Article 6, Clause 3 of the US Consttution. No religious test for public office. Education is a public office. Such a law as this xtian-based loyalty oath would be unenforceable.
And the US Constitution trumps state constitutions. You lose.
And until Trump personally removes that document from its display case and rips it to shreds, it is still in place as th law of the land.
I wonder if Security would even allow him to try. Would they draw their weapons and issue a warning? If Security is comprised of MAGAts, would even THEY think that it was a bridge too far. And would they stop him out of patriotism or fear they'd be held accountable if they didn't once Trump is finally gone, one way or another.
That clause in Article VI also mentions a "public trust." I can see where public school teachers constitute a public trust and thus would be involved in that clause.
"Almost overnight the Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was in full flower, and Captain Black was enraptured to discover himself spearheading it. He had really hit on something. All the enlisted men and officers on combat duty had to sign a loyalty oath to get their map cases from the intelligence tent, a second loyalty oath to receive their flak suits and parachutes from the parachute tent, a third loyalty oath for Lieutenant Balkington, the motor vehicle officer, to be allowed to ride from the squadron to the airfield in one of the trucks. Every time they turned around there was another loyalty oath to be signed. They signed a loyalty oath to get their pay from the finance officer, to obtain their PX supplies, to have their hair cut by the Italian barbers. To Captain Black, every officer who supported his Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was a competitor, and he planned and plotted twenty-four hours a day to keep one step ahead. He would stand second to none in his devotion to country. When other officers had followed his urging and introduced loyalty oaths of their own, he went them one better by making every son of a bitch who came to his intelligence tent sign two loyalty oaths, then three, then four; then he introduced the pledge of allegiance, and after that ‘The Star-Spangled Banner,’ one chorus, two choruses, three choruses, four choruses. Each time Captain Black forged ahead of his competitors, he swung upon them scornfully for their failure to follow his example. Each time they followed his example, he retreated with concern and racked his brain for some new stratagem that would enable him to turn upon them scornfully again.
...When they voiced objection, Captain Black replied that people who were loyal would not mind signing all the loyalty oaths they had to. To anyone who questioned the effectiveness of the loyalty oaths, he replied that people who really did owe allegiance to their country would be proud to pledge it as often as he forced them to. And to anyone who questioned the morality, he replied that ‘The Star-Spangled Banner’ was the greatest piece of music ever composed. The more loyalty oaths a person signed, the more loyal he was; to Captain Black it was as simple as that, and he had Corporal Kolodny sign hundreds with his name each day so that he could always prove he was more loyal than anyone else.
‘The important thing is to keep them pledging,’ he explained to his cohorts. ‘It doesn’t matter whether they mean it or not. That’s why they make little kids pledge allegiance even before they know what “pledge” and “allegiance” mean.’"
- Joseph Heller, Catch 22
Small petty men who can only get attention through bullying others.
It’s been a long time since I’ve been called up for jury duty. But one time I was asked to swear on the Bible blah blah truth blah blah nothing but blah blah. I said, “I grant this book no moral authority whatsoever, and swearing on this book would not be the truth.” The judge simply told me I could affirm that my word would be true.
That was the end of it.
Coercing religious belief does not make it religious nor does it make it belief. It just makes it coercion.
I’m an associate professor of elementary science education. I teach future elementary teachers how to teach science. I’m also a Christian. There’s no way I’d ever say that oath. And I’ll advise all of my future students to NOT teach in Florida.
My wheelhouse, too. I'm a retired electrical engineer, and I have loved science since I was a kid, watching Mr. Wizard. Science and engineering is a good portion of the reason why the quality of our lives is what it is today.
Want me to swear an oath to your imaginary god? Sure - no problem. Do I consider such an oath binding on me in any way? Nope. Imaginary god means imaginary oath.
They want teachers and school staff to swear to uphold the Constitution while the Republican-in-Chief, who has also sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution, violates it every day. Hypocrisy, thy name is Republican.
What is the purpose of teachers swearing an oath? Public schools have been around for centuries and we haven’t decided this was required, or even desirable, before.
Add to the fact that Florida is a shitty state in educational rankings and are facing a teacher shortage exasperated by the current state policies that are direct attacks on teachers, students, learning and knowledge, this is only going to make things worse. Well, it’s another drop in the bucket. The state is actively trying to destroy public education because it’s run by the most corrupt, irresponsible, and incompetent party on the planet, the GOP.
There's that daily Pledge of Allegiance nonsense. The pledge that was created by a Christian Socialist who never included the words "under God" and also employed a Nazi-like salute which wasn’t done away with until December of 1942.
I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Not just once, but twice. No gods involved in that oath and I wasn't struck by lightning where I stood for not invoking the name/word "God."
Professional seems ok. Independent? Not really. They want the teachers to only use approved curricula, and never anything extra. Objective? If "objective" means treat every bible story as historical fact, then yes, they want "objective". Nonpartisan? To these assholes, nonpartisan means NSGOP approved talking points, and partisan is anything that sounds like Democrats.
Respectful learning environment here means students are never to question the teachers, and always bow to authority. Kind of the opposite of what a respectful environment really should be. They hate critical thinking, mainly because they don't know what it really means. Their idea of critical thinking means don't believe anything that doesn't match their ideology and never focus that skepticism on them. They only threw in lifelong learning because it sounds good. If the students actually became lifelong learners, their support would crumble, and they know it. What they really want is lifelong obedience.
And here is the real goal: to be able to fire any teacher who whose conduct and character, no matter how objectively positive, doesn't line up with their twisted morality. Gay teacher? Fired. Teacher seen consuming alcohol? Fired. Administration wants to get rid of a teacher? Dig through their social media profile and find a picture from when they did something young and dumb. Can't be a positive role model by doing something stupid!
The mandatory "so help.me God" at the end is just the icing on this Christian Nationalist shit cake.
Note that the Florida oath requires you to swear to protect the GOVERNMENT in addition to the Constitution. Florida is winning the foot race to racism.
It’s no coincidence that conservatives are trying to further dismantle public education and also higher education where the bulk of us actually learn how to think critically. The education attacks of this regime are absolutely the most dangerous and damaging long term.
They want the “so help me god” to be meaningful by making the “uphold the constitution and be a good role model and support lifelong learning” part to be lies. Whereas, good teachers and real patriots want the reverse. You really cannot square this circle, by insisting on the last line they’re negating the meat of the oath.
A long time ago, I decided that, if I was being sworn in on a jury or other function, and the oath included or ended with the phrase, "so help me god," my response would be, "Leave god out of it and we're good." Yeah, I suspect that might not go over well, but that's where I stand on that business as well as what Florida is proposing here.
I mean, a LOYALTY OATH??? This kind of crap reflects a level of insecurity and paranoia which would be unhealthy for any organization or system, and especially one dedicated to education! That doesn't even mention that well worn codicil of the Constitution. You know, that one about: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." Yeah, THAT one.
And I suspect the fallout from this is pretty predictable. "Hello, Freedom From Religion Foundation, Legal Department? I got another one for you..."
Article 6, Clause 3 of the US Consttution. No religious test for public office. Education is a public office. Such a law as this xtian-based loyalty oath would be unenforceable.
And the US Constitution trumps state constitutions. You lose.
"And the US Constitution trumps state constitutions. You lose"
And according to the Supreme Court, Trump trumps both constitutions. He wins.
And until Trump personally removes that document from its display case and rips it to shreds, it is still in place as th law of the land.
I wonder if Security would even allow him to try. Would they draw their weapons and issue a warning? If Security is comprised of MAGAts, would even THEY think that it was a bridge too far. And would they stop him out of patriotism or fear they'd be held accountable if they didn't once Trump is finally gone, one way or another.
"And until Trump personally removes that document from its display case and rips it to shreds, it is still in place as th law of the land."
I don't think he would do that, but I can see him showing up at the National Archives with his Sharpie in hand to make any changes he wants.
He tried getting an original for the Oval Office. He got a copy.
That clause in Article VI also mentions a "public trust." I can see where public school teachers constitute a public trust and thus would be involved in that clause.
Public school teachers are covered under those 'holding public office'.
Pre-CISE-ly!
^THIS^
"Almost overnight the Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was in full flower, and Captain Black was enraptured to discover himself spearheading it. He had really hit on something. All the enlisted men and officers on combat duty had to sign a loyalty oath to get their map cases from the intelligence tent, a second loyalty oath to receive their flak suits and parachutes from the parachute tent, a third loyalty oath for Lieutenant Balkington, the motor vehicle officer, to be allowed to ride from the squadron to the airfield in one of the trucks. Every time they turned around there was another loyalty oath to be signed. They signed a loyalty oath to get their pay from the finance officer, to obtain their PX supplies, to have their hair cut by the Italian barbers. To Captain Black, every officer who supported his Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was a competitor, and he planned and plotted twenty-four hours a day to keep one step ahead. He would stand second to none in his devotion to country. When other officers had followed his urging and introduced loyalty oaths of their own, he went them one better by making every son of a bitch who came to his intelligence tent sign two loyalty oaths, then three, then four; then he introduced the pledge of allegiance, and after that ‘The Star-Spangled Banner,’ one chorus, two choruses, three choruses, four choruses. Each time Captain Black forged ahead of his competitors, he swung upon them scornfully for their failure to follow his example. Each time they followed his example, he retreated with concern and racked his brain for some new stratagem that would enable him to turn upon them scornfully again.
...When they voiced objection, Captain Black replied that people who were loyal would not mind signing all the loyalty oaths they had to. To anyone who questioned the effectiveness of the loyalty oaths, he replied that people who really did owe allegiance to their country would be proud to pledge it as often as he forced them to. And to anyone who questioned the morality, he replied that ‘The Star-Spangled Banner’ was the greatest piece of music ever composed. The more loyalty oaths a person signed, the more loyal he was; to Captain Black it was as simple as that, and he had Corporal Kolodny sign hundreds with his name each day so that he could always prove he was more loyal than anyone else.
‘The important thing is to keep them pledging,’ he explained to his cohorts. ‘It doesn’t matter whether they mean it or not. That’s why they make little kids pledge allegiance even before they know what “pledge” and “allegiance” mean.’"
- Joseph Heller, Catch 22
Small petty men who can only get attention through bullying others.
One of the best novels ever.
It’s been a long time since I’ve been called up for jury duty. But one time I was asked to swear on the Bible blah blah truth blah blah nothing but blah blah. I said, “I grant this book no moral authority whatsoever, and swearing on this book would not be the truth.” The judge simply told me I could affirm that my word would be true.
That was the end of it.
Coercing religious belief does not make it religious nor does it make it belief. It just makes it coercion.
I’m an associate professor of elementary science education. I teach future elementary teachers how to teach science. I’m also a Christian. There’s no way I’d ever say that oath. And I’ll advise all of my future students to NOT teach in Florida.
I like your attitude! Rock and roll, Ian!
Thanks for the support. I also focus a lot on science and religion. Especially evolution and other science topics. This stuff is in my wheelhouse.
My wheelhouse, too. I'm a retired electrical engineer, and I have loved science since I was a kid, watching Mr. Wizard. Science and engineering is a good portion of the reason why the quality of our lives is what it is today.
Exactly
As they say Down Under: “Good on ya, mate.”
Want me to swear an oath to your imaginary god? Sure - no problem. Do I consider such an oath binding on me in any way? Nope. Imaginary god means imaginary oath.
They want teachers and school staff to swear to uphold the Constitution while the Republican-in-Chief, who has also sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution, violates it every day. Hypocrisy, thy name is Republican.
What is the purpose of teachers swearing an oath? Public schools have been around for centuries and we haven’t decided this was required, or even desirable, before.
Add to the fact that Florida is a shitty state in educational rankings and are facing a teacher shortage exasperated by the current state policies that are direct attacks on teachers, students, learning and knowledge, this is only going to make things worse. Well, it’s another drop in the bucket. The state is actively trying to destroy public education because it’s run by the most corrupt, irresponsible, and incompetent party on the planet, the GOP.
There's that daily Pledge of Allegiance nonsense. The pledge that was created by a Christian Socialist who never included the words "under God" and also employed a Nazi-like salute which wasn’t done away with until December of 1942.
I swear to follow the constitution by reciting this loyalty oath that is unconstitutional.
Nothing to see here.
I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Not just once, but twice. No gods involved in that oath and I wasn't struck by lightning where I stood for not invoking the name/word "God."
I'm now 73 and that smiting has yet to occur.
Do you remember that crick in your neck that you had? That was God warning you. Watch out for the next time. You could stub your toe.
He is, after all, a small and jealous God.
Very much like his followers.
"A small and jealous god," indeed ... and more than a little inept!
Smiting by natural causes. It will happen one day.
YHVH told Adam that if he ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowlwdge he would surely die.
Adam bit down. And true to that god's word, Adam did die...at 930. Looooong after he and Eve left the Garden.
Pics, or it didn't happen. ; )
“I'm now 73 and that smiting has yet to occur.”
He’s been busy.
Deciding who wins The Big Game just takes it out of him.
Florida and Texas sure love wasting taxpayer dollars on lawsuits just so they can performatively perform and stoke religious outrage.
In addition to the violations of Article IV and Amendments 1 and 14, what do these Christian Nazionalists rely want?
[𝑃]𝑟𝑜𝑓𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑎𝑙, 𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑡, 𝑜𝑏𝑗𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑛𝑜𝑛𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑖𝑠𝑎𝑛 𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑛𝑒𝑟
Professional seems ok. Independent? Not really. They want the teachers to only use approved curricula, and never anything extra. Objective? If "objective" means treat every bible story as historical fact, then yes, they want "objective". Nonpartisan? To these assholes, nonpartisan means NSGOP approved talking points, and partisan is anything that sounds like Democrats.
𝐼 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑓𝑜𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑎 𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑓𝑢𝑙 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑛𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑒𝑛𝑣𝑖𝑟𝑜𝑛𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑠𝑡𝑢𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑠 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑐ℎ 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑚𝑜𝑡𝑒𝑠 𝑐𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑔, 𝑐𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑐 𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑏𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑦, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑙𝑖𝑓𝑒𝑙𝑜𝑛𝑔 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑛𝑖𝑛𝑔
Respectful learning environment here means students are never to question the teachers, and always bow to authority. Kind of the opposite of what a respectful environment really should be. They hate critical thinking, mainly because they don't know what it really means. Their idea of critical thinking means don't believe anything that doesn't match their ideology and never focus that skepticism on them. They only threw in lifelong learning because it sounds good. If the students actually became lifelong learners, their support would crumble, and they know it. What they really want is lifelong obedience.
𝐼 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑒 𝑎𝑠 𝑎 𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝑟𝑜𝑙𝑒 𝑚𝑜𝑑𝑒𝑙 𝑖𝑛 𝑏𝑜𝑡ℎ 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑑𝑢𝑐𝑡 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑐ℎ𝑎𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑒𝑟
And here is the real goal: to be able to fire any teacher who whose conduct and character, no matter how objectively positive, doesn't line up with their twisted morality. Gay teacher? Fired. Teacher seen consuming alcohol? Fired. Administration wants to get rid of a teacher? Dig through their social media profile and find a picture from when they did something young and dumb. Can't be a positive role model by doing something stupid!
The mandatory "so help.me God" at the end is just the icing on this Christian Nationalist shit cake.
The WORDS say ONE thing. The way they want to INTERPRET those words says entirely something else.
🎯
"I will support, protect, and defend the Constitution and Government of the United States"
...by swearing an unconstitutional oath. Heckuva job there, Florida Mans.
Seems the FL legislature needs a refresher course on the Constitution and all it entails.
To that legislature: If you can't pass a test on the Constitution, maybe YOU are the ones that shouldn't be holding office.
Note that the Florida oath requires you to swear to protect the GOVERNMENT in addition to the Constitution. Florida is winning the foot race to racism.
Yeah, the god part is bad (and unconstitutional) but the government part is potentially worse.
It’s no coincidence that conservatives are trying to further dismantle public education and also higher education where the bulk of us actually learn how to think critically. The education attacks of this regime are absolutely the most dangerous and damaging long term.
They want the “so help me god” to be meaningful by making the “uphold the constitution and be a good role model and support lifelong learning” part to be lies. Whereas, good teachers and real patriots want the reverse. You really cannot square this circle, by insisting on the last line they’re negating the meat of the oath.
A long time ago, I decided that, if I was being sworn in on a jury or other function, and the oath included or ended with the phrase, "so help me god," my response would be, "Leave god out of it and we're good." Yeah, I suspect that might not go over well, but that's where I stand on that business as well as what Florida is proposing here.
I mean, a LOYALTY OATH??? This kind of crap reflects a level of insecurity and paranoia which would be unhealthy for any organization or system, and especially one dedicated to education! That doesn't even mention that well worn codicil of the Constitution. You know, that one about: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." Yeah, THAT one.
And I suspect the fallout from this is pretty predictable. "Hello, Freedom From Religion Foundation, Legal Department? I got another one for you..."