No not in the least. This is a family asking for money not a religious group. The religious school will survive fine without that student. The discussion also talks about the constitution, but its a questionable discussion in my mind.
You didnt read the article as your points are not relevant or related to the article, which is about a disabled student wanting the same rights as others and students not getting the right to choose. Essentially. And what it means what they get the same rights.
While not puny god. This validates god. God changed the law to allow religious parents to have a choice in what school they go to. So how is god puny if their prayers were answered?
Bet u commented on the headline only and didnt read. Is it hard when u make comments without having a clue what u are talking about? Or I guess easy, as u just have preconceived answers ready, and dont need to hear the statement first. Just like mormon missionaries. They have all the answers in a binder they memorize, and dont need to actually listen to people. It saves having to process info.
God didn't change any law. He's a fictional character, fictional characters cannot do things. And it wasn't a family asking for money. It was a very religious family asking for government funds to pay for religious indoctrination.
Didn’t you read this?: “The real problem that must be addressed is that religious schools are exempt from the Americans with Disabilities Act”. Apparently your god doesn’t care that they let this exemption happen. 🙄
Religious organizations lobbied to exempt themselves from the ADA, civil rights, and special education laws. Religious schools are the worst place for disabled kids. Laws like this are a scam effort by Republicans to avoid repealing Section 504 of the Civil Rights code, IDEA, and the ADA. Those protections just won't apply anymore, because the school is religious.
Furthermore, the schools sign parents to year-long tuition contracts with non-disclosure agreements. Not only do they not provide the disabled child with help, they provoke a behavior episode on purpose to expel the child and keep the money, and due to the NDA, the parents can't sue or go to the media.
You need to realize just how profit-motivated the Religious Right is. It's all scams. Even former athlete Andre Agassi is in on it--he has a business teaching people how to get taxpayers to pay for a charter school, and then the charter school company can privatize it. Religion in America is nothing more than one big scam.
When you can show your God exists, and actually exerts a real effect into the world, that you might begin to have an argument. The claiming that your God answers these prayers, a statement made without any evidence, but ignores the prayers of children being molested by God‘s representatives, or people dying of horrible diseases, makes no sense whatsoever.
Their god has yet to say fuck-all, as far as I know, but his would-be representatives sound off at the least urging, and they ALL want to feed off the public trough. The problem (that we ALL KNOW) is that exceptions have been made for whatever reasons (usually lame), poking holes in what should be an adamantine wall between State and Church. And of course, now we have Donnie Dumb-Ass in the front seat, greasing Christian Nationalists' wheels and only making matters worse.
We can't nip this in the bud, 'cuz that bud is already blooming. What is needed is a shit-ton of Round-Up, dumped on their whole lousy garden!
For what it's worth, Diderot actually acquired that quote from the atheist French priest Jean Meslier in Meslier's posthumous multivolume memoir that was published by Voltaire called "Mon Testament: Of the Vanity and Falseness of All the Divinities and All the Religions of the World, to Be Addressed to My Parishioners After My Death to Serve Them as a Testimony to Truth."
Born in 1664 and died in 1729. Meslier preceded Diderot.
(I put the subtitle of Meslier's work in English because I only knew the French part of the title. I suspect the subtitle would've been a mouthful in French)
Mon testament : Sur la vanité et la fausseté de toutes les divinités et toutes les religions du monde, à remettre à mes paroissiens après ma mort pour leur servir en tant que temoignage sur la Vérité.
Incorrect. Non-disabled students do not get their full private school tuition payed for as their accommodation. He's not getting the same rights, he's getting exceptional treatment.
Before you start trying to justify this change, how about you justify the existence of religious schools. Parents can teach religion on their own time. School is for broadening a child's horizons beyond what zir parents know or believe, not locking zir into a bubble.
If your goddamm imaginary friend has something to say to me; it can get its goddamm fucking ass off it’s golden celestial throne and come down here to tell me itself or to smite me (I doubt it has the testicular integrity to do anything). It could send that even more goddamm useless bastard son of his to smite me, don’t send the holy pigeon I would just shoot it and feed it to my neighbour’s cat.
If god/jeezyboy/holy pigeon existed, it should be charged with Crimes Against Humanity for genocide, infanticide, accessory to genocide, homicide, rape, cruel and unusual punishment, etc. and sentenced to eternity in prison. It is luckily it is a fucking imaginary deity like all other deities.
Disabled students do have the same rights. They have the right to a public school education. In CA, they also had the "right" to a private school education, which is MORE than able students have. Now they have the "right" to a private religious education, which, again, is more than other students get.
These aren't rights. They are privileges and they are bunk in this case.
I suspect this law may have been a well-intentioned effort to get disabled kids an education the public schools may be unable to provide. It is, however, a gross violation of church-state separation, and has to go.
I am the oldest of 6 children. I went to Catholic school and so did the next in line. When it was time for the next kid to go there were problems. He is dyslexic and not yet diagnosed (as were most kids back in the 1960s). At the end of his 1st grade year, the teacher had a conference with my father. The teacher gave my dad a diagnosis - his son is retarded. Fortunately my dad was a social worker who had the knowledge and access to have my brother tested and correctly diagnosed. That brother now has a MFA and has toured Europe with his theater company. This is because after getting the correct diagnosis, my parents sent my brother (and the 3 younger kids) to public school where they got the proper attention and teachers that were interested in intellectual progress not conformity. Public schools have been the base for progress and good citizenship in the US. Two things the Catholic church does not support.
My cousins were legally blind and the local Catholic school refused to take them because "only the devil makes kids like that." This was the 60s and I think most Catholic schools these days are better than that but I will always be glad that I was also spared a Catholic school education. Catechism classes were bad enough.
I was spared a Catholic education, and I never felt the least bit deprived because of it. My small town just wasn't big enough to support a Catholic school.
I remember in kindergarten when my teacher noticed I was left handed. She was so excited to have a lefty. She made sure I had left handed scissors and any other tools I needed to make learning more comfortable, even let me sit at desks where my left arm wasn’t hindered.
I wish my second grade teacher (87-88) had been like her instead of forcing the pen back in my right hand where "it belonged" and lying to DM about it when she finally realised it, too late to correct it. I remember that same teacher having a fit about another student drawing a 0 the wrong way...
No absolutely not. See my comment above. Religious schools are exempt from following any special education laws. In fact, moving kids to religious schools is the Right's way to GO AROUND civil rights and special ed laws. The laws won't have to be repealed, which will be unpopular. They just won't apply anymore.
I don’t buy well-intentioned anymore if it violates church-state separation. CA is a big state full of everyone including pissed off and now emboldened Christo-fascists trying to make their mark. I believe it’s the blue states not paying attention who are about to experience a serious uptick in violence (at abortion clinics) Also, with all the wellness gurus over there, they can brand it as simply helping people or in other cases something environmental to get young folks on board. Sneaky tricksters.
"Well-intentioned" amounts to: "Oh, but WE don't mean any harm!", while trying to put a fast one over on the government. It's time to take State / Church separation fucking SERIOUSLY for a change and disallow ANY use of public monies for religious support of ANY kind.
When I was in school, sometimes a classroom in the Special Ed wing would get a piece of equipment to use. For what I have no idea, but it would always cause some discontent among the community. You could count on overhearing a bunch of old white guys grousing about how much was spent on this, "for a bunch of retards who couldn't learn anyway and ought not to be in school taking up the teacher's time."
For the record, the Special Ed wing had its own teachers, so no teacher's time was taken away from the rest of the student population.
Then after I graduated, a new high school had to be built because bringing the old one up to code, retrofitting for new technology, and making every classroom ADA compliant would have been cost-prohibitive, but there were people miffed about it. Again, because of the ADA requirements. There were people so misinformed they thought it was all about a couple of kids in wheelchairs making them pay for a whole new school. (By the way, the new school was paid for by the state, not the local community.)
I don't know if this was the case everywhere, but there was considerable prejudice against learning-disabled or physically-disable kids among the adults I was around. They were seen as diverting tax dollars meant to educate everybody else's "normal" kids, and absorbing too much of the school's resources.
This attitude predates any religious meddling I'm aware of, and might be part of why so many public schools were not well equipped in that area.
There is a little bit of irony involved here. The religious schools are getting money for having students with disabilities attend, but religious schools, unlike public schools don't have to accept everyone with disabilities. They can pick and choose. Leaving the public schools to handle the most expensive and difficult cases, while getting less money.
In California, how many students with disabilities are very religious, and can 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 have their educational need met by a private religious school? That number appears to be three.
It is possible that this sort of thing will happen again. Perhaps a better solution would be to continue prohibiting public funds to go to sectarian schools but add a waiver program. The requirements? 1. The applicant must demonstrate a legitimate disability. 2. The applicant must demonstrate a sincerely held belief that aligns with the school for which they want the waiver. 3. The school in question must be the only one available to the child that is capable of accommodating the disability needs. Then, and only then, does the family get that waiver, and it must only apply to the disabled child so that public funds are not directed to the religious school for children who do not need the special accommodation.
In a perfect society, the public schools would be completely neutral toward religion and would also have the resources to properly educate every student that comes their way. We do not live in a perfect society so we must sometimes compromise to get the best outcomes for our youth. We must, however guard ourselves very closely so that the inch we must give remains the inch and not the mile they wish to take.
Religious private schools aren’t trying to provide for the disabled students here. They are using this specific rule to siphon off public school money, partly to get more money for themselves but mainly to defund public schools so that only the elite, those they deem worthy, are afforded an education. Voucher programs are only about creating a class system that starves 90+% of the population.
In practice, we know the vouchers go to the students that already can afford (and attend) private schools, the private schools then raise tuition to keep the rabble out, the public schools in the area suffer from a lack of funding. We know this doesn’t work for parent choice, only for defunding public schools.
The parents who brought this lawsuit weren’t concerned about their student with disabilities getting a better education with a disability. These parents only discussed the religious needs of the child. If your kid requires kosher, then as parents it’s your responsibility to ensure they are kosher, not any school. If you want to do that through sending your child to a private religious school, then you pay for it, period. Their concerns weren’t about how the private school would help their child through the disability, only religion.
Because of that, I doubt the religious schools can provide the supports for students with disabilities that are required. I see the schools for the deaf or blind being necessary, but we all know even non-specialized non religious private schools don’t invest in providing special education services, and since the religious schools specifically fought to avoid having to provide, there really is not a case for them to be the best option when considering the needs of the disabled student regarding their disability. Not that I think folks won’t ignore that consideration, I know the parents will send their kids to the religious schools for the religion and to hell with them actually getting the supports, and education they need. That’s if the school lets them attend in the first place.
I think the state should fund the schools specifically for disabilities, allowing them to avoid this entanglement with private schools altogether. It I’m sure there are folks who will argue that, since it’s public school my kid without disabilities should attend it too. Or whatever morons think is unfair. They can have these schools while also allowing the disabled kids to be in the regular public schools if that’s what they need.
This is also a product of the thinking that the public school tax money is for each student, but it is not. The money for public schools is for the community to have a public school, available to all school aged children in the community. No other tax expenditures are doled out to individual taxpayers. I’m not given my percentage of the roads funding to maintain the road in front of my property, nor am I given a percentage of the parks budget for having a swingset or swimming pool in my yard, or for any other public service. These are services setup for each of us to use, including public schools. If we don’t need them, we don’t use them, but they are there if we do. But we aren’t owed the funds for these public services if we don’t use them. The voucher proponents are manipulating the narrative surrounding public school funding by taking the metric the schools use to justify their funding, the per student expenditure data, to claim every parent in the district is owed that money whether the students attend the public school or not. That isn’t what that data means nor is it what public school funds are for.
There are a lot of people in the USA that feel their taxes should only be used for things they themselves get to enjoy. Shortsightedness and selfishness continue to be at the root of many of our problems.
So, today, Johny gets pork chops. Ibrahim and Mullah get burned goat at lunch. Saint Slobovia is my patron sint, so I get off that week. Ibrahim and mulloah should hve chosen superstitions with patron saints. Imagine if we start allowing bsinesses to do this?
The schools should offer lunch that is appropriate for the most students, those with dietary restrictions, religious or medical, have the option of providing their own lunches. Take off whatever days you want, just be prepared for the consequences. Folks already pull their children out for a week all the time for ski vacations or globetrotting, what is the issue if the parents choose to do it for religious purposes? If it becomes too much for the student, then getting governmental permission won’t change the outcome. So, parents should make the choices best for their student. If that’s missing public school and making it up with summer school, or choosing to attend a private school with these holidays in mind, or choosing to attend school during some holidays and making up the ceremonial activities at a later date, that’s on the parents to accommodate.
We DO allow businesses to do this. If I want to take off next week for Saint Slobovia, I can. Heck I don't even have to *tell* work about Saint Slobovia, I can just do it with little explanation at all. It's all just PTO hours to them, they don't care how you spend it.
On food, well they rarely supply it at all. But when they do, why wouldn't they try to make their employees happy? Our last corporate 'all hands' had a bunch of sandwich options, including vegetarian and kosher options plus vegan desserts.
So these children who were "given" (such a gift) their condition by god now have to worship that god? On top of everything they are going through they also have to deal with Stockholm Syndrome.
So, do private religious schools have the same right to be defunded by the Trump administration as public schools, or are we still giving public schools the special privilege of not being able to afford to heat their buildings in the winter? I demand equality for all.
“When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and, when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig'd to call for the help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”
Trying to take down one of the world’s finest universities, that attracts top global talent, and helps bring excellence and innovation to America is making us great? Or is this a loser desperate for a win?
Rumor has it that Donnie is all bent because Barron didn't get into Harvard. I feel bad for Barron, but Donnie deserves to be kicked in the ass for this spleen of his!
"It’s arguably a self-inflicted wound against church/state separation..."
The way the US allows public funding for religious education, it could die the death of a thousand cuts. Bluntly, there should be NO public money for ANY form of religious school, regardless whether it's Christian, Jewish, or Pastafarian. Still, this crap goes on.
And should State / Church separation finally fall, it is local and state actions like these that will be as much to blame as those of religious activists.
If public schools can't accommodate students with disabilities then the problem is with the states and the federal government. Diverting funds toward privates (religious or not) schools is certainly not the solution to fix that problem.
While this might encourage religious schools to increase the acceptance of children with disabilities, it will also provide an opening for religious schools to demand that all children be given the same option. And there is no requirement that these schools are monitored for their academic standards. It's an obvious violation of the separation of church and state.
Newsom has, indeed, been shifting rightward. He's 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘦𝘵𝘦𝘭𝘺 willing to throw LGBTQ people under the bus if he thinks it'll bolster his Presidential ambitions:
And that's why everyone with a platform to do so should be doing their dead level best to scupper his campaign before it starts. The last thing we need after four more years of howling fascist madness- assuming we even 𝘨𝘦𝘵 to vote for our next President- is a fucking Republican with a (D) instead of an (R) next to his name.
Religion, which can't seem to survive without government help, has their hands out yet again.
Puny god.
https://tenor.com/view/puny-god-the-hulk-loki-gif-13250209?utm_source=share-button&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=pinterest
No not in the least. This is a family asking for money not a religious group. The religious school will survive fine without that student. The discussion also talks about the constitution, but its a questionable discussion in my mind.
You didnt read the article as your points are not relevant or related to the article, which is about a disabled student wanting the same rights as others and students not getting the right to choose. Essentially. And what it means what they get the same rights.
While not puny god. This validates god. God changed the law to allow religious parents to have a choice in what school they go to. So how is god puny if their prayers were answered?
Bet u commented on the headline only and didnt read. Is it hard when u make comments without having a clue what u are talking about? Or I guess easy, as u just have preconceived answers ready, and dont need to hear the statement first. Just like mormon missionaries. They have all the answers in a binder they memorize, and dont need to actually listen to people. It saves having to process info.
God didn't change any law. He's a fictional character, fictional characters cannot do things. And it wasn't a family asking for money. It was a very religious family asking for government funds to pay for religious indoctrination.
Thank you, I started to type about that godthing in my post to AJ but didn't bother to even finish it..
Looks like it just may be that it was AJ who didn't read the article.
He doesn't need to, his god told him what to type.
It's set down in binders like the Mormons.
Oh, wait. They're Christians as well. :)
'Real' christians don't think so. Check out David Fitzgerald's The Mormons to see a great account of the foundation of that scam.
Thank you Joe! Exactly!
Didn’t you read this?: “The real problem that must be addressed is that religious schools are exempt from the Americans with Disabilities Act”. Apparently your god doesn’t care that they let this exemption happen. 🙄
Had god glasses on. Makes reading comprehension difficult if not impossible.
My only response to you:
You assumed that I didn’t read the article. You made sure to say it more than once. You know what happens when you assume.
The rest is piffle.
Piffle ?
Old word for nonsense.
Throw in "balderdash" while you're at it! 😁
Claptrap. Bosh. Blather. Poppycock. Codswallop. Twaddle. Flapdoodle. Bellywash…
I got a million of 'em. :D
Religious organizations lobbied to exempt themselves from the ADA, civil rights, and special education laws. Religious schools are the worst place for disabled kids. Laws like this are a scam effort by Republicans to avoid repealing Section 504 of the Civil Rights code, IDEA, and the ADA. Those protections just won't apply anymore, because the school is religious.
Furthermore, the schools sign parents to year-long tuition contracts with non-disclosure agreements. Not only do they not provide the disabled child with help, they provoke a behavior episode on purpose to expel the child and keep the money, and due to the NDA, the parents can't sue or go to the media.
You need to realize just how profit-motivated the Religious Right is. It's all scams. Even former athlete Andre Agassi is in on it--he has a business teaching people how to get taxpayers to pay for a charter school, and then the charter school company can privatize it. Religion in America is nothing more than one big scam.
👆👆👆👆🎯 Yep, they don't want the kids just the money. Same as it ever was.
When you can show your God exists, and actually exerts a real effect into the world, that you might begin to have an argument. The claiming that your God answers these prayers, a statement made without any evidence, but ignores the prayers of children being molested by God‘s representatives, or people dying of horrible diseases, makes no sense whatsoever.
Their god has yet to say fuck-all, as far as I know, but his would-be representatives sound off at the least urging, and they ALL want to feed off the public trough. The problem (that we ALL KNOW) is that exceptions have been made for whatever reasons (usually lame), poking holes in what should be an adamantine wall between State and Church. And of course, now we have Donnie Dumb-Ass in the front seat, greasing Christian Nationalists' wheels and only making matters worse.
We can't nip this in the bud, 'cuz that bud is already blooming. What is needed is a shit-ton of Round-Up, dumped on their whole lousy garden!
I think it was diderot that said that mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
It sounds pretty messy, but the basic sentiment isn’t bad.
For what it's worth, Diderot actually acquired that quote from the atheist French priest Jean Meslier in Meslier's posthumous multivolume memoir that was published by Voltaire called "Mon Testament: Of the Vanity and Falseness of All the Divinities and All the Religions of the World, to Be Addressed to My Parishioners After My Death to Serve Them as a Testimony to Truth."
Born in 1664 and died in 1729. Meslier preceded Diderot.
(I put the subtitle of Meslier's work in English because I only knew the French part of the title. I suspect the subtitle would've been a mouthful in French)
Respect. I can never remember the source.
Something I didn't know. Thanks..
*Crack her fingers*
Mon testament : Sur la vanité et la fausseté de toutes les divinités et toutes les religions du monde, à remettre à mes paroissiens après ma mort pour leur servir en tant que temoignage sur la Vérité.
You are welcome.
𝐺𝑜𝑑 𝑐ℎ𝑎𝑛𝑔𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑤 𝑡𝑜 𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑜𝑤 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑠 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑎 𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑖𝑐𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑠𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑙 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑔𝑜 𝑡𝑜. 𝑆𝑜 ℎ𝑜𝑤 𝑖𝑠 𝑔𝑜𝑑 𝑝𝑢𝑛𝑦
God is puny because God 'changed the law' instead of fixing the disability.
𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑙𝑒, 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑐ℎ 𝑖𝑠 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑎 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒𝑑 𝑠𝑡𝑢𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑤𝑎𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑚𝑒 𝑟𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡𝑠 𝑎𝑠 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑠𝑡𝑢𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑠
Incorrect. Non-disabled students do not get their full private school tuition payed for as their accommodation. He's not getting the same rights, he's getting exceptional treatment.
Before you start trying to justify this change, how about you justify the existence of religious schools. Parents can teach religion on their own time. School is for broadening a child's horizons beyond what zir parents know or believe, not locking zir into a bubble.
If your goddamm imaginary friend has something to say to me; it can get its goddamm fucking ass off it’s golden celestial throne and come down here to tell me itself or to smite me (I doubt it has the testicular integrity to do anything). It could send that even more goddamm useless bastard son of his to smite me, don’t send the holy pigeon I would just shoot it and feed it to my neighbour’s cat.
If god/jeezyboy/holy pigeon existed, it should be charged with Crimes Against Humanity for genocide, infanticide, accessory to genocide, homicide, rape, cruel and unusual punishment, etc. and sentenced to eternity in prison. It is luckily it is a fucking imaginary deity like all other deities.
Disabled students do have the same rights. They have the right to a public school education. In CA, they also had the "right" to a private school education, which is MORE than able students have. Now they have the "right" to a private religious education, which, again, is more than other students get.
These aren't rights. They are privileges and they are bunk in this case.
I suspect this law may have been a well-intentioned effort to get disabled kids an education the public schools may be unable to provide. It is, however, a gross violation of church-state separation, and has to go.
I am the oldest of 6 children. I went to Catholic school and so did the next in line. When it was time for the next kid to go there were problems. He is dyslexic and not yet diagnosed (as were most kids back in the 1960s). At the end of his 1st grade year, the teacher had a conference with my father. The teacher gave my dad a diagnosis - his son is retarded. Fortunately my dad was a social worker who had the knowledge and access to have my brother tested and correctly diagnosed. That brother now has a MFA and has toured Europe with his theater company. This is because after getting the correct diagnosis, my parents sent my brother (and the 3 younger kids) to public school where they got the proper attention and teachers that were interested in intellectual progress not conformity. Public schools have been the base for progress and good citizenship in the US. Two things the Catholic church does not support.
My cousins were legally blind and the local Catholic school refused to take them because "only the devil makes kids like that." This was the 60s and I think most Catholic schools these days are better than that but I will always be glad that I was also spared a Catholic school education. Catechism classes were bad enough.
"Only the devil makes kids like that?!?" GOOD NIGHT, AGNES! Whoever said that deserves to have their teeth shoved down their throat!
Glad you made it through that crap!
It was horrifying.
I was spared a Catholic education, and I never felt the least bit deprived because of it. My small town just wasn't big enough to support a Catholic school.
I have a relative who was ambidextrous.
𝘞𝘢𝘴.
Until going to Catholic school.
I remember in kindergarten when my teacher noticed I was left handed. She was so excited to have a lefty. She made sure I had left handed scissors and any other tools I needed to make learning more comfortable, even let me sit at desks where my left arm wasn’t hindered.
Public schools for the win! That was around 1980.
I wish my second grade teacher (87-88) had been like her instead of forcing the pen back in my right hand where "it belonged" and lying to DM about it when she finally realised it, too late to correct it. I remember that same teacher having a fit about another student drawing a 0 the wrong way...
Same here as a lefty!
Sometimes I wonder if any of the kids who were labeled "retarded" at our school may have actually been autistic.
No absolutely not. See my comment above. Religious schools are exempt from following any special education laws. In fact, moving kids to religious schools is the Right's way to GO AROUND civil rights and special ed laws. The laws won't have to be repealed, which will be unpopular. They just won't apply anymore.
I don’t buy well-intentioned anymore if it violates church-state separation. CA is a big state full of everyone including pissed off and now emboldened Christo-fascists trying to make their mark. I believe it’s the blue states not paying attention who are about to experience a serious uptick in violence (at abortion clinics) Also, with all the wellness gurus over there, they can brand it as simply helping people or in other cases something environmental to get young folks on board. Sneaky tricksters.
"Well-intentioned" amounts to: "Oh, but WE don't mean any harm!", while trying to put a fast one over on the government. It's time to take State / Church separation fucking SERIOUSLY for a change and disallow ANY use of public monies for religious support of ANY kind.
RELIGION: "Just let our camel put his nose in your tent. What harm could it possibly cause?"
Say NO! to any and all violations of church/state separation.
Pre-CISE-ly! Punch that camel in the nose!
Or the toe.
Like Arnold did in Conan.
Where’s Arnold?
GMTA!
Indeed. :D
No, it is just an excuse to get the camel's ass in the tent.
When I was in school, sometimes a classroom in the Special Ed wing would get a piece of equipment to use. For what I have no idea, but it would always cause some discontent among the community. You could count on overhearing a bunch of old white guys grousing about how much was spent on this, "for a bunch of retards who couldn't learn anyway and ought not to be in school taking up the teacher's time."
For the record, the Special Ed wing had its own teachers, so no teacher's time was taken away from the rest of the student population.
Then after I graduated, a new high school had to be built because bringing the old one up to code, retrofitting for new technology, and making every classroom ADA compliant would have been cost-prohibitive, but there were people miffed about it. Again, because of the ADA requirements. There were people so misinformed they thought it was all about a couple of kids in wheelchairs making them pay for a whole new school. (By the way, the new school was paid for by the state, not the local community.)
I don't know if this was the case everywhere, but there was considerable prejudice against learning-disabled or physically-disable kids among the adults I was around. They were seen as diverting tax dollars meant to educate everybody else's "normal" kids, and absorbing too much of the school's resources.
This attitude predates any religious meddling I'm aware of, and might be part of why so many public schools were not well equipped in that area.
Just a thought...
A large part of this country has no patience for any "not normal" people, physically or mentally challenged, LGBT, atheist, musilim, jewish, etc.
"The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) guarantees that students with disabilities can receive free public education."
Religious education is not public education.
Disgusting.
There is a little bit of irony involved here. The religious schools are getting money for having students with disabilities attend, but religious schools, unlike public schools don't have to accept everyone with disabilities. They can pick and choose. Leaving the public schools to handle the most expensive and difficult cases, while getting less money.
In California, how many students with disabilities are very religious, and can 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 have their educational need met by a private religious school? That number appears to be three.
It is possible that this sort of thing will happen again. Perhaps a better solution would be to continue prohibiting public funds to go to sectarian schools but add a waiver program. The requirements? 1. The applicant must demonstrate a legitimate disability. 2. The applicant must demonstrate a sincerely held belief that aligns with the school for which they want the waiver. 3. The school in question must be the only one available to the child that is capable of accommodating the disability needs. Then, and only then, does the family get that waiver, and it must only apply to the disabled child so that public funds are not directed to the religious school for children who do not need the special accommodation.
In a perfect society, the public schools would be completely neutral toward religion and would also have the resources to properly educate every student that comes their way. We do not live in a perfect society so we must sometimes compromise to get the best outcomes for our youth. We must, however guard ourselves very closely so that the inch we must give remains the inch and not the mile they wish to take.
Bravo.
Religious private schools aren’t trying to provide for the disabled students here. They are using this specific rule to siphon off public school money, partly to get more money for themselves but mainly to defund public schools so that only the elite, those they deem worthy, are afforded an education. Voucher programs are only about creating a class system that starves 90+% of the population.
In practice, we know the vouchers go to the students that already can afford (and attend) private schools, the private schools then raise tuition to keep the rabble out, the public schools in the area suffer from a lack of funding. We know this doesn’t work for parent choice, only for defunding public schools.
The parents who brought this lawsuit weren’t concerned about their student with disabilities getting a better education with a disability. These parents only discussed the religious needs of the child. If your kid requires kosher, then as parents it’s your responsibility to ensure they are kosher, not any school. If you want to do that through sending your child to a private religious school, then you pay for it, period. Their concerns weren’t about how the private school would help their child through the disability, only religion.
Because of that, I doubt the religious schools can provide the supports for students with disabilities that are required. I see the schools for the deaf or blind being necessary, but we all know even non-specialized non religious private schools don’t invest in providing special education services, and since the religious schools specifically fought to avoid having to provide, there really is not a case for them to be the best option when considering the needs of the disabled student regarding their disability. Not that I think folks won’t ignore that consideration, I know the parents will send their kids to the religious schools for the religion and to hell with them actually getting the supports, and education they need. That’s if the school lets them attend in the first place.
I think the state should fund the schools specifically for disabilities, allowing them to avoid this entanglement with private schools altogether. It I’m sure there are folks who will argue that, since it’s public school my kid without disabilities should attend it too. Or whatever morons think is unfair. They can have these schools while also allowing the disabled kids to be in the regular public schools if that’s what they need.
This is also a product of the thinking that the public school tax money is for each student, but it is not. The money for public schools is for the community to have a public school, available to all school aged children in the community. No other tax expenditures are doled out to individual taxpayers. I’m not given my percentage of the roads funding to maintain the road in front of my property, nor am I given a percentage of the parks budget for having a swingset or swimming pool in my yard, or for any other public service. These are services setup for each of us to use, including public schools. If we don’t need them, we don’t use them, but they are there if we do. But we aren’t owed the funds for these public services if we don’t use them. The voucher proponents are manipulating the narrative surrounding public school funding by taking the metric the schools use to justify their funding, the per student expenditure data, to claim every parent in the district is owed that money whether the students attend the public school or not. That isn’t what that data means nor is it what public school funds are for.
There are a lot of people in the USA that feel their taxes should only be used for things they themselves get to enjoy. Shortsightedness and selfishness continue to be at the root of many of our problems.
Like the meme says, worrying only about your rights is how you lose them.
Shortsightedness and selfishness, aka conservatism.
With a heapin' helping of sadism on the side.
I think the sadism is the main course, not a side dish.
👆🎯
A lot of people get off punching down on the Other. And their name is MAGA for they are many.
Well...yes.
So, today, Johny gets pork chops. Ibrahim and Mullah get burned goat at lunch. Saint Slobovia is my patron sint, so I get off that week. Ibrahim and mulloah should hve chosen superstitions with patron saints. Imagine if we start allowing bsinesses to do this?
I’m not sure what you are trying to say.
The schools should offer lunch that is appropriate for the most students, those with dietary restrictions, religious or medical, have the option of providing their own lunches. Take off whatever days you want, just be prepared for the consequences. Folks already pull their children out for a week all the time for ski vacations or globetrotting, what is the issue if the parents choose to do it for religious purposes? If it becomes too much for the student, then getting governmental permission won’t change the outcome. So, parents should make the choices best for their student. If that’s missing public school and making it up with summer school, or choosing to attend a private school with these holidays in mind, or choosing to attend school during some holidays and making up the ceremonial activities at a later date, that’s on the parents to accommodate.
Life is choices and consequences. But people hate dealing with consequences.
We DO allow businesses to do this. If I want to take off next week for Saint Slobovia, I can. Heck I don't even have to *tell* work about Saint Slobovia, I can just do it with little explanation at all. It's all just PTO hours to them, they don't care how you spend it.
On food, well they rarely supply it at all. But when they do, why wouldn't they try to make their employees happy? Our last corporate 'all hands' had a bunch of sandwich options, including vegetarian and kosher options plus vegan desserts.
So these children who were "given" (such a gift) their condition by god now have to worship that god? On top of everything they are going through they also have to deal with Stockholm Syndrome.
So, do private religious schools have the same right to be defunded by the Trump administration as public schools, or are we still giving public schools the special privilege of not being able to afford to heat their buildings in the winter? I demand equality for all.
Some are more equal than others.
Shall I post this yet again?
goodreads.com/quotes/1287749-when-a-religion-is-good-i-conceive-that-it-will
That quote should be cited in any governmental meeting where the issue of religious education supported by public funds is proposed.
When I type the whole quote out, I usually post the attribution as well. Skipped it this time because everyone knows the quote. :)
*Raise her hand*
“When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and, when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig'd to call for the help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”
― Benjamin Franklin
I thought she knew it was Benjamin Franlin and was asking where Franklin’s quote came from. Oops.
Then I thought she was asking who Dr. Richard Price was. Double oops.
Franklin's quote came in his letter to Dr. Richard Price (a Christian) in London dated October 9th 1780. :)
Who ?
Ben Franklin, the U.S. guy that figured out lightning was electricity.
As it comes to crap like this, ol' Ben Franklin is ALWAYS appropriate!
Always appropriate.
Sure, let's just send the most vulnerable students to the most predatory schools! What could 𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘣𝘭𝘺 go wrong with that 𝘣𝘳𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘪𝘢𝘯𝘵 idea?
https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/spiceworks/original/4X/2/9/0/290cc1753e88e0d1626013f90b7aa6cf9e2b3448.jpeg
Trying to take down one of the world’s finest universities, that attracts top global talent, and helps bring excellence and innovation to America is making us great? Or is this a loser desperate for a win?
It is revenge by the Temper-Tantrum-In-Chief.
Rumor has it that Donnie is all bent because Barron didn't get into Harvard. I feel bad for Barron, but Donnie deserves to be kicked in the ass for this spleen of his!
https://youtu.be/8cJrDSFe9Kk?si=JK_2zMsDITV1Jjvy
Well ... [mild chuckle] that sorta explains THAT! 😝
You just know it's because one of Obama's kids went there! And Baron is described as a mediocre student, at best.
But Barron is the smartest, he turned on the computer after he shut it off.
"It’s arguably a self-inflicted wound against church/state separation..."
The way the US allows public funding for religious education, it could die the death of a thousand cuts. Bluntly, there should be NO public money for ANY form of religious school, regardless whether it's Christian, Jewish, or Pastafarian. Still, this crap goes on.
And should State / Church separation finally fall, it is local and state actions like these that will be as much to blame as those of religious activists.
If public schools can't accommodate students with disabilities then the problem is with the states and the federal government. Diverting funds toward privates (religious or not) schools is certainly not the solution to fix that problem.
OT - Zeta and Rho
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap250527.html
Mouseover for labels
"Lovely Zeta, Milky Way..."
*with apologies to the Beatles*
Rho la la, Zeta bien rouge tout ça.
While this might encourage religious schools to increase the acceptance of children with disabilities, it will also provide an opening for religious schools to demand that all children be given the same option. And there is no requirement that these schools are monitored for their academic standards. It's an obvious violation of the separation of church and state.
Now LGBTQ get to pay for kids to be taught we deserve no rights, only murder? FUCK YOU governor NEWSOME!!!
I know politicians that are considering presidential runs often try to come off as centrists, but Newsome is leaning too far right for my taste.
Newsom has, indeed, been shifting rightward. He's 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘦𝘵𝘦𝘭𝘺 willing to throw LGBTQ people under the bus if he thinks it'll bolster his Presidential ambitions:
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/ca-gov-gavin-newsom-completely-aligns
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/gavin-newsom-pressured-behind-the
And that's why everyone with a platform to do so should be doing their dead level best to scupper his campaign before it starts. The last thing we need after four more years of howling fascist madness- assuming we even 𝘨𝘦𝘵 to vote for our next President- is a fucking Republican with a (D) instead of an (R) next to his name.
Huh?
Is this the 'King and the Prince' book thing?
WE invented gods. Logic over Faith.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGAvz2BWajE