Disgusted? Enraged? Oh, you betcha. Surprised? Who are YOU kidding? Endemic, systemic abuse, sourcing from religious organizations, seems to be roughly as reliable as the sun rising in the east, and it doesn't matter whether it's New Jersey or New Zealand. There it is.
Yet the report on this pervasive abuse recommends nothing more than APOLOGIES for this heinous action? COME ON!!! At minimum, fines should be levied on each organization and the leaders and supporters should be subject to civil action at minimum and criminal arrest at maximum. Let's keep in mind: this hasn't been going on for just years or decades, but CENTURIES, and possibly well over a millennium, in the case of the Catholic Church. Tolerance or hand-slaps will only encourage them to continue this behavior until strong action is taken to dissuade them of it.
New Zealand needs to be a LOT more serious about this than they seem to be at this moment.
Quite some time back, YouTube producer TheraminTrees did a two-part video on revelations of abuses by Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia. The two videos take maybe something more than an hour to go through, which I did, and I was horrified at what was documented there. Yet I wonder if the Aussies have taken any serious action against the JWs because of the comprehensive study which revealed those abuses.
Religion continues to get a pass, despite all of this crap, and it is infuriating.
These are nothing but cults of abuse - even the liberal Methodists and Presbyterians. There needs to be enabling legislation to force them to report abuse when reported, with severe legal ramifications for failing to report.
Yes, religion is a cancer on society. Just like cancer of the body, we do not have cures for all of them. However; with science we are managing some cancers.
Education and groups like this are tools to fight these cancers.
In the US I've also wondered about the Indian Boarding Schools and whether we would find the kinds of horrifying evidence like they have in Canada. But we've yet to investigate those facilities grounds as thoroughly as they did and I don't think it's something anyone in government is planning to do.
Great point! I did my doctoral thesis on Native American youth stolen from their families and culture and put in these horrible places. So much of the research at the time just covered these horrors under the rug. Later I learned some horrible facts. And we wonder why there is such a huge drug and alcohol problem among Native Americans. We are to blame
That's what I was thinking. I'm thinking that due to the structure of the US we'd never be able to get a very accurate national report, if we were motivated to attempt one. Which we're not.
If there were actually the god of these churches, why wouldn’t he appear to tell these abusers that they are not representing him and they need to repent.
And both those choices are true. Taking the bible as reference, Yahweh is the most abusive sonofabitch this planet has ever been aware of. Taking reality and the utter lack of evidence of ANY form of god as a basis, No. 2 is just as true.
Be it childcare or anything else, 'faith-based' is an admission these institutions think of themselves as operating under divine sanction. Once people delude themselves into believing God's on their side, they are capable of justifying almost any horror. Children should NEVER be entrusted to the clergy.
Anyone claiming religious justification for their movement - remember the (original) NAZIs hav belt buckles with "Gott mit Uns" on them - God is on our side.
Keep in mind: In Germany, "Gott mit Uns" predates the Nazis. The soldiers of WW1 wore that declaration on their helmets. When the Nazis took power, they simply added a swastika to it and moved it to the belt buckle.
Christers claim that the Nazis were atheists. If so, this is a very strange thing for atheists to do. They'd have eliminated the slogan altogether. Of course we know (and the record shows) that the Nazis were Catholics and Lutherans. Both Hitler and Himmler (avowed believers) disparaged atheists.
And I love to point that fact out to the (so-called) christians, who claim atheists have murdered more people than christianity has.They always lie and say the Nazis weren't christian.
I am so sorry for the thousands of people abused by the Catholic Church and other churches in New Zealand. This is fing disgraceful! When will the Catholic Church start weeding out the child molesters and abusers. When? When money isn't their highest priority. Shame on everybody who knew and did NOTHING!!!!
The Vatican could start with selling or returning some of its priceless works of art. One painting one statue equals millions. But boys like their pretty toys. This is the beginning of the end. Nothing Christ- like about the Catholic church.
Nothing would please me more than to see the Vatican take a "Shoes of the Fisherman" approach to the problems of the world, but they'll never do it. Too much of the Church is in love with the pomp and circumstance (and WEALTH!) to ever consider such a thing.
The last Catholic church I went to has the priests wear vestments made of gold thread that take thousands of dollars for their upkeep. But doesn't have a weekly homeless meal. Pomp and parishioners pay.
I think it's money and women. Money because they have to look like it's all there when it isn't, and priests have always been taught that the Catholic Church is their bride who needs protection. So no women priests. And the abuse continues because they are still so respected.
There are exceptions to this, though, like a nun in Japan who lives in a convent in Nagano, and does a lot of social work helping the homeless in Japan and also (before and during the period the winter Olympics were held in Nagano) helped the migrant workers hired by Japanese firms to build many of the facilities for the Olympics, and also helped the young dancing girls in a mob-run bar (all of this mentioned in the book The Great Olympic Swindle by Andrew Jennings [he also talks to a priest who turned down a request to perform private Mass for IOC head Juan Antonio Samaranch.])
The amount of jewelry alone would feed all those who go hungry each day and provide enough medicine to cure the simplest diseases that kill when left untreated.
They don't have enough priests-to-be in the pipeline to fill the vacancies they have now... The RCC is an outdated and ancient bureaucracy which has become entirely self-serving.
Guess what! The Catholic Church is okay with gay men-- if they are priests If a Catholic priest is gonna have sexual relations? Chances are it's with another(male) priest. The normal ones anyway. The Catholic Church frowns upon a Catholic priest having relations with a woman. Why? Women get pregnant! But the Catholic Church will preach about one man one woman love/ marriage all they want and the priest preaching is sleeping around with other priests. The Pastor of my Catholic church did. We all knew. Probably more than 70% do that. The other 30% are child molesters.
They talk constantly that the child abuse problem will be solved by getting the gay men out of the priesthood. But it’s no surprise they are saying one thing and doing another.
I'd rather have Queer priests having adult sexual relationships with other male priests than straight priests who are child molesters. Queerness or straightness isn't the issue it's the vows they are making. Child molesters will try different lines of work when the Catholic Church finally outlaws and condemns and prosecutes the millions of child molesters they have now and fully compensating every single victim.
Absolutely nothing to do with being Queer. I am a Queer woman. I know several Queer men and women who would rather die than touch a child. If you think that child molesters are simply Queer people with sick sexual desires-- you are so wrong.
Cardinal Francis Spellman used to go to gay bars in his off-time in New York City, wearing a ballgown and cavorting with other gay men, including (IIRC) Jimmy Donahue, heir to the Woolworth fortune.
If you find the clothing of an 8-year-old seductive, cut your balls off. A normal person finds 'seductive' clothing on an 8 year to be disgusting and possibly abuse by a parent.
JW abusers often claim that they were seduced by the children - and elders who heard their story believe it, then chastise the victims. This is all too common among members of their faith. They are not charitable and need ro have their tax exempt status revoked, and then all the ones who knew of abuse and did not report should be charged criminally.
I know little of this report is a surprise to most here, except perhaps the amount of abuse that took place. Having no religious affiliation is not a bad thing in the least; it’s apparently necessary to keep abusers at bay from one’s family. How anyone can support a religious organization given the amount of criming in the name of god is a travesty.
Yes, I mean it's primarily been due to her attending anything related to religion (like she went to Catholic school for a few years but we don't belong to the church) that I had age appropriate conversations with her about never being alone with any adult etc. I did this for all of her schools but I wasn't as worried about it when she was in public schools. It's a mixed bag because her public middle school kind of traded my fear of abuse in for a fear of gun violence. What would be novel is not having a realistic expectation that something terrible could happen at school no matter where I send her.
Allowing these savages access to children is only a degree of difference from handing them over to hungry wild animals to tear apart and devour alive. The only important difference is that at least the animals are kinder, they make it quick rather than indulging in multi generational abuse.
Well - unfortunately not surprising... the very same thing went on in the boarding schools they kidnapped all those Native American kids into in the US and Canada. Someone said something like "men never commit evil so gleefully as in the name of religion. "
I have listened to various Christians insist at high volume that they and their compatriots are more moral, have better values, care more, provide for, and/or generally have better households to raise children in. Funny how no third party ever seems to be able to confirm that idea and all too often finds the exact opposite.
This sort of article provides more than ample reason to shut down every religious organization, club, church, synagogue, mosque, or whatever I may have missed for good. The complete disregard for the welfare of the most vulnerable members of society is beyond disgusting, and it's clear by now these religious groups have zero interest in changing that. We don't let pedophiles teach kindergarten for a reason. I see no reason not to apply the same @#$(*&% logic to churches. Even when caught 𝑖𝑛 𝑓𝑙𝑎𝑔𝑟𝑎𝑛𝑡𝑒 𝑑𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑜, they pretend they aren't responsible or shouldn't be held accountable because of their precious 'faith' that makes them 'better'.
No more. Shut down these blights on the human race. I'm sick of reading articles like this and even more sick it might still be happening. Time to clean house.
And what they need to do is compensate every victim financially. EVERY. VICTIM. "OH but we can't do that". Yes they can. Take away the perks of priests. Make the priests get a second job to help pay for the victims compensations. Then maybe hopefully the abuse will stop. Doubt it. When it hits the priests personally? That would be awesome. Or go out of business. Simple.
We in Canada, have been discovering the abuse committed by the religious schools known as Residential schools. The nuns and priests systematically undermined Indigenous, First Nations, Métis and Inuit cultures across Canada and disrupted families for generations, severing the ties through which Indigenous culture is taught and sustained, and contributing to a general loss of language and culture.
The nuns and priests buried thousands of abused children in unmarked graves behind the schools. It is genocide.
Disgusted? Enraged? Oh, you betcha. Surprised? Who are YOU kidding? Endemic, systemic abuse, sourcing from religious organizations, seems to be roughly as reliable as the sun rising in the east, and it doesn't matter whether it's New Jersey or New Zealand. There it is.
Yet the report on this pervasive abuse recommends nothing more than APOLOGIES for this heinous action? COME ON!!! At minimum, fines should be levied on each organization and the leaders and supporters should be subject to civil action at minimum and criminal arrest at maximum. Let's keep in mind: this hasn't been going on for just years or decades, but CENTURIES, and possibly well over a millennium, in the case of the Catholic Church. Tolerance or hand-slaps will only encourage them to continue this behavior until strong action is taken to dissuade them of it.
New Zealand needs to be a LOT more serious about this than they seem to be at this moment.
The saddest thing, is NZ is actually more serious in this investigation than France or US.
Quite some time back, YouTube producer TheraminTrees did a two-part video on revelations of abuses by Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia. The two videos take maybe something more than an hour to go through, which I did, and I was horrified at what was documented there. Yet I wonder if the Aussies have taken any serious action against the JWs because of the comprehensive study which revealed those abuses.
Religion continues to get a pass, despite all of this crap, and it is infuriating.
These are nothing but cults of abuse - even the liberal Methodists and Presbyterians. There needs to be enabling legislation to force them to report abuse when reported, with severe legal ramifications for failing to report.
Yes, religion is a cancer on society. Just like cancer of the body, we do not have cures for all of them. However; with science we are managing some cancers.
Education and groups like this are tools to fight these cancers.
Remember the rapist priest who was released upon appeal or by their supreme court. You have your answer.
Unfortunately they have not.
In the US I've also wondered about the Indian Boarding Schools and whether we would find the kinds of horrifying evidence like they have in Canada. But we've yet to investigate those facilities grounds as thoroughly as they did and I don't think it's something anyone in government is planning to do.
Great point! I did my doctoral thesis on Native American youth stolen from their families and culture and put in these horrible places. So much of the research at the time just covered these horrors under the rug. Later I learned some horrible facts. And we wonder why there is such a huge drug and alcohol problem among Native Americans. We are to blame
That's what I was thinking. I'm thinking that due to the structure of the US we'd never be able to get a very accurate national report, if we were motivated to attempt one. Which we're not.
The clergy has been allowed to hide behind their Bibles and clerical collars for far too long.
If there were actually the god of these churches, why wouldn’t he appear to tell these abusers that they are not representing him and they need to repent.
Two possible answers:
1. God himself is an abuser
2. He doesn’t exist
And both those choices are true. Taking the bible as reference, Yahweh is the most abusive sonofabitch this planet has ever been aware of. Taking reality and the utter lack of evidence of ANY form of god as a basis, No. 2 is just as true.
God didn’t smite them, therefore it approves of them.
Gee, two religious organizations abusing people? Ask me why I'm an atheist.
Ditto! Living a life free of fairy tale guilt
Be it childcare or anything else, 'faith-based' is an admission these institutions think of themselves as operating under divine sanction. Once people delude themselves into believing God's on their side, they are capable of justifying almost any horror. Children should NEVER be entrusted to the clergy.
Anyone claiming religious justification for their movement - remember the (original) NAZIs hav belt buckles with "Gott mit Uns" on them - God is on our side.
Keep in mind: In Germany, "Gott mit Uns" predates the Nazis. The soldiers of WW1 wore that declaration on their helmets. When the Nazis took power, they simply added a swastika to it and moved it to the belt buckle.
Christers claim that the Nazis were atheists. If so, this is a very strange thing for atheists to do. They'd have eliminated the slogan altogether. Of course we know (and the record shows) that the Nazis were Catholics and Lutherans. Both Hitler and Himmler (avowed believers) disparaged atheists.
And, the deal with the devil the Catholics made with Hitler: Don’t criticize the führer, and the Catholic Church can keep its gold.
And get rid of some of the competition in the persecution of those of the Jewish faith.
The rub/big thing is, Hitler came to despise Christianity eventually, and even had priests sent to the concentration camp, IIRC.
+++
And I love to point that fact out to the (so-called) christians, who claim atheists have murdered more people than christianity has.They always lie and say the Nazis weren't christian.
But...but...they said they're sorry. Isn't that enough?
Um . . . no. Maybe they think Jesus forgave them, but the parents of the children they abused certainly haven't.
In their minds it is. Okay, problem solved, move along folks, nothing to see here.
🖕🏾
ICYMI, that was sarcasm.
The American Catholic Bishops will issue a proclamation of faith-based persecution in 3...2...1....
We have some of the most venal fucks here.
I am so sorry for the thousands of people abused by the Catholic Church and other churches in New Zealand. This is fing disgraceful! When will the Catholic Church start weeding out the child molesters and abusers. When? When money isn't their highest priority. Shame on everybody who knew and did NOTHING!!!!
If they do, it won't have enough priests to populate and maintain the Vatican. Not that that would be a bad thing.
The Vatican could start with selling or returning some of its priceless works of art. One painting one statue equals millions. But boys like their pretty toys. This is the beginning of the end. Nothing Christ- like about the Catholic church.
Nothing would please me more than to see the Vatican take a "Shoes of the Fisherman" approach to the problems of the world, but they'll never do it. Too much of the Church is in love with the pomp and circumstance (and WEALTH!) to ever consider such a thing.
The last Catholic church I went to has the priests wear vestments made of gold thread that take thousands of dollars for their upkeep. But doesn't have a weekly homeless meal. Pomp and parishioners pay.
I think it's money and women. Money because they have to look like it's all there when it isn't, and priests have always been taught that the Catholic Church is their bride who needs protection. So no women priests. And the abuse continues because they are still so respected.
There are exceptions to this, though, like a nun in Japan who lives in a convent in Nagano, and does a lot of social work helping the homeless in Japan and also (before and during the period the winter Olympics were held in Nagano) helped the migrant workers hired by Japanese firms to build many of the facilities for the Olympics, and also helped the young dancing girls in a mob-run bar (all of this mentioned in the book The Great Olympic Swindle by Andrew Jennings [he also talks to a priest who turned down a request to perform private Mass for IOC head Juan Antonio Samaranch.])
The amount of jewelry alone would feed all those who go hungry each day and provide enough medicine to cure the simplest diseases that kill when left untreated.
Nothing Christ- like about any church.
They don't have enough priests-to-be in the pipeline to fill the vacancies they have now... The RCC is an outdated and ancient bureaucracy which has become entirely self-serving.
That's why they are mining the dregs of Africa to get more con men er, priests.
They're too busy trying to weed out the gay men, to worry about the actual child molesters.
Guess what! The Catholic Church is okay with gay men-- if they are priests If a Catholic priest is gonna have sexual relations? Chances are it's with another(male) priest. The normal ones anyway. The Catholic Church frowns upon a Catholic priest having relations with a woman. Why? Women get pregnant! But the Catholic Church will preach about one man one woman love/ marriage all they want and the priest preaching is sleeping around with other priests. The Pastor of my Catholic church did. We all knew. Probably more than 70% do that. The other 30% are child molesters.
They talk constantly that the child abuse problem will be solved by getting the gay men out of the priesthood. But it’s no surprise they are saying one thing and doing another.
I'd rather have Queer priests having adult sexual relationships with other male priests than straight priests who are child molesters. Queerness or straightness isn't the issue it's the vows they are making. Child molesters will try different lines of work when the Catholic Church finally outlaws and condemns and prosecutes the millions of child molesters they have now and fully compensating every single victim.
"The Catholic Church is okay with gay men"
There are a large number of catholics who will claim the abuse problem is caused by gay priests.
Absolutely nothing to do with being Queer. I am a Queer woman. I know several Queer men and women who would rather die than touch a child. If you think that child molesters are simply Queer people with sick sexual desires-- you are so wrong.
Which is silly, pedophiles are pedophiles because they desire children sexually.
Cardinal Francis Spellman used to go to gay bars in his off-time in New York City, wearing a ballgown and cavorting with other gay men, including (IIRC) Jimmy Donahue, heir to the Woolworth fortune.
I think Cardinal I put a Spell on Men's favorite ballgown was an off the shoulder blue number with peacock feathers in the back.
With a world population of around 8 billion and a New Zealand population of 5 million, about one in 1600 are New Zealanders. Do the math.
If you find the clothing of an 8-year-old seductive, cut your balls off. A normal person finds 'seductive' clothing on an 8 year to be disgusting and possibly abuse by a parent.
JW abusers often claim that they were seduced by the children - and elders who heard their story believe it, then chastise the victims. This is all too common among members of their faith. They are not charitable and need ro have their tax exempt status revoked, and then all the ones who knew of abuse and did not report should be charged criminally.
Didn't Jesus tell them to put out their eyes?
His grasp of medicine left a lot to be desired. It’s not surprising he would have hit on a half-measure.
As always, the kkkrister rules pertain only to non kkkristers.
I know little of this report is a surprise to most here, except perhaps the amount of abuse that took place. Having no religious affiliation is not a bad thing in the least; it’s apparently necessary to keep abusers at bay from one’s family. How anyone can support a religious organization given the amount of criming in the name of god is a travesty.
I would never allow my kids anywhere near a church, knowing what I know now. And I would make sure they knew why.
Yes, I mean it's primarily been due to her attending anything related to religion (like she went to Catholic school for a few years but we don't belong to the church) that I had age appropriate conversations with her about never being alone with any adult etc. I did this for all of her schools but I wasn't as worried about it when she was in public schools. It's a mixed bag because her public middle school kind of traded my fear of abuse in for a fear of gun violence. What would be novel is not having a realistic expectation that something terrible could happen at school no matter where I send her.
Show them the Oscar-winning film "Spotlight."
It stopped before cardinal law was kidnapped and flown by PRIVATE JET to the vatican to prevent his testimony under oath in hundreds of abuse trials.
My sister is teaching her grandchildren that the bible is just stories, not real.
Yet unbelievers are the immoral ones, according to Christians.
They love to point fingers, but hate it when far more fingers point right back at them.
DARVO at work.
Ever so.
Allowing these savages access to children is only a degree of difference from handing them over to hungry wild animals to tear apart and devour alive. The only important difference is that at least the animals are kinder, they make it quick rather than indulging in multi generational abuse.
Well - unfortunately not surprising... the very same thing went on in the boarding schools they kidnapped all those Native American kids into in the US and Canada. Someone said something like "men never commit evil so gleefully as in the name of religion. "
Blaise Pascal
https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/b/blaisepascal/133606/blaisepascal1-2x.jpg
Found in his posthumous work "Pensees" (1670).
He died in 1662.
I have listened to various Christians insist at high volume that they and their compatriots are more moral, have better values, care more, provide for, and/or generally have better households to raise children in. Funny how no third party ever seems to be able to confirm that idea and all too often finds the exact opposite.
This sort of article provides more than ample reason to shut down every religious organization, club, church, synagogue, mosque, or whatever I may have missed for good. The complete disregard for the welfare of the most vulnerable members of society is beyond disgusting, and it's clear by now these religious groups have zero interest in changing that. We don't let pedophiles teach kindergarten for a reason. I see no reason not to apply the same @#$(*&% logic to churches. Even when caught 𝑖𝑛 𝑓𝑙𝑎𝑔𝑟𝑎𝑛𝑡𝑒 𝑑𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑜, they pretend they aren't responsible or shouldn't be held accountable because of their precious 'faith' that makes them 'better'.
No more. Shut down these blights on the human race. I'm sick of reading articles like this and even more sick it might still be happening. Time to clean house.
^THIS!!!^
Bet there isn't a single drag queen among any of these child abusers.
The real groomers remain men of the cloth.
They were all Antifa
Christian clergy? Profa, in their case. Forever Profa.
False flags traitors.
Is there a difference?
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/452851799_463710486459562_7733964919898700537_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=aFUtO7SQDtgQ7kNvgHe_MtF&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AYBUOYe3j7wtbLBmq6LvLW3hlPbNORk3BvSw0QtdbUDtiQ&oe=66A86643
The tag on the lamb is at least serves an actual function.
The one on magas too. It helps to spot morons.
Yeah ... if they're not wearing those verkakte red hats!
That's baaaa-ad.
Ewe herd it here first.
Of all the people to choose to worship... They chose Trump.
Crap like this is why I have so little hope for humanity.
These are just the cases that are known. I'm thinking the real total is staggeringly higher.
(Of course, even one is far, far too many)
Always is.
And what they need to do is compensate every victim financially. EVERY. VICTIM. "OH but we can't do that". Yes they can. Take away the perks of priests. Make the priests get a second job to help pay for the victims compensations. Then maybe hopefully the abuse will stop. Doubt it. When it hits the priests personally? That would be awesome. Or go out of business. Simple.
seize and liquidate these churches’ real-estate holdings.
and end their tax-free privileges, with retroactive effect from the date of the earliest alleged abuses.
Sounds good. Let's make it happen!!!
Hit them even MORE personally: PUT THEM IN JAIL!
Yes.
reality suggests you are correct.
We in Canada, have been discovering the abuse committed by the religious schools known as Residential schools. The nuns and priests systematically undermined Indigenous, First Nations, Métis and Inuit cultures across Canada and disrupted families for generations, severing the ties through which Indigenous culture is taught and sustained, and contributing to a general loss of language and culture.
The nuns and priests buried thousands of abused children in unmarked graves behind the schools. It is genocide.
This showed up in my FB feed. 12 photos including the sun taken at the same time and same date for 12 months. Fascinating.
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/451814714_122158934582223838_5115616258633199797_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=xNGutgv5HlkQ7kNvgENXYE2&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AYBQV8zvbaNgzPlg8stE-BHJiaImCa4L9UZTgBUqSPBk8Q&oe=66A850BB
"There goes the Sun (doo doo doo doo), there goes the Sun..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A35Zt_FUdaI
https://genius.com/Pernice-brothers-there-goes-the-sun-lyrics
Had no idea his song existed. Thank you.
Beautiful!
So, have they screamed ＰΣＲＳΣＣＵＴＩ♢Ｎ yet?
Do they ever not?
Touche.
Do the persecutors of children dare to shout persecution?
Of course they will. How dare we persecute them for persecuting children?