My most important takeaway: “their lives can be fulfilling and wonderful and guilt-free outside the bubble of Mormonism.” It was this fear that I could be wrong and that I might be condemning my kids to hell that motivated me to raise those children in the Mormon Church. It had nothing to do with actual belief. And I have a doctorate degree. The power of culture is stronger than just about any other social construct.
I can understand his point but you also have to take into consideration that young children may not have the intellectual capability to fully understand a particular topic. And yet, you do not want to lie to them. When they get older and recall your shading of the truth, they may wonder if they can believe anything you say. A good book in my opinion which can be of help is "How to Talk to Kids About Anything: Answering Kids' Hard Questions with Confidence" by Robyn Silverman.
Seth is the genuine article, no BS, not remotely full of himself. A regular guy who figured it out, and did so brilliantly, IMHO. I've met the man and had a chance to get to know him at least a little.
The same applies to religions of all sorts, especially high-control religions like the LDS and other flavors of christianity. That's why it often takes years to deconvert. But it's worth it. Once the church loses that final hold on you, you're truly free.
Also, any religion that teaches you to turn away from family or friends who leave isn't a religion, it's a cult.
If you live in a community where the majority subscribes to a faith and take it seriously, stepping away from it may put you in a position where you need to leave not just the religion but the community as well if they decide to ostracize you.
Yes, I get that. But I stand by my statement: If your religion teaches that you can't associate with family or friends who leave the faith, that's a cult.
By the way, my kids DID end up being able to swim through things and are in their thirties and not captive. I suspect that they always knew I wasn't an actual believer.
This whole story sounds more than a little like a David versus Goliath redux. Big, powerful, seriously monied Mormon Church against a podcaster who has the unmitigated nerve to throw stones – ACCURATELY – at the monolith. The Church can't go after Dehlin for the stories themselves; they're just people relating their experiences. So, Big Bad LDS has to take cheap shots at poor targets.
Ordinarily, I'd say that I hope Dehlin takes the LDS for money they didn't know they had ... except that they DO know, and that's a shit-ton of scratch! Still, I like the sound of a counter-suit!
I'm curious as to whether or not this will be a jury trial and how exactly they go about selecting that jury? Because I think it's going to be pretty difficult for them to find anyone without an opinion or bias for or against the Mormon Church.
This reeks of the Scientology habit of suing to get their way. I mean, Scientology was able to build an entire religion by using lawsuits to keep folks from looking too deeply at their claims and practices. I’m betting the LDS is hoping to flex its muscles this way as well, thinking they have the money to manipulate the courts just as well, if not better, than Scientology. The timing, I’m sure, has everything to do with the Christian supremacy coursing through the Trump regime. Even if Mormons aren’t considered real Christians, like feeds like.
One more reason to tax the living daylights out of churches and especially megachurches like the LDS and the Roman Catholic Church. They may be churches, but they ACT like corporations ... and as it comes to that:
The mormons have had a bug up their collective ass about John Dehlin for years - because his podcast is compelling. But this is a clear First Amendment case, and 'mormon' is common-usage word - which the church itself has stopped using. They just want Dehlin to have to spend money on a vindictive lawsuit. Says a lot about the confidence this church has in itself and its believers, eh? I hope the ACLU and Freedom From Religion Foundation take up this case on John's behalf. NOBODY who listens to 5 minutes of a Mormon Stories episode can seriously claim they didn't know what they were listening to. Also, John Dehlin is nearly as well-known a mormon 'apostate' as Sandra Tanner. Be serious!
Just because people stumble across a 'misleading' website doesn't make a case that the church or its followers have been damaged in any way.
I suspect the lawsuit is the product of a butt-hurt Mormon hierarchy that wants to swat a fly uselessly, and likely because they think Dehlin is an easy target.
I suspect he will prove not to be such an easy target, and the church will end up with a shiner, a massive payout, and more TBMs checking out Mormon Stories.
“Unless these acts of Mormon Stories are restrained by this Court, they will continue, and they will continue to cause irreparable injury to Plaintiffs and to the public, for which there is no adequate remedy at law.”
Let me translate.
“Please make him stop his podcast, we are losing followers and we need the government to make people believe our nonsense. Wah wah wah.”
Duh they’re going after him because he’s giving people who are doubting a place to consider their own feelings and thoughts without pressure.
Small wonder that the crusty old farts running the Mormon church want this podcast gone- if there's one thing a con artist hates, it's someone giving their victims a voice.
Most established Christian sects have viewed the Mormons- or Latter Day Saints - or whatever they call themselves- as not being a true Christian faith. Sort of like evangelicals not considering Catholicism as a true Christian faith. All these factions claiming to be the real thing. I was raised strict southern Baptist and know for a fact they consider themselves to be the true followers of Jesus aka Trump.
Uhhh...there's enough truth in your statement to hurt but I have run into others who appreciate that Christians are not found only in their particular group. I recall C.S. Lewis who wrote about the difference between the visible and invisible church. The visible church consists of several different faith traditions with their buildings and hierarchies and history. The invisible church refers to the body of believers regardless of their denominational connection. You don't often hear much from the invisible church because they aren't tooting their own horns but genuinely trying to help others.
That's the part I can't get past, started by a con man in jail, who loved to bone little girls, so thought up a way he could bone as many as possible, and they think he was holy!
Pro-Trump Ohio pastor Silas Shelton — who in 2023 appeared before the Little Miami Local School District board to rail against LGBTQ+ books in schools, saying “I don’t think kids should ever question their sexuality. I don’t think kids should ever explore their sexuality. I don’t think any of that stuff ever ought to be in our school” — has pleaded guilty to child s*x crimes.
From googling, it appears Utah has reasonably strong anti-SLAPP laws. So not only should he win, but he should be able to get all his court costs paid.
Though it likely doesn't matter to the LDS church; a big legal victory for him, after months tied up in the courts, could just be 'cost of doing business' for them.
I think he's more into court-shopping. I.e. he'll leave the laws in place in case he has need of them, and just file his lawsuits against others in a maximally effective district.
My most important takeaway: “their lives can be fulfilling and wonderful and guilt-free outside the bubble of Mormonism.” It was this fear that I could be wrong and that I might be condemning my kids to hell that motivated me to raise those children in the Mormon Church. It had nothing to do with actual belief. And I have a doctorate degree. The power of culture is stronger than just about any other social construct.
The power of culture, ESPECIALLY when it is used to indoctrinate the innocent and unsophisticated. Seth Andrews has said it many times:
Get 'em while they're YOUNG.
Why is it ever acceptable to present things to children as facts an edcuated adult would almost certainly reject if hearing them for the first time?
Wow. THERE is a topic for a doctoral thesis in Child Psychology if I ever heard one!
“It is immoral to lie to children.” —- Christopher Hitchens
Leave it to Hitch to throw it down to indoctrinated parents!
This hurts me more than it does you.
I can understand his point but you also have to take into consideration that young children may not have the intellectual capability to fully understand a particular topic. And yet, you do not want to lie to them. When they get older and recall your shading of the truth, they may wonder if they can believe anything you say. A good book in my opinion which can be of help is "How to Talk to Kids About Anything: Answering Kids' Hard Questions with Confidence" by Robyn Silverman.
Why you could almost call them "groomers", couldn't you?
Could and HAVE. Funny thing, that!
God Bless Steh Andrews! Very intelligent, while pushing back on the insanity. Great to listen to him talk.
Seth is the genuine article, no BS, not remotely full of himself. A regular guy who figured it out, and did so brilliantly, IMHO. I've met the man and had a chance to get to know him at least a little.
What you see is what you get, period.
The same applies to religions of all sorts, especially high-control religions like the LDS and other flavors of christianity. That's why it often takes years to deconvert. But it's worth it. Once the church loses that final hold on you, you're truly free.
Also, any religion that teaches you to turn away from family or friends who leave isn't a religion, it's a cult.
If you live in a community where the majority subscribes to a faith and take it seriously, stepping away from it may put you in a position where you need to leave not just the religion but the community as well if they decide to ostracize you.
Yes, I get that. But I stand by my statement: If your religion teaches that you can't associate with family or friends who leave the faith, that's a cult.
That bothers me too. Sometimes, though, you have to cut yourself loose from family if they become too toxic.
Oh, definitely! That applies to politics as well as religion. I've had to go no-contact with MAGA family members.
👆👆👆🎯Scientology comes to mind as well.
I went for outside the religious bubble completely.
By the way, my kids DID end up being able to swim through things and are in their thirties and not captive. I suspect that they always knew I wasn't an actual believer.
They knew before you?
I think so
Shining example of just how shaky a foundation the Christian religion across all its sects rests on.
Now you'll be sued by every Christian religion.
Bring it on. :)
My money is on you!
This whole story sounds more than a little like a David versus Goliath redux. Big, powerful, seriously monied Mormon Church against a podcaster who has the unmitigated nerve to throw stones – ACCURATELY – at the monolith. The Church can't go after Dehlin for the stories themselves; they're just people relating their experiences. So, Big Bad LDS has to take cheap shots at poor targets.
Ordinarily, I'd say that I hope Dehlin takes the LDS for money they didn't know they had ... except that they DO know, and that's a shit-ton of scratch! Still, I like the sound of a counter-suit!
I'm curious as to whether or not this will be a jury trial and how exactly they go about selecting that jury? Because I think it's going to be pretty difficult for them to find anyone without an opinion or bias for or against the Mormon Church.
They sued 'IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF UTAH." So they are probably hoping for an all Moron jury.
You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know—mormons.
jury and judge
Can you say, "Change of venue," boys and girls? I knew that you could! 😁
This reeks of the Scientology habit of suing to get their way. I mean, Scientology was able to build an entire religion by using lawsuits to keep folks from looking too deeply at their claims and practices. I’m betting the LDS is hoping to flex its muscles this way as well, thinking they have the money to manipulate the courts just as well, if not better, than Scientology. The timing, I’m sure, has everything to do with the Christian supremacy coursing through the Trump regime. Even if Mormons aren’t considered real Christians, like feeds like.
One more reason to tax the living daylights out of churches and especially megachurches like the LDS and the Roman Catholic Church. They may be churches, but they ACT like corporations ... and as it comes to that:
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑖𝑏𝑒𝑟𝑡𝑦 𝑜𝑓 𝑎 𝑑𝑒𝑚𝑜𝑐𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑦 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑠𝑎𝑓𝑒 𝑖𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑡𝑜𝑙𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑔𝑟𝑜𝑤𝑡ℎ 𝑜𝑓 𝑝𝑟𝑖𝑣𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑝𝑜𝑤𝑒𝑟 𝑡𝑜 𝑎 𝑝𝑜𝑖𝑛𝑡 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑡 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑠 𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑛𝑔𝑒𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑑𝑒𝑚𝑜𝑐𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑐 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑖𝑡𝑠𝑒𝑙𝑓. 𝑇ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑛 𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒, 𝑖𝑠 𝑓𝑎𝑠𝑐𝑖𝑠𝑚 – 𝑜𝑤𝑛𝑒𝑟𝑠ℎ𝑖𝑝 𝑜𝑓 𝑔𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑛𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑏𝑦 𝑎𝑛 𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑑𝑢𝑎𝑙, 𝑏𝑦 𝑎 𝑔𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑝.
-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Solution for Dehlin to avoid lawsuits: stop using the word mormon™ and use "moron" instead.
How about: "That Stupid Church In SLC™?"
https://youtu.be/RaRsv1xNT3A?si=ljerOszaEIdMFzGE
I honestly don't know, so I'm asking: has the LDS Church gone after South Park?
Of course not, they have the money to defend themselves.
Figures. Some graffiti seems in order:
MORMONS ARE PUSSIES!
I figured somebody would beat me to this, so I didn’t try to post it. :D
How about Mor(m)on?
The mormons have had a bug up their collective ass about John Dehlin for years - because his podcast is compelling. But this is a clear First Amendment case, and 'mormon' is common-usage word - which the church itself has stopped using. They just want Dehlin to have to spend money on a vindictive lawsuit. Says a lot about the confidence this church has in itself and its believers, eh? I hope the ACLU and Freedom From Religion Foundation take up this case on John's behalf. NOBODY who listens to 5 minutes of a Mormon Stories episode can seriously claim they didn't know what they were listening to. Also, John Dehlin is nearly as well-known a mormon 'apostate' as Sandra Tanner. Be serious!
Just because people stumble across a 'misleading' website doesn't make a case that the church or its followers have been damaged in any way.
I suspect the lawsuit is the product of a butt-hurt Mormon hierarchy that wants to swat a fly uselessly, and likely because they think Dehlin is an easy target.
He may prove NOT to be so.
I suspect he will prove not to be such an easy target, and the church will end up with a shiner, a massive payout, and more TBMs checking out Mormon Stories.
And variations on the Streisand Effect strike again!
Oh yeah! Mormon Stories just got a huge boost from the mormon church. 🤦♀️😂😂
Mor(m)ons try to use the power of the state to silence critic, claims persecution. Yep, that tracks.
“Unless these acts of Mormon Stories are restrained by this Court, they will continue, and they will continue to cause irreparable injury to Plaintiffs and to the public, for which there is no adequate remedy at law.”
Let me translate.
“Please make him stop his podcast, we are losing followers and we need the government to make people believe our nonsense. Wah wah wah.”
Duh they’re going after him because he’s giving people who are doubting a place to consider their own feelings and thoughts without pressure.
I see the Mormons are following Trump's example by suing critics in an attempt to silence and/or bankrupt them.
When filing a lawsuit, there should present evidence of wrongdoing before discovery and be jailed for perjury if it turns out they lied.
Small wonder that the crusty old farts running the Mormon church want this podcast gone- if there's one thing a con artist hates, it's someone giving their victims a voice.
👆👆👆🎯And they look evil!
Most established Christian sects have viewed the Mormons- or Latter Day Saints - or whatever they call themselves- as not being a true Christian faith. Sort of like evangelicals not considering Catholicism as a true Christian faith. All these factions claiming to be the real thing. I was raised strict southern Baptist and know for a fact they consider themselves to be the true followers of Jesus aka Trump.
It’s hilarious. We have to find moments of joy these days when they start to fight amongst each other. This makes me happiest.
Indeed.
We should encourage more of it!
Every Christian sect believes themselves to be the "One True Sect (tm)" while all the others are No True Scotsman.
Which logically puts the lie to it.
Uhhh...there's enough truth in your statement to hurt but I have run into others who appreciate that Christians are not found only in their particular group. I recall C.S. Lewis who wrote about the difference between the visible and invisible church. The visible church consists of several different faith traditions with their buildings and hierarchies and history. The invisible church refers to the body of believers regardless of their denominational connection. You don't often hear much from the invisible church because they aren't tooting their own horns but genuinely trying to help others.
Do a search engine with the words "child sexual abuse in the mormon church." So many hits.
Wonder if Dehlin has ever done a segment on this. Imagine the outrage by the faith, which was founded by a child molesting conman.
Taking its cues from the RCC, SBC, JWs, etc. A search for child sexual abuse in (insert religion here) will cough up way too many hits.
I think it's becoming an axiom: If it's a church, it has kiddie-diddlers.
That's the part I can't get past, started by a con man in jail, who loved to bone little girls, so thought up a way he could bone as many as possible, and they think he was holy!
Wow...were those 3 old fossils from the Devonian Era ? or ,perhaps Triassic ?
I noticed that as well. :)
Fossils show evidence of evolution. Those three? I don't see any sign they have evolved.
ha ha ha EXCELLENT !
ha ha ha
ha ha ha
ha ha ha
OT a little
Not a drag queen
Not an immigrant
Not a lefty librul
Pro-Trump Ohio pastor Silas Shelton — who in 2023 appeared before the Little Miami Local School District board to rail against LGBTQ+ books in schools, saying “I don’t think kids should ever question their sexuality. I don’t think kids should ever explore their sexuality. I don’t think any of that stuff ever ought to be in our school” — has pleaded guilty to child s*x crimes.
https://www.fox19.com/2026/04/21/ohio-pastor-pleads-guilty-child-sex-crimes-court-documents-say/
Every single day there's another one. Every day.
Funny, when you put it into YouTube – it turns out there are a shit load of them. Must be something in the water in Ohio.
From googling, it appears Utah has reasonably strong anti-SLAPP laws. So not only should he win, but he should be able to get all his court costs paid.
Though it likely doesn't matter to the LDS church; a big legal victory for him, after months tied up in the courts, could just be 'cost of doing business' for them.
Well, THERE is something I didn't know before. "Anti-SLAPP laws." Sounds like the kind of thing that Trump would try to repeal, doesn't it? 😝
I think he's more into court-shopping. I.e. he'll leave the laws in place in case he has need of them, and just file his lawsuits against others in a maximally effective district.
They know they will lose, they are just using the courts to punish him by wasting his time and interrupting his cash flow.
That's where my mind immediately went, too. Obvious SLAPP suit is obvious.
I don’t think trying to kindly “cooperate” with LDS will ever be a good strategy moving forward.
No surprises here. All religions want you too afraid or too broke(n) to be able to criticize them.
By all, I generally mean the big 3