Mixing religion and government is the same terrible idea it has always been. The founders did not give religion a role to play in the governance of their new country, and that was not an accidental omission. As stupid as this decision is, I doubt it's going to make much of a difference, and may actually accelerate the exodus from organized religion. Young people tend to be far more tolerant than their elders. Few things ever better demonstrated the disconnect between religion and morality quite like the evangelicals pledging their unconditional love for the most grotesquely immoral President in American history.
And yet they still will. Any pushback, especailly from people and organizations they have already labeled as "evil", will be met with cries of persecution. Even when it comes from Christians who aren't extreme far right politically. As an example, look at the howls of rage and even calls for deportation in response to Bishop Budde. Remember her? She just suggested that Trump should try to show a bit of kindness and mercy to millions of vulnerable people.
Behold the ever-expanding theofascist kleptocracy. They get to collect and distribute tithes and pay no taxes. I keep saying this - we are now 2 nations sharing the same real estate. The American Experiment has been rent asunder and I just don't see how to put it back together.
Revolution by the sane people might help. On the other hand, sane people seldom start a revolution, they plan their changes so that things fit together to achieve their goals. I hope or dream.
Yep. We live in an authoritarian state. It’s not coming, it’s here. Revolution is the only hope, but civil war is more likely as too many are in a CULT.
Just look at yesterday’s article where the violent anti-LGBTQ church exclaimed that if other Christian’s aren’t just as cruel as they are, they aren’t real Christians.
"Secular non-profits, however, will still be prohibited from doing what churches are apparently now allowed to do."
Secular non-profits have a way out. They can declare themselves affiliated to a secular religious organization like the TST, and turn the tables.
"favoring some religions over others"
Saying that while favoring religion over secularism, which is against the US constitution. Seriously, how some judges* or lawyers** manage to get their diplomas ?
So then churches aren’t really 501(c)(3)s. If they don’t have to follow the rules of that designation, then they aren’t a part of it. Create a new designation for them and new rules. That way they cannot cry that they’re being targeted by their loss of privileges.
I may be putting the cart before the horse, but this is the way I keep my hope alive, but once we’ve thrown off this regime we will have to start from scratch and correct all the loopholes and freeways Trump and friends have taken advantage of to destroy our constitution. When it is all over, we will correct the church state separation issue, we will correct the power consolidation, and all the other little things, the camel’s noses and inches surrendered, that have been killing us through the thousand cuts to build a society in the USA that will be survivable. When it is all said and done, we can make it better than it was before. Give women, people of color, and the LGBTQ community the equity they deserve, need, and want. This is what I’m fighting for. And this is what they are desperately fighting against. We can win. We should win. We cannot afford to lose.
If you don't understand the implications here, then I hope you are flexible because even the plastic cuffs are uncomfortable. This country is moving towards a very specific way of law enforcement and there are eyes everywhere, be careful. Every one of you.
Okay, then- all you so-called moderate and progressive Christians out there, we've just arrived at 𝘱𝘶𝘵 𝘶𝘱 𝘰𝘳 𝘴𝘩𝘶𝘵 𝘶𝘱 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦. Last stop on the line; all passengers must disembark. Either you use your own pulpits to speak out and support Democrats, just as loudly and aggressively as conservative churches have been doing for decades to benefit Republicans, or we'll have no choice but to assume you're on the 𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 side of this culture war. You don't have any reasonable excuse to stay uninvolved anymore.
Just another thing proving that the republicans cannot win elections without gaming the system, in other words cheating. The last election they had to stoop to outright election fraud, interference, payoffs, and manipulation to win. All the red states are horrendously gerrymandered. Not to mention the decades long manipulation of the rural media broadcasting, progressively getting more and more radicalized. Intentionally restricting upgrading and adding access to networks so that the right wing media is all that’s available. There are still people today talking about their rural homes don’t have full access to all television broadcasts, the only channel that gets decent reception is Fox, and radio is limited on FM and the AM band talk radio is decidedly right leaning. All of this is by design.
And now, these folks are being fed the lie that conservatism and right wing politics is god ordained and the left are the devil with the government’s approval.
Right wing policies are resoundingly unpopular. Their track record would be a clue, if the public had real access to it without having to jump through expensive hoops, or maybe even reported on by functional journalists. The Republican Party is already a minority with outsized power and it’s only going to get worse.
The payoffs is one that really gets to me. Our Sec. of State got a bill passed that would outlaw "Zuckerbucks" (no idea how that would actually work or what he's intending with that) without any mention of Musk directly paying people to vote.
"There were plenty of times tax exemptions were used in ancient Egypt as a political maneuver,” says Moreno Garcia. “Throughout history, pharaohs consistently issued decrees saying certain individuals or temples did not have to pay taxes."
And a handy “lens of religious faith” qualification allowing them to deny the protection to anyone they don’t like, much like the “legitimate religion” exclusion used to justify denying religious protections to Satanists and other disfavored groups. “That’s not a real religion.”
Because, you know, it really matters which made-up bullshit you choose to believe.
I once tried to find out how many churches had lost their tax-exempt status because of political endorsements, could only find one or two. I don't know how things work in the US but it seems to me that if you want to endorse candidates and be a 501 you shouldn't be able to. And lots of people seem to be getting quite upset about it judging by the news stories, because that one I posted below is not the only one. We should be taxing churches anyway, given that charitable work seems quite negligible for many of them.
From what I remember of our church, people who did stuff like taking poor kids shopping for school supplies had to raise their own money. Sometimes the church would match what was raised, but it was never that much, and it was only once a year.
Our youth group was always holding car washes and bake sales to fund our projects of getting a little food to poor people in our county, which the church again would match sometimes, but not consistently. A year after Reagan rose to power, both the youth group and the people who had done the back-to-school shopping with the poor kids were gone, and there was a new sheriff, uhm, preacher in town.
And the new Satan was "those thrice-damned liberals in Washington" as thundering sermons proclaimed from the pulpit. (Uh, dude, Reagan is your POTUS. Guess you mean all those benighted souls who are still trying to protect the poor and vulnerable).
Ah, the 80's. When we thought Dan Quayle was our worst nightmare.
This is what makes the whole thing concerning. The Danger Yam Regime is now openly using the same mental gymnastices to reinterpret laws in their favor as they do with the Bible. This is not the first time they have done it, and it won't be the last. They are also likely to change their interpretation depending on who they want it to apply to. Black evangelical church endorses a Democrat? Politicking. White evangelical church endorses a Trumpublican? "Family discussion about candidates".
I think Hemant's conclusion that this backtracking by the I.R.S. and the courts results ultimately in a new funding channel for right-wing conservatives, and that the churches benefiting from this constitutional outrage won't just be endorsing candidates in an effort to obtain new converts for their religion or to comfort their existing membership.
"Pastors can now promote candidates without losing their tax exemptions---
Why do pastors want to avoid paying their taxes? Christians are told to obey all earthly laws and authorities in their own book. This INCLUDES paying what you owe.
"Pay your taxes, too, for these same reasons. For government workers need to be paid. They are serving God in what they do. Give to everyone what you owe them: Pay your taxes and government fees to those who collect them, and give respect and honor to those who are in authority."
-- Romans 13:6-7 NLT
(For context on "for these same reasons," see Romans 13:1-5 NLT)
Their eyes slide right past those verses when they are reading. Their cherry-picking practice helps them avoid uncomfortable passages that are at odds with their Christian Fucking Privilege.
Or the tale of Lot and his daughters. Or the mauling of 42 children by bears. Or the scripture on how to make "unfaithful wives" miscarry. Or how pregnant women are cut open by swords by an invading army sent by YHVH. Or...well, you get the idea.
The more fundamentalists the church, the less likely this verse among a whole bunch of verses are never read.
If fact the more fundamental the church, the less likely (to non existent) that the clergy would encourage the members of the church to read the bible on their own from cover to cover. That might cause the members of the church to come to different conclusions than what the clergy wants (it affect the clergy’s power and influence). That is the reason that clergy tell it’s members what verses to read and how to “interpret”them, so the clergy can maintain complete control and power over the church members and society as a whole.
Many of them do want members to read the entire Bible. They set it up as a year long daily bit at a time thing, with study guides to show them how to ignore the inconvenient shit.
What you say is very true, but the clergy telling the church members how they should interpret the various verses to me defeats the whole point of reading the bible at all. Then again, I am not a Christian Nationalist redneck. Rednecks whose only knowledge is how to have sex with barnyard animals and to cook roadkill.
I think too many of these hotshot preachers get a kick out of thumbing their noses at the government, especially since, at least on paper, it is SUPPOSED to be SECULAR, godless, and independent of religion. Of course, they want to CHANGE that status and put their own stamp on how things are run, preferably with themselves in the Catbird Seat.
And this is just one more step on the road to fulfilling that pipe dream.
Mixing religion and government is the same terrible idea it has always been. The founders did not give religion a role to play in the governance of their new country, and that was not an accidental omission. As stupid as this decision is, I doubt it's going to make much of a difference, and may actually accelerate the exodus from organized religion. Young people tend to be far more tolerant than their elders. Few things ever better demonstrated the disconnect between religion and morality quite like the evangelicals pledging their unconditional love for the most grotesquely immoral President in American history.
"American history" Including all the Americas not only the United States.
In God We Trust?
"I only need to be a dictator for one day."
--Donald Trump
Dictatorforadayshow.com
𝐼𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒’𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑠𝑖𝑙𝑣𝑒𝑟 𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠, 𝑖𝑡’𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑟𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡-𝑤𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑝𝑎𝑠𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑠 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑎𝑙𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑑𝑦 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑚𝑜𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑑𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑠 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑢𝑙𝑝𝑖𝑡 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑛𝑜 𝑙𝑜𝑛𝑔𝑒𝑟 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑏𝑒 𝑚𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑦𝑟𝑠 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑒 𝑑𝑜𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑖𝑡.
And yet they still will. Any pushback, especailly from people and organizations they have already labeled as "evil", will be met with cries of persecution. Even when it comes from Christians who aren't extreme far right politically. As an example, look at the howls of rage and even calls for deportation in response to Bishop Budde. Remember her? She just suggested that Trump should try to show a bit of kindness and mercy to millions of vulnerable people.
Behold the ever-expanding theofascist kleptocracy. They get to collect and distribute tithes and pay no taxes. I keep saying this - we are now 2 nations sharing the same real estate. The American Experiment has been rent asunder and I just don't see how to put it back together.
Revolution by the sane people might help. On the other hand, sane people seldom start a revolution, they plan their changes so that things fit together to achieve their goals. I hope or dream.
Yep. We live in an authoritarian state. It’s not coming, it’s here. Revolution is the only hope, but civil war is more likely as too many are in a CULT.
Just look at yesterday’s article where the violent anti-LGBTQ church exclaimed that if other Christian’s aren’t just as cruel as they are, they aren’t real Christians.
Christian is just another word for goddamm fucking self-righteous arrogant loudmouth asshole.
I am surprised that the rednecks did not demand that Bishop Budde to be sent to the Everglades prison, along with everyone else they (rednecks) hate.
"Secular non-profits, however, will still be prohibited from doing what churches are apparently now allowed to do."
Secular non-profits have a way out. They can declare themselves affiliated to a secular religious organization like the TST, and turn the tables.
"favoring some religions over others"
Saying that while favoring religion over secularism, which is against the US constitution. Seriously, how some judges* or lawyers** manage to get their diplomas ?
* Cannon fodder
** Baba Myagat
Congratulations. You've openly confessed that your house of god is a den of thieves.
So then churches aren’t really 501(c)(3)s. If they don’t have to follow the rules of that designation, then they aren’t a part of it. Create a new designation for them and new rules. That way they cannot cry that they’re being targeted by their loss of privileges.
I may be putting the cart before the horse, but this is the way I keep my hope alive, but once we’ve thrown off this regime we will have to start from scratch and correct all the loopholes and freeways Trump and friends have taken advantage of to destroy our constitution. When it is all over, we will correct the church state separation issue, we will correct the power consolidation, and all the other little things, the camel’s noses and inches surrendered, that have been killing us through the thousand cuts to build a society in the USA that will be survivable. When it is all said and done, we can make it better than it was before. Give women, people of color, and the LGBTQ community the equity they deserve, need, and want. This is what I’m fighting for. And this is what they are desperately fighting against. We can win. We should win. We cannot afford to lose.
The alternative would be horrendous for your daughters.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2025/jul/08/bayeux-tapestry-to-return-to-britain-for-first-time-in-900-years
Seen this?
Now, yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcTQCNntGEs
Jesus, that's a bit of a bloody stretch..😁
It's simple...
https://youtu.be/9lru1Qxc1l8
If you don't understand the implications here, then I hope you are flexible because even the plastic cuffs are uncomfortable. This country is moving towards a very specific way of law enforcement and there are eyes everywhere, be careful. Every one of you.
"This country is moving towards a very specific way of law enforcement..."
Yeah. It's called a Police State.
Okay, then- all you so-called moderate and progressive Christians out there, we've just arrived at 𝘱𝘶𝘵 𝘶𝘱 𝘰𝘳 𝘴𝘩𝘶𝘵 𝘶𝘱 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦. Last stop on the line; all passengers must disembark. Either you use your own pulpits to speak out and support Democrats, just as loudly and aggressively as conservative churches have been doing for decades to benefit Republicans, or we'll have no choice but to assume you're on the 𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 side of this culture war. You don't have any reasonable excuse to stay uninvolved anymore.
Xtians: “ but, but, both sides. NALT!!!”
Or the immune system. Or teachers of law in Nigeria. :)
(I'm thinking that in this case, NALT is Not All Like That)
Just another thing proving that the republicans cannot win elections without gaming the system, in other words cheating. The last election they had to stoop to outright election fraud, interference, payoffs, and manipulation to win. All the red states are horrendously gerrymandered. Not to mention the decades long manipulation of the rural media broadcasting, progressively getting more and more radicalized. Intentionally restricting upgrading and adding access to networks so that the right wing media is all that’s available. There are still people today talking about their rural homes don’t have full access to all television broadcasts, the only channel that gets decent reception is Fox, and radio is limited on FM and the AM band talk radio is decidedly right leaning. All of this is by design.
And now, these folks are being fed the lie that conservatism and right wing politics is god ordained and the left are the devil with the government’s approval.
Right wing policies are resoundingly unpopular. Their track record would be a clue, if the public had real access to it without having to jump through expensive hoops, or maybe even reported on by functional journalists. The Republican Party is already a minority with outsized power and it’s only going to get worse.
The payoffs is one that really gets to me. Our Sec. of State got a bill passed that would outlaw "Zuckerbucks" (no idea how that would actually work or what he's intending with that) without any mention of Musk directly paying people to vote.
They are pushing this through as part of #Project2025!!! They need to start paying fkn TAXES!!!
#TaxTheChurches #TaxTheChurches
#TaxTheChurches #TaxTheChurches
#TaxTheChurches #TaxTheChurches
#TaxTheChurches #TaxTheChurches
#TaxTheChurches #TaxTheChurches
Oh, but you just CAN'T tax the churches! Why ... that would be ...
PERSECUTION!!! 😱
"There were plenty of times tax exemptions were used in ancient Egypt as a political maneuver,” says Moreno Garcia. “Throughout history, pharaohs consistently issued decrees saying certain individuals or temples did not have to pay taxes."
Source (at the end) :
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/stressed-about-taxes-blame-the-ancient-egyptians-180984059/
It didn't end well, each and every time, with Pharaohs battling for supremacy with the clergy of the most favored god du jour.
Should we tax the churches? ; )
Now WHY would you say something silly like that. Besides, the churches wouldn't LIKE being taxed! No, they wouldn't like that at all! OHMYGOODNESS! 🤪
Not gonna happen. Not gonna happen.
Not gonna happen. Not gonna happen.
Not gonna happen. Not gonna happen.
Not gonna happen. Not gonna happen.
Not gonna happen. Not gonna happen.
And a handy “lens of religious faith” qualification allowing them to deny the protection to anyone they don’t like, much like the “legitimate religion” exclusion used to justify denying religious protections to Satanists and other disfavored groups. “That’s not a real religion.”
Because, you know, it really matters which made-up bullshit you choose to believe.
"lens of religious faith" simply means make sure to include the magic words "White Trumpublican Jesus said so" and you'll be just fine.
I once tried to find out how many churches had lost their tax-exempt status because of political endorsements, could only find one or two. I don't know how things work in the US but it seems to me that if you want to endorse candidates and be a 501 you shouldn't be able to. And lots of people seem to be getting quite upset about it judging by the news stories, because that one I posted below is not the only one. We should be taxing churches anyway, given that charitable work seems quite negligible for many of them.
From what I remember of our church, people who did stuff like taking poor kids shopping for school supplies had to raise their own money. Sometimes the church would match what was raised, but it was never that much, and it was only once a year.
Our youth group was always holding car washes and bake sales to fund our projects of getting a little food to poor people in our county, which the church again would match sometimes, but not consistently. A year after Reagan rose to power, both the youth group and the people who had done the back-to-school shopping with the poor kids were gone, and there was a new sheriff, uhm, preacher in town.
And the new Satan was "those thrice-damned liberals in Washington" as thundering sermons proclaimed from the pulpit. (Uh, dude, Reagan is your POTUS. Guess you mean all those benighted souls who are still trying to protect the poor and vulnerable).
Ah, the 80's. When we thought Dan Quayle was our worst nightmare.
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑦 𝑑𝑖𝑑𝑛’𝑡 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑝𝑜𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑔. 𝐼𝑛𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑎𝑑, 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑑 𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑜𝑟𝑠𝑒𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑠 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑢𝑙𝑝𝑖𝑡 𝑡𝑜 𝑎 “𝑓𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑦 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑐𝑢𝑠𝑠𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑐𝑒𝑟𝑛𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑑𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑠.”
This is what makes the whole thing concerning. The Danger Yam Regime is now openly using the same mental gymnastices to reinterpret laws in their favor as they do with the Bible. This is not the first time they have done it, and it won't be the last. They are also likely to change their interpretation depending on who they want it to apply to. Black evangelical church endorses a Democrat? Politicking. White evangelical church endorses a Trumpublican? "Family discussion about candidates".
I think Hemant's conclusion that this backtracking by the I.R.S. and the courts results ultimately in a new funding channel for right-wing conservatives, and that the churches benefiting from this constitutional outrage won't just be endorsing candidates in an effort to obtain new converts for their religion or to comfort their existing membership.
They'll be funding violence. I'd bet on it.
"Pastors can now promote candidates without losing their tax exemptions---
Why do pastors want to avoid paying their taxes? Christians are told to obey all earthly laws and authorities in their own book. This INCLUDES paying what you owe.
"Pay your taxes, too, for these same reasons. For government workers need to be paid. They are serving God in what they do. Give to everyone what you owe them: Pay your taxes and government fees to those who collect them, and give respect and honor to those who are in authority."
-- Romans 13:6-7 NLT
(For context on "for these same reasons," see Romans 13:1-5 NLT)
Their eyes slide right past those verses when they are reading. Their cherry-picking practice helps them avoid uncomfortable passages that are at odds with their Christian Fucking Privilege.
Bet this scripture never turns up in Sunday sermons or bible study.
No more often than Ezekiel 23:20 does.
Or the tale of Lot and his daughters. Or the mauling of 42 children by bears. Or the scripture on how to make "unfaithful wives" miscarry. Or how pregnant women are cut open by swords by an invading army sent by YHVH. Or...well, you get the idea.
The more fundamentalists the church, the less likely this verse among a whole bunch of verses are never read.
If fact the more fundamental the church, the less likely (to non existent) that the clergy would encourage the members of the church to read the bible on their own from cover to cover. That might cause the members of the church to come to different conclusions than what the clergy wants (it affect the clergy’s power and influence). That is the reason that clergy tell it’s members what verses to read and how to “interpret”them, so the clergy can maintain complete control and power over the church members and society as a whole.
Many of them do want members to read the entire Bible. They set it up as a year long daily bit at a time thing, with study guides to show them how to ignore the inconvenient shit.
What you say is very true, but the clergy telling the church members how they should interpret the various verses to me defeats the whole point of reading the bible at all. Then again, I am not a Christian Nationalist redneck. Rednecks whose only knowledge is how to have sex with barnyard animals and to cook roadkill.
I've never seen it there.
I think too many of these hotshot preachers get a kick out of thumbing their noses at the government, especially since, at least on paper, it is SUPPOSED to be SECULAR, godless, and independent of religion. Of course, they want to CHANGE that status and put their own stamp on how things are run, preferably with themselves in the Catbird Seat.
And this is just one more step on the road to fulfilling that pipe dream.
They didn't like the government either when it was polytheistic and syncretic.
OK, TST. Time to throw your hat in the ring.
GMTA, your comment appeared after I posted mine (3 minutes after your).
We are an amazing group. :)