OB-GYN Heather Pugmire says the abortion ban makes compassionate care harder, but the Mormon Church’s position on Prop 1 has her “torn” about what to do
The inability to anticipate consequences seems to be one of the defining characteristics of conservatism. As for the pro-life crowd, they're really only pro-life on one issue and that's more about controlling women than any concern they have for the unborn. More often than not, they quit caring about mother and child the minute the child is born. They're opposed to universal healthcare, pro death penalty, opposed to sensible gun laws and never met a war they didn't love.
Men don't have abortions, and it's almost entirely men who make the decisions, political and religious, for the LDS church. With the Mormon attitude of patriarchal dominance of men over women, their opposition to Prop One was all but automatic.
Yet Dr. Pugmire decided that enough was too much in her home state. I hope she is listened to.
I want to jump in here at the top and put this link in everyones' hands. It is the link to the documentary 'Corruptionland'. It is powerful. If you agree, spread it far and wide.
Even in this case, I get the distinct sense that Dr. Pugmire is vitally concerned about the current law's severe negative effects...𝑜𝑛 𝑑𝑜𝑐𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑠.
Which I guess is better than not caring at all. But really, it shouldn't require "I can't keep working 24/7 to make up for the loss of Ob/Gyns" before you reach the pro-choice position. Pro-choice is the moral position because of human rights, not because it allows doctors to legally practice their profession.
But, their prophets get their revelations directly from their god on Kolob. He obviously wants women to carry these pregnancies no matter the risk to her life... In medical school our OB/GYN professor started the 1 year class with the words: "Pregnancy is a pathological state". 'Died in childbirth' was a common epitaph on tombstones.
Mor(m)ons should talk to actual scientists/astronomers. Kolob, be it a planet or a star, simply doesn’t exist. Just like their revelations, it’s a load of hooey.
Yes, she's a leopards eating faces voter like the rest of them. Before the church's position affected her job, she was fine with it. Now that it's putting stress on her career, she's suddenly in support of Roe-adjacent protections.
My Jewish GYN and I would laugh over how Christians (Catholics to be precise) forced the sugar pill “break” into birth control pills. Having a fake period was very important to them…
Why was she 100% yes for it? Because she is a medical professional with compassion. Why is she wavering now? Because the Mormon cruelty is central to her faith. For her sake, I hope compassion wins over cruelty in her cognitive dissonance battle brought on by her indoctrination.
I feel pretty sure her personal vote is going in support. The podcast etc. sounds to me like a bit of political theater - exaggerating her internal conflict as a way of communicating to other conflicted Mormons that it's okay to vote in favor of the change.
I'd bet the personal conflict is there. Given a choice, Christians will put their religion before anything else, including their own family members. (I'm quite aware of that when my so-called liberal Christian family members all disowned me.)
I reposted to a political site the article Mr. Mehta had yesterday on the Vatican upholding the excommunication of a deacon over his son being sexually assaulted by a priest, and got a cavalcade of scorn over how I "hate Christians."
People are irrational, I guess. These events happened - if you're RCC (or even a non-RCC christian who thinks this reflects on their faith) you can either own it as justifiable or voice your objection to it as unjustifiable. But either way, killing the messenger doesn't change what the church did.
Duh is what I have to say. Still, Idaho will probably vote for abortion protections in their ballot initiative and ALSO vote for Republicans down the ballot. Great to see this Dr. speak up, but unfortunate she’s still “torn” on the matter at hand. We’ve been screaming from the rooftops for decades and told we were overreacting.
I hate to say it, but the doc may need to see a couple of cases of eclampsia and uterine abruption to convince her that the Republican party does not have either her or any other woman's best interests at heart.
You are probably right. What we are witnessing now in many states is the harm from the “elective abortion” divide LIES “pro-lifers” have been peddling for so long. It’s a wake up call for those who thought they were the exception to the cruelty because they “wanted” their baby. All abortions are technically “elective”!
I've said it many times: pregnancy is, by it's very nature, a lossy process with all sorts of landmines on the 40-week pathway between fertilization and live birth. The men of the Mormon church who insist that abortion is a crime and a sin apparently care less about the women in their lives than they do about Mormon dogma.
The frequently made observation that Republicans don't care about an issue until it impacts them personally is more than apt here. One wonders if one of their wives having an emergency circumstance during a pregnancy requiring radical obstetric procedures might possibly change their minds.
Not that I would wish that on any woman, but it may be what it takes to wake these fools up.
Yeah, you're probably right about how Idahoans will vote.
Which makes Hemant's "...If that side wins, and Republicans don’t pass another law to undo the decision..." a big concern. It's entirely possible that the people will vote for the initiative while also voting for a representative who will support quashing that initiative in the next legislative session.
They should look at Missouri as case example. They tried to have their cake and eat it too and it’s not panning out well for them. Republicans have spent the last few years trying to undo their ballot initiative on abortion (will of the people?). I believe they even proposed a new abortion ballot initiative (ban) for the midterms, so they must vote on it again!
When will the average Mormon get it that those in the hierarchy of the LDS church are HUMAN BEINGS, with no more connection to some pretend supernatural agency than the average Joe is. Once again, indoctrination is one hell of a drug, and badly in need of an anti-agent.
A doctor who is "torn" over life/rights for women? Maybe Pugmeyer should seek a different career away from medicine. I wouldn't want her as my doctor, were I a woman.
Hey Mor(m)ons! Why do you think it is acceptable to impose your religiously motivated morality on those who do not share your faith? In your own history, you have been on the receiving end of laws imposing religious rules that you did not share. How did your memory get so short?
Stripping women of their right to agency in controlling their own bodies was NEVER a good idea in the first place. Idaho went totally overboard with their anti-abortion ruling, making things far worse. Now, with the LDS church in Idaho opposing Prop One, we have a voice in the wilderness, one Dr. Heather Pugmire, who has sufficient common sense to recognize that things have gone entirely too far.
Will she be heard? I guess we'll find out this Tuesday. Best wishes to her and Prop One.
The inability to anticipate consequences seems to be one of the defining characteristics of conservatism. As for the pro-life crowd, they're really only pro-life on one issue and that's more about controlling women than any concern they have for the unborn. More often than not, they quit caring about mother and child the minute the child is born. They're opposed to universal healthcare, pro death penalty, opposed to sensible gun laws and never met a war they didn't love.
Men don't have abortions, and it's almost entirely men who make the decisions, political and religious, for the LDS church. With the Mormon attitude of patriarchal dominance of men over women, their opposition to Prop One was all but automatic.
Yet Dr. Pugmire decided that enough was too much in her home state. I hope she is listened to.
I want to jump in here at the top and put this link in everyones' hands. It is the link to the documentary 'Corruptionland'. It is powerful. If you agree, spread it far and wide.
https://www.corruptionland.org
I've seen the trailer, well worth watching, now waiting to watch the documentary.
Thanks! And while you're at it, add some laughter, people, because Laughter IS the New Resistance!(TM)
https://DictatorForADayShow.com
Even in this case, I get the distinct sense that Dr. Pugmire is vitally concerned about the current law's severe negative effects...𝑜𝑛 𝑑𝑜𝑐𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑠.
Which I guess is better than not caring at all. But really, it shouldn't require "I can't keep working 24/7 to make up for the loss of Ob/Gyns" before you reach the pro-choice position. Pro-choice is the moral position because of human rights, not because it allows doctors to legally practice their profession.
But, their prophets get their revelations directly from their god on Kolob. He obviously wants women to carry these pregnancies no matter the risk to her life... In medical school our OB/GYN professor started the 1 year class with the words: "Pregnancy is a pathological state". 'Died in childbirth' was a common epitaph on tombstones.
Mor(m)ons should talk to actual scientists/astronomers. Kolob, be it a planet or a star, simply doesn’t exist. Just like their revelations, it’s a load of hooey.
Sure it does, but you can only see it from Narnia.
👆👆👆👆👆👆👆
My cousin is part of the Wilson cult in Idaho. I keep waiting to hear that one of her kids -- or grandkids -- has died due these laws.
And the - children - would suffer for what their parents do - very old testament.
Republicans and Christians have made it very clear where they stand on women. They mainly stand on womens throats.
They really want the rigid social hierarchy of the 1850s, when white men owned everything, white women were accessories, and POC were livestock.
💯
𝐷𝑖𝑑 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡 𝑛𝑜𝑤 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑧𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐶ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ’𝑠 𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 ℎ𝑎𝑠 𝑎𝑙𝑤𝑎𝑦𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑒𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑏𝑎𝑑?
Yes, she's a leopards eating faces voter like the rest of them. Before the church's position affected her job, she was fine with it. Now that it's putting stress on her career, she's suddenly in support of Roe-adjacent protections.
Necessity is a mother, ain't it? 😝
A religious doctor is a doctor I'd never want to have!
My Jewish GYN and I would laugh over how Christians (Catholics to be precise) forced the sugar pill “break” into birth control pills. Having a fake period was very important to them…
𝐼 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑎 100% 𝑦𝑒𝑠 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑖𝑡 𝑢𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑙 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ 𝑚𝑎𝑑𝑒 𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡. 𝑁𝑜𝑤 𝐼’𝑚 𝑞𝑢𝑖𝑡𝑒 𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑛.
Why was she 100% yes for it? Because she is a medical professional with compassion. Why is she wavering now? Because the Mormon cruelty is central to her faith. For her sake, I hope compassion wins over cruelty in her cognitive dissonance battle brought on by her indoctrination.
I feel pretty sure her personal vote is going in support. The podcast etc. sounds to me like a bit of political theater - exaggerating her internal conflict as a way of communicating to other conflicted Mormons that it's okay to vote in favor of the change.
I'd bet the personal conflict is there. Given a choice, Christians will put their religion before anything else, including their own family members. (I'm quite aware of that when my so-called liberal Christian family members all disowned me.)
I reposted to a political site the article Mr. Mehta had yesterday on the Vatican upholding the excommunication of a deacon over his son being sexually assaulted by a priest, and got a cavalcade of scorn over how I "hate Christians."
People are irrational, I guess. These events happened - if you're RCC (or even a non-RCC christian who thinks this reflects on their faith) you can either own it as justifiable or voice your objection to it as unjustifiable. But either way, killing the messenger doesn't change what the church did.
Bet she was also torn about voting for Trump, but she was obedient to the Elders.
A Hobson's Choice. She chooses God...and everybody loses.
Duh is what I have to say. Still, Idaho will probably vote for abortion protections in their ballot initiative and ALSO vote for Republicans down the ballot. Great to see this Dr. speak up, but unfortunate she’s still “torn” on the matter at hand. We’ve been screaming from the rooftops for decades and told we were overreacting.
I hate to say it, but the doc may need to see a couple of cases of eclampsia and uterine abruption to convince her that the Republican party does not have either her or any other woman's best interests at heart.
You are probably right. What we are witnessing now in many states is the harm from the “elective abortion” divide LIES “pro-lifers” have been peddling for so long. It’s a wake up call for those who thought they were the exception to the cruelty because they “wanted” their baby. All abortions are technically “elective”!
And “God” performs 1/3 of them, because the conceptus never implants, and the person goes out with the monthly menstrual period.
I've said it many times: pregnancy is, by it's very nature, a lossy process with all sorts of landmines on the 40-week pathway between fertilization and live birth. The men of the Mormon church who insist that abortion is a crime and a sin apparently care less about the women in their lives than they do about Mormon dogma.
The frequently made observation that Republicans don't care about an issue until it impacts them personally is more than apt here. One wonders if one of their wives having an emergency circumstance during a pregnancy requiring radical obstetric procedures might possibly change their minds.
Not that I would wish that on any woman, but it may be what it takes to wake these fools up.
Yeah, you're probably right about how Idahoans will vote.
Which makes Hemant's "...If that side wins, and Republicans don’t pass another law to undo the decision..." a big concern. It's entirely possible that the people will vote for the initiative while also voting for a representative who will support quashing that initiative in the next legislative session.
They should look at Missouri as case example. They tried to have their cake and eat it too and it’s not panning out well for them. Republicans have spent the last few years trying to undo their ballot initiative on abortion (will of the people?). I believe they even proposed a new abortion ballot initiative (ban) for the midterms, so they must vote on it again!
The xtian sect founded by a racist, polygamous, child molesting conman is going to talk about morality/moral consequences? Seriously?
Carpetbagging LDS is at it again. It's past time to tell them to keep their noses out of the affairs of other states.
So we should feel bad for her that she’s in a quandary over mythology vs. reality?
"I absolutely believe in prophets. I do believe they receive revelation. I do believe that they speak out on important things."
There's your first three mistakes.
When will the average Mormon get it that those in the hierarchy of the LDS church are HUMAN BEINGS, with no more connection to some pretend supernatural agency than the average Joe is. Once again, indoctrination is one hell of a drug, and badly in need of an anti-agent.
A doctor who is "torn" over life/rights for women? Maybe Pugmeyer should seek a different career away from medicine. I wouldn't want her as my doctor, were I a woman.
"𝑊ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑒 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐶ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ 𝑜𝑓 𝐽𝑒𝑠𝑢𝑠 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝐿𝑎𝑡𝑡𝑒𝑟-𝑑𝑎𝑦 𝑆𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑡𝑠 𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑠 𝑛𝑒𝑢𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑙 𝑡𝑜𝑤𝑎𝑟𝑑 𝑝𝑜𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙 𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑑𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑠, 𝑖𝑡 𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑙𝑦 𝑎𝑑𝑑𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑒𝑠 𝑏𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑜𝑡 𝑖𝑛𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑠 𝑖𝑡 𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑠 𝑐𝑎𝑟𝑟𝑦 𝑠𝑖𝑔𝑛𝑖𝑓𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑡 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑎𝑙 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑒𝑞𝑢𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒𝑠," 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐿𝐷𝑆 𝐶ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ 𝑤𝑟𝑜𝑡𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑎 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡.
Hey Mor(m)ons! Why do you think it is acceptable to impose your religiously motivated morality on those who do not share your faith? In your own history, you have been on the receiving end of laws imposing religious rules that you did not share. How did your memory get so short?
If you look at history it is so apparent and frustrating to see how the persecuted become the persecuters once they get the chance.
Stripping women of their right to agency in controlling their own bodies was NEVER a good idea in the first place. Idaho went totally overboard with their anti-abortion ruling, making things far worse. Now, with the LDS church in Idaho opposing Prop One, we have a voice in the wilderness, one Dr. Heather Pugmire, who has sufficient common sense to recognize that things have gone entirely too far.
Will she be heard? I guess we'll find out this Tuesday. Best wishes to her and Prop One.
Who knew? Doctors don’t want to live and work in Gilead.
“under his eye”.
She needs some faith to do the right thing and tell the church to pound sand. Let Doctors be Doctors.
OT before reading:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DeuVB8hirv_/?srtk=MTNtYTRrNDdhcGl5OQ==