There is two definitions. The modern one is a regular person following a monastery or convent rules without taking the oaths.
The interesting one is the historical one. It was children offered to a monastery/convent by their parents who'd have to become monks or nuns wether they want it nor not.
Ok. I have enough. From now I will block you. How dare you post this insulting and vulgar thing called maths to answer one of my comments ? I know you are a prankster but there should be limits !
If xtians are the purveyors of ultimate morality, then we should see a mass exodus from the AoG.
Bet we don't. Those who still attend services are just as guilty as those who physically committed the abuse. The devout are aiding and abetting criminals.
As long as people are afraid of death and terrified of hell, these snake-oil peddlers will continue to do a thriving business of separating marks from their money.
This particular denomination does not do snake handing, but they do speak in tongues. They claim that the Holy Spirit fills them and allows them to be able to do it. As an atheist and former Pentecostal with that denomination, I now know that it's nonsense, and I can still do it knowing what it really is.
I’m up very early this morning, and this is what greets me. God-I-don’t-believe-in help me, but I have a lot to say.
First and foremost, before anything else, one thing that we absolutely know about the sexual abuse of children, like most other sex offenses, is that it is vastly under-reported. 200 pastors over 50 years? I don’t buy that for a moment. I would want to know what gets designated as a pastor, as opposed to professional Christian, as opposed to professional teacher in a christian school, as opposed to the music minister who isn’t a pastor, as opposed to the pastor’s brother who helps out in the church with the kids.
And you can tell also that if their attitude was 30 years ago, “let’s not talk about it and it’ll go away “, or “make sure the pastor apologizes to the ceiling for his faithlessness, adulterous thoughts, fornication thoughts, perverted thoughts, and besides, victim she or victim he was 16 or 17 years old so it almost doesn’t even count”, there’s a lot more going on here.
I have been informally studying this subject for nearly 50 years, and I’m absolutely certain that there’s a lot more going on here. Although the terminology is old, nearly 50 years ago there was a distinction made between people who were “fixed pedophiles” – people who were definitely oriented towards children, and “regressed pedophiles”— people whose orientation may have been primarily towards adults, but situationally found themselves abusing kids. But the thing is, the age of those kids. I have a suspicion that a lot of regressed pedophiles were picking on adolescents and teenagers because they aren’t small children. Pubic hair and developed genitalia.
That doesn’t make it better, it just doesn’t make them as disgusting.
For the last few years, when I ever come up with yet another child molesting pastor, music minister, youth minister, pastor adjacent person, or professional/political Christian, I have written to the authors of that article urging them to do exactly what NBC has done. But as a gay man, I have a little extra twist on the subject.
This is the story, far more than the sexual abuse of kids by men of God. For decades, for all of my adult life, I have been listening to the religious right accused gay people, especially gay men of being sexual predators, dangerous to children, child molesters. I’ve been listening to this garbage for nearly 60 years, because I’m that fucking old. If you Google the subject, you will find every year that there are a few gay men and occasional lesbians who have been arrested, or convicted, or sentenced for crimes against children. But if you Google pastors plus sexual abuse, or Catholic priests plus sexual abuse, you will get literally hundreds of thousands of hits.
Every single goddamn year.
The Boy Scouts were no different. I worked for them 50 years ago, but I only lasted a few months because of the unrelenting homophobia everywhere. I didn’t want to get caught up in any scandal simply because I was a gay man. I had no interest in kids, even teenagers that I was only a few years older than. For decades, the scouts had a problem with sexual abuse, which for decades they tried to blame on gay men, and for decades they covered it up and shifted scoutmasters around and did everything that the Catholic Church did. But the thing was, openly gay men and boys were not allowed in the scouts. So who was doing the molesting? Men who were considered by the scouts, their communities, their families, their wives, and above all, themselves TO BE HETEROSEXUAL. Most likely regressed pedophiles, every single one of them.
Not gay. Just opportunists. Do you know why youth pastors molest kids? Because the youth ministry is where the kids are.
This is the story. The very people who are the guardians of morality, youth, innocence, and purity were the ones doing the molesting. They were the ones doing the coverups. They were the ones accusing gay people are doing what we gay people are not doing. They are the ones shouting from their steeple tops that gay people are a danger, drag queens are a danger, transgender people are a danger. They were molesting, lying, slandering, reviling, abusing, covering up, lying lying lying lying lying. Again and again and again.
Can you say projection? I certainly can.
And they are still doing it. And they’re still getting away with it. And almost as bad as what they are doing, is the fact that what they are doing is allowing the problem of the sexual abuse of children to continue by constantly pointing fingers at other people.
.....“let’s not talk about it and it’ll go away".... Unless you're old you won't understand that one didn't question any authority figure 50yrs ago. Teachers, police, doctors, clergy, youth leaders of Scouts etc would always be believed. That's how so many got away with abuse. Children wouldn't generally make a complaint as they'd be immediately accused of lying about a fine upstanding authority figure. My (good) parents would have been shocked to hear their child whom they'd taught to be truthful, telling such awful and embarrassing things about any authority figure if I'd reported any incident of inappropriate behaviour. I'd probably have got a rare slap on the leg for lying. And of course had I ever had to report inappropriate touching by an adult, I'd have died of embarrassment, we didn't use or even know the correct anatomical words for our intimate body parts. The authority figures dealing with accusations would always believe adults over children who could 'make up fanciful stories' and had wicked natures. I'm delighted my small g/kids know the correct anatomical names for their genitalia and whom to report any incident of inappropriate behaviour to, and that they'd be believed and matters investigated immediately.
The principal of a Catholic school punched a kid (teen) in the face when he was trying to report abuse by one of the priests. This was in the early 80s. So, yeah.
Anecdote. We visited my grandma for 2 weeks every summer in the 50sand 60s. She lived 200 miles away, where my dad had grown up. We always spent one day in those two weeks with my dad's old college friend whom I called Uncle Will who lived nearby. One year, we went to his house and I went upstairs to the bathroom. Coming out, Will was outside the door, he grabbed me and gave me slobbery kisses. Terrified, I wriggled free and ran downstairs, trying to look normal because, if asked if I was OK, I couldn't have told his wife and family and my parents what he'd just done. I sat close to my mum, grateful that we'd not see him again till the next annual visit. I was 11yo, My dad and grandma both died before that, so I didn't ever see Will again. Fast forward 60yrs, By coincidence, my hubby's job took us to live in Will's region but I had no reason to go to his village until our neighbour's funeral was held there. In the pub for the Wake, I said to some locals I'd visited the house of a Will X years before, you could see it from the pub. Cynical laughter broke out. They said, 'The Deputy Head of the High School? That lech? Girls knew not to ever be alone with him.' I was learning he'd been a sexual predator for decades but no one knew how to stop him, other than advise girls never to be alone with him. He had 2 daughters my age, I now wonder what horrors they lived through in their childhoods. And how many thousands, or millions, suffered similarly in past centuries.
Because children who are almost adults don't count as children. After all, they are fully capable of pushing babies out the hoohaw. And committing the crime before finding Jesus certainly doesn't count, since finding Jesus always makes a person incapable of such a crime. Nevermind the fact that when they let sex offenders out of prison, they aren't allowed to be teachers if they found Jesus. It's not the same thing at all, it's only a position of trust and authority over children.
Conviction of a sex crime should bar anyone from ministerial credentials. Credible accusations should bar anyone from ministerial credentials. Why can't they understand this simple thing that would protect children? Indoctrination is one hell of a drug.
This is the denomination of Swaggert and Bakker. They have had public sex scandals since the 80s. They should be able to figure this out.
"Ministers need to be BANNED?" How about: "Ministers need to be ARRESTED and INDICTED!" This business of forgiveness being equivalent to a pardon needs to STOP NOW.
Forgiveness is NOT a "get out of jail free" card. Even the Bible mentions about God, through people, punishing those who feign repentance just to seek "forgiveness" only to go back to their sinful ways once the "pardon" has been given.
Problem is that not only is forgiveness treated as a "Get Out of Jail Free" card, it is too often employed in lieu of actual criminal PUNISHMENT. Personally, I'm sick and tired of reading about offending priests / pastors / ministers / whatever, doing the Jimmy Swaggart routine, and then as you say, going right back to what they were doing.
The problem with all conservative church institutions is authoritarianism.
Authoritarian systems will ALWAYS lead to abuse. You cannot trust people with the sort of power pastors or priests have. You have to have independent oversight and zero tolerance policies when it comes to abusers.
You cannot trust institutions to police themselves. They will always, always, ALWAYS focus on what is best for the organization.
Any authoritarian institution will be rife with abuse and abusers. It is the perfect hunting ground for them. People within the organization are conditioned for obedience and respect to authority above all else.
Yet another reason separation of church and state is essential. The State being the institution to keep the churches accountable.
This is why any and all investigatons into charges of child molestation by clergy and others need to be taken out of the hands of the offending church and placed where they rightly belong: in the hands of the civil authorities. Churches have routinely shown they aren't up to task. Stop placing foxes in front of the henhouses. It never ends well.
If there is an upside to stories like this it is that, at long last, the clergy's victims are being listened to. Sexual predators were allowed to hide behind their Bibles and clerical collars for far too long.
Honestly, I'm beginning to think that, the harder they thump their bibles, the more skeletons they have in their closets. Worse, they make unfounded assertions that they will control those pastors who act out, then proceed to do NOTHING.
So we have Catholic priests, Seventh-Day leaders, Baptist and other evangelical preachers and now, representatives of the Assembly of God, with leaders of their respective churches ABUSING CHILDREN.
I want to know just WHEN local, state, and federal law enforcement is going to recognize that a priest's collar is not the guarantor of decent behavior and too often quite the opposite.
"They avoided doing thorough background checks or reporting their own to local law enforcement, fearing it would expose them to legal liability and go against the biblical idea of forgiveness."
The concept of christian forgiveness is based on the principle on sincere repentance from the culprit/sinner. How is it possible that I know that and not them ? Not counting the christian denominations that worked hand in hand with the justice system to enforce sentences while giving spiritual pardons.
"have taken some steps to decrease the problem (while actively pushing back against more serious steps)"
Typical christian PR, it may as well be called a tradition.
"As if she was the problem rather than the alleged abuser."
Of course she was. She has a vagina ! A vagina !!!
"[The survivor] offered a simple first step: “Stop giving the lawyers a vote.”
I would say giving the lawyers a vote is only part of the problem. They saw how well hiding their heads in their asses worked for other christian sects, and yet, not only they are doing the same exact thing, but they are doubling down.
"How is it possible that I know that and not them ?"
They know. They just have a much lower bar for determining what "sincerely repentance" is. This is the denomination of Jimmy Swaggert, the type specimen for the Public Apology to the Ceiling.
“But there was pushback from people who wondered if ministers needed to be banned if they abused “16- and 17-year-olds without having intercourse” or committed the crime before finding Jesus. The delegates handed the question to lawyers to make sure they couldn’t be sued if they withheld credentials from accused predators, and the leaders of the denomination voted down the idea two years later, partly because they felt it would be unfair to predators who committed “relatively minor” acts of abuse before becoming born again.”
So, when they show you who they are, you give them access to situations and victims to prove it again? What’s relatively minor abuse? Pulling wings off flies leads to setting cats on fire, which leads to beating their girlfriends and wives. There’s no minor abuse when it comes to the victims of abuse. Especially when the abuse is sexual in nature, but all of it is damaging and irreversible.
Our society has a problem with trying to give the benefit of the doubt to perpetrators of heinous sex crimes, even when they clearly don’t deserve it, but then further abuse the victims by blaming them, ignoring their pleas, accusing them of slinging false accusations, and ruining their lives. This is case in point, the example in the article about the victim going to the church and the response was that she had demons. This is typical of how we treat these crimes. Brock Turner’s victim received more hate than he did at first and by the media and judge, she faced victim blaming and accused of coming on to him despite her being drugged and unconscious, he was assumed innocent by those who should know better when he was caught red handed.
Assemblies of God chose to protect predators over victims by refusing to adopt a policy of not giving ministerial certification to people who have a history of abuse. A 16-17 year old deserves to be protected from predatory men as much as a 5 year old does. There’s no excuse to say, “well they’re almost legal and there wasn’t sex.” It is still wrong and the perps won’t change. You are complicit. Stop preying on teen girls, they deserve a chance to grow up safely.
Hey, this harlot asked for it, the poor lil' abuser didn't enjoyed his steaks anymore, all thanks to a female who dared going out without a male chaperone.
“It’s clear that the denomination is more concerned about its bottom line than the people who make up their congregations.”
That’s all denominations of all religions, some make it more obvious than others. But it was clearly demonstrated by the recent contretemps resulting from the woman calling around for baby formula. While some were happy to give freely, most were more concerned about her status in their church and how well she contributes rather than the actual need of the baby. Those that did give, could prove me wrong, but dig deeper and they probably won’t. But I am cynical.
"In interviews with NBC News, they described being molested in a church van. Stalked in a church nursery. Raped with a statue of Jesus plucked from a mantle. Told to repent."
Not a single drag queen involved. No LGBTQs, either.
Why, you'd think that child grooming was an exclusively xtian practice.
Exactly! Thank you NOGODZ20
You're very welcome. Pretty much guaranteed that most here had the same thought.
You were raised catholic, right ?
Have you ever heard of the word "oblate" ?
I thought you were going to talk about football and its oblate spheroid.
Norway qualified to World Championship yeasterday. First time since app 30 years ago.
I have, but neither my parents nor the church ever really described it to us and I'd already stopped believing.
There is two definitions. The modern one is a regular person following a monastery or convent rules without taking the oaths.
The interesting one is the historical one. It was children offered to a monastery/convent by their parents who'd have to become monks or nuns wether they want it nor not.
Yep. Oblate is Latin for "one offered up."
There's actually a third, completely secular definition. In geometry, oblate is "(of a spheroid) flattened at the poles." :)
Ok. I have enough. From now I will block you. How dare you post this insulting and vulgar thing called maths to answer one of my comments ? I know you are a prankster but there should be limits !
Hee hee! I a deviwish wittle wascal. :D
The historical definition shows that the religion never could stand on its own. It needs starvation, it needs force, it needs suppression!
Indeed.
If xtians are the purveyors of ultimate morality, then we should see a mass exodus from the AoG.
Bet we don't. Those who still attend services are just as guilty as those who physically committed the abuse. The devout are aiding and abetting criminals.
As long as people are afraid of death and terrified of hell, these snake-oil peddlers will continue to do a thriving business of separating marks from their money.
It is just about that simple.
This is the 'speaking in tongues' and snake handlers crowd . These are not people used to thinking.
This particular denomination does not do snake handing, but they do speak in tongues. They claim that the Holy Spirit fills them and allows them to be able to do it. As an atheist and former Pentecostal with that denomination, I now know that it's nonsense, and I can still do it knowing what it really is.
Blufregkblatherglagumgfredoc
Holy Rollers
Wonder if they ever hold church services in skating rinks? That'd make it a holy roller derby.
(sorry. couldn't resist)
10 points. Good one.
Wasn’t sure how many would get the reference. :)
YES! Anyone who still attends those churches are guilty of abetting child sexual abuse.
But the media will NEVER say or imply that.
All maggat voters should be disenfranchised. Their leaders proscribed.
Fundamentalists should be screened for being pedos.
I’m up very early this morning, and this is what greets me. God-I-don’t-believe-in help me, but I have a lot to say.
First and foremost, before anything else, one thing that we absolutely know about the sexual abuse of children, like most other sex offenses, is that it is vastly under-reported. 200 pastors over 50 years? I don’t buy that for a moment. I would want to know what gets designated as a pastor, as opposed to professional Christian, as opposed to professional teacher in a christian school, as opposed to the music minister who isn’t a pastor, as opposed to the pastor’s brother who helps out in the church with the kids.
And you can tell also that if their attitude was 30 years ago, “let’s not talk about it and it’ll go away “, or “make sure the pastor apologizes to the ceiling for his faithlessness, adulterous thoughts, fornication thoughts, perverted thoughts, and besides, victim she or victim he was 16 or 17 years old so it almost doesn’t even count”, there’s a lot more going on here.
I have been informally studying this subject for nearly 50 years, and I’m absolutely certain that there’s a lot more going on here. Although the terminology is old, nearly 50 years ago there was a distinction made between people who were “fixed pedophiles” – people who were definitely oriented towards children, and “regressed pedophiles”— people whose orientation may have been primarily towards adults, but situationally found themselves abusing kids. But the thing is, the age of those kids. I have a suspicion that a lot of regressed pedophiles were picking on adolescents and teenagers because they aren’t small children. Pubic hair and developed genitalia.
That doesn’t make it better, it just doesn’t make them as disgusting.
For the last few years, when I ever come up with yet another child molesting pastor, music minister, youth minister, pastor adjacent person, or professional/political Christian, I have written to the authors of that article urging them to do exactly what NBC has done. But as a gay man, I have a little extra twist on the subject.
This is the story, far more than the sexual abuse of kids by men of God. For decades, for all of my adult life, I have been listening to the religious right accused gay people, especially gay men of being sexual predators, dangerous to children, child molesters. I’ve been listening to this garbage for nearly 60 years, because I’m that fucking old. If you Google the subject, you will find every year that there are a few gay men and occasional lesbians who have been arrested, or convicted, or sentenced for crimes against children. But if you Google pastors plus sexual abuse, or Catholic priests plus sexual abuse, you will get literally hundreds of thousands of hits.
Every single goddamn year.
The Boy Scouts were no different. I worked for them 50 years ago, but I only lasted a few months because of the unrelenting homophobia everywhere. I didn’t want to get caught up in any scandal simply because I was a gay man. I had no interest in kids, even teenagers that I was only a few years older than. For decades, the scouts had a problem with sexual abuse, which for decades they tried to blame on gay men, and for decades they covered it up and shifted scoutmasters around and did everything that the Catholic Church did. But the thing was, openly gay men and boys were not allowed in the scouts. So who was doing the molesting? Men who were considered by the scouts, their communities, their families, their wives, and above all, themselves TO BE HETEROSEXUAL. Most likely regressed pedophiles, every single one of them.
Not gay. Just opportunists. Do you know why youth pastors molest kids? Because the youth ministry is where the kids are.
This is the story. The very people who are the guardians of morality, youth, innocence, and purity were the ones doing the molesting. They were the ones doing the coverups. They were the ones accusing gay people are doing what we gay people are not doing. They are the ones shouting from their steeple tops that gay people are a danger, drag queens are a danger, transgender people are a danger. They were molesting, lying, slandering, reviling, abusing, covering up, lying lying lying lying lying. Again and again and again.
Can you say projection? I certainly can.
And they are still doing it. And they’re still getting away with it. And almost as bad as what they are doing, is the fact that what they are doing is allowing the problem of the sexual abuse of children to continue by constantly pointing fingers at other people.
As usual, every accusation is an admission of guilt.
Absolutely.
.....“let’s not talk about it and it’ll go away".... Unless you're old you won't understand that one didn't question any authority figure 50yrs ago. Teachers, police, doctors, clergy, youth leaders of Scouts etc would always be believed. That's how so many got away with abuse. Children wouldn't generally make a complaint as they'd be immediately accused of lying about a fine upstanding authority figure. My (good) parents would have been shocked to hear their child whom they'd taught to be truthful, telling such awful and embarrassing things about any authority figure if I'd reported any incident of inappropriate behaviour. I'd probably have got a rare slap on the leg for lying. And of course had I ever had to report inappropriate touching by an adult, I'd have died of embarrassment, we didn't use or even know the correct anatomical words for our intimate body parts. The authority figures dealing with accusations would always believe adults over children who could 'make up fanciful stories' and had wicked natures. I'm delighted my small g/kids know the correct anatomical names for their genitalia and whom to report any incident of inappropriate behaviour to, and that they'd be believed and matters investigated immediately.
The principal of a Catholic school punched a kid (teen) in the face when he was trying to report abuse by one of the priests. This was in the early 80s. So, yeah.
Anecdote. We visited my grandma for 2 weeks every summer in the 50sand 60s. She lived 200 miles away, where my dad had grown up. We always spent one day in those two weeks with my dad's old college friend whom I called Uncle Will who lived nearby. One year, we went to his house and I went upstairs to the bathroom. Coming out, Will was outside the door, he grabbed me and gave me slobbery kisses. Terrified, I wriggled free and ran downstairs, trying to look normal because, if asked if I was OK, I couldn't have told his wife and family and my parents what he'd just done. I sat close to my mum, grateful that we'd not see him again till the next annual visit. I was 11yo, My dad and grandma both died before that, so I didn't ever see Will again. Fast forward 60yrs, By coincidence, my hubby's job took us to live in Will's region but I had no reason to go to his village until our neighbour's funeral was held there. In the pub for the Wake, I said to some locals I'd visited the house of a Will X years before, you could see it from the pub. Cynical laughter broke out. They said, 'The Deputy Head of the High School? That lech? Girls knew not to ever be alone with him.' I was learning he'd been a sexual predator for decades but no one knew how to stop him, other than advise girls never to be alone with him. He had 2 daughters my age, I now wonder what horrors they lived through in their childhoods. And how many thousands, or millions, suffered similarly in past centuries.
Ass of God. Or Asses of God?
Asshats of God.
Asses of God works just fine.
the second one
𝐵𝑢𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑝𝑢𝑠ℎ𝑏𝑎𝑐𝑘 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑤𝑜𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑓 𝑚𝑖𝑛𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑛𝑒𝑒𝑑𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑏𝑒 𝑏𝑎𝑛𝑛𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑎𝑏𝑢𝑠𝑒𝑑 “16- 𝑎𝑛𝑑 17-𝑦𝑒𝑎𝑟-𝑜𝑙𝑑𝑠 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑖𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑠𝑒” 𝑜𝑟 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑚𝑖𝑡𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑟𝑖𝑚𝑒 𝑏𝑒𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑓𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝐽𝑒𝑠𝑢𝑠.
Because children who are almost adults don't count as children. After all, they are fully capable of pushing babies out the hoohaw. And committing the crime before finding Jesus certainly doesn't count, since finding Jesus always makes a person incapable of such a crime. Nevermind the fact that when they let sex offenders out of prison, they aren't allowed to be teachers if they found Jesus. It's not the same thing at all, it's only a position of trust and authority over children.
Conviction of a sex crime should bar anyone from ministerial credentials. Credible accusations should bar anyone from ministerial credentials. Why can't they understand this simple thing that would protect children? Indoctrination is one hell of a drug.
This is the denomination of Swaggert and Bakker. They have had public sex scandals since the 80s. They should be able to figure this out.
"Ministers need to be BANNED?" How about: "Ministers need to be ARRESTED and INDICTED!" This business of forgiveness being equivalent to a pardon needs to STOP NOW.
Forgiveness is NOT a "get out of jail free" card. Even the Bible mentions about God, through people, punishing those who feign repentance just to seek "forgiveness" only to go back to their sinful ways once the "pardon" has been given.
Problem is that not only is forgiveness treated as a "Get Out of Jail Free" card, it is too often employed in lieu of actual criminal PUNISHMENT. Personally, I'm sick and tired of reading about offending priests / pastors / ministers / whatever, doing the Jimmy Swaggart routine, and then as you say, going right back to what they were doing.
These predators need to do PRISON TIME. Period.
"... they’re experts in covering up leaders who are sexual predators."
Including that Stupid Idiot Trump who is entirely known to be a pedophile, like Epstein was.
The problem with all conservative church institutions is authoritarianism.
Authoritarian systems will ALWAYS lead to abuse. You cannot trust people with the sort of power pastors or priests have. You have to have independent oversight and zero tolerance policies when it comes to abusers.
You cannot trust institutions to police themselves. They will always, always, ALWAYS focus on what is best for the organization.
Any authoritarian institution will be rife with abuse and abusers. It is the perfect hunting ground for them. People within the organization are conditioned for obedience and respect to authority above all else.
Yet another reason separation of church and state is essential. The State being the institution to keep the churches accountable.
Absolutely the case. It sounds like you’ve been reading roll to disbelieve.*
*I know you have.
This is why any and all investigatons into charges of child molestation by clergy and others need to be taken out of the hands of the offending church and placed where they rightly belong: in the hands of the civil authorities. Churches have routinely shown they aren't up to task. Stop placing foxes in front of the henhouses. It never ends well.
The thing is, it's actually what Christianity did for centuries. Funny how in their alternative history, this tradition is passed over.
If there is an upside to stories like this it is that, at long last, the clergy's victims are being listened to. Sexual predators were allowed to hide behind their Bibles and clerical collars for far too long.
Okay, who is surprised here. Anyone? ANYONE?
Honestly, I'm beginning to think that, the harder they thump their bibles, the more skeletons they have in their closets. Worse, they make unfounded assertions that they will control those pastors who act out, then proceed to do NOTHING.
So we have Catholic priests, Seventh-Day leaders, Baptist and other evangelical preachers and now, representatives of the Assembly of God, with leaders of their respective churches ABUSING CHILDREN.
I want to know just WHEN local, state, and federal law enforcement is going to recognize that a priest's collar is not the guarantor of decent behavior and too often quite the opposite.
When they realize that the police badge isn’t the guarantor of decent behavior and too often quite the opposite.
They thump their bibles in order to cover the noises of the not yet skeletons trapped in their closet begging to be saved.
Every “youth pastor” should have a law enforcement officer detailed to keep an eye on him.
I would apply that idea to all religious clergy of all religions!
Rape and murder are “biblical tradition”.
Slavery, too. We even fought a war over it in this country.
Don’t forget torture, genocide, infanticide, the crimes against humanity would result in a prison sentence for a long time!
"They avoided doing thorough background checks or reporting their own to local law enforcement, fearing it would expose them to legal liability and go against the biblical idea of forgiveness."
The concept of christian forgiveness is based on the principle on sincere repentance from the culprit/sinner. How is it possible that I know that and not them ? Not counting the christian denominations that worked hand in hand with the justice system to enforce sentences while giving spiritual pardons.
"have taken some steps to decrease the problem (while actively pushing back against more serious steps)"
Typical christian PR, it may as well be called a tradition.
"As if she was the problem rather than the alleged abuser."
Of course she was. She has a vagina ! A vagina !!!
"[The survivor] offered a simple first step: “Stop giving the lawyers a vote.”
I would say giving the lawyers a vote is only part of the problem. They saw how well hiding their heads in their asses worked for other christian sects, and yet, not only they are doing the same exact thing, but they are doubling down.
One can forgive sins without forgetting that the sins occurred, and without forgetting to make sure that punishment follows.
Forgive the sin? Maybe. Punish the crime? ABSOLUTELY!
"How is it possible that I know that and not them ?"
They know. They just have a much lower bar for determining what "sincerely repentance" is. This is the denomination of Jimmy Swaggert, the type specimen for the Public Apology to the Ceiling.
“But there was pushback from people who wondered if ministers needed to be banned if they abused “16- and 17-year-olds without having intercourse” or committed the crime before finding Jesus. The delegates handed the question to lawyers to make sure they couldn’t be sued if they withheld credentials from accused predators, and the leaders of the denomination voted down the idea two years later, partly because they felt it would be unfair to predators who committed “relatively minor” acts of abuse before becoming born again.”
So, when they show you who they are, you give them access to situations and victims to prove it again? What’s relatively minor abuse? Pulling wings off flies leads to setting cats on fire, which leads to beating their girlfriends and wives. There’s no minor abuse when it comes to the victims of abuse. Especially when the abuse is sexual in nature, but all of it is damaging and irreversible.
Our society has a problem with trying to give the benefit of the doubt to perpetrators of heinous sex crimes, even when they clearly don’t deserve it, but then further abuse the victims by blaming them, ignoring their pleas, accusing them of slinging false accusations, and ruining their lives. This is case in point, the example in the article about the victim going to the church and the response was that she had demons. This is typical of how we treat these crimes. Brock Turner’s victim received more hate than he did at first and by the media and judge, she faced victim blaming and accused of coming on to him despite her being drugged and unconscious, he was assumed innocent by those who should know better when he was caught red handed.
Assemblies of God chose to protect predators over victims by refusing to adopt a policy of not giving ministerial certification to people who have a history of abuse. A 16-17 year old deserves to be protected from predatory men as much as a 5 year old does. There’s no excuse to say, “well they’re almost legal and there wasn’t sex.” It is still wrong and the perps won’t change. You are complicit. Stop preying on teen girls, they deserve a chance to grow up safely.
Hey, this harlot asked for it, the poor lil' abuser didn't enjoyed his steaks anymore, all thanks to a female who dared going out without a male chaperone.
Not OT: Another maga/xtian nationalist abuser.
https://ibb.co/twKRhfSK
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/winter-park-man-sentenced-170-years-child-sexual-abuse-material/RR3R4KUPSRDCXDADCOTEGVCIIY/
MAGA is becoming as synonymous with child molestation as the word ‘pastor.’
TWO YEARS OLD??? Chuck him in jail and throw away the key!
Go biblical on him by tying him to a millstone and tossing both into the sea.
It's what Jesus would have wanted.
I would put the scumbag in the general prison population and let the trash eliminate the scumbag!
Sick fuckers like him make me question my disapproval of capital punishment.
Oh, I don't want him dead. I want him to live a long life in terror of what the other prisoners might do to him if he ever took his eyes off them.
I'd like to see him hog-tied and locked in a room with the parents of his victims armed with baseball bats.
Anti Europe GDPR laws.
“It’s clear that the denomination is more concerned about its bottom line than the people who make up their congregations.”
That’s all denominations of all religions, some make it more obvious than others. But it was clearly demonstrated by the recent contretemps resulting from the woman calling around for baby formula. While some were happy to give freely, most were more concerned about her status in their church and how well she contributes rather than the actual need of the baby. Those that did give, could prove me wrong, but dig deeper and they probably won’t. But I am cynical.
🎯
"In interviews with NBC News, they described being molested in a church van. Stalked in a church nursery. Raped with a statue of Jesus plucked from a mantle. Told to repent."
REPENT. Where did I hear that just recently?
You misunderstood the poor thing, he was trying to write "repeat" but never had a proper education.
Was there a troll I missed?
Yep. Wait 5 minutes, and refresh the page to see my edited comment.
https://ibb.co/CLqWmSt
https://ibb.co/tT1dfF6m
Bog standard troll.
Which article is he infesting. Sound like christ boringasHell
Are you asking a question ?
I suppose I might be if my phone had included the ? I typed.
Yesterday’s.
All my trolls seemed so far away
Yeah, I got that clown late yesterday. What a moron.
"𝑅𝑒𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑡, 𝐻𝑎𝑟𝑙𝑒𝑞𝑢𝑖𝑛!" 𝑆𝑎𝑖𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑇𝑖𝑐𝑘𝑡𝑜𝑐𝑘𝑚𝑎𝑛 - Harlan Ellison
https://files.libcom.org/files/Repent,%20Harlequin%20said%20the%20Ticktockman%20-%20Harlan%20Ellison.pdf