"It’s telling that LifeWise refuses to offer their classes before or after school. They want to waste part of the school day, dammit. They want to be a replacement for secular classes, not an addition to them."
This is part of their effort to eliminate secular public schooling altogether. It is their ultimate goal to privatize all education and only allow Christian schools to exist. It is part of the broader push towards theocratic authoritarianism so dear to the Christian Nationalists running the NSGOP. It is why they will never move off of their claim that separation of church and state is not in the constitution. Kudos to The Satanic Temple for these forceful reminders of that principle.
Yes, major alarms should be going off for them. Rural Missouri Republicans have openly talked about defunding public schools in Missouri.......Jess Piper talks about this on her substack.
And it's only gotten worse since Carson v Makin in 2022. That completely reinforced christo-fascisim, white supremacy, and the acceleration of their desire to defund schools and libraries.
Soon we will rank right down there with El salvador, a country ran by the Catholics. The Christian nationalists are completely dumbing down this country.
As much as anything, measures like this serve to illustrate just how weak the Christian message ultimately is. Otherwise, they would not be so obsessed with indoctrinating children before they've reached the age of reason. Why is it ever acceptable to present things to children as facts, an educated adult would likely dismiss out of hand if hearing it for the first time? Oklahoma has some of the worst social metrics in the country. Their Christianity doesn't really translate into well being. They will dismiss these failures as the fault of those who were not TRUE Christians.
People are staying away from the churches and now the leaders are desperate. Parents are no longer taking kids to Sunday schools and so they have to infiltrate actual schools Monday to Friday. They're losing and they know it !
I read this a lot from posters, that they are losing members - but I swear it's getting worse, I swear they are gaining members, and these members are not your run of the mill church people - these cult members. I don't know if my feeling there is accurate or if it's just because I read more on these particular topics. All I know is - it cannot die fast enough!
That's right, the failures are caused by the sinners, they didn't pray hard enough, they disobeyed their dad or their husband, they didn't go to church enough, didn't give enough money to the church........lastly they will blame it on LBGTQ....... when all else fails just blame this community. Like they did Nex.
As an Oklahoman, I actually agree with this policy. If our children learn, then they might become smart enough to realize that they are in Oklahoma and then get the fuck out of my state. If that happens then who will work the menial minimum wage jobs? I shutter to think about it. So we can't have the children learning. We've tried to make the schools as awful as we can, but still there is a slim chance of accidental learning. We can't have that. So then why don't we just shorten the school day? But that might seem like a solution, but it runs its own risks. Some nerd might be sneak a text book instead of slinging fries. Again, any knowledge gained is productivity lost. So we have to shorten the school day and yet keep these children in an environment where learning is impossible. What better place than a church. And if they can get to a church, we'll bring the church to them.
As long as there is one non-believer in Oklahoma, God will not bestow his blessings on us. It is imperative that we make all Oklahomans into God-fearing Christians. I mean, look at Oklahoma now. It's a Hellhole. We have atheists and homos and Demoncrats living openly. Coincidence? No! It's God's punishment for us allowing these vermin to remain in Oklahoma where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain, and the wavin' wheat can sure smell sweet, when the wind comes right behind the rain.
OTOH, think of the potential population flow into the state! "Come to Oklahoma, where all our employers prefer your out-of-state diplomas/degrees to our in-state ones."
This is more Dominionist creep. They keep pushing and damaging public education. They want indoctrination, not education. The less time students spend in school, the less likely they are to develop critical thinking skills. And, spending time away from school in Lifewise Bible Classes is nothing but a chance to draw the kids into the cult. The Satanic Temple program looks to be OK, but being in school would be a better idea... unless your goal is a dumbed-down populace.
I think maybe a dumbed down populace is exactly what they want. The dumbed down populace is much easier for the authoritarian rulers to control, and the religious aspect of the indoctrination adds the threat of infinite torture for disobedience.
The TST also believes being in class is the best outcome. Their program is designed to be a credible program that defeats the Christian program by infuriating the bigots and force them to end it altogether. But they can only do that if their program is a real option, like the guy who tried it in Ohio but didn't provide a program didn't accomplish anything, they will. Often when the arguments against the TST focus on the inclusion of the word Satan in the name, folks focus so much on that they forget that the reason TST is there is not to provide a club, or class for the students, but to end the religiously privileged program altogether. They want to be offensive, while also providing something of value to argue they are legitimate, so that the liars and bigots lose their undeserved (and frankly, dangerous) access. The idea of taking children out of classes for religious and "ethical" studies is asinine on its face. Students get ethical training in schools, through reading programs, socializing, and many other ways that are far superior to the "obey the authority, aka God, or else" the religious teach. And there are plenty of opportunities outside of school hours to attend bible school for the religious learning, they just can't force non Christians into them.
Exactly - they can't do that by being called the Rainbows and Unicorns Club. It just doesn't have the same shock value and effect.
You should have seen all the stuff on Facebook and news here in West Tennessee when TST came to the school in Memphis. NOT one person bothered to go to their website to even read anything about them, or Lucien. NOT one person bothered to investigate them to learn that they have nothing to do with this satanic church and Anthony LaVey.
So many ignorant people. No wonder why they so easily fall into cults.
I'm planning a vacation for us to the Northeast next year, going to make a pit stop in Salem.
I would like to add that I am truly worried about Dominionism. When I first heard about it 10-12 years ago, I just thought: Oh, silly, delusional pentecostalists. But the concept has spread to the rest of evangelical christianity. They have dreams of forcing the whole country to bow to their will and they vote and they are willing to cast their lot with fascists to bring their Theofascist country to fruition.
I don't recall being taught 'critical thinking skills,' I had to figure it out for myself. High school did offer a course in Logic, but I opted for Biology. Shoulda done both.
I figured it out for myself as well. But, given that it is useful to an educated citizenry, it should be taught and like all skills, exercised frequently.
It would seem as though the state of Oklahoma is bound and determined to violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, as it applies to its public schools. Indeed, with their "released time course" bill, they are encouraging just that. Just as certainly, they will scream bloody murder when The Satanic Temple unleashes their "hellions" upon the Sooner State as an alternative to the LifeWise Academy program.
Time to rev up the courtroom and plenty of lawyers, 'cuz here we go again!
The State of Oklahoma is run by religious nuts who think the establishment clause only prohibits Congress from declaring one particular denomination to be the official Church of the United States.
This, as they say in the vernacular, is intuitively obvious. What will make things interesting are the actions I would anticipate from The Satanic Temple and organizations such as the Freedom From Religion Foundation and American Atheists. It may not move the needle among Sooner State legislators, but it may make Oklahoma citizens THINK just a little bit.
And who knows? We might even get a court decision in our favor ... MAYBE.
The fact the state's economy is in the toilet, many of their children can't wait to escape the backwater, and those willing to stay can't find work, hasn't clued in the voters that their legislators are focused on the wrong 'problems'.
Didn't Oklahoma also approve a Catholic Charter School for a public school option recently, too? They're not trying to hide their intentions at all, are they.
The Satanic Temple will never be allowed to offer their morality course. The christianists will rise up and scream bloody murder. There will be calls for lynchings or other forms of murder and torture for anyone associated with the Satanic Temple. One of the first rules of the Republic of Gilead will be that NOBODY can disagree with the dominant religion. Other reichwing christians will initially band together with the Talibangelicals, but they will be suppressed as soon as Gilead comes to be.
IMO.... these release time courses are just a litmus test to see if they can sustain court battles - it's a foot in the door to eventually bring full-on religion into public schools.
They want this to be seen in kids' minds as just another class. They want their fundamentalist nonsense placed on equal ground with math, science, history, and ELA.
I think, fortunately, they underestimate the kids...as well as university admissions staff. This might allow fundie parents to keep their kids from getting educated, but I expect nonfundie parents and kids wanting to boost their college application will just stay away from it, knowing that admissions staff will know exactly what 'released time course credit' means.
For now. No doubt this is the just the first salvo in the dominionist plan, with salvos two and three being "you can't allow those other kids to take meaningful classes during this time, otherwise our church kids will fall behind...," followed by "...so let's just make it mandatory for all kids."
TST is doing a good thing, but a better thing would be for the local community colleges to advertise courses available during released time, for college credit. The fundies would work extremely hard to try and prevent that (maybe harder than against TST!), because college credit from an accredited organization is something they don't want to compete against.
Exactly, full-on indoctrinization and religion in public schools is there ultimate goal. This release time is a litmus test. And, why wouldn't they - look at everything they've been able to accomplish do far. They've become so brazen on every topic, they don't even try to hide it anymore.
Learning about religions, what it is and the most important beliefs for the biggest religions should be a part of history class or social or cultural studies. Or something like that. Not teached as if the religions itself are a matter of fact.
I once jokingly suggested to my brother that I planned to go into libraries and bookstores and demand that the Bible be placed in the "fiction" section.
"... they can’t skip certain classes (like English or Math)."
But they are encouraged to skip certain other classes (like Biology, Civics, History, Art, Geography, ..) where they could be exposed to those wrong ideas like evolution, a secular constitution, the invention of agriculture more than 4000 years before the world was created, 20000 year old cave paintings, that the earth is not shaped like a disc ...
Bake the bacon. Line a cookie sheet with aluminum foil. Lay out the bacon, and put the tray in a cold oven. Set the temp to 400 degrees. It will done in 20 to 30 minutes depending on how fast your oven heats up.
Oh my gosh, Hemant you are hysterical! Got my first laugh of the day reading:
"And there is nothing that requires those Bible studies to be academically rigorous in any meaningful way"
I got a Master of Divinity (Summa Cum Laude) from an academically rigorous Presbyterian seminary. I may as well have spent my time rigorously studying the Lord of the Rings!
Actually, I'm almost positive there are courses to do that. English teachers love to have you dissect stories looking for symbolism and hidden meanings. Only about a 3rd of it actually intended by the author.
I think that's why they still want to teach crap like 'The Sound and the Fury', 'The Great Gatsby', and 'The Red Badge of Courage'. None of them are interesting, much less gripping stories. Hell, a 'Tale of Two Cities' took an hour to get mildly interesting. Then you have writers like Stephen King, you add back 300 pages and the story is more interesting and better paced. (The abridged version of 'The Stand' took me 3 weeks to read. The unabridged, a week)
The Muslim and Jewish kids who won’t miss anything by not going to Big Christian indoctrination classes will go on to college or start a business while the bible kids will be flipping burgers at Mickey D’s for a living. The Christians want to keep their sheep in line by doubling down the dumbing down.
Note: I actually read this last night around 9:15. I was surprised to see no comments. When I tried to comment, I got an error message. Guess it was sent out in error.
The problem with that is that those students won't be learning anything more than the kids who leave. Why teach a class that you will only have to teach it over again for the majority of kids that weren't there the first time. Or if they do teach the class while the others aren't there, the next class when they are, they are just going back over the material. Plus, so often classes are taught to the lowest level in the class, rather than the middle and then provide further support for the extremes. The extra time the students who stay in class get could be used to advance their learning, and might in some cases. But in general, it will be used more like an opportunity to shame them into considering participating in the indoctrination, or a reason to leave the state altogether for being a durn foreigner. Just a reminder that they don't belong.
There are plenty of academic elective ideas that could be dropped into a released time period. Full credit to TST for actually doing the work, but nothing stops other educational or secular organizations from offering something. Down below I suggest that local community colleges might schedule interesting courses in time slots the local HS kids can get to.
What's more, nothing really stops the elective from 'double dipping.' The fact that these kids must all take HS English doesn't stop organizations from offering a Shakespeare released time course.
I agree that this time could be used to the advantage of the students who don't participate in the Christian indoctrination. I like the ideas you presented, for sure. But I am being cynical, because the makeup of teachers in Oklahoma are probably Christian and will have a number that will see this as an opportunity to harass the minority students further. Especially at the elementary school level, Shakespeare or college courses would not be as useful, and the logistics of shuffling students around, it would end up the small groups of students not participating will be sent to the library or some random classroom to sit and wait for their peers to get back. Plus, I'm guessing that the districts and schools will have discretion regarding which programs will be able to take children, they can easily dismiss the ones that aren't part of the plan.
Two weeks before my debut as an actor, as Philostrate and a fairy, in Midsummer Night's Dream. I have been able to make the entire cast laugh hysterically during rehearsals, lets hope I can manage a laugh with an audience.
Well, "library" is an elementary school "special" in our county, so getting it instead of "bible bus to church" is fine by me and would effectively just be "getting the elective you were supposed to get before this release option was a thing." I wouldn't even rule out a well chaperoned P.E as a viable alternative; it's good to get the kids moving around. Learn some teamwork, get the heart pumping.
Since when did P.E. teach teamwork? It teaches the less athletically gifted that they aren't worth anything. I couldn't wait until I was allowed to quit in 6th grade.
Edit: Did you think all those miserable geeks in gym class tropes were exaggerated? They're not. Teaching the value of physical activity doesn't have to involve teaching competition, but it invariably does. The answer to low self-esteem in kids isn't participation trophies, it's no trophies. But the hypermasculine parents and 'teachers' can't stand that idea. Maybe instead of P.E. we should have more recess.
Gym class taught me that a team is only as good as its worst player. Which is why I chose to pursue karate, fencing and falconry. In those sports, you're only as good as you! (and your bird, but they're pretty much good to go right out of the box)
Teamwork can certainly be taught in gym, in elementary school. Our 3rd-grader literally yesterday did the 3-person weave drill for basketball. And no there is no invariable competition. My 7th grader t went in to running and rock climbing precisely because those sports provide him with groups that support people trying to aim for a personal best vs. trying to beat other people. Both sports *can* be competitive sure, but they (and many others) are not *invariably* so.
In any event, the topic is what could be offered as voluntary electives during released time. This is one such offering, and what I'm saying is that kids who want to take it would get something positive out of it. If other kids don't want to take such an elective during released time, I'm not saying 'force them into it.'
As for participation trophies...well I used to think they were bad. I'm coming around to them. With my parental experience in my kid's running, it isn't a bad thing to reward the kids for accomplishing a 'reach' goal like running a long race. The kid equivalent of those "13.1" bumper stickers lots of adults get...because they should rightly be proud of their achievement. But they should be "in addition to" any awards the event plans to give for top achievement, not "instead of".
Robots will be doing the burger flipping in the near future. They'll need technicians to keep the robots on task, but them Oklahoma kids won't be up for it. So you got a McD's with cleaner bots, cookbots, benders, and check-out bots and one highly educated tech to rule them all. So what do you do when all you have is a pen of unemployed sheep that can't tithe because they're unemployed? Bet they haven't thought about that!
Getting religious indoctrination during the school day is what Catechism is all about.
As a one-time Catholic, I got that same indoctrination when I was shuttled from my public school to the local parish church. You see the result of that. Something about leading a horse to water. :)
I'm still not sure if I was in love with my best friend in Jr. High and High School. I do know he set a type. I also wonder if what brought us together was that we were both gay, even if we didn't know it. I lost touch with him after he moved to live with his dad mid-way through Junior year. I regret that. I've often wondered what happened to him.
"It’s telling that LifeWise refuses to offer their classes before or after school. They want to waste part of the school day, dammit. They want to be a replacement for secular classes, not an addition to them."
This is part of their effort to eliminate secular public schooling altogether. It is their ultimate goal to privatize all education and only allow Christian schools to exist. It is part of the broader push towards theocratic authoritarianism so dear to the Christian Nationalists running the NSGOP. It is why they will never move off of their claim that separation of church and state is not in the constitution. Kudos to The Satanic Temple for these forceful reminders of that principle.
“This is part of their effort to eliminate secular public schooling altogether” 🔔 🛎️🔔🛎️🔔🛎️!!!!! Should be going off in every parent’s head
Yes, major alarms should be going off for them. Rural Missouri Republicans have openly talked about defunding public schools in Missouri.......Jess Piper talks about this on her substack.
Yeah, I have friends in Missouri (ones with a trans kid, who have spoken out in lege hearings) and I follow Jess.
Parents are going to start being proactive to inoculate their children from the religious attempts to take control of their children’s minds.
hear the low moan
From the foghorn of despair
As the expected exaltation
Of the god fearing
For the resurrection
To throw me and others
Different from them
Into the fiery pits of hell
The sign of the eclipse
Surely foretold the coming
Of the avenging warriors
Of their son god
Crickets chirp chirp
For me the sky is still
Mostly blue with artistic
White and dark could paintings
I still feel the warmth of
The sun on my face
Or hear the rhythmic beat
Of the nourishing rain
And it's only gotten worse since Carson v Makin in 2022. That completely reinforced christo-fascisim, white supremacy, and the acceleration of their desire to defund schools and libraries.
Soon we will rank right down there with El salvador, a country ran by the Catholics. The Christian nationalists are completely dumbing down this country.
As much as anything, measures like this serve to illustrate just how weak the Christian message ultimately is. Otherwise, they would not be so obsessed with indoctrinating children before they've reached the age of reason. Why is it ever acceptable to present things to children as facts, an educated adult would likely dismiss out of hand if hearing it for the first time? Oklahoma has some of the worst social metrics in the country. Their Christianity doesn't really translate into well being. They will dismiss these failures as the fault of those who were not TRUE Christians.
People are staying away from the churches and now the leaders are desperate. Parents are no longer taking kids to Sunday schools and so they have to infiltrate actual schools Monday to Friday. They're losing and they know it !
The churches are being distilled down to the true believers and fanatics. They will not go without a fight.
I read this a lot from posters, that they are losing members - but I swear it's getting worse, I swear they are gaining members, and these members are not your run of the mill church people - these cult members. I don't know if my feeling there is accurate or if it's just because I read more on these particular topics. All I know is - it cannot die fast enough!
That's right, the failures are caused by the sinners, they didn't pray hard enough, they disobeyed their dad or their husband, they didn't go to church enough, didn't give enough money to the church........lastly they will blame it on LBGTQ....... when all else fails just blame this community. Like they did Nex.
As an Oklahoman, I actually agree with this policy. If our children learn, then they might become smart enough to realize that they are in Oklahoma and then get the fuck out of my state. If that happens then who will work the menial minimum wage jobs? I shutter to think about it. So we can't have the children learning. We've tried to make the schools as awful as we can, but still there is a slim chance of accidental learning. We can't have that. So then why don't we just shorten the school day? But that might seem like a solution, but it runs its own risks. Some nerd might be sneak a text book instead of slinging fries. Again, any knowledge gained is productivity lost. So we have to shorten the school day and yet keep these children in an environment where learning is impossible. What better place than a church. And if they can get to a church, we'll bring the church to them.
I 𝑠ℎ𝑢𝑡𝑡𝑒𝑟 to think about it.
I see what you did there.
Holytape's comments are totally mind bottling. 😉
Nail on the head. 🔨
As long as there is one non-believer in Oklahoma, God will not bestow his blessings on us. It is imperative that we make all Oklahomans into God-fearing Christians. I mean, look at Oklahoma now. It's a Hellhole. We have atheists and homos and Demoncrats living openly. Coincidence? No! It's God's punishment for us allowing these vermin to remain in Oklahoma where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain, and the wavin' wheat can sure smell sweet, when the wind comes right behind the rain.
And then come the tornados!
𝐴𝑔𝑎𝑖𝑛, 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑘𝑛𝑜𝑤𝑙𝑒𝑑𝑔𝑒 𝑔𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑠 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑑𝑢𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑙𝑜𝑠𝑡.
Actually, knowledge gained is gullibility lost ... but you knew that already, didn't you? 😉
Why not both?
Because I'd rather GAIN productivity.
I meant why not gain BOTH knowledge and productivity?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt36AJHmcgA
OTOH, think of the potential population flow into the state! "Come to Oklahoma, where all our employers prefer your out-of-state diplomas/degrees to our in-state ones."
Better than their current slogan, "Come to Oklahoma, we were not technically Nebraska."
"The Bit Texas Rejected."
🤣😂🤣😁👏👏
This bill in particular is set up specifically to benefit LifeWise Academy, though. It was already leglal to have RTRI.
This is more Dominionist creep. They keep pushing and damaging public education. They want indoctrination, not education. The less time students spend in school, the less likely they are to develop critical thinking skills. And, spending time away from school in Lifewise Bible Classes is nothing but a chance to draw the kids into the cult. The Satanic Temple program looks to be OK, but being in school would be a better idea... unless your goal is a dumbed-down populace.
I think maybe a dumbed down populace is exactly what they want. The dumbed down populace is much easier for the authoritarian rulers to control, and the religious aspect of the indoctrination adds the threat of infinite torture for disobedience.
It's an Oklahoma High-Tech jobs program - for Californians.
The problem is, those kids with an inferior education will only be qualified for jobs that robots are poised to take over. Then what?
Every year that the owners can cut costs by using cheap easily replaced morons rather than expensive sunk cost robots is a win for them.
The TST also believes being in class is the best outcome. Their program is designed to be a credible program that defeats the Christian program by infuriating the bigots and force them to end it altogether. But they can only do that if their program is a real option, like the guy who tried it in Ohio but didn't provide a program didn't accomplish anything, they will. Often when the arguments against the TST focus on the inclusion of the word Satan in the name, folks focus so much on that they forget that the reason TST is there is not to provide a club, or class for the students, but to end the religiously privileged program altogether. They want to be offensive, while also providing something of value to argue they are legitimate, so that the liars and bigots lose their undeserved (and frankly, dangerous) access. The idea of taking children out of classes for religious and "ethical" studies is asinine on its face. Students get ethical training in schools, through reading programs, socializing, and many other ways that are far superior to the "obey the authority, aka God, or else" the religious teach. And there are plenty of opportunities outside of school hours to attend bible school for the religious learning, they just can't force non Christians into them.
TST believes in education, freethought and critical thinking. The evangelicals go for indoctrination, groupthink, and submission to authority.
The two couldn't be more different if they tried.
Exactly - they can't do that by being called the Rainbows and Unicorns Club. It just doesn't have the same shock value and effect.
You should have seen all the stuff on Facebook and news here in West Tennessee when TST came to the school in Memphis. NOT one person bothered to go to their website to even read anything about them, or Lucien. NOT one person bothered to investigate them to learn that they have nothing to do with this satanic church and Anthony LaVey.
So many ignorant people. No wonder why they so easily fall into cults.
I'm planning a vacation for us to the Northeast next year, going to make a pit stop in Salem.
I would like to add that I am truly worried about Dominionism. When I first heard about it 10-12 years ago, I just thought: Oh, silly, delusional pentecostalists. But the concept has spread to the rest of evangelical christianity. They have dreams of forcing the whole country to bow to their will and they vote and they are willing to cast their lot with fascists to bring their Theofascist country to fruition.
I don't recall being taught 'critical thinking skills,' I had to figure it out for myself. High school did offer a course in Logic, but I opted for Biology. Shoulda done both.
I figured it out for myself as well. But, given that it is useful to an educated citizenry, it should be taught and like all skills, exercised frequently.
I took logic, but in college. I always loved those "logic problems" in the puzzle magazines.
They are part of Project 2025. Funded by Patriot Moble among others.
It would seem as though the state of Oklahoma is bound and determined to violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, as it applies to its public schools. Indeed, with their "released time course" bill, they are encouraging just that. Just as certainly, they will scream bloody murder when The Satanic Temple unleashes their "hellions" upon the Sooner State as an alternative to the LifeWise Academy program.
Time to rev up the courtroom and plenty of lawyers, 'cuz here we go again!
The State of Oklahoma is run by religious nuts who think the establishment clause only prohibits Congress from declaring one particular denomination to be the official Church of the United States.
This, as they say in the vernacular, is intuitively obvious. What will make things interesting are the actions I would anticipate from The Satanic Temple and organizations such as the Freedom From Religion Foundation and American Atheists. It may not move the needle among Sooner State legislators, but it may make Oklahoma citizens THINK just a little bit.
And who knows? We might even get a court decision in our favor ... MAYBE.
The fact the state's economy is in the toilet, many of their children can't wait to escape the backwater, and those willing to stay can't find work, hasn't clued in the voters that their legislators are focused on the wrong 'problems'.
You just described every Republican state, especially in the south - but yet they keep voting for republicans. SMFH
Being racist is a way more important priority to them.
Didn't Oklahoma also approve a Catholic Charter School for a public school option recently, too? They're not trying to hide their intentions at all, are they.
Yes. Ryan "Death to trans kids" Walters pushed for it. I think it's still on hold pending the legal challenge.
The Satanic Temple will never be allowed to offer their morality course. The christianists will rise up and scream bloody murder. There will be calls for lynchings or other forms of murder and torture for anyone associated with the Satanic Temple. One of the first rules of the Republic of Gilead will be that NOBODY can disagree with the dominant religion. Other reichwing christians will initially band together with the Talibangelicals, but they will be suppressed as soon as Gilead comes to be.
Edit: added 'be' before "calls for lynchings"
It is terrifying and main reason why I want visit US again. Next summer we might get a visit from my sister in-law and my niece. If all ends well.
EDIT: I don't want to visit again. Yet.
IMO.... these release time courses are just a litmus test to see if they can sustain court battles - it's a foot in the door to eventually bring full-on religion into public schools.
"We will not allow Satanists to 'bully' their way into our schools."
Christianese for "That's OUR job, damn it!"
They want this to be seen in kids' minds as just another class. They want their fundamentalist nonsense placed on equal ground with math, science, history, and ELA.
I think, fortunately, they underestimate the kids...as well as university admissions staff. This might allow fundie parents to keep their kids from getting educated, but I expect nonfundie parents and kids wanting to boost their college application will just stay away from it, knowing that admissions staff will know exactly what 'released time course credit' means.
For now. No doubt this is the just the first salvo in the dominionist plan, with salvos two and three being "you can't allow those other kids to take meaningful classes during this time, otherwise our church kids will fall behind...," followed by "...so let's just make it mandatory for all kids."
TST is doing a good thing, but a better thing would be for the local community colleges to advertise courses available during released time, for college credit. The fundies would work extremely hard to try and prevent that (maybe harder than against TST!), because college credit from an accredited organization is something they don't want to compete against.
Exactly, full-on indoctrinization and religion in public schools is there ultimate goal. This release time is a litmus test. And, why wouldn't they - look at everything they've been able to accomplish do far. They've become so brazen on every topic, they don't even try to hide it anymore.
Learning about religions, what it is and the most important beliefs for the biggest religions should be a part of history class or social or cultural studies. Or something like that. Not teached as if the religions itself are a matter of fact.
Ever so much this^^^
OT - repukelicans never stop goosestepping
𝐂𝐨𝐥𝐨𝐫𝐚𝐝𝐨 𝐆𝐎𝐏 𝐂𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐬 𝐋𝐆𝐁𝐓𝐐+ 𝐏𝐞𝐨𝐩𝐥𝐞 '𝐆𝐫𝐨𝐨𝐦𝐞𝐫𝐬,' 𝐏𝐮𝐬𝐡𝐞𝐬 𝐓𝐨 𝐁𝐮𝐫𝐧 𝐏𝐫𝐢𝐝𝐞 𝐅𝐥𝐚𝐠𝐬
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/colorado-republicans-lgbtq-groomers-burn-pride-flags_n_6660ccc2e4b06a0c0d1f9c81
Say the "godly" who are forever grooming children (when their clergy aren't molesting/raping those children). I say we burn bibles.
How's THAT taste, cristers?
I once jokingly suggested to my brother that I planned to go into libraries and bookstores and demand that the Bible be placed in the "fiction" section.
Or in "Fantasy" in the Children's Section.
Nope....that shit's not suitable for children.
Or adults, for that matter, Sick sick sick.
Adults have the right to choose. :-)
Maybe it should be in the "food" section due to the part of Jesus instructing his followers to eat his flesh.
Or in "Horror." All that blood. Even drinking it and bathing in it.
The "folklore/mythology" section. The story (and that's exactly what it is) of Adam and Eve just screams it.
Except fantasies are fun!
Yes, under creation myths.
I'm fine with someone burning their own flags or whatever - assuming they're following local ordinances regarding fire/open burning/etc.
Burn my flag or anything else of mine without my consent and you're gonna have a bad time.
Yeah, if you want to burn a flag, you have to buy a flag first! Just like if you want to shoot at cans of bud light.
Particularly gross and disturbing in a state with a gay governor.
Honestly, the things they seem to have to say now to ginger up their base. It's totally fucking crazy.
Colorado is more Democratic-friendly than it's ever been (at least in my lifetime, and I'm pushing 50). Can't imagine why this kind of nonsense.
I've heard that CO is becoming bluer because people are leaving CA.
Groomers accusing others of grooming.
How very Nazi of these Christians.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/84ad1f12cb2a0aee583c49ab1dc387cd1add6d75934c4526f50050e4681efbad.jpg
It's projection on an IMAX level.
The person overseeing this crap, Dave Williams, might very well be a Member of Congress come January (he's running for a House seat). Wonderful.
Clarification: Williams is the state chairman of The Colorado Republican Party.
"... they can’t skip certain classes (like English or Math)."
But they are encouraged to skip certain other classes (like Biology, Civics, History, Art, Geography, ..) where they could be exposed to those wrong ideas like evolution, a secular constitution, the invention of agriculture more than 4000 years before the world was created, 20000 year old cave paintings, that the earth is not shaped like a disc ...
You are wrong. https://terrypratchett.com/explore-discworld/great-atuin-and-the-discworld/
OT: BLTs for dinner, minus the L and T.
You know how to live. :)
I had a T, but it had been in the fridge for a couple of weeks. I cut it open and it looked a little floopy so I tossed it.
I let the pros make my BLTs. I'd just botch the job.
Bake the bacon. Line a cookie sheet with aluminum foil. Lay out the bacon, and put the tray in a cold oven. Set the temp to 400 degrees. It will done in 20 to 30 minutes depending on how fast your oven heats up.
Easier to pay someone at an eatery to make one for me. They do all the work and I get the yummy reward.
And given the cost of the ingredients that go into a BLT, it's actually cheaper just to dine out. :)
And don't forget the straw for the bacon grease.
My cholesterol just shot up 10 points.
Chorizo omelette for me.
https://itdoesnttastelikechicken.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/quick-easy-vegan-bacon-recipe-tofu-720x1060.jpg
She prefers banana peels. 🤮
Smoking them or smoking them? ;)
How big do the rolling papers have to be to smoke banana peels?
Like the one found in Cheech & Chong's "Big Bambu" LP.
Oh my gosh, Hemant you are hysterical! Got my first laugh of the day reading:
"And there is nothing that requires those Bible studies to be academically rigorous in any meaningful way"
I got a Master of Divinity (Summa Cum Laude) from an academically rigorous Presbyterian seminary. I may as well have spent my time rigorously studying the Lord of the Rings!
Actually, I'm almost positive there are courses to do that. English teachers love to have you dissect stories looking for symbolism and hidden meanings. Only about a 3rd of it actually intended by the author.
I think that's why they still want to teach crap like 'The Sound and the Fury', 'The Great Gatsby', and 'The Red Badge of Courage'. None of them are interesting, much less gripping stories. Hell, a 'Tale of Two Cities' took an hour to get mildly interesting. Then you have writers like Stephen King, you add back 300 pages and the story is more interesting and better paced. (The abridged version of 'The Stand' took me 3 weeks to read. The unabridged, a week)
Yes, Tolkein was a far better author.
The Muslim and Jewish kids who won’t miss anything by not going to Big Christian indoctrination classes will go on to college or start a business while the bible kids will be flipping burgers at Mickey D’s for a living. The Christians want to keep their sheep in line by doubling down the dumbing down.
Note: I actually read this last night around 9:15. I was surprised to see no comments. When I tried to comment, I got an error message. Guess it was sent out in error.
I saw Hemant's early release of this article this morning, after he withdrew it. My guess is that it posted early for some reason.
The problem with that is that those students won't be learning anything more than the kids who leave. Why teach a class that you will only have to teach it over again for the majority of kids that weren't there the first time. Or if they do teach the class while the others aren't there, the next class when they are, they are just going back over the material. Plus, so often classes are taught to the lowest level in the class, rather than the middle and then provide further support for the extremes. The extra time the students who stay in class get could be used to advance their learning, and might in some cases. But in general, it will be used more like an opportunity to shame them into considering participating in the indoctrination, or a reason to leave the state altogether for being a durn foreigner. Just a reminder that they don't belong.
There are plenty of academic elective ideas that could be dropped into a released time period. Full credit to TST for actually doing the work, but nothing stops other educational or secular organizations from offering something. Down below I suggest that local community colleges might schedule interesting courses in time slots the local HS kids can get to.
What's more, nothing really stops the elective from 'double dipping.' The fact that these kids must all take HS English doesn't stop organizations from offering a Shakespeare released time course.
I agree that this time could be used to the advantage of the students who don't participate in the Christian indoctrination. I like the ideas you presented, for sure. But I am being cynical, because the makeup of teachers in Oklahoma are probably Christian and will have a number that will see this as an opportunity to harass the minority students further. Especially at the elementary school level, Shakespeare or college courses would not be as useful, and the logistics of shuffling students around, it would end up the small groups of students not participating will be sent to the library or some random classroom to sit and wait for their peers to get back. Plus, I'm guessing that the districts and schools will have discretion regarding which programs will be able to take children, they can easily dismiss the ones that aren't part of the plan.
Funny thing about Shakespeare... if you can understand the English of the day, much of Shakespeare is profanely funny!
It is profanely funny.
Two weeks before my debut as an actor, as Philostrate and a fairy, in Midsummer Night's Dream. I have been able to make the entire cast laugh hysterically during rehearsals, lets hope I can manage a laugh with an audience.
A fairy! Are you Titania? Maybe you should have a fairy name like me!
Well, "library" is an elementary school "special" in our county, so getting it instead of "bible bus to church" is fine by me and would effectively just be "getting the elective you were supposed to get before this release option was a thing." I wouldn't even rule out a well chaperoned P.E as a viable alternative; it's good to get the kids moving around. Learn some teamwork, get the heart pumping.
Since when did P.E. teach teamwork? It teaches the less athletically gifted that they aren't worth anything. I couldn't wait until I was allowed to quit in 6th grade.
Edit: Did you think all those miserable geeks in gym class tropes were exaggerated? They're not. Teaching the value of physical activity doesn't have to involve teaching competition, but it invariably does. The answer to low self-esteem in kids isn't participation trophies, it's no trophies. But the hypermasculine parents and 'teachers' can't stand that idea. Maybe instead of P.E. we should have more recess.
Gym class taught me that a team is only as good as its worst player. Which is why I chose to pursue karate, fencing and falconry. In those sports, you're only as good as you! (and your bird, but they're pretty much good to go right out of the box)
Teamwork can certainly be taught in gym, in elementary school. Our 3rd-grader literally yesterday did the 3-person weave drill for basketball. And no there is no invariable competition. My 7th grader t went in to running and rock climbing precisely because those sports provide him with groups that support people trying to aim for a personal best vs. trying to beat other people. Both sports *can* be competitive sure, but they (and many others) are not *invariably* so.
In any event, the topic is what could be offered as voluntary electives during released time. This is one such offering, and what I'm saying is that kids who want to take it would get something positive out of it. If other kids don't want to take such an elective during released time, I'm not saying 'force them into it.'
As for participation trophies...well I used to think they were bad. I'm coming around to them. With my parental experience in my kid's running, it isn't a bad thing to reward the kids for accomplishing a 'reach' goal like running a long race. The kid equivalent of those "13.1" bumper stickers lots of adults get...because they should rightly be proud of their achievement. But they should be "in addition to" any awards the event plans to give for top achievement, not "instead of".
I hated PE, all those dumb sports, where they teach you that a guy who can throw a ball, is more important than the best academic.
Robots will be doing the burger flipping in the near future. They'll need technicians to keep the robots on task, but them Oklahoma kids won't be up for it. So you got a McD's with cleaner bots, cookbots, benders, and check-out bots and one highly educated tech to rule them all. So what do you do when all you have is a pen of unemployed sheep that can't tithe because they're unemployed? Bet they haven't thought about that!
That's one reason why they are setting them up to be future terrorists now.
And if you keep them ignorant enough, they never know about the "Night of the Long Knives"!
https://wallpapercave.com/wp/wp4547072.jpg
Lol
Nothing but a grooming pedophile enabling act. Won't be long before the kiddie diddling rate skyrockets in NOT OK and nary a drag queen in sight.
We know how that will work out. Unlicensed groomer drops his pants and tells the kiddie “Show me where the man touched you.”
OT
BHm's account has been sabotaged AGAIN! Twice in one day? This is no glitch. It's a freaking vendetta.
From Hemant just now: "We're working on it!"
Okay, this has gone too far. I can't see a damned thing that should even remotely earn BHm's comments a ban, yet here we are yet again.
Hemant, if you're listening, it's time Substack was read the Riot Act!
Excellent. Glad to hear it. 👍
PEEK!
OT
Heads up, everyone. It looks like BHm's new account just got banned. Again. WTF is going on?
I don't know, but I DO mean to write Hemant about it. She's a wonderful contributor to this blog and doesn't deserve such treatment.
I hope Hemant resolves the issue as quickly as he did the last time (we know it's not him removing her comments and cancelling her account).
My guess would be someone you reported to Hemant has access to do it or access to someone who can.
I would love to know why. Maybe someone is offended by the fact that you speak a language that isn't English! 😝
I love that she teaches us conversational French.
In any case, I heard back from Hemant, and he says he's working on it ... and I sure as hell take him at his word!
Hope Hemant put in safeguards to prevent future shenanigans.
looks like a third time as well.
Edit, I was wrong, she's still kicking with the most recent account.
You keep showing up Jesus by dying and quickly returning. :D
Et nous vous aimons.
Hear-freaking-HEAR!!!
There she is again! EXCELLENT! Wrote Hemant about your situation. I hope he can take effective action.
But why did your accounts get banner? Are there some trolls out there?
Getting religious indoctrination during the school day is what Catechism is all about.
As a one-time Catholic, I got that same indoctrination when I was shuttled from my public school to the local parish church. You see the result of that. Something about leading a horse to water. :)
I went to Catholic school from kindergarten through high school graduation. And I'm here along with you. With a few more marks from the nuns' hands.
Mine have mostly faded. The hatred of froggy has not.
???
https://lordheath.com/web_images/billy_froggy_laughlin_helping_hands.jpg
By 6th grade I was whiling away church time wondering if that huge jesus statue was anatomically correct, and fantasizing about Chuck
Did you ever find out if Chuck felt the same way?
I'm still not sure if I was in love with my best friend in Jr. High and High School. I do know he set a type. I also wonder if what brought us together was that we were both gay, even if we didn't know it. I lost touch with him after he moved to live with his dad mid-way through Junior year. I regret that. I've often wondered what happened to him.
Time well spent. :)