I think it's more insidious and they are just arguing in bad faith because they know that half the voting populace is idiots who just like getting their ears tickled and this is the vibe they are into right now
I agree. I was just snarking. Redefining words is one of their MOs. I donβt think they are interested in honest discussion. If they were, they wouldnβt redefine words.
Iβm also fond of pointing out that most of the secularists in the US are Christians. Baptists donβt want the government to be Catholic and vice versa.
Vance needs a lesson as to just who the 7 key founders were that had the greatest influence on our form of government. 5 Deists, 1 mostly unobservant Christian and 1 orthodox Christian. That's it.
And even if they were deeply religious, what matters far more is what they actually wrote into the constitution. Where they were very strict that there would not be an established church in the new state, that there would be no religious requirements for public office holders, that there would be a separation of church and state.
They never mention Section III of Article VI that bans religious tests for holding public office in the United States. That provision is a very strange thing to include in the foundational document of a country whose founders intended to include religion in government. Article VI also predates the Bill of Rights which says all you need to know about how the founders felt about the issue.
Christianity is not 1 religion. It is a conglomeration of related but mostly mutually-exclusive sects under a banner. JD Couchmolester is a convert to the RCC. The translation of the decalogue in their bible is substantially different from that in the KJ, NSRV, the JW translation, and the Jewish Study bible. Yet it is always the KJ which is enshrined by these halfwits.
I have long felt the staggering number of Christian tribes should be a far bigger problem for believers than it is. It speaks to a divine being who supposedly willed the universe into existence, but when it came to the most important message imaginable . . . couldn't make himself understood.
All seeing, all knowing, and all powerful and canβt even get all the many Christian tribes to sing from the same hymnal or agree to use the one and only bibleβ¦
JD Vance, Christian Apologist ... WANNABE. Add to that a man who clearly has no understanding of how the minority might feel about constantly being confronted with a proselytizing faith that, oh, by the way, wants to superimpose itself on our democracy. Vance's lame explanations are of the same stripe as what we saw yesterday when Clayton and Blanche were in front of Congressional committees, playing Duck, Dodge, and Hyde with their ... gad, I can hardly call them "responses" to the questions posed to them.
And a considerable chunk of me wishes that SOME interviewer, getting this same crap from some Republican, would simply say, "STOP. You are not answering the question. You are playing games because you don't want to upset Donald Trump. If you can't be bothered to give a straight answer to a straight question, WHY SHOULD I BOTHER TALKING TO YOU AT ALL?"
Would be nice, wouldn't it.
P.S.: I'm going to be outta here for a little bit, back in a couple hours. Y'all have fun!
Y'all or you all is already redundant since you can mean a single individual or a group. All y'all or all you all is doubly redundant and just pains me to read or hear.
Vance has a remarkable talent for infuriating just about every group he speaks to. Liberal over-reach in Texas? You would have to be out of your mind to make that claim. Conservative Christians can NEVER stop trying to force their religion into the public schools, paid for with everyoneβs tax dollars. They would go out of their tiny little minds at the mere suggestion any religion other than their own be represented. Christians know theyβre losing the long game so they engage in a desperate attempt to get government to backstop their religion. It wonβt work. They do, however, excel at playing the poor, persecuted victims of the Godless left.
He is the AntiCharisma. Were he to land the big chair after tRump, I could see him unintentionally hammering a wooden stake through the heart of the MAGA coalition.
We should put that to the test. Someone should make sure that the Seven Tenets of the Satanic Temple are prominently displayed wherever he goes. See how long before he is offended.
I can believe him when he says that he would not be offended. But he'd feel the need to play offended, because in his mind he needs to play to the base.
Trump 'collects' the base with ease (apologies, I can't think of a better phrase), but everyone else will have to work at it. Which means that you'll see all of the princelings like Vance, like Rubio, like ... maybe even one of the junior Trumps make moves which they think will play to the various influential groups of the base.
I'm positive on Vance giving long-form interviews like this...because I think they reduce his chance of being elected President. He's does "try to please everyone" so badly that, after events like this, nobody considers him their choice. Evangelicals will see his responses as insufficiently supportive, Catholics will see it as an obvious sell-out, and nones will see it as naive idiocy. And you know what? They're all correct.
βVance stated, βI would not be offended if I sat in a classroom as a Christian, or if my kids sat in a classroom as a Christian, and saw, you know, a religious text that wasnβt Christian on the wall.ββ
He might not (as if I would ever believe him after he said on camera with a serious face that he will say anything to get the media to take him seriously) but plenty of other Christians have proven his point wrong. How often have we seen stories about parents flipping their shit over lessons on the five pillars of Islam, or having yoga in gym class, or being exposed to art from Islam on museum field trips or in art textbooks? Iβm calling bullshit.
"I don't think." That's his first problem. The second problem is that he is equating being religious in the public square with the public square πͺπ΅π΄π¦ππ§ being religious. He should ask his wife how it feels to have someone else's religion prominently displayed in government buildings while hers is an afterthought at best.
"At 57:00, Vance stressed, βIf Iβm in a 95% Christian community and my local city council wants to put up a Nativity display on, you know, Christmas Eve, Iβm okay with that.β"
The district where I live is strongly progressive. We chose this district because it has a reputation for being strongly progressive. It is amazingly diverse: pretty much the whole spectrum of religions exists, including those who practice no religion at all; we have a wide range of nationalities and races; we have gay and straight couples; we protect our trans neighbors; we actively protect our immigrant neighbors from ICE.
I put up a crΓ¨che at Christmas. Mary, Joseph, Jesus and the Magi are all dark-skinned. The reason theyβre dark-skinned is because the original Mary, Joseph, Jesus and the Magi were dark-skinned Middle Easterners.
A church in our neighborhood went farther: they placed each member of the Holy Family in a separate cage, with nothing to protect them from the elements.
I love November and December in our district. I love celebrating Diwali, Thanksgiving, the first Sunday in Advent, Hanukkah, Yule, Christmas Eve and Christmas, and New Yearβs (which is what my partner and I celebrate in lieu of December 25: many years ago, I realized I could no longer handle the crassness and the commercialization of Christmas, so I broke with the December 25 tradition. We treat ourselves to a really nice restaurant for Christmas dinner.). Everybody celebrates everybody elseβs holiday, and weβre all cool with it.
One of our neighbors was hard-core MAGA. We came out one morning to find our crΓ¨che has been burned to the ground. Other neighbors came out to find that their Christmas lights had been cut just above the plug which went into the external outlets, so their Christmas decorations were ruined. Ring cameras showed that it was the MAGA neighbor who had done this, but the police said since they werenβt there to witness it, they couldnβt do anything about it. π€¬
Derechos and tornadoes are very common during the late spring and summer where I live. We had four derechos last summer, which knocked out power to the neighborhood. During three of these derechos, our neighbor was out of town. We called to report that our power was out, but we didnβt call in for the MAGA neighbor to report his power was out.
When he returned from his trip, the temperature was already well into the 90s and his house had no power. The food in his refrigerator had exploded. He had to have a hazmat team come in and professionally clean his kitchen and dining room.
This summer, Mr. MAGA moved away. We celebrated his leaving by having a large block party. Since Iβm from the Southwest, I brought in Mexican foods which I had prepared, including mole made from scratch and served with poblanos rellenos. I also made spinach/Swiss cheese enchiladas.
No one held a gun to the head of our MAGA neighbor and told him he had to be a MAGA asshole. He chose to be an asshole on his own volition. He managed to offend just about every single person on our block; and none of us were the least bit sorry to see him move away.
We just hope we have blessed him out of our existence.
And all this time I thought Vance WAS dumb! Now you're telling me he's playing dumb? I thought he was trying to play smart, and failing miserably. And I just have to ask, why are Christians so enamored with the Jewish part of the bible instead of the Christian part?? What a bunch of illiterate hypocrites.
They're enamored of it because "death if you disobey our rules" aligns much better with their hard-right ideas about society than Jesus' hippy dippy help-the-poor stuff.
Vance has no convictions other than Power. The Powerful rule. The meek submit or else.
I mean... he literally serves a man who worships power and money, not God.
He serves a man who plasters his name and graven image everywhere he can.
He serves a man uses the name of God to promote himself while doing things to dishonor God.
He serves a man who spends more time doing literally anything else than setting foot in a church.
He serves a man who has stolen. Stolen money from his own charity. Stolen money from the people who work for him. Stolen money from the taxpayers.
He serves a man who has committed murder.
He serves a man who has dishonored his father and mother with his every word and action and that is a difficult thing to do considering his parents.
He serves a man who has committed adultery multiple times.
He serves a man whose entire being is coveting. Be it coveting attention, coveting goods, coveting wealth. Coveting land. Coveting his neighbor's wife.
Every day, good Christian Vance gets up and goes and carries out the will of a man who treats the commandments he supposedly reveres as a goddamned square of toilet paper.
So fuck you, J.D. Hypocrite.
All you're doing is trying to impose a hellish and damned hierarchy on Americans with yourself on top, and everyone else forced to bow and scrape and accept your shit. You're trying to force your beliefs in power on everyone else denying them the liberty of their faith and conscience and teaching their own children about such personal matters in the name of control.
I think it's more sell-out than dumb. Some fundie right-wing Catholics may think they have an alliance with evangelicals, but pretty sure Vance in this case knows who has the greater political power. He's intentionally not saying anything that might tick them off.
I disagree. I think there's a bit of him which is questioning whether his conversion to catholicism was such a clever move. He tried to do a triangulation between carrying favour with hispanic voters, who are generally conservative (with a small c) and who are often (heritage) catholic, avoiding the 'which-flavour-of-evangelism' to choose quandary and also satisfying some of Thiel's expectations.
I would not be surprised if he was inching away from catholicism in the coming years. (I would also not be surprised if he got himself a blond wife, but that's a different discussion)
To be fair trad caths like Couch Boy are hardline fundamentalist protestants who've given nominal obeisance to Rome because they like the pomp and circumstance.
Furniture connoisseur Vance "played" dumb? Oh, he's not playing at all.
πππ’βππ ππ’π π‘ π‘πππππ πππ ππππππππ πππ πππππππππ ππ‘ π€ππ‘β π πππ’πππππ π.
Mr Vance:
"Secular" means neutrality towards religion, not absence of religion.
Itβs almost like English isnβt their native tongue.
I think it's more insidious and they are just arguing in bad faith because they know that half the voting populace is idiots who just like getting their ears tickled and this is the vibe they are into right now
I agree. I was just snarking. Redefining words is one of their MOs. I donβt think they are interested in honest discussion. If they were, they wouldnβt redefine words.
Iβm also fond of pointing out that most of the secularists in the US are Christians. Baptists donβt want the government to be Catholic and vice versa.
Generations of Christian homeschooling will do that.
Vance needs a lesson as to just who the 7 key founders were that had the greatest influence on our form of government. 5 Deists, 1 mostly unobservant Christian and 1 orthodox Christian. That's it.
Not exactly overwhelming Christian numbers.
And even if they were deeply religious, what matters far more is what they actually wrote into the constitution. Where they were very strict that there would not be an established church in the new state, that there would be no religious requirements for public office holders, that there would be a separation of church and state.
They never mention Section III of Article VI that bans religious tests for holding public office in the United States. That provision is a very strange thing to include in the foundational document of a country whose founders intended to include religion in government. Article VI also predates the Bill of Rights which says all you need to know about how the founders felt about the issue.
And they stay as far as they can from Article XI in the Treaty With Tripoli. That one has them shouting I CANβT HEAR YOU! LALALALA!
Christianity is not 1 religion. It is a conglomeration of related but mostly mutually-exclusive sects under a banner. JD Couchmolester is a convert to the RCC. The translation of the decalogue in their bible is substantially different from that in the KJ, NSRV, the JW translation, and the Jewish Study bible. Yet it is always the KJ which is enshrined by these halfwits.
I have long felt the staggering number of Christian tribes should be a far bigger problem for believers than it is. It speaks to a divine being who supposedly willed the universe into existence, but when it came to the most important message imaginable . . . couldn't make himself understood.
All seeing, all knowing, and all powerful and canβt even get all the many Christian tribes to sing from the same hymnal or agree to use the one and only bibleβ¦
Just like his amoral boss, facts are nothing more than an inconvenience. Rogan should have asked Vance why his boss has broken so many of the TCs.
JD Vance, Christian Apologist ... WANNABE. Add to that a man who clearly has no understanding of how the minority might feel about constantly being confronted with a proselytizing faith that, oh, by the way, wants to superimpose itself on our democracy. Vance's lame explanations are of the same stripe as what we saw yesterday when Clayton and Blanche were in front of Congressional committees, playing Duck, Dodge, and Hyde with their ... gad, I can hardly call them "responses" to the questions posed to them.
And a considerable chunk of me wishes that SOME interviewer, getting this same crap from some Republican, would simply say, "STOP. You are not answering the question. You are playing games because you don't want to upset Donald Trump. If you can't be bothered to give a straight answer to a straight question, WHY SHOULD I BOTHER TALKING TO YOU AT ALL?"
Would be nice, wouldn't it.
P.S.: I'm going to be outta here for a little bit, back in a couple hours. Y'all have fun!
Y'all? Y'all??
At least it wasn't 'guys' .....
:-)
At least it wasn't "all y'all".
Seth Andrews has been known to go there, and I can't bring myself to object.
Y'all or you all is already redundant since you can mean a single individual or a group. All y'all or all you all is doubly redundant and just pains me to read or hear.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/you
One that I hate reading is βhere! Here!β
I always respond with βwhere, where?β
Vance has a remarkable talent for infuriating just about every group he speaks to. Liberal over-reach in Texas? You would have to be out of your mind to make that claim. Conservative Christians can NEVER stop trying to force their religion into the public schools, paid for with everyoneβs tax dollars. They would go out of their tiny little minds at the mere suggestion any religion other than their own be represented. Christians know theyβre losing the long game so they engage in a desperate attempt to get government to backstop their religion. It wonβt work. They do, however, excel at playing the poor, persecuted victims of the Godless left.
He is the AntiCharisma. Were he to land the big chair after tRump, I could see him unintentionally hammering a wooden stake through the heart of the MAGA coalition.
If it comes down to Harris vs. Vance, Asteroid-hits-the-Earth wins the election.
If the Democratic party is stupid enough to run Kamala Harris again I'm moving to Ireland.
βπΌ π€ππ’ππ πππ‘ ππ ππππππππ ππ πΌ π ππ‘ ππ π ππππ π ππππ ππ π πΆβπππ π‘πππ, ππ ππ ππ¦ ππππ π ππ‘ ππ π ππππ π ππππ ππ π πΆβπππ π‘πππ, πππ π ππ€, π¦ππ’ ππππ€, π ππππππππ’π π‘ππ₯π‘ π‘βππ‘ π€ππ πβπ‘ πΆβπππ π‘πππ ππ π‘βπ π€πππ.β
We should put that to the test. Someone should make sure that the Seven Tenets of the Satanic Temple are prominently displayed wherever he goes. See how long before he is offended.
Vance would LOSE ... HIS ... SHIT!!!
I can believe him when he says that he would not be offended. But he'd feel the need to play offended, because in his mind he needs to play to the base.
Trump 'collects' the base with ease (apologies, I can't think of a better phrase), but everyone else will have to work at it. Which means that you'll see all of the princelings like Vance, like Rubio, like ... maybe even one of the junior Trumps make moves which they think will play to the various influential groups of the base.
I'm positive on Vance giving long-form interviews like this...because I think they reduce his chance of being elected President. He's does "try to please everyone" so badly that, after events like this, nobody considers him their choice. Evangelicals will see his responses as insufficiently supportive, Catholics will see it as an obvious sell-out, and nones will see it as naive idiocy. And you know what? They're all correct.
Trump named Vance as the heir apparent of MAGA. MAGA is NOGO on Vance. They hate him.
When Trump is gone, his cult goes with him.
βJ.D. Vance played dumbβ
He wasnβt playing.
ETA: Dang, NOGODZ beat me by 15 minutes.
GMTA :)
βVance stated, βI would not be offended if I sat in a classroom as a Christian, or if my kids sat in a classroom as a Christian, and saw, you know, a religious text that wasnβt Christian on the wall.ββ
He might not (as if I would ever believe him after he said on camera with a serious face that he will say anything to get the media to take him seriously) but plenty of other Christians have proven his point wrong. How often have we seen stories about parents flipping their shit over lessons on the five pillars of Islam, or having yoga in gym class, or being exposed to art from Islam on museum field trips or in art textbooks? Iβm calling bullshit.
Everything he says is bullshit including him telling you his name.
Well he is a Catholic, which according to protestants means he goes to hell when he dies - so there is that. :)
βπΌ πππ π πππβπ‘ π‘βπππ π‘βππ‘ π‘βπ ππ₯ππππ‘ππ‘πππ π βππ’ππ ππ π‘βππ‘ π€π π‘πππ ππππππππ’π ππππππ π‘βππ¦βππ πππ‘ πππππ€ππ π‘π ππ ππππππππ’π ππ π‘βπ ππ’ππππ π ππ’πππ.β
"I don't think." That's his first problem. The second problem is that he is equating being religious in the public square with the public square πͺπ΅π΄π¦ππ§ being religious. He should ask his wife how it feels to have someone else's religion prominently displayed in government buildings while hers is an afterthought at best.
"At 57:00, Vance stressed, βIf Iβm in a 95% Christian community and my local city council wants to put up a Nativity display on, you know, Christmas Eve, Iβm okay with that.β"
The district where I live is strongly progressive. We chose this district because it has a reputation for being strongly progressive. It is amazingly diverse: pretty much the whole spectrum of religions exists, including those who practice no religion at all; we have a wide range of nationalities and races; we have gay and straight couples; we protect our trans neighbors; we actively protect our immigrant neighbors from ICE.
I put up a crΓ¨che at Christmas. Mary, Joseph, Jesus and the Magi are all dark-skinned. The reason theyβre dark-skinned is because the original Mary, Joseph, Jesus and the Magi were dark-skinned Middle Easterners.
A church in our neighborhood went farther: they placed each member of the Holy Family in a separate cage, with nothing to protect them from the elements.
I love November and December in our district. I love celebrating Diwali, Thanksgiving, the first Sunday in Advent, Hanukkah, Yule, Christmas Eve and Christmas, and New Yearβs (which is what my partner and I celebrate in lieu of December 25: many years ago, I realized I could no longer handle the crassness and the commercialization of Christmas, so I broke with the December 25 tradition. We treat ourselves to a really nice restaurant for Christmas dinner.). Everybody celebrates everybody elseβs holiday, and weβre all cool with it.
One of our neighbors was hard-core MAGA. We came out one morning to find our crΓ¨che has been burned to the ground. Other neighbors came out to find that their Christmas lights had been cut just above the plug which went into the external outlets, so their Christmas decorations were ruined. Ring cameras showed that it was the MAGA neighbor who had done this, but the police said since they werenβt there to witness it, they couldnβt do anything about it. π€¬
Derechos and tornadoes are very common during the late spring and summer where I live. We had four derechos last summer, which knocked out power to the neighborhood. During three of these derechos, our neighbor was out of town. We called to report that our power was out, but we didnβt call in for the MAGA neighbor to report his power was out.
When he returned from his trip, the temperature was already well into the 90s and his house had no power. The food in his refrigerator had exploded. He had to have a hazmat team come in and professionally clean his kitchen and dining room.
This summer, Mr. MAGA moved away. We celebrated his leaving by having a large block party. Since Iβm from the Southwest, I brought in Mexican foods which I had prepared, including mole made from scratch and served with poblanos rellenos. I also made spinach/Swiss cheese enchiladas.
No one held a gun to the head of our MAGA neighbor and told him he had to be a MAGA asshole. He chose to be an asshole on his own volition. He managed to offend just about every single person on our block; and none of us were the least bit sorry to see him move away.
We just hope we have blessed him out of our existence.
Wait, there was video of them committing crimes but since the cops themselves didn't see it, they chose to do nothing? Where was this, Texas?
Almost as bad: Indissippi.
(Indiana, also known as βThe Middle Finger Of The Southβ)
Mole made from scratch?!? [DROOL!!!]
But there's not much eating on a mole surely?
You need to make a mountain of moles for a meal.
π€£
And all this time I thought Vance WAS dumb! Now you're telling me he's playing dumb? I thought he was trying to play smart, and failing miserably. And I just have to ask, why are Christians so enamored with the Jewish part of the bible instead of the Christian part?? What a bunch of illiterate hypocrites.
They're enamored of it because "death if you disobey our rules" aligns much better with their hard-right ideas about society than Jesus' hippy dippy help-the-poor stuff.
Yep, methinks you hit that nail directly on the head!!!
Vance has no convictions other than Power. The Powerful rule. The meek submit or else.
I mean... he literally serves a man who worships power and money, not God.
He serves a man who plasters his name and graven image everywhere he can.
He serves a man uses the name of God to promote himself while doing things to dishonor God.
He serves a man who spends more time doing literally anything else than setting foot in a church.
He serves a man who has stolen. Stolen money from his own charity. Stolen money from the people who work for him. Stolen money from the taxpayers.
He serves a man who has committed murder.
He serves a man who has dishonored his father and mother with his every word and action and that is a difficult thing to do considering his parents.
He serves a man who has committed adultery multiple times.
He serves a man whose entire being is coveting. Be it coveting attention, coveting goods, coveting wealth. Coveting land. Coveting his neighbor's wife.
Every day, good Christian Vance gets up and goes and carries out the will of a man who treats the commandments he supposedly reveres as a goddamned square of toilet paper.
So fuck you, J.D. Hypocrite.
All you're doing is trying to impose a hellish and damned hierarchy on Americans with yourself on top, and everyone else forced to bow and scrape and accept your shit. You're trying to force your beliefs in power on everyone else denying them the liberty of their faith and conscience and teaching their own children about such personal matters in the name of control.
Fuck you.
I don't want to be a grammar Nazi, but you mispelled the word "stollen" several times.π
Are you sure he was playing dumb?
I demand evidence that he was just playing.
Vance is so dumb, it hasn't occured to him that the Ten Commandments Texas is putting up are the Protestant ones, not his Catholic version.
Well, he did dare to challenge the Pope on theology. We are not dealing with a towering intellect here.
Heβs less a tower and more a flattened cardboard box.
I think it's more sell-out than dumb. Some fundie right-wing Catholics may think they have an alliance with evangelicals, but pretty sure Vance in this case knows who has the greater political power. He's intentionally not saying anything that might tick them off.
I disagree. I think there's a bit of him which is questioning whether his conversion to catholicism was such a clever move. He tried to do a triangulation between carrying favour with hispanic voters, who are generally conservative (with a small c) and who are often (heritage) catholic, avoiding the 'which-flavour-of-evangelism' to choose quandary and also satisfying some of Thiel's expectations.
I would not be surprised if he was inching away from catholicism in the coming years. (I would also not be surprised if he got himself a blond wife, but that's a different discussion)
To be fair, he hasn't read then since catechism.
To be fair trad caths like Couch Boy are hardline fundamentalist protestants who've given nominal obeisance to Rome because they like the pomp and circumstance.
Rogan and Vance. Pass and pass.
Rogan and Vance. Two more examples of why contraceptives are useful.