The FFRF has abandoned science? Nope. First of all, they aren't a scientific organization. They are about maintaining the wall of separation between church and state by reminding people that it is impossible to have freedom of religion without having freedom from religion. Second, The science is pretty clear about the existence of transgender people. Sure, there are aspects of policy that can be debated. The only thing I can think that might need more data is at what point in their transition should a transgender athlete be assigned to the men's or women's category for competition. The IOC and other organizations have guidelines that they revisit periodically to ensure that trans women are competing on a level playing field (because the transphobe's complaints seem to be 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 rooted in the lie that trans people are all men pretending to be women to take advantage of women). Based on what data I know about, I am willing to go with the IOC et al.
Coyne is a prime example of the fact, so misunderstood by the religious, that atheism is just the answer to one question: Do you believe there is a god of any kind? No.
ATTENTION TRANSPHOBIC TROLLS: I will not engage. I will report. I suggest you fuck right off before the banhammer falls.
The example I like to point to when the sports issue comes up anymore 𝘪𝘴 the Olympics. The IOC has allowed out trans athletes to compete since 2004, and in all the time since, there's been exactly one MtF trans Olympian- Laurel Hubbard, of New Zealand, competing in women's weightlifting- and she didn't take home any medals. If the right-wing narrative about trans women in sports held any water, then trans women should be 𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳-represented at the highest levels of competition, but instead... one athlete out of tens of thousands across two whole decades, and zero medals (and you'll note that her story did 𝘯𝘰𝘵 receive any attention from right-wing media, because a trans woman 𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘨 a competition doesn't fit their narrative).
The handful of media blowups about trans athletes don't fare any better under closer scrutiny. They all either tragically misrepresent the results of the contest that caused the drama, or the athlete at the center of it all turns out to not even be trans.
Of course you like to point to the Olympics. It’s a cherry-picked category that supports your point of view. Next time try not limiting your data set to one, as though that’s everything there is to talk about. You believe in the lived experience of all men and women, so listen to the lower level (but still highly competitive) high school and college athletes who no longer qualify for scholarships or get injured because a trans woman who trained and competed as a man, was middle of the road in their sport, suddenly switches sides and in less than a year is now competing against women and blowing away the competition. Trans women are not women. They are men, trying to be women.
You shouldn't be here because you have too much reading to catch up on; I know you didn't get through all of that in three little hours. Run along, now.
I read through both those posts and they are blanket pro-trans in the same way certain Conservative voices are blanket anti-trans. They offer their assumptive voice as the only reason they say what they say. Your article by Julia says “Straight people have long expressed baseless fears…” What data shows they are baseless fears? Just because Julia says they’re baseless?
In a Sun Valley Wisconsin high school, an 18 year old senior trans woman (non-transitioned biological male) joined a group of 14 year old freshman girls who were showering chlorine off their swimsuits, walked into the shower and said “I’m trans” and proceeded to fully undress and exposed his male genitalia to them. This violates Title IX protections of girls and women.
I also find it interesting that your two articles presumably contradict each other, where Ms. Serano says “…the fact that no trans woman has ever dominated in any women’s sports league or category shows that we are not “taking over” or “destroying” women’s sports.” And yet your other article very pointedly talks about how “Lia Thomas won a national swimming championship in her senior year.” And fails to point out the data showing Lia was ranked 65th on the men’s team for the 500-freestyle, but ranked 1st among women.
And both authors also make unfounded claims about the idea that trans-athlete bans are only being used as a wedge to set a precedent that will allow trans women to be considered women in ALL aspects of their lives, and not just sports. But in all my reading on the subject, I have only seen it being used in three areas - sports, healthcare (because trans women don’t need Pap smears, or hysterectomies, or checked for cervical cancer), and pre-transition exposure in locker rooms and bathrooms. So your “supporting evidence” is not so much evidence as it is hollow claims and baseless fears based on pro-trans propaganda.
Thank you, Joe! A well-reasoned, well-stated post. Who knew we'd have to explain to an alleged life-long atheist like Coyne that atheism isn't an ideology, a quasi-religion, or a worldview. It's just the single answer to a singular question: Does god exist?
Or as I would rather say “Does god exist outside of your belief?” I don’t deny another person’s right to believe in a delusion, but strenuously object to the use of the state to impose religiously derived strictures on civil society. That’s the 1st amendment free exercise and establishment clause in a nutshell.
Yes to all of this, let those who study sports medicine, and athletic development be the judges of sports, not red-hatted dipshits waving their religion around like their penis in our faces.,
Transphobic troll here. I'll have you know it's all about the gametes. When someone entered the women's bathroom, my transvestigtor radar went off and I was able to detect her gametes because she looked too manish.
Like their fundamentalist counterparts, these anti-trans members of the free-thought community have a strong tendency to dehumanize those with whom they disagree. The trans community is tiny, and the threat they pose is mostly in the heads of the people opposing them. In spite of the lack of a genuine threat, our culture is driven to try and hammer people into the approved molds, whether they fit or not.
You touch on a very important point, oraxx. Why decide to single out the transgender community, which as you say, is a small percentage of the overall population. More importantly, WHO painted the target on the transgender community in the first place? The Red Hat Brigade of right-wing, religious fundamentalists who also thew in drag queens, and anyone daring to be American while gay.
People who support the transgender community do so out of the simple principle that everyone has the right to live and work in safety and with respect. It's not a 'religious' point of view, but a simple matter of basic human decency and respect.
I'm a little surprised that Jerry doesn't extend his logic. If he did, he'd be as homophobic as he is transphobic, since men are OBVIOUSLY meant to bond with women and vice versa, and homosexuality would be a clear aberration to him.
Good observation, though going after the gay / lesbian community would be a massive mistake on Jerry's part. They're ORGANIZED and not likely to just take Jerry's crap.
Nasty creatures that they are, pretending they speak for all cis-women.
I mean the whole feminism gig (at least in the original concept) was about equality. They just want to defecate on the next people who want rights, they want superiority.
Gender theology? LOL Christians have a long history of defining those with whom they disagree in terms that suit their biases. I suspect your silly comment is just more of it.
Gender dysphoria is not as protected in the laws as the rest of the LGBTQI+ community. Wait for Obergefell to be overturned, and maga states to criminalise non cishet relationships to see the three compañeros don a virtual red hat and howl with them.
[sigh] And Jerry is off to the races again, talking about something about which he knows NOTHING. No, Jerry, gender is NOT binary. Hell, neither is SEX, particularly when one considers sexual variations outside of XX and XY, never mind the occasional occurrence of human hermaphroditism. But as it comes to gender, all Jerry would have to do is open his eyes and LOOK ... and maybe open his ears and LISTEN, particularly to people whose physiologies and self-apprehensions fail to match.
But he won't, nor will Dawkins, and it's their loss.
There are a couple of very good documentaries available about people who are intersex. They talk about how they found out, how their parents reacted, how they had to sort through deciding how to live their lives and how to present themselves to the world. Ole Jerry could learn a thing or two about basic humanity from listening to their stories.
His parents are Jewish. Was he raised secular, liberal, orthodox, other ? Like dawkins, he may think he left religion behind him , but that doesn't mean religious way of thinking didn't imprint on him. Humans don't grew up in a cultural vacuum.
Will Ferrell's Harper. What a wonderful (and sad) documentary. It reveals the true pain and despair that can be a part of the trans experience. While I have always felt compassion toward them, I now also feel empathy. Who hasn't experienced pain and despair at some point in their life, after all? I found myself wanting to hug Harper and tell her that things are going to be okay. Unfortunately, they probably won't be, at least not for now.
They keep using “woke” as an insult but don’t realize the people they use it against aren’t insulted by it and it only backfires on them by painting them as heartless assholes. “Oh no! I’m compassionate, caring, empathetic, and kind to other people! How dare I.”
FFRF and the other groups they’re claiming are abandoning science aren’t abandoning science, because the backs up transgender people, but these fucks are abandoning humanity, empathy, and science - they are referring to old conclusions drawn from data that was intrinsically lacking, biased “studies” that work from a conclusion to find data, and refuse to consider new evidence as it comes available. But, most importantly, they’ve ignored the one fact that outweighs any other evidence or ideology or butthurt feelings, transgender people are people. Full stop. They deserve empathy. They deserve compassion. They deserve respect as human beings. And the three stooges here refuse to acknowledge transgender people’s humanity. So I don’t have sympathy for their loss of respect as authorities, access to platforms they thought they were owed, or any other perceived privilege they lost. Boo hoo. No one is trying to murder them for being who they are. But transgender people are facing violence from all fronts.
When someone brings dog shit to the pot luck, there’s no debate about where it should be placed, it belongs in the trash, outside. Bigotry is dog shit. It doesn’t deserve a place at the table.
How is inspecting little girls’ genitalia providing them with safety, dignity, and boundaries? How is attacking women in the restroom, calling them males, threatening their lives providing them with safety, dignity, and boundaries? How is accusing women and girls of trying to molest others providing safety, dignity, and boundaries? All I have seen is transphobes being violent, violent toward transgender people who have done nothing wrong, to women who don’t fit the feminine expectations of the transphobes, and to anyone who might not agree with the bigotry you are espousing. None of the actions taken by transphobes, especially the ones making legislation, has protected a single woman or girl from being harmed. In fact, it has caused women and girls to be much less safe. I’ve been a witness to the violence, it was aimed at a cis woman and it was totally uncalled for. I have never seen a transgender person be a threat to anyone, nor have I seen the lady with a short haircut, or large jawline, or just a preference for flannel harm anyone. The question isn’t if I hate women, it’s why do you. Why do you want to make them less safe? Why are you attacking me, a woman, for not fearing a group of people who have never ever been a threat to me?
Reality is, we are much more vulnerable around cis men and cis men will do nothing about it. They cry about false accusations, ruined lives, and women’s accountability for their own victimization, but never about the fact that 90% of violent crime and rape are perpetrated by cis men. Transphobes are the loudest defenders of cis male violence/rapes. The transphobe bandwagon is a tool they’re using to deflect from their own crimes, to circle the wagons around the cis men who are predators, the clergy who oldest children, the powerful who use their power to rape women, the swimmers who go to parties to drug and rape innocent women behind dumpsters. Are you upset about those men, or just that there might be a transgender woman trying to take a piss in a public restroom? That’s rhetorical, I know the answer,you aren’t here commenting on those articles, just the ones that defend transgender people.
Way to not address what was being discussed and making up bullshit. No one says they’re transmogrifying or muttering incantations. Grow up. Only a bigot would keep ignoring facts to hold tight to his violent tendencies. When are you going to get upset about cis men attacking women? You only care about protecting women when it gives you a way to hurt transgender people.
Transphobia is a treatable mental illness. Coyne and pals should seek the services of licensed mental health care professionals, they needn't continue to suffer.
Jerry has become unable to accept new information and adjust his opinion. He is no different than MAGA. He, and these other old men, have lost the ability to think critically, and it's sad. I doubt he has done any actual research to find out what transgender people go through just to be themselves, and instead believes that a man throws on a dress and goes into the ladies room for illicit purposes, because he can't imagine anything else. Such a shame.
It's often the case with scientists. They manage to pioneer new areas and stake their flag on a new hill. Then they rest on their laurels and get passed by, but refuse to budge.
I've heard that science advances one death at a time.
The science isn't limited to the gametes, nor is it limited to genetics. It's way more complex than assholes like Coyne and Dawkins are presenting to you. What they are doing is manipulating you. I'm sure you don't like that.
The problem with relying on gametes, is when a woman who looks too man-ish walks into the women's restroom, the man who follows her in isn't checking her gametes when he drags her out of there.
All animals? Not quite. Just the ones you are aware of. There's a whole wonderful world out there. Be curious, read more than just what's presented to you.
Gametes aren't the sole determinant of sex. During development in the womb, the gonad streaks develop either into testes or ovaries. In some people who have Differences in Sexual Development (DSD). A woman with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS) has XY chromosomes, but her body doesn't react to testosterone. As a result, such a woman will not develop testes, nor will the gonad streaks develop into ovaries. She will look like a girl at birth and be assigned based on her appearance alone. No one checks the gametes, except when testes are seen.
What is her sex if she has neither testes nor ovaries?
A person with Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome can have a mix of sexual characteristics from both sexes. What is that person's gender?
I recommend reading Intersex and Identity. It's both informative and tragic.
And, again, this has nothing to do with religion nor theology. You insult both when you refer to gender that way.
Good point Jennifer. We may be Woke (I hope we are!) But he is in a fundamentalist mindset. Since he disagrees, it means FFRF is too far to the left. EGO big enough guys? That sounds far more MAGA than intellectual to me.
“…and guilty of caving to “hysterical squeals from predictable quarters” (Dawkins). “
Of course the flaming misogynist would use this language. When you don’t consider half the population as people, you can write off their very real concerns as “hysterical squeals.”
Not that I’m saying only women support trans rights or all women support trans rights, what I’m saying is that he puts transgender people and the left (or anyone that supports women’s rights) into a category that he can write off as he writes off women and their actual concerns.
The only 'ideology' at play here is that of professional victimhood by privileged white men furious that publishing their odious opinions has led people to *challenge* their views instead of simply accepting them. They're the product of their own generation's outdated thinking, their insular lives in the upper echelons of academe, and their insatiable need to pontificate without pushback.
The only people acting like religious fundamentalists are people like Coyne, Pinker, and Dawkins who mirror their world view and opinions. Their "I know you are, but what am I?" defense is Pee Wee Herman level childish deflection. UGH. Done with these pompous asses.
Coyne, Pinker, and Dawkins have confused their expertise in narrow areas of study with authority. They want the world to bow to their opinions on things they know nothing about because their knowledge of other things was once respected. So much unearned privilege that they are willfully blind to.
A most egregious case of "Epistemic trespass". Elon Musk suffers from it too.
"Epistemic trespassing" refers to experts making judgments or expressing opinions on matters outside their field of expertise, potentially violating epistemic norms and undermining the reliability of their pronouncements.
Epistemic trespassing, as coined by philosopher Nathan Ballantyne, occurs when someone with expertise in one area ventures beyond their domain and offers opinions or judgments on a topic where they lack competence.
Lack of Expertise: Experts in one field may not be equipped to analyze or judge matters in another, potentially leading to inaccurate or misleading conclusions.
Abuse of Authority: Experts' authority in their field can be misused when they stray into unfamiliar territory, leading to undue influence and potentially harmful consequences.
Violation of Epistemic Norms: Making judgments without proper knowledge or competence can be seen as a violation of the norms of knowledge acquisition and the pursuit of truth.
Examples:
Linus Pauling: The Nobel laureate chemist's claims about mega-doses of vitamin C treating diseases, which were not supported by medical evidence, are often cited as an example of epistemic trespassing.
Frederick Seitz: A Stanford and Princeton physicist who sowed doubt about the link between tobacco and cancer and global warming.
My parents had an oven installed by a pseudo-electrician*. We kept getting shocked by it, so one day, I pulled it out and rewired it. What were my qualifications, you ask? Classes I took in electronics at a vocational technical institute.
* Back in the day, you could rent/borrow(?) an electrician's license here in Florida.
DM learned basic electricity by watching tutos on YouTube. She could do some rewiring in her friend's appartement (a doorway that was walled off and turned into shelves with lights).
I have a few former acquaintances that read the title of something and became medical doctors, lawyers, and Constitutional scholars in a matter of days. It's no wonder they think the DoE should be disbanded, all you need is FB.
Ironically, Michael Shermer pointed out that smart people are much more skilled and rationalizing their irrationality. Shermer's in the anti-trans crowd as well, but he's even more insignificant than CPD (Coyne, Pinker, Dawkins), as well as a sexual predator like Krauss.
Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.
Meaning that being versatile is a virtue, but the problem with folks who are a master of only one (these three specifically) is that they know a lot about their expertise and they assume that it translates to mastery of other subjects equally. And once they mastered their craft, they stopped learning and growing. So eventually, they are no longer masters as the craft moves on leaving them behind. But a Jack of all trades would continue to learn and be up to date with the crafts they’re working on, and open to critique. A versatile mind is a plastic mind, the know it alls are static or more appropriately stagnant minds.
These attacks on Trans people are merely a prelude to more hate and violence. Trans people are the easiest target for modern Nazis. They want to see how much the public will accept before going after the rest of the LGBT community. They are simultaneously going after brown skinned people as well.
So far it appears that Amerika is fine with what is happening.
I want to ask Coyne if he engaged in the scientific method with his "theory" (read: personal opinions). Were his ideas rigorously tested, thoroughy scrutinized and peer-reviewed before being accepted by the scientific community as fact? Or was it all just balloon juice by a guy who rejects the unfounded notions of deities.
Pretty obvious what the answer is. Do us all a favor, Jerry: Stay in your lane.
Coyne, Dawkins and Pinker continue to be the 3 Atheist Stooges.
The difference between them and the actual 3 Stooges (who were also nonbelievers) is that the latter were funny. There is nothing humorous about what Jerry, Richie and Stevie are spewing. It's ill-informed and dangerous.
There was a song called "Larry, Curly and Moe" that was sung to the tune of "Shake, Rattle and Roll" back in the '80s. I heard it only one time. It was performed onstage by an opening act whose name escapes me.
For several years, I was writing on Quora a lot. Back in January, I decided on the spur of a moment not to write anything more there, to delete my account. And right now, I am in the process of deleting literally thousands of emails from quora in My email trash.
One of the reasons I decided to do this was the absolute toxicity present on quora, Especially within the large cohort of anti-trans and antigay posters. I kept a lot of my comments, especially on the subject of transgender identities. So this is addressed to these jerkoffs.
Whatever your own issues may be, oh holy professors, It is clear that you’re willing to pay for them in the easy Coyne of other people’s lives.
—————-
It would be very helpful if you would educate yourself, rather than relying on someone like Jerry “counterfeit” coyne to miseducate you—or himself. Likewise, with ideologues like Dawkins, whom I used to respect. Because as far as I can tell, these Anti-transgender ideologues are the only Gender ideologues that I see in operation.
There are MAINLY two biological sexes, male and female. I use the word mainly because there are numbers of people born with conditions that are generally labeled “intersex“. Wikipedia has a very informative and not particularly difficult to read article on the subject.
Gender, however, is a different matter entirely, and has a very strong psychological component to it, as even these educated jerkoffs admit. This is true, but not in the way that they mean it, because they are willfully ignorant, and use their ignorance to mislead others. For 99.5% of the human population, physical sex and psychological gender are in alignment. For example, I am definitely a man, and have no sense of myself as being anything other than a man. I am also a gay man, but that has absolutely nothing to do with my physical sex or my psychological sense of my gender.
however, that is not the case for gender dysphoric and transgender people. Their sense of themselves as being of male or female gender is not in alignment with their biological sex. This has been a known medical/psychological phenomenon for at least 100 years, and a cultural Phenomenon studied by cultural anthropology for at least 150 years. They could educate themselves further on this subject, but they will not, because like every MAGAt or MAGAt wannabe, They prefer to believe whatever they think. They can read about the hijra of India, the mahu/mafu of polynesia, or the kathoey of Thailand. They can also read a great deal about the genetic evidence for gender dysphoria being a real phenomenon, unlike their slanders. They could just could Google it: “Biological basis for gender dysphoria” and “biological basis for transgender identity.” There are a wealth of articles on these subjects.
as far as I can tell, these gender ideologues want to mislead people, and use their own ignorance and prejudice against people they don’t know, know nothing about, and who have done them – or anyone – no harm.
If I could speak to them directly, I would say: “I would hope that you would like to educate yourself and learn about people you don’t know. The information is out there, and not too difficult to understand. After all, you’re pretending to be objective scientists. Pretend a little bit harder, and educate yourself rather than repeating mindless prejudice.”
Unfortunately, as I saw on quora, they have no interest in this. Not one person ever told me, “hey, I did Google biological basis for gender dysphoria, and I didn’t realize how ignorant I was on the subject.” Not one.
I simply do not understand why they are so invested in their ignorance. I can only compare it to the anti-gay prejudice that I have observed for more than 50 years as a gay rights activist. They’ve got their own issues, their own dark issues, and that’s all that matters to them.
Your comment has been removed, mr Scary. I didn’t cause it to happen, because I don’t believe in stopping debate.
I’m sure that you have statistics to prove it. You’d be surprised how many women are not terrorized by the thought of transgender women. But, just because they claim to be transgender doesn’t mean that they are. They are still people with penises that threaten women. In other words, heterosexual men.
No, i’m neither. But I find it interesting that it is mostly men that seem to be so terrified of transgender people.
I am also neither afraid of transgender people, ignorant about them medically. Psychologically, and culturally, historically ignorant, or stupid.
I can see that you did not read what I wrote, and certainly did not go and research those questions.
But I will tell you this much: I am a gay man in my 70s.exactly the same kinds of people are telling exactly the same kind of lies about transgender people that they were telling about gay people 25, 50, 75 years ago, and for a good deal of recorded history wherever Christianity has sunk itsfangs. They are Telling the same kinds of lies for exactly the same kinds of reasons— Prejudice, ignorance, power, money, and religious dominion. They are hoping for the same kind of results that they were hoping for when it was gay people who were their targets. Criminalization of transgender people, exclusion of transgender people, and erasure of transgender people.
Let me repeat something: regardless of whatever appearances might be, the people who are threats to women are people with penises. Knowledgeable people referred to those people as heterosexual men.
The FFRF has abandoned science? Nope. First of all, they aren't a scientific organization. They are about maintaining the wall of separation between church and state by reminding people that it is impossible to have freedom of religion without having freedom from religion. Second, The science is pretty clear about the existence of transgender people. Sure, there are aspects of policy that can be debated. The only thing I can think that might need more data is at what point in their transition should a transgender athlete be assigned to the men's or women's category for competition. The IOC and other organizations have guidelines that they revisit periodically to ensure that trans women are competing on a level playing field (because the transphobe's complaints seem to be 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 rooted in the lie that trans people are all men pretending to be women to take advantage of women). Based on what data I know about, I am willing to go with the IOC et al.
Coyne is a prime example of the fact, so misunderstood by the religious, that atheism is just the answer to one question: Do you believe there is a god of any kind? No.
ATTENTION TRANSPHOBIC TROLLS: I will not engage. I will report. I suggest you fuck right off before the banhammer falls.
The example I like to point to when the sports issue comes up anymore 𝘪𝘴 the Olympics. The IOC has allowed out trans athletes to compete since 2004, and in all the time since, there's been exactly one MtF trans Olympian- Laurel Hubbard, of New Zealand, competing in women's weightlifting- and she didn't take home any medals. If the right-wing narrative about trans women in sports held any water, then trans women should be 𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳-represented at the highest levels of competition, but instead... one athlete out of tens of thousands across two whole decades, and zero medals (and you'll note that her story did 𝘯𝘰𝘵 receive any attention from right-wing media, because a trans woman 𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘨 a competition doesn't fit their narrative).
The handful of media blowups about trans athletes don't fare any better under closer scrutiny. They all either tragically misrepresent the results of the contest that caused the drama, or the athlete at the center of it all turns out to not even be trans.
It's a nothingburger. Always has been.
Of course you like to point to the Olympics. It’s a cherry-picked category that supports your point of view. Next time try not limiting your data set to one, as though that’s everything there is to talk about. You believe in the lived experience of all men and women, so listen to the lower level (but still highly competitive) high school and college athletes who no longer qualify for scholarships or get injured because a trans woman who trained and competed as a man, was middle of the road in their sport, suddenly switches sides and in less than a year is now competing against women and blowing away the competition. Trans women are not women. They are men, trying to be women.
You're 𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦? Catch a fuckin' clue, Sue.
Here's some more stuff I know you won't read, or watch:
https://juliaserano.substack.com/p/trans-people-and-sports-everything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05gnCE6vk_4
https://wokeaf.substack.com/p/new-ioc-study-refutes-conservative
https://apnews.com/article/lawmakers-unable-to-cite-local-trans-girls-sports-914a982545e943ecc1e265e8c41042e7
https://pervertjustice.substack.com/p/and-another-thing-about-trans-kids
https://apnews.com/article/transgender-roller-derby-nassau-new-york-a918953e0063760c9d00372f322b7765
https://www.assignedmedia.org/breaking-news/ut-cisgender-athlete-police-protection-threats
But wait, there's more!
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/debunked-no-80-of-trans-youth-do
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/2600-leaked-anti-trans-lobbyist-emails
https://apnews.com/article/transgender-health-model-legislation-5cc4a7cb4ab69150f670d06fd0f361ab
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/wpath-files-authors-upset-over-how
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR_AP_uF8a0
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/groundbreaking-study-shows-extremely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABojJ2rW6vA
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35212746/
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2809058?widget=personalizedcontent&previousarticle=0
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIK-x5uT6oS-jLoc8axeD_zZ_TDK0OTeb
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/new-randomized-trial-shows-trans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oymS48OpNQ
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/the-myth-of-low-quality-evidence
Get back to me when you've done your fucking homework, Sue.
Why shouldn’t I be here? I have the same rights as you.
You shouldn't be here because you have too much reading to catch up on; I know you didn't get through all of that in three little hours. Run along, now.
I read through both those posts and they are blanket pro-trans in the same way certain Conservative voices are blanket anti-trans. They offer their assumptive voice as the only reason they say what they say. Your article by Julia says “Straight people have long expressed baseless fears…” What data shows they are baseless fears? Just because Julia says they’re baseless?
In a Sun Valley Wisconsin high school, an 18 year old senior trans woman (non-transitioned biological male) joined a group of 14 year old freshman girls who were showering chlorine off their swimsuits, walked into the shower and said “I’m trans” and proceeded to fully undress and exposed his male genitalia to them. This violates Title IX protections of girls and women.
I also find it interesting that your two articles presumably contradict each other, where Ms. Serano says “…the fact that no trans woman has ever dominated in any women’s sports league or category shows that we are not “taking over” or “destroying” women’s sports.” And yet your other article very pointedly talks about how “Lia Thomas won a national swimming championship in her senior year.” And fails to point out the data showing Lia was ranked 65th on the men’s team for the 500-freestyle, but ranked 1st among women.
And both authors also make unfounded claims about the idea that trans-athlete bans are only being used as a wedge to set a precedent that will allow trans women to be considered women in ALL aspects of their lives, and not just sports. But in all my reading on the subject, I have only seen it being used in three areas - sports, healthcare (because trans women don’t need Pap smears, or hysterectomies, or checked for cervical cancer), and pre-transition exposure in locker rooms and bathrooms. So your “supporting evidence” is not so much evidence as it is hollow claims and baseless fears based on pro-trans propaganda.
Thank you, Joe! A well-reasoned, well-stated post. Who knew we'd have to explain to an alleged life-long atheist like Coyne that atheism isn't an ideology, a quasi-religion, or a worldview. It's just the single answer to a singular question: Does god exist?
Or as I would rather say “Does god exist outside of your belief?” I don’t deny another person’s right to believe in a delusion, but strenuously object to the use of the state to impose religiously derived strictures on civil society. That’s the 1st amendment free exercise and establishment clause in a nutshell.
𝑌𝑜𝑢 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑎 𝑟𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡 𝑡𝑜 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑜𝑤𝑛 𝑜𝑝𝑖𝑛𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠, 𝒃𝒖𝒕 𝒚𝒐𝒖 𝒅𝒐 𝒏𝒐𝒕 𝒉𝒂𝒗𝒆 𝒂 𝒓𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒕 𝒕𝒐 𝒚𝒐𝒖𝒓 𝒐𝒘𝒏 𝒇𝒂𝒄𝒕𝒔. [emphasis mine]
-- Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Couldn't agree with you more, Lewis!
Bravo!
Well put.
Yes to all of this, let those who study sports medicine, and athletic development be the judges of sports, not red-hatted dipshits waving their religion around like their penis in our faces.,
Transphobic troll here. I'll have you know it's all about the gametes. When someone entered the women's bathroom, my transvestigtor radar went off and I was able to detect her gametes because she looked too manish.
#sarcasm (just in case)
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Like their fundamentalist counterparts, these anti-trans members of the free-thought community have a strong tendency to dehumanize those with whom they disagree. The trans community is tiny, and the threat they pose is mostly in the heads of the people opposing them. In spite of the lack of a genuine threat, our culture is driven to try and hammer people into the approved molds, whether they fit or not.
You touch on a very important point, oraxx. Why decide to single out the transgender community, which as you say, is a small percentage of the overall population. More importantly, WHO painted the target on the transgender community in the first place? The Red Hat Brigade of right-wing, religious fundamentalists who also thew in drag queens, and anyone daring to be American while gay.
People who support the transgender community do so out of the simple principle that everyone has the right to live and work in safety and with respect. It's not a 'religious' point of view, but a simple matter of basic human decency and respect.
Conservatives tend to attack people who can't fight back, regardless of the issue.
👆❤️❤️❤️🎯Yes, just tell me how you identify, if you want me to know. I nod and done. No problem.
It's just that easy. If you're a decent person. ❤️
Well said Jane in NC!
Thank you, SR!
I'm a little surprised that Jerry doesn't extend his logic. If he did, he'd be as homophobic as he is transphobic, since men are OBVIOUSLY meant to bond with women and vice versa, and homosexuality would be a clear aberration to him.
Yet he wants to obsess with THIS. BLEAUGH. 😝
He's picking off the easy target first and weakening up the harder targets for later persecution. It's a well established far right tactic.
Good observation, though going after the gay / lesbian community would be a massive mistake on Jerry's part. They're ORGANIZED and not likely to just take Jerry's crap.
It's what all the TERFs are planning.
Nasty creatures that they are, pretending they speak for all cis-women.
I mean the whole feminism gig (at least in the original concept) was about equality. They just want to defecate on the next people who want rights, they want superiority.
They should replace "feminists" by "facists".
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Gender theology? LOL Christians have a long history of defining those with whom they disagree in terms that suit their biases. I suspect your silly comment is just more of it.
Yup.
Troublesh00ter, 👍🏼
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Gender dysphoria is not as protected in the laws as the rest of the LGBTQI+ community. Wait for Obergefell to be overturned, and maga states to criminalise non cishet relationships to see the three compañeros don a virtual red hat and howl with them.
I wonder if the ADA would cover gender dysphoria.
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[sigh] And Jerry is off to the races again, talking about something about which he knows NOTHING. No, Jerry, gender is NOT binary. Hell, neither is SEX, particularly when one considers sexual variations outside of XX and XY, never mind the occasional occurrence of human hermaphroditism. But as it comes to gender, all Jerry would have to do is open his eyes and LOOK ... and maybe open his ears and LISTEN, particularly to people whose physiologies and self-apprehensions fail to match.
But he won't, nor will Dawkins, and it's their loss.
There are a couple of very good documentaries available about people who are intersex. They talk about how they found out, how their parents reacted, how they had to sort through deciding how to live their lives and how to present themselves to the world. Ole Jerry could learn a thing or two about basic humanity from listening to their stories.
I wonder if there's any chance that Jerry could realize how DOGMATIC he sounds.
I'll take 'Not A Chance' for $200, Alex.
His parents are Jewish. Was he raised secular, liberal, orthodox, other ? Like dawkins, he may think he left religion behind him , but that doesn't mean religious way of thinking didn't imprint on him. Humans don't grew up in a cultural vacuum.
You raise an excellent point, as always. Organized religion, especially if indoctrinated early, scars one's psyche.
Will Ferrell's Harper. What a wonderful (and sad) documentary. It reveals the true pain and despair that can be a part of the trans experience. While I have always felt compassion toward them, I now also feel empathy. Who hasn't experienced pain and despair at some point in their life, after all? I found myself wanting to hug Harper and tell her that things are going to be okay. Unfortunately, they probably won't be, at least not for now.
Thanks. I wasn't familiar with that movie, but I'll look for it.
Trying to ignore the fact that gender is a social construct never works out.
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If you really wanted to protect women, birth control would be free, and maybe do something about sexual assault of women and girls
Don't try to pretend this is about protecting women and girls.
I've never been assaulted by a transwoman in a bathroom.
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They keep using “woke” as an insult but don’t realize the people they use it against aren’t insulted by it and it only backfires on them by painting them as heartless assholes. “Oh no! I’m compassionate, caring, empathetic, and kind to other people! How dare I.”
FFRF and the other groups they’re claiming are abandoning science aren’t abandoning science, because the backs up transgender people, but these fucks are abandoning humanity, empathy, and science - they are referring to old conclusions drawn from data that was intrinsically lacking, biased “studies” that work from a conclusion to find data, and refuse to consider new evidence as it comes available. But, most importantly, they’ve ignored the one fact that outweighs any other evidence or ideology or butthurt feelings, transgender people are people. Full stop. They deserve empathy. They deserve compassion. They deserve respect as human beings. And the three stooges here refuse to acknowledge transgender people’s humanity. So I don’t have sympathy for their loss of respect as authorities, access to platforms they thought they were owed, or any other perceived privilege they lost. Boo hoo. No one is trying to murder them for being who they are. But transgender people are facing violence from all fronts.
When someone brings dog shit to the pot luck, there’s no debate about where it should be placed, it belongs in the trash, outside. Bigotry is dog shit. It doesn’t deserve a place at the table.
Last time somone called me woke I replied with "Thank you for the compliment". And I smiled.
Beats being asleep!
Comatose.
Brain dead.
Beat me to it.
GMTA
😄👍🏼
How is inspecting little girls’ genitalia providing them with safety, dignity, and boundaries? How is attacking women in the restroom, calling them males, threatening their lives providing them with safety, dignity, and boundaries? How is accusing women and girls of trying to molest others providing safety, dignity, and boundaries? All I have seen is transphobes being violent, violent toward transgender people who have done nothing wrong, to women who don’t fit the feminine expectations of the transphobes, and to anyone who might not agree with the bigotry you are espousing. None of the actions taken by transphobes, especially the ones making legislation, has protected a single woman or girl from being harmed. In fact, it has caused women and girls to be much less safe. I’ve been a witness to the violence, it was aimed at a cis woman and it was totally uncalled for. I have never seen a transgender person be a threat to anyone, nor have I seen the lady with a short haircut, or large jawline, or just a preference for flannel harm anyone. The question isn’t if I hate women, it’s why do you. Why do you want to make them less safe? Why are you attacking me, a woman, for not fearing a group of people who have never ever been a threat to me?
Reality is, we are much more vulnerable around cis men and cis men will do nothing about it. They cry about false accusations, ruined lives, and women’s accountability for their own victimization, but never about the fact that 90% of violent crime and rape are perpetrated by cis men. Transphobes are the loudest defenders of cis male violence/rapes. The transphobe bandwagon is a tool they’re using to deflect from their own crimes, to circle the wagons around the cis men who are predators, the clergy who oldest children, the powerful who use their power to rape women, the swimmers who go to parties to drug and rape innocent women behind dumpsters. Are you upset about those men, or just that there might be a transgender woman trying to take a piss in a public restroom? That’s rhetorical, I know the answer,you aren’t here commenting on those articles, just the ones that defend transgender people.
Val, if I wasn't straight, I would ask you in marriage 🤣
If I wasn’t already married, I would consider it.
Way to not address what was being discussed and making up bullshit. No one says they’re transmogrifying or muttering incantations. Grow up. Only a bigot would keep ignoring facts to hold tight to his violent tendencies. When are you going to get upset about cis men attacking women? You only care about protecting women when it gives you a way to hurt transgender people.
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Do you have any other phrases in your programming? You're boring.
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When you're in bed with fundamentalists and Nazis, it's time to go home and rethink your life, Jerry.
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Transphobia is a treatable mental illness. Coyne and pals should seek the services of licensed mental health care professionals, they needn't continue to suffer.
Self-immolation is much faster.
And permanent.
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Someone else being trans doesn't affect your life in any way unless they are a loved one in danger from religious bigots.
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I have no religious beliefs, dumbass, I am atheist. Sounds like you are a pervert, concerning yourself with others’ genitalia.
You clearly have a mental disability, pervert. Human rights are not theology. No go back under your rock.
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Jerry has become unable to accept new information and adjust his opinion. He is no different than MAGA. He, and these other old men, have lost the ability to think critically, and it's sad. I doubt he has done any actual research to find out what transgender people go through just to be themselves, and instead believes that a man throws on a dress and goes into the ladies room for illicit purposes, because he can't imagine anything else. Such a shame.
It's often the case with scientists. They manage to pioneer new areas and stake their flag on a new hill. Then they rest on their laurels and get passed by, but refuse to budge.
I've heard that science advances one death at a time.
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The science isn't limited to the gametes, nor is it limited to genetics. It's way more complex than assholes like Coyne and Dawkins are presenting to you. What they are doing is manipulating you. I'm sure you don't like that.
The problem with relying on gametes, is when a woman who looks too man-ish walks into the women's restroom, the man who follows her in isn't checking her gametes when he drags her out of there.
All animals? Not quite. Just the ones you are aware of. There's a whole wonderful world out there. Be curious, read more than just what's presented to you.
Gametes aren't the sole determinant of sex. During development in the womb, the gonad streaks develop either into testes or ovaries. In some people who have Differences in Sexual Development (DSD). A woman with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS) has XY chromosomes, but her body doesn't react to testosterone. As a result, such a woman will not develop testes, nor will the gonad streaks develop into ovaries. She will look like a girl at birth and be assigned based on her appearance alone. No one checks the gametes, except when testes are seen.
What is her sex if she has neither testes nor ovaries?
A person with Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome can have a mix of sexual characteristics from both sexes. What is that person's gender?
I recommend reading Intersex and Identity. It's both informative and tragic.
And, again, this has nothing to do with religion nor theology. You insult both when you refer to gender that way.
Good point Jennifer. We may be Woke (I hope we are!) But he is in a fundamentalist mindset. Since he disagrees, it means FFRF is too far to the left. EGO big enough guys? That sounds far more MAGA than intellectual to me.
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“…and guilty of caving to “hysterical squeals from predictable quarters” (Dawkins). “
Of course the flaming misogynist would use this language. When you don’t consider half the population as people, you can write off their very real concerns as “hysterical squeals.”
Not that I’m saying only women support trans rights or all women support trans rights, what I’m saying is that he puts transgender people and the left (or anyone that supports women’s rights) into a category that he can write off as he writes off women and their actual concerns.
The only 'ideology' at play here is that of professional victimhood by privileged white men furious that publishing their odious opinions has led people to *challenge* their views instead of simply accepting them. They're the product of their own generation's outdated thinking, their insular lives in the upper echelons of academe, and their insatiable need to pontificate without pushback.
The only people acting like religious fundamentalists are people like Coyne, Pinker, and Dawkins who mirror their world view and opinions. Their "I know you are, but what am I?" defense is Pee Wee Herman level childish deflection. UGH. Done with these pompous asses.
They’re just high off of smelling their own farts.
Which apparently they believe smell of roses and rarefied air.
Coyne, Pinker, and Dawkins have confused their expertise in narrow areas of study with authority. They want the world to bow to their opinions on things they know nothing about because their knowledge of other things was once respected. So much unearned privilege that they are willfully blind to.
A most egregious case of "Epistemic trespass". Elon Musk suffers from it too.
"Epistemic trespassing" refers to experts making judgments or expressing opinions on matters outside their field of expertise, potentially violating epistemic norms and undermining the reliability of their pronouncements.
Epistemic trespassing, as coined by philosopher Nathan Ballantyne, occurs when someone with expertise in one area ventures beyond their domain and offers opinions or judgments on a topic where they lack competence.
Lack of Expertise: Experts in one field may not be equipped to analyze or judge matters in another, potentially leading to inaccurate or misleading conclusions.
Abuse of Authority: Experts' authority in their field can be misused when they stray into unfamiliar territory, leading to undue influence and potentially harmful consequences.
Violation of Epistemic Norms: Making judgments without proper knowledge or competence can be seen as a violation of the norms of knowledge acquisition and the pursuit of truth.
Examples:
Linus Pauling: The Nobel laureate chemist's claims about mega-doses of vitamin C treating diseases, which were not supported by medical evidence, are often cited as an example of epistemic trespassing.
Frederick Seitz: A Stanford and Princeton physicist who sowed doubt about the link between tobacco and cancer and global warming.
Wow! I didn't know "stay in your lane" had formal terminology. Thanks!
I guess that makes them epistemic trespassers.
Yup. They remind me of every DIYer who did a decent job painting the living room and now thinks he's qualified to rewire the house.
My parents had an oven installed by a pseudo-electrician*. We kept getting shocked by it, so one day, I pulled it out and rewired it. What were my qualifications, you ask? Classes I took in electronics at a vocational technical institute.
* Back in the day, you could rent/borrow(?) an electrician's license here in Florida.
DM learned basic electricity by watching tutos on YouTube. She could do some rewiring in her friend's appartement (a doorway that was walled off and turned into shelves with lights).
I have a few former acquaintances that read the title of something and became medical doctors, lawyers, and Constitutional scholars in a matter of days. It's no wonder they think the DoE should be disbanded, all you need is FB.
Way too many people showing their asses these days based on nothing but their FB U degrees.
Ironically, Michael Shermer pointed out that smart people are much more skilled and rationalizing their irrationality. Shermer's in the anti-trans crowd as well, but he's even more insignificant than CPD (Coyne, Pinker, Dawkins), as well as a sexual predator like Krauss.
Jack of all trades, master of none.
That’s only half the quote.
Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.
Meaning that being versatile is a virtue, but the problem with folks who are a master of only one (these three specifically) is that they know a lot about their expertise and they assume that it translates to mastery of other subjects equally. And once they mastered their craft, they stopped learning and growing. So eventually, they are no longer masters as the craft moves on leaving them behind. But a Jack of all trades would continue to learn and be up to date with the crafts they’re working on, and open to critique. A versatile mind is a plastic mind, the know it alls are static or more appropriately stagnant minds.
These attacks on Trans people are merely a prelude to more hate and violence. Trans people are the easiest target for modern Nazis. They want to see how much the public will accept before going after the rest of the LGBT community. They are simultaneously going after brown skinned people as well.
So far it appears that Amerika is fine with what is happening.
Yes, like teenagers being the Canary in the coal mine on reproductive rights, they are test cases for acceptable bigotry to their base.
The OG Nazis kicked off their power trip the same way as the MAGAts have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft
Evil just doesn't 𝘥𝘰 originality.
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pound salt, troll loser.
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Coyne: “Woke ideology”. He didn’t need to expound on his bullshit after using this most beloved of right wing nut job phrases
"WOKE", because kkkons cannot spell empathy and caring.
Throw in "compassion" while you're at it!
I want to ask Coyne if he engaged in the scientific method with his "theory" (read: personal opinions). Were his ideas rigorously tested, thoroughy scrutinized and peer-reviewed before being accepted by the scientific community as fact? Or was it all just balloon juice by a guy who rejects the unfounded notions of deities.
Pretty obvious what the answer is. Do us all a favor, Jerry: Stay in your lane.
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Coyne, Dawkins and Pinker continue to be the 3 Atheist Stooges.
The difference between them and the actual 3 Stooges (who were also nonbelievers) is that the latter were funny. There is nothing humorous about what Jerry, Richie and Stevie are spewing. It's ill-informed and dangerous.
Why, I oughta!!!
Ahm a victim of coicumstance!
Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck!!
Hey, Moe, hey, Moe!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4_ApvtdSzg
Look at the grouse! Look at the grouse!
Soitenly!
There was a song called "Larry, Curly and Moe" that was sung to the tune of "Shake, Rattle and Roll" back in the '80s. I heard it only one time. It was performed onstage by an opening act whose name escapes me.
This what you're looking for?
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Woke means you have empathy and care about others.
Using woke as pejorative means you’re a loathsome POS.
For several years, I was writing on Quora a lot. Back in January, I decided on the spur of a moment not to write anything more there, to delete my account. And right now, I am in the process of deleting literally thousands of emails from quora in My email trash.
One of the reasons I decided to do this was the absolute toxicity present on quora, Especially within the large cohort of anti-trans and antigay posters. I kept a lot of my comments, especially on the subject of transgender identities. So this is addressed to these jerkoffs.
Whatever your own issues may be, oh holy professors, It is clear that you’re willing to pay for them in the easy Coyne of other people’s lives.
—————-
It would be very helpful if you would educate yourself, rather than relying on someone like Jerry “counterfeit” coyne to miseducate you—or himself. Likewise, with ideologues like Dawkins, whom I used to respect. Because as far as I can tell, these Anti-transgender ideologues are the only Gender ideologues that I see in operation.
There are MAINLY two biological sexes, male and female. I use the word mainly because there are numbers of people born with conditions that are generally labeled “intersex“. Wikipedia has a very informative and not particularly difficult to read article on the subject.
Gender, however, is a different matter entirely, and has a very strong psychological component to it, as even these educated jerkoffs admit. This is true, but not in the way that they mean it, because they are willfully ignorant, and use their ignorance to mislead others. For 99.5% of the human population, physical sex and psychological gender are in alignment. For example, I am definitely a man, and have no sense of myself as being anything other than a man. I am also a gay man, but that has absolutely nothing to do with my physical sex or my psychological sense of my gender.
however, that is not the case for gender dysphoric and transgender people. Their sense of themselves as being of male or female gender is not in alignment with their biological sex. This has been a known medical/psychological phenomenon for at least 100 years, and a cultural Phenomenon studied by cultural anthropology for at least 150 years. They could educate themselves further on this subject, but they will not, because like every MAGAt or MAGAt wannabe, They prefer to believe whatever they think. They can read about the hijra of India, the mahu/mafu of polynesia, or the kathoey of Thailand. They can also read a great deal about the genetic evidence for gender dysphoria being a real phenomenon, unlike their slanders. They could just could Google it: “Biological basis for gender dysphoria” and “biological basis for transgender identity.” There are a wealth of articles on these subjects.
as far as I can tell, these gender ideologues want to mislead people, and use their own ignorance and prejudice against people they don’t know, know nothing about, and who have done them – or anyone – no harm.
If I could speak to them directly, I would say: “I would hope that you would like to educate yourself and learn about people you don’t know. The information is out there, and not too difficult to understand. After all, you’re pretending to be objective scientists. Pretend a little bit harder, and educate yourself rather than repeating mindless prejudice.”
Unfortunately, as I saw on quora, they have no interest in this. Not one person ever told me, “hey, I did Google biological basis for gender dysphoria, and I didn’t realize how ignorant I was on the subject.” Not one.
I simply do not understand why they are so invested in their ignorance. I can only compare it to the anti-gay prejudice that I have observed for more than 50 years as a gay rights activist. They’ve got their own issues, their own dark issues, and that’s all that matters to them.
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Your comment has been removed, mr Scary. I didn’t cause it to happen, because I don’t believe in stopping debate.
I’m sure that you have statistics to prove it. You’d be surprised how many women are not terrorized by the thought of transgender women. But, just because they claim to be transgender doesn’t mean that they are. They are still people with penises that threaten women. In other words, heterosexual men.
No, i’m neither. But I find it interesting that it is mostly men that seem to be so terrified of transgender people.
I am also neither afraid of transgender people, ignorant about them medically. Psychologically, and culturally, historically ignorant, or stupid.
I can see that you did not read what I wrote, and certainly did not go and research those questions.
But I will tell you this much: I am a gay man in my 70s.exactly the same kinds of people are telling exactly the same kind of lies about transgender people that they were telling about gay people 25, 50, 75 years ago, and for a good deal of recorded history wherever Christianity has sunk itsfangs. They are Telling the same kinds of lies for exactly the same kinds of reasons— Prejudice, ignorance, power, money, and religious dominion. They are hoping for the same kind of results that they were hoping for when it was gay people who were their targets. Criminalization of transgender people, exclusion of transgender people, and erasure of transgender people.
Let me repeat something: regardless of whatever appearances might be, the people who are threats to women are people with penises. Knowledgeable people referred to those people as heterosexual men.
Maybe you should start there.
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