
To everyone he meets he stays a stranger
With every move he makes another chance he takes
Odds are he won't live to see tomorrow
Secret lizard man
Secret lizard man
They've given you a number, and taken away your name....
Gadzooks! “Secret Agent Man” by Johnny Rivers was the first 45 I had as a small child. It was a birthday gift from my parents. I thought “Secret Agent” was the coolest TV show ever.
https://youtu.be/Q-7nX82-Y50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezd_gZxOukw
Lyrics:
https://genius.com/Da-vincis-notebook-secret-asian-man-lyrics
I love your wording. It is absolutely fun and correct and scary.
I don't know for sure but I'm guessing that there's a lot more Baptist in Oklahoma than there are Catholics- if this grift had been for a brand new Baptist High School, do we think Gentner Drummond would have pursued it? Perhaps not......but then maybe yes since OK had already rejected the 2016 ballot. But the fact they DID deliberately bulldoze their own OK constitution even pursuing this grift should be a wake up call to voters. Christo-fascists do NOT care what voters want.
I though the same thing about them rejecting it, because it was Catholic.
Nor go they care about laws or constitutions.
A secret lizard man serving his goblin master.
️🎵 'Cause there's a red under my bed
And there's a little lizard man in my head
And there's a true blue inside of me
That keeps stoppin' me, touchin' ya, watchin' ya, lovin' ya
Paranoia, the destroyer
Paranoia, the destroyer ️🎵
"The Dream Police, they live inside of my head. The Dream Police, they come to me in my bed..."
youtu.be/15Y8--u9BwU
This video isn't available anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPemyipJzAM
Damn it! I'll try again.
You speak wingnut! Well done.
They can take up their victimhood argument with the Framers of our Constitution who gave us a secular government which was required not to promote nor interfere with anyone's freedom of religion.
The King James version of the Constitution clearly spells out the divine right of Republicans. /S
Damn, oraxx! That made my day!
Wait for Holytape and Maltnothops 😁
LOL
Religious right: if at first we don’t succeed, we’ll try, try again.
None of that “obey all earthly laws and authorities” like their bible says.
People of faith who have studied history at all know that the Establishment clause is a protection, not a punishment, and needs to be preserved for their own freedom and safety.
+++ They simply cannot get their heads around the fact rights are not matters of majority rule.
They understand that well enough when the majority is against them. They don't want rights, they want power and authority.
Precisely! John Jay, one of the authors of the Federalist Papers and the first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, was the son of French Huguenot refugees. He knew full well, from his own family's experience, what happens when government and religion are mixed.
Hell, most of European history is a cautionary tale about mixing government and religion!
I know. I live in nothern Europe. Where the sami people were forced to send their kids to a school far away from their parents and relatives. And as my grandmother told me, they got spanked if she talked sami* and not Norwegian.
*) Sami is not one language, it is several, and because of the spanking, I never learned of what sami folks she was from.
If I were part of a people whose ancient traditions involve reindeer, I'd be very put off if someone tried to steal my heritage by imposing asinine restrictions; like they did in the US and Canada with indigenous peoples.
I am put off and yes, it was the same as was done to the nothern American people.
You are from Norway, correct? You and Blackhole Mourner amaze me with the depth of your understanding of English, not just technically, but culturally and organically.
Spanking is definitely correct, but that connotes more of swatting on the buttocks. I suspect your grandmother was whipped, beaten, or abused.
This is judging by the relearning camps aboriginal Americans sufferred.
Anyway it was not a logic way to treat kids. Or grown ups.
There are these wonderful things called Internet and books 🤣
It was the same in Wales in victorian times. Mono-lingual welsh children who started school aged 5yo were punished for speaking welsh. If one was heard doing so, a wooden pendant was put on a string round his neck with WN on it - welsh not. The child wearing the WN at the end of the day was beaten. These artifacts are still around, maybe inherited from a teacher great-grandparent and are deep in the welsh folk memory of oppression by the english.
Here's a group that gets it. https://faithfulamerica.org/
Needs to be a billboard in every Republican state
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑂𝑘𝑙𝑎ℎ𝑜𝑚𝑎 𝑆𝑢𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑒 𝐶𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑠 𝑓𝑎𝑖𝑙𝑒𝑑 𝑂𝑘𝑙𝑎ℎ𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑠 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑠𝑡 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑚𝑎𝑙 𝑟𝑢𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑔𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑘𝑖𝑑𝑠. 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑒𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑎𝑡ℎ 𝑜𝑓 𝑙𝑖𝑏𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑙 𝑒𝑥𝑡𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑚 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑀𝑎𝑟𝑥𝑖𝑠𝑚 𝑏𝑦 𝑑𝑒𝑝𝑟𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑎 𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑖𝑐𝑒.
"Liberal extremism and Marxism." Gee whiz, I had no idea that separation of Church and State was a Marxist principle. Because that's what we're talking about here: the proposition that public funds should NOT go to supporting religious organizations, INCLUDING RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS! But of course, Ryan Walters cares a lot more about promoting a Christian agenda than he cares about the constitutionality of his actions.
The real problem is that the current SCOTUS might just give Walters his way ... which would be one more indicator of the break between the Supreme Court and the foundations this country was built on.
Let's see, the First Amendment was ratified in 1791, and the first installment of 𝘋𝘢𝘴 𝘒𝘢𝘱𝘪𝘵𝘢𝘭 was published 76 years later in 1867. So, how could the Founding Fathers have been practicing Marxism? 🤔
Maybe you should tell your futur you to not take them on a stroll.
It wasn't me, but I do have suspicions about someone.
Mais bien sûr.
This is a message for Ryan Walter if parents want their children to attend a Catholic school then pay it for yourself. Don’t use my payer tax dollars for that.
But it's only a small difference: tax-payer and tax-prayer.
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑒𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑎𝑡ℎ 𝑜𝑓 𝑙𝑖𝑏𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑙 𝑒𝑥𝑡𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑚 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑀𝑎𝑟𝑥𝑖𝑠𝑚 𝑏𝑦 𝑑𝑒𝑝𝑟𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑎 𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑖𝑐𝑒.
Really, Walters? So now it's "liberal extremism" (which isn't a thing) and "Marxism" (which you clearly don't understand) to insist that taxpayers don't have to pay for far-right religious indoctrination? And how, exactly, does it deprive parents of a choice? The only parents who would have made that choice would have been the ones who could afford to do it without government assistance in the first place.
We know what you really want here. We have seen it from your earlier tantrum about putting the Bible in every classroom. You want to ignore the First Amendment altogether so that you can make your brand of Christianity compulsory for everyone. You probably actually think that it is anti Christian discrimination to prevent you from making the reiligion mandatory. What a sad, pathetic little man you are, with a sad and pathetic little religion. One that you think needs to have the full might of the government behind it in order to exist. I pity you.
Ryan is being so stupid here, he's losing support in the legislature, he's also now lost the state Supremes (calling them Marxists is not going to go over well), and he continues down this destructive path.
I'm enjoying the hell out of it.
It's always entertaining when the pendulum starts swinging the other way...
Walters is having a hissy fit because the Oklahoma Supreme Court won't fall in formation behind him ... mostly because what he wants is 1) not popular, 2) is damaging to public education and 3) UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
Maybe he'll hold his breath until he turns blue ... or until SCOTUS rules in his favor.
Right now he's hoping that his orange savior will win in November so he can prohibit public education, shred the Constitution, and ignore the people.
What a nightmare. I will have to rent a house so my inlaws can get over here and seek asylym based on religious fanatism.
Amazing: Omniscient, omnipotent God needs Walters to represent him, and God still lost!
I like your comment!!!
That AG is gonna get himself primaried if he keeps obeying the law.
Someone's going to run to the right of him. But will they win? Worth remembering that a majority of Oklahomans agreed with the AG on this issue, when they got the chance to vote 'repeal/no repeal the state limitation on funding religious schools.'
But how did a majority of Republicans vote?
I don’t know. But there are some Dems in OK and I’d like to guess that they overwhelmingly voted against funding religious schools. Which would mean that a minority of Republicans would have sufficed
Oklahoma is 51% registered GOPers. Dems are 28%. That is a massive margin. A "red" state is tyically anything over about 35% registered GOPers, so in terms of statistical outcomes, OK GOPers have essentially a supermajority.
So. The "no" vote needed to have a majority of GOPers in order to succeed (i.e. for the change request to fail).
Especially in a state tied with Georgia as the 8th most religious (read: Christian) in the USofA.
I don’t really think the state IS anymore religious than the whole southern swath. I think they have more Christian Nationalism than other states. My cousin is a 25 year veteran teacher and said her district is not doing the bible. Hopefully, more districts feel the same, especially in indigenous communities and reservations. But then I’m in Missouri and we have our own set of crazy to deal with.
Yay! Oklahoma. Yah if I lived there I so would not he paying for ANY Catholic school. Learn in a Catholic school all you want but don't FKING MAKE ME PAY FOR IT!!!!
Exactly!!!!
This Ryan Walters guy is such a choad. Is this the same fricking guy that "hired" the chick from "Libs of TikTok" for some amorphous long distance position in the state DOE? He needs to go away.
Yes it is the same guy. The same guy who encouraged the hostile environment that led to Nex Benedict's murder.
Damn that's right! Oklahoma is in a race with Missouri to see who can be the most theocratic bossy-ass "small government for corporate profits" HUGE government for being up in your business and making your choices for you. I really don't feel like Kentucky is slacking, it's just that these guys are going to a whole new level of bullshit.
Yes, that is him
You mean the horrible stochastic terrorism instigator?
Yep!
This is another example of conservative values vs. Christo- fascist theocratic values. It is a conservative value to WANT church-state separation, to keep government out of religion, and to spend less government money.
The current Republican party is conservative like I'm a concert violinist. Not even close: my instrument is piano, not violin!
I played trombone in 6th grade. 7th grade, band conflicted with advanced math (pre-algebra) so I didn't continue with band.
Trombone, eh? Do da name Urbie Green strike a familiar note? If not (and even if so), have a listen to the following:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zGkRAtJQ9A
"The Board voted two weeks ago to appeal the decision to SCOTUS, but they have not yet filed that appeal."
Oh, they will. Every attempt in the country to further Christian theocracy will be appealed up to those corrupt, lying, bribe-taking, God-besotted, King Donald-loving "Justices" until they finally establish the Holy American Theocratic Empire. (HATE)
The Constitution does not guarantee anyone a private education on the taxpayers (unless you are the kid ofa member of Congress). It does, however, guaranteefree practice of the religion of our choice, or no practice at all.
We know. They don't want to know or pay attention to that fact. Or they believe that if they often enough repeat their own lies, they might come true. What scares me is that so many of their followers believe in them and are unable of critical thinking.
Ryan Walters. The man whose hatred of transgender people led to the beating death of Nex Benedict.
Christians, especially hardcore conservative ones, are NOT "pro-life."
That was a marketing campaign.
https://www.printmag.com/political-design/the-semiotics-of-a-movement-how-pro-life-became-a-marketing-campaign/
Christian parents in Oklahoma want a faith-based (Catholic) education for their kids? I hear they already have that. It's called Mass. And Catechism. And parochial school. Oh, and parents instructing their children in the faith at home.
Public schools exist to teach the facts, not the fantasies of one religion or any sect of that one religion.
In the UK, I overheard a 5yo discussing his first day at what you US-ians call 'public school' with a neighbour's child who'd had his first day at a catholic school. 'We had Mass,' said the RC child. 'Did you?' replied the other child. 'We had chips with our sausages.' (IOW, 'bangers and chips', not 'bangers and mash'.)
Chips with bangers and not mash?
*swoons and faints*
Public schools also (should be) teach critical thinking. Republicans' definition of 'critical thinking' is Trump criticizing everything that's not centered on him.
Does that superintendent even know what Marxism is apart from a scare word? Doesn't he recognize that liberals and non-Christians live in that state?
In his bubble, non christians are apostates who need a good brain washing.
If they get power, the Dominionists will have an inquisition which would curl the hair of the RCC - and destroy many, many lives.
Yes, a good brain-washing will have to do. Ryan would prefer a good flogging for them (to drive the demons out) but that's not legal.
Yet.
Marxism, communism, potato, potahto. If you aren’t with them, you’re one of those. 🙄
It's a double win- there's a new patch in the wall between church and state, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 the RCC has that much less money to perpetuate its centuries-long crime spree.
Oklahoma native Seth "The Thinking Atheist" Andrews had this to say on the subject
"#Oklahoma demonstrates a moment of sanity."
(from his Twitterfeed)