My most important takeaway: “their lives can be fulfilling and wonderful and guilt-free outside the bubble of Mormonism.” It was this fear that I could be wrong and that I might be condemning my kids to hell that motivated me to raise those children in the Mormon Church. It had nothing to do with actual belief. And I have a doctorate degree. The power of culture is stronger than just about any other social construct.
The same applies to religions of all sorts, especially high-control religions like the LDS and other flavors of christianity. That's why it often takes years to deconvert. But it's worth it. Once the church loses that final hold on you, you're truly free.
Also, any religion that teaches you to turn away from family or friends who leave isn't a religion, it's a cult.
This whole story sounds more than a little like a David versus Goliath redux. Big, powerful, seriously monied Mormon Church against a podcaster who has the unmitigated nerve to throw stones – ACCURATELY – at the monolith. The Church can't go after Dehlin for the stories themselves; they're just people relating their experiences. So, Big Bad LDS has to take cheap shots at poor targets.
Ordinarily, I'd say that I hope Dehlin takes the LDS for money they didn't know they had ... except that they DO know, and that's a shit-ton of scratch! Still, I like the sound of a counter-suit!
I'm curious as to whether or not this will be a jury trial and how exactly they go about selecting that jury? Because I think it's going to be pretty difficult for them to find anyone without an opinion or bias for or against the Mormon Church.
This reeks of the Scientology habit of suing to get their way. I mean, Scientology was able to build an entire religion by using lawsuits to keep folks from looking too deeply at their claims and practices. I’m betting the LDS is hoping to flex its muscles this way as well, thinking they have the money to manipulate the courts just as well, if not better, than Scientology. The timing, I’m sure, has everything to do with the Christian supremacy coursing through the Trump regime. Even if Mormons aren’t considered real Christians, like feeds like.
One more reason to tax the living daylights out of churches and especially megachurches like the LDS and the Roman Catholic Church. They may be churches, but they ACT like corporations ... and as it comes to that:
“Unless these acts of Mormon Stories are restrained by this Court, they will continue, and they will continue to cause irreparable injury to Plaintiffs and to the public, for which there is no adequate remedy at law.”
Let me translate.
“Please make him stop his podcast, we are losing followers and we need the government to make people believe our nonsense. Wah wah wah.”
Duh they’re going after him because he’s giving people who are doubting a place to consider their own feelings and thoughts without pressure.
The mormons have had a bug up their collective ass about John Dehlin for years - because his podcast is compelling. But this is a clear First Amendment case, and 'mormon' is common-usage word - which the church itself has stopped using. They just want Dehlin to have to spend money on a vindictive lawsuit. Says a lot about the confidence this church has in itself and its believers, eh? I hope the ACLU and Freedom From Religion Foundation take up this case on John's behalf. NOBODY who listens to 5 minutes of a Mormon Stories episode can seriously claim they didn't know what they were listening to. Also, John Dehlin is nearly as well-known a mormon 'apostate' as Sandra Tanner. Be serious!
Just because people stumble across a 'misleading' website doesn't make a case that the church or its followers have been damaged in any way.
I suspect the lawsuit is the product of a butt-hurt Mormon hierarchy that wants to swat a fly uselessly, and likely because they think Dehlin is an easy target.
I suspect he will prove not to be such an easy target, and the church will end up with a shiner, a massive payout, and more TBMs checking out Mormon Stories.
I get so bloody sick of religious asswipes thinking any criticism of themselves and their religion should be squelched, if not outfight criminalized. Those same people have ruined countless lives and terrorized goddess knows how many children forced to sit in their pews and listen to their Angry God nonsense.
Here's a bulletin: You people are Monsters and you are NOT above criticism. DEAL WITH IT, MOFOS ! ! !
High control? Check. Cultish behavior? Check. Expelled and attack former members? Check. Seems to me that confirmation of the criticism was unnecessary. Nice of them to admit it all.
Small wonder that the crusty old farts running the Mormon church want this podcast gone- if there's one thing a con artist hates, it's someone giving their victims a voice.
Most established Christian sects have viewed the Mormons- or Latter Day Saints - or whatever they call themselves- as not being a true Christian faith. Sort of like evangelicals not considering Catholicism as a true Christian faith. All these factions claiming to be the real thing. I was raised strict southern Baptist and know for a fact they consider themselves to be the true followers of Jesus aka Trump.
While I have no use for organized religion in any form, I list the Mormon church under the heading of ‘Some people will believe anything.” When any institution sets itself up as above the law and above criticism, thin skins are sure to follow. They can’t provide any objective response to the people who have left their church, so they sue to intimidate and stifle their critics.
The Mormon church, or actually the “lite” version originally known as RLDS, was responsible for my turn to atheism. Belief in 2000 year old carpenters seemed pretty safe - who’s to say what happened that long ago?
But golden plates buried in upstate New York in the early 19th century added a whole new dimension of willing suspension of disbelief to the story, and eventually the ludicrousness of the whole situation led me to question all religious belief.
In the end, I just couldn’t get past “no one but me is allowed to see the plates” combined with “an angel came and took them” once they’d been transcribed.
My most important takeaway: “their lives can be fulfilling and wonderful and guilt-free outside the bubble of Mormonism.” It was this fear that I could be wrong and that I might be condemning my kids to hell that motivated me to raise those children in the Mormon Church. It had nothing to do with actual belief. And I have a doctorate degree. The power of culture is stronger than just about any other social construct.
The power of culture, ESPECIALLY when it is used to indoctrinate the innocent and unsophisticated. Seth Andrews has said it many times:
Get 'em while they're YOUNG.
Why is it ever acceptable to present things to children as facts an edcuated adult would almost certainly reject if hearing them for the first time?
Wow. THERE is a topic for a doctoral thesis in Child Psychology if I ever heard one!
“It is immoral to lie to children.” —- Christopher Hitchens
Leave it to Hitch to throw it down to indoctrinated parents!
Why you could almost call them "groomers", couldn't you?
Could and HAVE. Funny thing, that!
The same applies to religions of all sorts, especially high-control religions like the LDS and other flavors of christianity. That's why it often takes years to deconvert. But it's worth it. Once the church loses that final hold on you, you're truly free.
Also, any religion that teaches you to turn away from family or friends who leave isn't a religion, it's a cult.
Shining example of just how shaky a foundation the Christian religion across all its sects rests on.
Now you'll be sued by every Christian religion.
Bring it on. :)
This whole story sounds more than a little like a David versus Goliath redux. Big, powerful, seriously monied Mormon Church against a podcaster who has the unmitigated nerve to throw stones – ACCURATELY – at the monolith. The Church can't go after Dehlin for the stories themselves; they're just people relating their experiences. So, Big Bad LDS has to take cheap shots at poor targets.
Ordinarily, I'd say that I hope Dehlin takes the LDS for money they didn't know they had ... except that they DO know, and that's a shit-ton of scratch! Still, I like the sound of a counter-suit!
I'm curious as to whether or not this will be a jury trial and how exactly they go about selecting that jury? Because I think it's going to be pretty difficult for them to find anyone without an opinion or bias for or against the Mormon Church.
Can you say, "Change of venue," boys and girls? I knew that you could! 😁
They sued 'IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF UTAH." So they are probably hoping for an all Moron jury.
This reeks of the Scientology habit of suing to get their way. I mean, Scientology was able to build an entire religion by using lawsuits to keep folks from looking too deeply at their claims and practices. I’m betting the LDS is hoping to flex its muscles this way as well, thinking they have the money to manipulate the courts just as well, if not better, than Scientology. The timing, I’m sure, has everything to do with the Christian supremacy coursing through the Trump regime. Even if Mormons aren’t considered real Christians, like feeds like.
One more reason to tax the living daylights out of churches and especially megachurches like the LDS and the Roman Catholic Church. They may be churches, but they ACT like corporations ... and as it comes to that:
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑖𝑏𝑒𝑟𝑡𝑦 𝑜𝑓 𝑎 𝑑𝑒𝑚𝑜𝑐𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑦 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑠𝑎𝑓𝑒 𝑖𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑡𝑜𝑙𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑔𝑟𝑜𝑤𝑡ℎ 𝑜𝑓 𝑝𝑟𝑖𝑣𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑝𝑜𝑤𝑒𝑟 𝑡𝑜 𝑎 𝑝𝑜𝑖𝑛𝑡 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑡 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑠 𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑛𝑔𝑒𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑑𝑒𝑚𝑜𝑐𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑐 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑖𝑡𝑠𝑒𝑙𝑓. 𝑇ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑛 𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒, 𝑖𝑠 𝑓𝑎𝑠𝑐𝑖𝑠𝑚 – 𝑜𝑤𝑛𝑒𝑟𝑠ℎ𝑖𝑝 𝑜𝑓 𝑔𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑛𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑏𝑦 𝑎𝑛 𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑑𝑢𝑎𝑙, 𝑏𝑦 𝑎 𝑔𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑝.
-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Solution for Dehlin to avoid lawsuits: stop using the word mormon™ and use "moron" instead.
How about: "That Stupid Church In SLC™?"
https://youtu.be/RaRsv1xNT3A?si=ljerOszaEIdMFzGE
I honestly don't know, so I'm asking: has the LDS Church gone after South Park?
Of course not, they have the money to defend themselves.
I figured somebody would beat me to this, so I didn’t try to post it. :D
How about Mor(m)on?
“Unless these acts of Mormon Stories are restrained by this Court, they will continue, and they will continue to cause irreparable injury to Plaintiffs and to the public, for which there is no adequate remedy at law.”
Let me translate.
“Please make him stop his podcast, we are losing followers and we need the government to make people believe our nonsense. Wah wah wah.”
Duh they’re going after him because he’s giving people who are doubting a place to consider their own feelings and thoughts without pressure.
The mormons have had a bug up their collective ass about John Dehlin for years - because his podcast is compelling. But this is a clear First Amendment case, and 'mormon' is common-usage word - which the church itself has stopped using. They just want Dehlin to have to spend money on a vindictive lawsuit. Says a lot about the confidence this church has in itself and its believers, eh? I hope the ACLU and Freedom From Religion Foundation take up this case on John's behalf. NOBODY who listens to 5 minutes of a Mormon Stories episode can seriously claim they didn't know what they were listening to. Also, John Dehlin is nearly as well-known a mormon 'apostate' as Sandra Tanner. Be serious!
Just because people stumble across a 'misleading' website doesn't make a case that the church or its followers have been damaged in any way.
I suspect the lawsuit is the product of a butt-hurt Mormon hierarchy that wants to swat a fly uselessly, and likely because they think Dehlin is an easy target.
He may prove NOT to be so.
I suspect he will prove not to be such an easy target, and the church will end up with a shiner, a massive payout, and more TBMs checking out Mormon Stories.
And variations on the Streisand Effect strike again!
Oh yeah! Mormon Stories just got a huge boost from the mormon church. 🤦♀️😂😂
Do a search engine with the words "child sexual abuse in the mormon church." So many hits.
Wonder if Dehlin has ever done a segment on this. Imagine the outrage by the faith, which was founded by a child molesting conman.
Taking its cues from the RCC, SBC, JWs, etc. A search for child sexual abuse in (insert religion here) will cough up way too many hits.
I think it's becoming an axiom: If it's a church, it has kiddie-diddlers.
I get so bloody sick of religious asswipes thinking any criticism of themselves and their religion should be squelched, if not outfight criminalized. Those same people have ruined countless lives and terrorized goddess knows how many children forced to sit in their pews and listen to their Angry God nonsense.
Here's a bulletin: You people are Monsters and you are NOT above criticism. DEAL WITH IT, MOFOS ! ! !
𝐵𝑦 𝑝𝑖𝑐𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑓𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡, 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑀𝑜𝑟𝑚𝑜𝑛 𝐶ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ 𝑖𝑠 𝑜𝑛𝑙𝑦 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑓𝑖𝑟𝑚𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑖𝑠𝑚𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦’𝑟𝑒 𝑠𝑜 𝑑𝑒𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑢𝑝𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠.
High control? Check. Cultish behavior? Check. Expelled and attack former members? Check. Seems to me that confirmation of the criticism was unnecessary. Nice of them to admit it all.
Mor(m)ons try to use the power of the state to silence critic, claims persecution. Yep, that tracks.
Small wonder that the crusty old farts running the Mormon church want this podcast gone- if there's one thing a con artist hates, it's someone giving their victims a voice.
I don’t think trying to kindly “cooperate” with LDS will ever be a good strategy moving forward.
No surprises here. All religions want you too afraid or too broke(n) to be able to criticize them.
By all, I generally mean the big 3
Most established Christian sects have viewed the Mormons- or Latter Day Saints - or whatever they call themselves- as not being a true Christian faith. Sort of like evangelicals not considering Catholicism as a true Christian faith. All these factions claiming to be the real thing. I was raised strict southern Baptist and know for a fact they consider themselves to be the true followers of Jesus aka Trump.
It’s hilarious. We have to find moments of joy these days when they start to fight amongst each other. This makes me happiest.
Indeed.
Every Christian sect believes themselves to be the "One True Sect (tm)" while all the others are No True Scotsman.
While I have no use for organized religion in any form, I list the Mormon church under the heading of ‘Some people will believe anything.” When any institution sets itself up as above the law and above criticism, thin skins are sure to follow. They can’t provide any objective response to the people who have left their church, so they sue to intimidate and stifle their critics.
The Mormon church, or actually the “lite” version originally known as RLDS, was responsible for my turn to atheism. Belief in 2000 year old carpenters seemed pretty safe - who’s to say what happened that long ago?
But golden plates buried in upstate New York in the early 19th century added a whole new dimension of willing suspension of disbelief to the story, and eventually the ludicrousness of the whole situation led me to question all religious belief.
Hold on, you're telling me you weren't swayed by stories of bronze age Jews fighting chariot battles against black people in mesoamerica? /s
In the end, I just couldn’t get past “no one but me is allowed to see the plates” combined with “an angel came and took them” once they’d been transcribed.
Joseph Smith was called a prophet dum dum dum dum dum... https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0705893/