The world has always had people like him, but what fills me with despair is knowing there are people who believe and follow those people. There never an idea so absurd there would not be people who believed it, and there has never been a leader so corrupt and incompetent there would not be people who willingly followed. I do not like the human race's chances of long-term survival.
Agreed, it’s not looking great out there. Perhaps our oversized brains made us believe we are separate from nature and also aid in the denial of our most basic instincts? I also blame Abrahamic religions (mostly) for that. It isn’t very “intelligent” of us to endlessly extract and exploit the earth until there’s nothing left and we self destruct. Another failed mutation? 🤣
Last time I looked (which has been a while, though i can imagine little has changed), the words "stewards" and "stewardship" are even in the Old Testament seemingly hundreds of times.
I was talking to a local "Christian" jeweler in this tiny Trump town I live near in rural SC. He was pissed because environmental regulations were restricting gold mining in many African nations. (Gold mining is one of the most destructive of mining practices.)
This non-Christian had to remind that passionate(ly stupid and greedy) Christian of what the Bible says. He didn't care for it, but all I cared about was MY responsibility...to our home.
Absolutely agreed. I often think about “stewardship” (although not in the biblical sense) and I actually was just thinking about it when I was writing before. This past Spring, my husband and I were at Saguaro National Park and we were the only two people in the visitor center watching a film about the park. The entire film was a Native American talking about how we are “stewards” of the land and that the saguaros are our relatives/ancestors. When the film ended and a curtain opened to reveal the park, we both had tears in our eyes 😅.
This past week we attending NO KINGS in front of our SC county courthouse.
And in walking around in front of this historic old building, it was impossible NOT to see metal posts, no longer displaying information on historical plaques, or even the plaques themselves. Historical information that we, as Americans, are no longer entitled to have....
Christianity ever has been a death cult. You have to die to go 'home to Jesus'. It has many benign iterations but some worse - think the RCC obsession of 'suffering is good for the soul'. And then there are the worst ones - the sects which pray over sick children rather than take them to a doctor. It pretty much is a collective mental illness.
Notice that when the Pope had his recent medical troubles that he didn't bother with prayer alone. Oh no, it was off to the hospital to be treated by trained medical professionals.
Pretty sure the Bible never said to kill yourself to get to heaven quicker. Pretty sure one of the temptations of Jesus was to do something deliberately harmful to yourself because God would save you.
But there are no rules in religion. It's a wild west wasteland full of con artists, grifters, psychotics, liars, authoritarians, and a few decent folk and there is no governing authority that can put a stop to the assholes. Even the most the Pope can do is say "These guys aren't a part of us anymore and God will send them to Hell" which I'm sure would cause the loonies to shake in their boots.
It's up to secular authorities to shut this shit down, but too many of them are timid when it comes to religious organizations committing crimes until the worst happens.
So there will be more cults. More people losing money. Some people losing their lives.
For one thing, how many times have we heard, "When your time comes, Jesus will decide to take you." So, if I choose to throw myself in front of a train, and it's NOT my time (per Jesus), I'll just BOUNCE off the train?! COOL!!!
And frankly, I've yet to know of anyone who ISN'T contributing to their own death: drinking, sedentary lifestyle, stress, too little sleep, etc. I've yet to know of anyone NOT contributing actively toward their own end. Will they/we ALL end up in hell?
"These cult leaders convinced parents to watch their own children starve to death because they believed it would grant them direct access to Jesus."
And exactly how is that different from Thump!?
"MAGA hates the things they hate more than they love the things they love."
So MAGA children and elderly also died (and will die) horribly, and because their cult leader essentially told them that it was necessary for loved ones to die in order to "own the libs".
This is a lot like Stupid Idiot manipulating his followers to believe all his lies he tells about COVID-19 being a "hoax," leading them to come down with the so-falsely called "hoax" that took all their lives. They were foolishly lead to believe that horse paste and bleach would "cure" them of the so-falsely called "hoax" if they ever came down with COVID-19. They were also encouraged to attend events that involved a very large crowd, making the virus super easy to spread.
The sad fact is that all these people believed everything Stupid idiot said about the virus and ended up paying for their ignorance and their gullibility with their lives, with so many going down to their graves believing the lies Stupid idiot said about the COVID-19 virus.
I have to hope that the unused (and virtually unmentioned) Obama Pandemic Plan will be ready to protect a more intelligent, deserving nation next time.
I confess, I'm getting a major case of what we in the deep south call, "The Big Head".
How can I not, knowing I'm more intelligent, discerning, reasonable, caring and logical than EVERY "Never-Trumper" on Earth. (They each voted for Trump at least once. I voted for Trump's opponent at all three opportunities, and only hope I never have another opportunity to vote against him.) I guess I'm not very good at "pretending", as Trump supporters are being asked to do, and clearly display their "pretending proficiency" every time they pass a gas pump.
Not only has it happened here, it is still happening here. How many JWs died because their leadership convinced them that blood transfusions are evil? How many children have died due to medical neglect because their parents were told that all they had to do was pray? How many teens have committed suicide because their parents could not accept a gay child?
This is apparently what happens when some messianic hotshot with a screwed up idea comes into contact with a lot of people who are vulnerable to his particular brand of snake oil. In THIS case, though, the consequences aren't just unfortunate. They are TRAGIC. Even worse, all but one of the victims were CHILDREN.
Hitchens said it and he wasn't wrong: Religion Poisons EVERYTHING.
So, it’s like if I were Pope, and I told good Catholics that they should go out and murder Muslims so that they could regain the holy landed made Jesus come again, would that be an example of what hemant is talking about? Or maybe, if I were an imam, and I told kids to strap suicide guests on and go blow up a public market, might be considered God‘s will? Or maybe, I could be a priest of qsay, Quetzalcoatl, and convinced people to sacrifice themselves so that the corn will grow?
I won't be surprised if news came out that Dumb Idiot Ken Ham is arrested and charged with crimes very similar to the ones committed by Mackenzie, Jones, Trump, etc. Ham is a cult leader who, like other creationists, force-feeds his young earth fantasies into the minds of the gullible who foolishly believes every word of it while building what I believe to be a penal town rather than an theme park. Case in point: Ham manipulating the run-down Williamstown, KY to help him build a fire station on his property rather than in the city.
I’ve always viewed religious fasting as a symptom of a "religious neurosis" that suppresses natural human instincts and promotes self-denial. It’s almost always harmful (and stupid?) and this is a very extreme and saddening case of it. It’s of course a piece of a much the larger religious indoctrination problem with people who are taught not to think for themselves.
"Paul Mackenzie, a Kenyan cult leader who told members they would meet Jesus after starving themselves to death, was found guilty of murdering 191 people."
If I may indulge in my darker thoughts for a moment...
If it weren't for the children, and other "innocents (i.e. the not-true-believers)" harmed (this of course includes harmful laws and such), I would say let them have their cake.
It's like the sentiment regarding the culling of the stupid by removing warning labels. Would they eventually reach an extinction state? Likely not, as I imagine the leaders seldom practice what they preach. Or maybe it would more closely follow self-regulation of population; a perpetual process of believers build up, cult leaders emerge, everyone offs themselves and the cycle begins anew.
This is, of course, not to be callous towards the loss of life, and ignores the possible redemption of those who might at some point come to their senses. It's just... frustrating... that people fall for these charlatans to the result of their own undoing and, worse, the harm they inflict on those with no protection.
Sure, sure, culling of the stupid but you are right that the leaders rarely practice what they preach. The question is why? Usually the answer is money. This makes people like this the most depraved type of con-man.
Remember, christians claim you can't have morality without god. 191 people. SMFH.
Oh, btw, where the fuck was 'god' while his representative on earth was murdering people?
Right... When they do terrible things it's because they are on God's side or whatever.
"God, thank you for saving my family from the tornado!"
"Thanks for destroying every other trailer in the park, killing everyone EXCEPT my family!"
Gawd is GREAT! (Just like Tony Tiger!)
https://i0.wp.com/theblogimnotwriting.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/bBettybowers.jpg?resize=236%2C236&ssl=1
The world has always had people like him, but what fills me with despair is knowing there are people who believe and follow those people. There never an idea so absurd there would not be people who believed it, and there has never been a leader so corrupt and incompetent there would not be people who willingly followed. I do not like the human race's chances of long-term survival.
Agreed, it’s not looking great out there. Perhaps our oversized brains made us believe we are separate from nature and also aid in the denial of our most basic instincts? I also blame Abrahamic religions (mostly) for that. It isn’t very “intelligent” of us to endlessly extract and exploit the earth until there’s nothing left and we self destruct. Another failed mutation? 🤣
I think humans have seen themselves as disconnected from nature for a very long time. To the point it's baked into our culture.
Yes, it’s in our nature as a species (cats are much better people), but I do think certain turn of events (religions created) accelerated the process.
Linda,
Last time I looked (which has been a while, though i can imagine little has changed), the words "stewards" and "stewardship" are even in the Old Testament seemingly hundreds of times.
I was talking to a local "Christian" jeweler in this tiny Trump town I live near in rural SC. He was pissed because environmental regulations were restricting gold mining in many African nations. (Gold mining is one of the most destructive of mining practices.)
This non-Christian had to remind that passionate(ly stupid and greedy) Christian of what the Bible says. He didn't care for it, but all I cared about was MY responsibility...to our home.
Just like God says....
Absolutely agreed. I often think about “stewardship” (although not in the biblical sense) and I actually was just thinking about it when I was writing before. This past Spring, my husband and I were at Saguaro National Park and we were the only two people in the visitor center watching a film about the park. The entire film was a Native American talking about how we are “stewards” of the land and that the saguaros are our relatives/ancestors. When the film ended and a curtain opened to reveal the park, we both had tears in our eyes 😅.
This past week we attending NO KINGS in front of our SC county courthouse.
And in walking around in front of this historic old building, it was impossible NOT to see metal posts, no longer displaying information on historical plaques, or even the plaques themselves. Historical information that we, as Americans, are no longer entitled to have....
𝑀𝑎𝑐𝑘𝑒𝑛𝑧𝑖𝑒, 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑣𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑎𝑙𝑜𝑛𝑔 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 28 𝑎𝑠𝑠𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑠, 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 ℎ𝑒 𝑑𝑖𝑑 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑐𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑣𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑚𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑟𝑣𝑒, 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑠𝑒𝑑 𝑏𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑡 𝑖𝑛 𝑀𝑜𝑚𝑏𝑎𝑠𝑎, 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑑𝑖𝑐𝑡 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑛𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑐𝑒𝑑 𝑜𝑛 𝑀𝑜𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑦.
Jim Jones didn't "force" his victims to drink the Flavor-aid either, but here we are. Indoctrination is one hell of a drug.
Christianity ever has been a death cult. You have to die to go 'home to Jesus'. It has many benign iterations but some worse - think the RCC obsession of 'suffering is good for the soul'. And then there are the worst ones - the sects which pray over sick children rather than take them to a doctor. It pretty much is a collective mental illness.
Notice that when the Pope had his recent medical troubles that he didn't bother with prayer alone. Oh no, it was off to the hospital to be treated by trained medical professionals.
Some "faith."
And I'll just bet that after they whacked open his chest, he got useful doses of pain meds - not the rare dose of aspirin - á la Mother Teresa.
This Pope is a Catholic in Name Only. Damn heretic Pope. Didn't you know?/s
Cemeteries are full of bodies of evidence that prayers don't work.
One has to wonder how many children were raped in addition to being murdered by this killer with Jesus' name on his lips?
Too many. If it was only one, it was too many.
Pretty sure the Bible never said to kill yourself to get to heaven quicker. Pretty sure one of the temptations of Jesus was to do something deliberately harmful to yourself because God would save you.
But there are no rules in religion. It's a wild west wasteland full of con artists, grifters, psychotics, liars, authoritarians, and a few decent folk and there is no governing authority that can put a stop to the assholes. Even the most the Pope can do is say "These guys aren't a part of us anymore and God will send them to Hell" which I'm sure would cause the loonies to shake in their boots.
It's up to secular authorities to shut this shit down, but too many of them are timid when it comes to religious organizations committing crimes until the worst happens.
So there will be more cults. More people losing money. Some people losing their lives.
That whole "suicide" prohibition is suspect.
For one thing, how many times have we heard, "When your time comes, Jesus will decide to take you." So, if I choose to throw myself in front of a train, and it's NOT my time (per Jesus), I'll just BOUNCE off the train?! COOL!!!
And frankly, I've yet to know of anyone who ISN'T contributing to their own death: drinking, sedentary lifestyle, stress, too little sleep, etc. I've yet to know of anyone NOT contributing actively toward their own end. Will they/we ALL end up in hell?
"These cult leaders convinced parents to watch their own children starve to death because they believed it would grant them direct access to Jesus."
And exactly how is that different from Thump!?
"MAGA hates the things they hate more than they love the things they love."
So MAGA children and elderly also died (and will die) horribly, and because their cult leader essentially told them that it was necessary for loved ones to die in order to "own the libs".
This is a lot like Stupid Idiot manipulating his followers to believe all his lies he tells about COVID-19 being a "hoax," leading them to come down with the so-falsely called "hoax" that took all their lives. They were foolishly lead to believe that horse paste and bleach would "cure" them of the so-falsely called "hoax" if they ever came down with COVID-19. They were also encouraged to attend events that involved a very large crowd, making the virus super easy to spread.
The sad fact is that all these people believed everything Stupid idiot said about the virus and ended up paying for their ignorance and their gullibility with their lives, with so many going down to their graves believing the lies Stupid idiot said about the COVID-19 virus.
I have to hope that the unused (and virtually unmentioned) Obama Pandemic Plan will be ready to protect a more intelligent, deserving nation next time.
It's not hard to do better than "bleach".....
OwossoHarpist,
I confess, I'm getting a major case of what we in the deep south call, "The Big Head".
How can I not, knowing I'm more intelligent, discerning, reasonable, caring and logical than EVERY "Never-Trumper" on Earth. (They each voted for Trump at least once. I voted for Trump's opponent at all three opportunities, and only hope I never have another opportunity to vote against him.) I guess I'm not very good at "pretending", as Trump supporters are being asked to do, and clearly display their "pretending proficiency" every time they pass a gas pump.
[𝑀]𝑦 𝑓𝑒𝑎𝑟 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑎 𝑙𝑜𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑤𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑡𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑠𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑦 𝑙𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑠𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑠 𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒.
Not only has it happened here, it is still happening here. How many JWs died because their leadership convinced them that blood transfusions are evil? How many children have died due to medical neglect because their parents were told that all they had to do was pray? How many teens have committed suicide because their parents could not accept a gay child?
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/
https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/
This is apparently what happens when some messianic hotshot with a screwed up idea comes into contact with a lot of people who are vulnerable to his particular brand of snake oil. In THIS case, though, the consequences aren't just unfortunate. They are TRAGIC. Even worse, all but one of the victims were CHILDREN.
Hitchens said it and he wasn't wrong: Religion Poisons EVERYTHING.
So, it’s like if I were Pope, and I told good Catholics that they should go out and murder Muslims so that they could regain the holy landed made Jesus come again, would that be an example of what hemant is talking about? Or maybe, if I were an imam, and I told kids to strap suicide guests on and go blow up a public market, might be considered God‘s will? Or maybe, I could be a priest of qsay, Quetzalcoatl, and convinced people to sacrifice themselves so that the corn will grow?
I could see a lot of possibilities here.
I won't be surprised if news came out that Dumb Idiot Ken Ham is arrested and charged with crimes very similar to the ones committed by Mackenzie, Jones, Trump, etc. Ham is a cult leader who, like other creationists, force-feeds his young earth fantasies into the minds of the gullible who foolishly believes every word of it while building what I believe to be a penal town rather than an theme park. Case in point: Ham manipulating the run-down Williamstown, KY to help him build a fire station on his property rather than in the city.
URL for reference: https://pandasthumb.org/archives/2026/09/williamstown-secret-deal.html
How many covid deaths resulted from Hambone et al going anti-vax and pro-superspreader events?
Over a million.
Just make sure that RFKJr is right behind him, going into the housgow.
I’ve always viewed religious fasting as a symptom of a "religious neurosis" that suppresses natural human instincts and promotes self-denial. It’s almost always harmful (and stupid?) and this is a very extreme and saddening case of it. It’s of course a piece of a much the larger religious indoctrination problem with people who are taught not to think for themselves.
Radical Islam is definitely a thing...but so is radical Christianity. Case in point...
"Paul Mackenzie, a Kenyan cult leader who told members they would meet Jesus after starving themselves to death, was found guilty of murdering 191 people."
Good. Do Elno Skum next. And Bobby Brainworm too.
If I may indulge in my darker thoughts for a moment...
If it weren't for the children, and other "innocents (i.e. the not-true-believers)" harmed (this of course includes harmful laws and such), I would say let them have their cake.
It's like the sentiment regarding the culling of the stupid by removing warning labels. Would they eventually reach an extinction state? Likely not, as I imagine the leaders seldom practice what they preach. Or maybe it would more closely follow self-regulation of population; a perpetual process of believers build up, cult leaders emerge, everyone offs themselves and the cycle begins anew.
This is, of course, not to be callous towards the loss of life, and ignores the possible redemption of those who might at some point come to their senses. It's just... frustrating... that people fall for these charlatans to the result of their own undoing and, worse, the harm they inflict on those with no protection.
Sure, sure, culling of the stupid but you are right that the leaders rarely practice what they preach. The question is why? Usually the answer is money. This makes people like this the most depraved type of con-man.
Well, with life imprisonment, at least there will be some justice coming out of this.