Clarification: "I need to store my own blood for an upcoming surgery and I don't want to be seen as a hypocrite." -- Random Governing Body Member.
It would not surprise me if this was the real reason. Religious fanatics always seem to change the rules when their harsh punishments may apply to them.
A further question: what does it COST to store one's own blood? I can't imagine that it's a no-charge deal, never mind the costs of phlebotomy to put up however many units of whole blood might be necessary for a procedure. Could the average JW afford it?
I saw that in Ecuador too. Also in Estonia, San Francisco, and Malta.
But I don’t think they actually care if anybody stops and talks to them. Like the letter letters that we received at our old address periodically from the local JW Aberschnakle, telling us about all these wonderful things you get when you join the JW’s, it was strictly performative.
As someone who was raised a JW, and made to sign one of those little "No Blood" cards at 5 years old. Fuck that entire cult organization. This is an absolute reversal
Thanks! It's been 20 years and I have no regrets. Been trying to open the eyes and minds of some family members that are half in / half out for years but they believe you have to believe in "the truth" to be a good person and just believe the Bible is fact so it's' been tough.
Interesting that they say that you have to believe “the truth” to be a good person. Your question, should you decide to accept it, is:
“So, are you telling me that the only thing stopping you from murdering someone else, raping someone else, or robbing a bank is your religion? Excuse me while I back slowly out of the room.”
While I have little use for any flavor of Christianity, I really don’t know where to begin with the JW’s. Their sect has been making predictions for the last century that all failed to materialize. They just come up with some post-hoc rationalizations and go their merry way. They’ve also suppressed a lot of child abuse.
They're also the ones most likely to show up at your front door, hawking their bilge. I had at least ... what ... six or seven encounters with them when we lived in Bedford Heights, and in each case, I held my own against their bullshit, if I may say so myself. They haven't shown up here in Massillon yet, but then we've only been here six months.
And my arguments have only gotten sharper with time.
The last time they showed up on my doorstep, maybe 15 years or so ago, maybe more, they had a little boy about seven or eight years old with them. He was their spokesman. Or spokes boy.
He said: “do you know who is the king of the universe?” that was a new low, even for the JW’s. Who’s going to argue with a cute little boy? I got down on one knee so that I could look him right in the eye, and I said, “I don’t know, and neither do you. you know what these people told you to say to me. That’s all that you know.”
Then I got off of my knee, and told them never to come back. And if I’m recalling correctly, they didn’t.
I live in a retirement community in the burbs of north Dallas. I've never seen a JW here, and very few religious door knockers genereally. People in their 70's and 80's have already made up their minds.
For an omniscient entity he got quite a lot of things wrong, he didn't seem to know that teh Flud was a story stolen from the Epic of Gilgamesh, and he thought it really happened.
"Anyone who looks to the bible for health care needs to have their head examined."
The prescription against eating shellfish and pork was sensible in its day, but it is no longer a good rule but religious dogma. Anyone following religious dogma needs to have their head examined
'proscription'? Probably. That word has been in the news a lot recently here in the UK because our right wing Labour government proscribed Palestine Action, on organisation acting against genocide.
I try to understand what you wrote. Is it "UK government led by Labour label those who fight or protest against the genoside of the Palestine happening right now as terrorists."? If yes, this is newspeak, right?
There is absolutely no reliable evidence of the existence of a supernatural being. None, zilch. Any religion on earth is based on fables, superstition and fairytales. And there must be an awful lot of people on this earth, who cannot get that simple reality through their skull. For god’s sake, get wise man!
Far out! Our last Cleveland Orchestra concert for this season is a complete performance of Götterdämmerung! I'm not that wild for Wagner, but it's still worth seeing and hearing!
Wagnerian operas are notorious for being long-winded and not at all structured like most Viennese or Italian operas. Still, it's worth experiencing at least once, though generally, Der Ring Ohne Worte holds me as it comes to Wagner.
You mean the ring without all of those people yakking constantly, but very very very slowly, and taking forever to say it.
As Mark Twain didn’t actually say, Wagner is much better than he sounds. The last one I was able to sit through was the Flying Dutchman, and even that I didn’t make it to the end.
Two years ago, I saw one of my favorite operas, cosi fan Tutte. I’ll see it almost anytime it’s performed. But a 3 1/2 to 4 hours, it’s a little too much for me to sit for, either. Give me a nice Janaček. Two hours, fabulous music, and everybody who needs to die is dead.
The question here is obvious: Just WHAT JW DIED because of this stupid policy that caused them to rethink their dogma? Or how many died and where did they stand in the JW scheme of things? This stupidity has been adamantine to their cult for over 80 years now, and all of a sudden, they are CLARIFYING their policy?
Shit like this doesn't happen in a vacuum. This needs to be dug into ... with a backhoe!
Probably a very rich donor had died; someone who belong to the JW died and their rich and well connected family is threatened a lawsuit or some other very PUBLIC dressing down, so now the JW is changing their policy. If an average member would have died, I am sure nothing would have changed. Things only change in religions when it effect the elite members of that religion!
“ On Friday, Governing Body member Gerrit Lösch announced that it was now perfectly fine to store your own blood for a future transfusion.”
And…
‘Qui bono?”, Asks Hemant.
Ooohhhh! PIck me! PIck me!!!!!
BLoody hell! I see three things going on here. First, the JW’s are very conscious of their image. They don’t want to appear totally backward in the modern world.* Second, if they are like every other religion, they are hemorrhaging members. It’s one thing to hemorrhage members, it’s quite another thing to have them die off because of an idiotic policy that has absolutely nothing to do with reality. As a rabbi once said to me regarding gay people, “the Torah cannot condemn what the Torah knows nothing about.” to say that the Bible forbid transfusions is, as Hemant notes, simply overlaying whatever the Bible does say with a human directive.
There is a third possibility, of course. Check the stock portfolios of the governing body and see how many of them own shares in blood storage facilities. Or check which of the governing body men might need a blood transfusion, or have a wife or child in need of a blood Transfusion.
But a thought like that would be totally, totally cynical and I would never express a totally cynical thought whenever it comes to conservative religion.
If JWs down't want to appear totally backward, they picked one hell of a hill to die on, and now, of course, they've all but decided that the hill isn't worth the fuss. This just makes me wonder all the more what is at the root of this decision.
I'm perfectly fine with adults doing whatever silly shit they want with their own bodies. Children shouldn't be subject to fuckwittery based on their parents' mythology cosplaying.
My step daughter is JW from birth. Her father is not and we decided a long time ago (she's 35 now) that if a life threatening emergency happens with her, she's getting blood. I couldn't stand there a watch one of my children die over something stupid. And we told her this.
OT: Another DugHead was arrested for child endangerment.
"Joseph Garrett Duggar, 31, is facing new charges out of Tontitown, Arkansas. According to the Washington County Detention Center’s inmate roster, he’s facing charges of false imprisonment in the second degree and endangering the welfare of a minor in the second degree.
Online jail records also show his wife, Kendra Duggar, is facing charges of false imprisonment in the second degree and endangering the welfare of a minor in the second degree. She was booked into the Washington County Detention Center and released on $1,470 bond.
Reportedly, when police officers arrived to arrest Joseph, they found padlocks on all the children’s doors, locking them from the inside, which would make it impossible to exit in the event of a fire or other emergency."
We got the news about Joeseph's kiddie-diddling a couple days ago... but the bit about the door locks is new, I think. That adds a whole new level of squick to this story... and places his own children squarely in the pool of other potential (read that: 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘳𝘦𝘥𝘪𝘣𝘭𝘺 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦𝘭𝘺) victims.
I never knew the previous residents of the house we now occupy, but when we moved in, there were a couple of bedrooms with slide bolts on the outside and one with a hasp and staple for a padlock. I don't know if this was to keep children from entering the rooms or prevent them from getting out, but I removed them all immediately. Still creeps me out.
Funny how these ultra-hard-line religious groups dance around their own theology. They claim their lord's word is perfect and immutable, subject only to a single authoritative interpretation... then just change it whenever it's convenient for the holy men in charge, to make it seem that they're joining the rest of us in modernity, or because they or someone whose money they care deeply about needed something the old dogma prohibited... and then they insist that, no, 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 was 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 the perfect, immutable word of the lord, and the 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘷𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴 interpretation was wrong. But this time we've got it 𝘵𝘰𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 right, see? It'll 𝘯𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳 change again. We 𝘴𝘸𝘦𝘢𝘳! No looking behind our backs for crossed fingers!
The gospels have multiple stories of Jesus placing human need and well-being before "The Law".
So the prohibition makes no sense even if you accept the idea that an Iron Age scribe or priest was thinking of 19th century medical techniques that had not been invented yet.
Clarification: "I need to store my own blood for an upcoming surgery and I don't want to be seen as a hypocrite." -- Random Governing Body Member.
It would not surprise me if this was the real reason. Religious fanatics always seem to change the rules when their harsh punishments may apply to them.
A further question: what does it COST to store one's own blood? I can't imagine that it's a no-charge deal, never mind the costs of phlebotomy to put up however many units of whole blood might be necessary for a procedure. Could the average JW afford it?
Unlikely.
"A further question: what does it COST to store one's own blood?"
I would think it depends on whether it is going to be used in a scheduled operation, or "Just in case I am involved in a road accident, and need it" †
† The bible says nothing about travelling in cars, should the JWs actuall be doing this?
(Here is a picture I took in Ecuador
https://ibb.co/84Yq9f6w
Has anyone ever seen anybody stop and talk to the JWs?)
Excellent point. One wonders if JWs actually TAKE VACATIONS! 😏
I saw that in Ecuador too. Also in Estonia, San Francisco, and Malta.
But I don’t think they actually care if anybody stops and talks to them. Like the letter letters that we received at our old address periodically from the local JW Aberschnakle, telling us about all these wonderful things you get when you join the JW’s, it was strictly performative.
I see them around the city as well and nobody is ever talking with them.
The "average JW" is delusional enough to be a JW, so I doubt he's contemplating a future where he needs blood for a medical emergency.
Those JW's I knew about are dead now, but they were filthy rich. Mostly because they got payd for helping the nazi government in Norway during ww2.
My thought too - or someone in their family.
As someone who was raised a JW, and made to sign one of those little "No Blood" cards at 5 years old. Fuck that entire cult organization. This is an absolute reversal
Congrats on getting OUT!
Thanks! It's been 20 years and I have no regrets. Been trying to open the eyes and minds of some family members that are half in / half out for years but they believe you have to believe in "the truth" to be a good person and just believe the Bible is fact so it's' been tough.
Interesting that they say that you have to believe “the truth” to be a good person. Your question, should you decide to accept it, is:
“So, are you telling me that the only thing stopping you from murdering someone else, raping someone else, or robbing a bank is your religion? Excuse me while I back slowly out of the room.”
Sending healing vibes over to your 5 yr old self ✨
While I have little use for any flavor of Christianity, I really don’t know where to begin with the JW’s. Their sect has been making predictions for the last century that all failed to materialize. They just come up with some post-hoc rationalizations and go their merry way. They’ve also suppressed a lot of child abuse.
They're also the ones most likely to show up at your front door, hawking their bilge. I had at least ... what ... six or seven encounters with them when we lived in Bedford Heights, and in each case, I held my own against their bullshit, if I may say so myself. They haven't shown up here in Massillon yet, but then we've only been here six months.
And my arguments have only gotten sharper with time.
The last time they showed up on my doorstep, maybe 15 years or so ago, maybe more, they had a little boy about seven or eight years old with them. He was their spokesman. Or spokes boy.
He said: “do you know who is the king of the universe?” that was a new low, even for the JW’s. Who’s going to argue with a cute little boy? I got down on one knee so that I could look him right in the eye, and I said, “I don’t know, and neither do you. you know what these people told you to say to me. That’s all that you know.”
Then I got off of my knee, and told them never to come back. And if I’m recalling correctly, they didn’t.
Nice move.
I thought it was pretty clever at the time. Occasionally, someone appreciates my genius.
I live in a retirement community in the burbs of north Dallas. I've never seen a JW here, and very few religious door knockers genereally. People in their 70's and 80's have already made up their minds.
JWs in my area have a knack for— an absolute GIFT for showing up at the worst possible times, and not taking “No” for an answer:
- the day before my ex-partner’s funeral, when I was already crazy from grief and going to spread his ashes the next day;
- the day before I left for my first European concert tour;
- when I had viral meningitis;
- the morning we were packing the van to move away from Austin.
It’s like they know “Mark is seriously stressed” so they descend like murder hornets!
The children in these families are who I feel bad for. Just being born into a JW family is abuse.
Anyone who looks to the bible for health care needs to have their head examined.
Isn't it this book that advises people to wash in the blood of Jesus and wash in the blood of their enemies?
Never mind Jesus saying not to wash your hands before eating because it's what comes OUT that defiles, et cetera. It's all madness.
Kegsbreath hasn't washed his hands in over a decade because...get this...he says "germs aren't real." *eye roll*
Oh, but our Iran war is RIGHTEOUS somehow, according to him (I've forgotten the exact phrase he used). He SO needs to be forced to refresh his resume!
For an omniscient entity he got quite a lot of things wrong, he didn't seem to know that teh Flud was a story stolen from the Epic of Gilgamesh, and he thought it really happened.
"Anyone who looks to the bible for health care needs to have their head examined."
The prescription against eating shellfish and pork was sensible in its day, but it is no longer a good rule but religious dogma. Anyone following religious dogma needs to have their head examined
'proscription'? Probably. That word has been in the news a lot recently here in the UK because our right wing Labour government proscribed Palestine Action, on organisation acting against genocide.
I try to understand what you wrote. Is it "UK government led by Labour label those who fight or protest against the genoside of the Palestine happening right now as terrorists."? If yes, this is newspeak, right?
“ Anyone who looks to the bible for health care needs to have their head examined."
Well that won’t work. They’d have to go to a doctor for that.
Why do I have to explain everything?!?!?!🤪🤪🤪😘😘😘😘😘😘😘😘😘😘😘😘
Bacause you are worthy
Charles Taze Russell, the founder of JW, was a conman and a hypocrite (surprise surprise)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell
(Be sure to click on "Controversies")
Is there any founder of a religion who wasn't a conman¹ or a hypocrite?
¹ or conwoman.
Very short answer: NO
Long answer: HELL FUCKING NO
There is absolutely no reliable evidence of the existence of a supernatural being. None, zilch. Any religion on earth is based on fables, superstition and fairytales. And there must be an awful lot of people on this earth, who cannot get that simple reality through their skull. For god’s sake, get wise man!
Don't. Hold. Your. Breath.
I am going to the opera next week, to see "Siegfried". The cast features a real god, Odin.
Far out! Our last Cleveland Orchestra concert for this season is a complete performance of Götterdämmerung! I'm not that wild for Wagner, but it's still worth seeing and hearing!
I loved Wagner when I was younger, and I still think his music is wonderful. But I cannot sit through anything as long as most Wagner operas.
Wagnerian operas are notorious for being long-winded and not at all structured like most Viennese or Italian operas. Still, it's worth experiencing at least once, though generally, Der Ring Ohne Worte holds me as it comes to Wagner.
You mean the ring without all of those people yakking constantly, but very very very slowly, and taking forever to say it.
As Mark Twain didn’t actually say, Wagner is much better than he sounds. The last one I was able to sit through was the Flying Dutchman, and even that I didn’t make it to the end.
Two years ago, I saw one of my favorite operas, cosi fan Tutte. I’ll see it almost anytime it’s performed. But a 3 1/2 to 4 hours, it’s a little too much for me to sit for, either. Give me a nice Janaček. Two hours, fabulous music, and everybody who needs to die is dead.
Janacek, eh? Could I interest you in a little Sinfonietta?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFTv50AoEQ
That first movement with the massed trumpets is just DELICIOUS, as is its mirror in the coda of the last movement. The whole thing is just EXCELLENT.
Ha ha. You said “reliable” evidence. 😜😜😜😜😜
The question here is obvious: Just WHAT JW DIED because of this stupid policy that caused them to rethink their dogma? Or how many died and where did they stand in the JW scheme of things? This stupidity has been adamantine to their cult for over 80 years now, and all of a sudden, they are CLARIFYING their policy?
Shit like this doesn't happen in a vacuum. This needs to be dug into ... with a backhoe!
Probably a very rich donor had died; someone who belong to the JW died and their rich and well connected family is threatened a lawsuit or some other very PUBLIC dressing down, so now the JW is changing their policy. If an average member would have died, I am sure nothing would have changed. Things only change in religions when it effect the elite members of that religion!
“ On Friday, Governing Body member Gerrit Lösch announced that it was now perfectly fine to store your own blood for a future transfusion.”
And…
‘Qui bono?”, Asks Hemant.
Ooohhhh! PIck me! PIck me!!!!!
BLoody hell! I see three things going on here. First, the JW’s are very conscious of their image. They don’t want to appear totally backward in the modern world.* Second, if they are like every other religion, they are hemorrhaging members. It’s one thing to hemorrhage members, it’s quite another thing to have them die off because of an idiotic policy that has absolutely nothing to do with reality. As a rabbi once said to me regarding gay people, “the Torah cannot condemn what the Torah knows nothing about.” to say that the Bible forbid transfusions is, as Hemant notes, simply overlaying whatever the Bible does say with a human directive.
There is a third possibility, of course. Check the stock portfolios of the governing body and see how many of them own shares in blood storage facilities. Or check which of the governing body men might need a blood transfusion, or have a wife or child in need of a blood Transfusion.
But a thought like that would be totally, totally cynical and I would never express a totally cynical thought whenever it comes to conservative religion.
*a day late, and a genuine Creflo Dollar short.
If they’re hemorrhaging (members), they need that blood, stat! Their (quack religious) body will die without it. Not really a bad thing IMHO.
Are you washed in the blood of the lamb? Cause that’s OK.
Nah, I use a lovely blue lavender body wash. I don’t wish to smell like rotted meat.
Just dab a little bit behind your ears. Think of the Republican men that you’ll attract.
Ugh. More likely I’d attract flies. Which come to think of it, would be preferable.
If JWs down't want to appear totally backward, they picked one hell of a hill to die on, and now, of course, they've all but decided that the hill isn't worth the fuss. This just makes me wonder all the more what is at the root of this decision.
This matter isn't over by a long shot.
This morning, Trump said he is thinking of winding down the attacks on Iran.
Looks as though this has pissed off the Israelis:
'Israeli defence minister Israel Katz said that strikes will “intensify” in the next week, with a “significant” rise in attacks.'
The real question, how tightly has Netanyahu got Trump by the ballocks?
Depends on how many of the Epstein files he's got in his back pocket.
Not as tightly as Putin. Our attacks on Iran will stop when Putin says so.
I see the problem here. Do you think that he has them!
I'm perfectly fine with adults doing whatever silly shit they want with their own bodies. Children shouldn't be subject to fuckwittery based on their parents' mythology cosplaying.
My step daughter is JW from birth. Her father is not and we decided a long time ago (she's 35 now) that if a life threatening emergency happens with her, she's getting blood. I couldn't stand there a watch one of my children die over something stupid. And we told her this.
"My step daughter is JW from birth"? Is it an hereditary condition?
Sadly, all but 100% of religion IS hereditary, though DNA has NOTHING to do with it. Then again, you knew that! 😁
"𝑇ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑖𝑠𝑛’𝑡 𝑎 𝑐𝑙𝑎𝑟𝑖𝑓𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑜𝑓 𝐺𝑜𝑑’𝑠 𝑊𝑜𝑟𝑑. 𝑇ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑖𝑠 𝑎 𝑚𝑎𝑛-𝑚𝑎𝑑𝑒 𝑑𝑒𝑐𝑖𝑠𝑖𝑜𝑛—𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑑 𝑏𝑦 𝑎 𝑔𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑝 𝑜𝑓 𝑚𝑒𝑛—"
... playing God.
No, no...not playing God. Inspired by God. They prayed mightily and God led them to this decision. God is in charge.
OT: Another DugHead was arrested for child endangerment.
"Joseph Garrett Duggar, 31, is facing new charges out of Tontitown, Arkansas. According to the Washington County Detention Center’s inmate roster, he’s facing charges of false imprisonment in the second degree and endangering the welfare of a minor in the second degree.
Online jail records also show his wife, Kendra Duggar, is facing charges of false imprisonment in the second degree and endangering the welfare of a minor in the second degree. She was booked into the Washington County Detention Center and released on $1,470 bond.
Reportedly, when police officers arrived to arrest Joseph, they found padlocks on all the children’s doors, locking them from the inside, which would make it impossible to exit in the event of a fire or other emergency."
More here. URL: https://www.4029tv.com/article/joseph-duggar-molestation-charge/70794329
Have to wonder just WHEN it will be when Joe Q. Public finally gets what Christopher Hitchens said over a decade ago:
Religion. Poisons. EVERYTHING.
We got the news about Joeseph's kiddie-diddling a couple days ago... but the bit about the door locks is new, I think. That adds a whole new level of squick to this story... and places his own children squarely in the pool of other potential (read that: 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘳𝘦𝘥𝘪𝘣𝘭𝘺 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦𝘭𝘺) victims.
Probably also making it impossible to escape if daddy had a need to visit one of his children at night.
I never knew the previous residents of the house we now occupy, but when we moved in, there were a couple of bedrooms with slide bolts on the outside and one with a hasp and staple for a padlock. I don't know if this was to keep children from entering the rooms or prevent them from getting out, but I removed them all immediately. Still creeps me out.
Funny how these ultra-hard-line religious groups dance around their own theology. They claim their lord's word is perfect and immutable, subject only to a single authoritative interpretation... then just change it whenever it's convenient for the holy men in charge, to make it seem that they're joining the rest of us in modernity, or because they or someone whose money they care deeply about needed something the old dogma prohibited... and then they insist that, no, 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 was 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 the perfect, immutable word of the lord, and the 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘷𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴 interpretation was wrong. But this time we've got it 𝘵𝘰𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 right, see? It'll 𝘯𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳 change again. We 𝘴𝘸𝘦𝘢𝘳! No looking behind our backs for crossed fingers!
The gospels have multiple stories of Jesus placing human need and well-being before "The Law".
So the prohibition makes no sense even if you accept the idea that an Iron Age scribe or priest was thinking of 19th century medical techniques that had not been invented yet.
One springs to mind: If someone were drowning on the Sabbath, would it be a sin to throw him a lifeline?
https://preview.redd.it/mormon-ewoks-v0-7ajgevq2i1o61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=859945162ef9738b43142b575d4f5fe9c98e7c86