So, to be clear: an Idaho town, in a state where religiosity is high, and white evangelicalism is actively harming children, hase some very basic rules about commercial districts. That includes state law about alcohol sales. The church was denied the special use permit because they did not want to follow the same rules that everyone else has to follow. A very religious town did the right thing by demanding a church hold to the same standard as non church entities.
The church wants to dominate the entire local society, and is crying "Persecution!" when told to follow the rules. To the privileged, equality is oppression.
Obey all secular laws and authorities like your own bible TELLS believers to do. As your book says, if you claim to love God but hate another (including authorities who are believers), then you are a liar. Can't love a god you can't see but hate those you CAN see,
I can't believe I used to BE one of those horrible people. Now that I see from the outside how horrid they are, I am deeply ashamed that I was once braindead enough to believe in a book that STARTS OUT with talking snakes and worlds being created in less than a week, even though I loved science from grade school on. I had doubts, I had the correct information at my fingertips, and I went to a good college. But I didn't start piecing it together for another several decades.
Thank you for the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and kick my younger self's ass up around my ears. I even had significant examples of hypocrisy from adults I knew, and though it baffled me why they would do the things they did if they were so righteous and holy, I bought into the "devil made 'em do it" line.
I think that a different verse would be more apt, you know the one about giving Caesar what is Caesar's. And planning and zoning rules and decisions are definitely a job for the secular authorities.
Good luck with that. These chaps cherry pick secular laws the same way they cherry pick scriptures to suit their wants and agenda.
Remember the Iraq War that caused the deaths and maiming of hundreds of thousands of men women and children and left a nation in ruins to this day.
They were more than happy to "support the President" despite little evidence to do so while other church leaders throughout the world were condemning such an attack & bombing not just because there was no evidence to do so but more importantly it was immoral. You know, completely unchristian.
Anyway this is part of the ethos and culture now of US capitalism. Exceptionalism and nationalism and customer satisfaction. 🤔
Forgot to mention, these chaps not only supported the US government attack on Iraq, but also for so called in-depth theologians, justified their support for bombing people with theology that was deep as a duck pond and naturally fully flavoured with US nationalism and exceptionalism.
Someone needs to remind them that Jesus is the narrative 🙄
Unfortunately, federal law specifically exempts religious organisations from land use zoning regulations or historic district designations. He is following the law.
The bill under which this is being fought passed both the House and Senate by unanimous consent, and signed into law by Bill Clinton.
Democrats are not your friends when it comes to religion. Republicans are just more brazen.
Long story short: the Trump Department of Justice wants to side with the bigots, misogynists, and Christian Nationalists against the will of the community involved. Super.
Lemme know when the white robes and the peaky hats come out next. I suspect I wont' have long to wait.
Quote: "Long story short: the Trump Department of Justice wants to side with the bigots, misogynists, and Christian Nationalists against the will of the community involved."
You forgot to add 'facts be damned'.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to get the case to the Supreme Court and then get a ruling like the praying sports coach or the gay wedding website, where the decision was based on 'alternative facts'.
This seems to be a pretty straight-forward zoning matter. Is this downtown business district the only possible place they could locate their church? The more extreme the religion, the more likely they are to cry persecution whenever anyone thwarts their expectation of Christian privilege. Judging by the way they treat women I don't think they have a problem with persecution when they're dealing it out.
They LOVE persecuting others. Not being llowed to harm others means they claim being persecuted. Never mind anyone harmed by anti Gay, anti woman, anti anything they choose
Trolling question, is selling brayers and asking for tithes can be considered doing business ?
"a federal law that, among other things, protects houses of worship from zoning discrimination."
I don't quite understand this. Does that means zoning doesn't apply to churches, new and already implanted ? Or that a church can't be evicted in case of rezoning ?
"The bottom line, Richardson said, is that “we have the law on our side.”
As if it protects rights with this maladministration.
That's correct. The law prohibits using zoning laws or historic designations to keep out any religious organisation's use, if they own or lease the land.
This maladministration doesn't want rights for anyone EXCEPT themselves and their friends.
They changed the law and weaponized it to allow christian nationalists to run roughshod over everybody and everything that stands in the way of what they want, even if they irreparably harm a community in getting it. They MUST be accommodated at all costs because GOD!!!!!
This is another example of things that piss me off to no end. Over the winter months, I got into the habit of clawing at the outside of my thighs whenever I read a story like this. Now that shorts weather has finally arrived in Minnesota, I have scratch marks on my legs. I've trimmed my fingernails and gone back to wearing jeans until I can break this habit.
Trump and his minions are bad enough, but these bloviating, self-important, self-righteous, entitled god-people .... I have no words. I remember all the Sundays I spent as a child, listening to terrifying sermons about hellfire, brimstone, and the Rapture, convinced the Rapture was going to happen any second and I would be left behind, doomed to hell. I fucking hate these people with a passion, even more so now they want to overrun entire communities hostile-takeover-style. And the law they created and weaponized might just allow them to do it.
I thought I had left these god-blathering assholes behind when I finally got out of that religious trap. Now they are taking over the country, and it looks like nothing short of the Rapture (if such a thing existed) will stop them.
"They’re based in Moscow, Idaho, where the cult-like group has been spreading like a weed. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth of “leaked Signal chat” fame is a member of one of its affiliates."
Funny how omitting a few words can tell something completely different.
They’re based in Moscow ... Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth of “leaked Signal chat” fame is a member ...
If you're creating "satellite" churches, you can afford to build your own space with adequate parking.
That said, it does sound like a lot of the public opposition came because the group is full of awful people. Their contention is their religion makes them awful people and therefore it's religious discrimination.
They haven't got a clue as to what persecution of Christians is. And they don't want to know.
Christians in other countries face real persecution. Why haven't Christians in the USofA gone to those countries to stand in solidarity with their brethren and be genuinely persecuted? It's simple: they don't WANT to be ACTUALLY persecuted or even mildly inconvenienced. Their faith is just that shallow.
Nature makes humans wonderfully diverse as protection against disease and other calamities. Bigotry is learned from a god who demands cookie cutter sameness from its minions. It is a god that allows NO deviation from its demands or it will burn you in hell forever. It is a god in total opposition to nature.
I don't allow them the 'no true Scotsman' defence. They're Christians. Once we start discriminating who is pretending and who isn't, we open a real can of worms.
I’m surprised the federal government, and especially this administration, is siding for the religious over the business. Yeah religious groups have enabled the administration and laid out the entire platform, but the billionaires and business interests are the ones actually footing the bills.
Of course they recognize the religious is business and not charity, or whatever they claim they are to justify their tax free existence. The religious groups are still not finding the fascism, they’re just directing it.
Also, why would a church choose to plant itself in a place that will never be able to accommodate the congregation or be able to grow? It sounds like there is no way to alleviate the parking situation without completely running people and business out of town. Then what will that get them? No people, no Sunday brunches, no growth. It seems counterintuitive to a church that is interested in bringing people into the fold. It really does seem like a big balls pissing contest rather than an attempt at building community. Just trying to force their way onto an entire community for no other reason than to be the big dog.
It's not that they're siding with religion over business- it's that they're siding with right-wing extremism over ordinary people wanting their community to 𝘯𝘰𝘵 turn into "that town where all the assholes are." They're only pro-business when there's corruption to be done; in all other cases, they'll choose the path that leads to the greatest harm for the greatest number.
Nearly every god is a dictatorial tyrant. It demands perect obedience or you burn forever. Somehow, we are to resist and defy the devils god himself cannot control. We are held to a far higher standard than their god of genocides, mass murders, infanticide, mass abortions and various other atrocities against mankind.
Nobody's trying to close down your wretched bigot-box of a church, Doug. They're just telling you that they don't want you crapping up their town. Take a hint, and take a hike. The mere fact that you've got a religion doesn't entitle you to a centrally-located forum to preach it from, especially not when other people already have a stake in what happens there. I realize that consent is not a word that you or your congregation like to recognize the existence of, but it 𝘪𝘴 something you require before you can shoehorn a new branch of your bullshit factory into an already-extant community.
OT- Is Substack having a seizure or something? Seeing a lot of multi-posts today...
So Pete Kegseth is a member of this church. He’s been married three times and divorced twice. There are multiple allegations of infidelity while married. And there are issues with alcohol. Adultery, fornication, drunkenness.
He sounds just like that other famous Christian. What was his name? Conald?
Authoritarians have a deep-seated need to impose their will on other people. This is, of course consistent with 7 Mountains Dominionism. If tRump gets his dictatorship, count on this being spread from coast to coast.
So, to be clear: an Idaho town, in a state where religiosity is high, and white evangelicalism is actively harming children, hase some very basic rules about commercial districts. That includes state law about alcohol sales. The church was denied the special use permit because they did not want to follow the same rules that everyone else has to follow. A very religious town did the right thing by demanding a church hold to the same standard as non church entities.
The church wants to dominate the entire local society, and is crying "Persecution!" when told to follow the rules. To the privileged, equality is oppression.
This is part of the plan by the theofascist right to impose Gilead.
You mean Gilead? Gideon leaves the Bibles in hotel rooms (spell check has changed Gilead to Gideon on me a couple of times!
Thanks! Usually, I catch it. Not today. I have fixed it.
I had the exact same typo thanks to autocorrect!
9 times out of 10, spellcheck changes right to wrong.
It sure does, my favorite one ever was that my spouse’s best friend’s name is Marijan. (he’s from Croatia) spell-check always changes it to marijuana.
I call that auto-incorrect.
But they’re not even spelled close to each other! Although both of them have an “r”.
Isn't this the American way throughout the world? We are the exception rather than the rule.
Just a micro expectation of the macro.
Hey Dougie...
Obey all secular laws and authorities like your own bible TELLS believers to do. As your book says, if you claim to love God but hate another (including authorities who are believers), then you are a liar. Can't love a god you can't see but hate those you CAN see,
Sorry, but Dougie is too busy cherry-picking bible verses to notice.
As way too many xians are doing all the time.
I can't believe I used to BE one of those horrible people. Now that I see from the outside how horrid they are, I am deeply ashamed that I was once braindead enough to believe in a book that STARTS OUT with talking snakes and worlds being created in less than a week, even though I loved science from grade school on. I had doubts, I had the correct information at my fingertips, and I went to a good college. But I didn't start piecing it together for another several decades.
At least you figured it out. There are a whole lot of people out there who not only haven't figured it out, but would refuse to if asked..
Thank you for the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and kick my younger self's ass up around my ears. I even had significant examples of hypocrisy from adults I knew, and though it baffled me why they would do the things they did if they were so righteous and holy, I bought into the "devil made 'em do it" line.
Yeeeeesh.
Because they would no longer have a scapegoat!
I think that a different verse would be more apt, you know the one about giving Caesar what is Caesar's. And planning and zoning rules and decisions are definitely a job for the secular authorities.
His bible says that the governing authorities are put in place by his god and that's just one reason to obey them.
Oops!
Good luck with that. These chaps cherry pick secular laws the same way they cherry pick scriptures to suit their wants and agenda.
Remember the Iraq War that caused the deaths and maiming of hundreds of thousands of men women and children and left a nation in ruins to this day.
They were more than happy to "support the President" despite little evidence to do so while other church leaders throughout the world were condemning such an attack & bombing not just because there was no evidence to do so but more importantly it was immoral. You know, completely unchristian.
Anyway this is part of the ethos and culture now of US capitalism. Exceptionalism and nationalism and customer satisfaction. 🤔
Forgot to mention, these chaps not only supported the US government attack on Iraq, but also for so called in-depth theologians, justified their support for bombing people with theology that was deep as a duck pond and naturally fully flavoured with US nationalism and exceptionalism.
Someone needs to remind them that Jesus is the narrative 🙄
Which verse is that?
Which one, the first sentence? That's Romans 13:1 (better still, read Romans 13:1-7).
The rest is 1 John 4:20.
Unfortunately, federal law specifically exempts religious organisations from land use zoning regulations or historic district designations. He is following the law.
The bill under which this is being fought passed both the House and Senate by unanimous consent, and signed into law by Bill Clinton.
Democrats are not your friends when it comes to religion. Republicans are just more brazen.
Long story short: the Trump Department of Justice wants to side with the bigots, misogynists, and Christian Nationalists against the will of the community involved. Super.
Lemme know when the white robes and the peaky hats come out next. I suspect I wont' have long to wait.
Quote: "Long story short: the Trump Department of Justice wants to side with the bigots, misogynists, and Christian Nationalists against the will of the community involved."
You forgot to add 'facts be damned'.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to get the case to the Supreme Court and then get a ruling like the praying sports coach or the gay wedding website, where the decision was based on 'alternative facts'.
Oh, but THEY have ALTERNATIVE FACTS! Don't those count?!? 😁
I wonder if the DOJ would have gone to bat for Muslims wanting to open a mosque, or Hindus creating a temple.
Don’t waste too much time wondering 🤔
They'd have gone at them 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 a bat, to chase them out of town.
And then classified them as "undesirables" and "disappeared" them.
Don't be daft, of course not.
This seems to be a pretty straight-forward zoning matter. Is this downtown business district the only possible place they could locate their church? The more extreme the religion, the more likely they are to cry persecution whenever anyone thwarts their expectation of Christian privilege. Judging by the way they treat women I don't think they have a problem with persecution when they're dealing it out.
They LOVE persecuting others. Not being llowed to harm others means they claim being persecuted. Never mind anyone harmed by anti Gay, anti woman, anti anything they choose
"that this was a commercial zoning district"
Trolling question, is selling brayers and asking for tithes can be considered doing business ?
"a federal law that, among other things, protects houses of worship from zoning discrimination."
I don't quite understand this. Does that means zoning doesn't apply to churches, new and already implanted ? Or that a church can't be evicted in case of rezoning ?
"The bottom line, Richardson said, is that “we have the law on our side.”
As if it protects rights with this maladministration.
My thoughts too. That country is not sliding, but running fast to become a 100 % facist and nazi union. It scares the shit out of me.
That's correct. The law prohibits using zoning laws or historic designations to keep out any religious organisation's use, if they own or lease the land.
This maladministration doesn't want rights for anyone EXCEPT themselves and their friends.
They changed the law and weaponized it to allow christian nationalists to run roughshod over everybody and everything that stands in the way of what they want, even if they irreparably harm a community in getting it. They MUST be accommodated at all costs because GOD!!!!!
This is another example of things that piss me off to no end. Over the winter months, I got into the habit of clawing at the outside of my thighs whenever I read a story like this. Now that shorts weather has finally arrived in Minnesota, I have scratch marks on my legs. I've trimmed my fingernails and gone back to wearing jeans until I can break this habit.
Trump and his minions are bad enough, but these bloviating, self-important, self-righteous, entitled god-people .... I have no words. I remember all the Sundays I spent as a child, listening to terrifying sermons about hellfire, brimstone, and the Rapture, convinced the Rapture was going to happen any second and I would be left behind, doomed to hell. I fucking hate these people with a passion, even more so now they want to overrun entire communities hostile-takeover-style. And the law they created and weaponized might just allow them to do it.
I thought I had left these god-blathering assholes behind when I finally got out of that religious trap. Now they are taking over the country, and it looks like nothing short of the Rapture (if such a thing existed) will stop them.
"They’re based in Moscow, Idaho, where the cult-like group has been spreading like a weed. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth of “leaked Signal chat” fame is a member of one of its affiliates."
Funny how omitting a few words can tell something completely different.
They’re based in Moscow ... Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth of “leaked Signal chat” fame is a member ...
Denying Christians special rights to ignore inconvenient laws is anti-Christian to this administration.
If you're creating "satellite" churches, you can afford to build your own space with adequate parking.
That said, it does sound like a lot of the public opposition came because the group is full of awful people. Their contention is their religion makes them awful people and therefore it's religious discrimination.
I'm so tired of this Christian persecution bullshit.
They haven't got a clue as to what persecution of Christians is. And they don't want to know.
Christians in other countries face real persecution. Why haven't Christians in the USofA gone to those countries to stand in solidarity with their brethren and be genuinely persecuted? It's simple: they don't WANT to be ACTUALLY persecuted or even mildly inconvenienced. Their faith is just that shallow.
That's because they are just bigots pretending to be Christians.
Or they're bigots who are Christians. We've seen plenty of bigotry from "The Religion of Love." (TM)
Nature makes humans wonderfully diverse as protection against disease and other calamities. Bigotry is learned from a god who demands cookie cutter sameness from its minions. It is a god that allows NO deviation from its demands or it will burn you in hell forever. It is a god in total opposition to nature.
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/500077156_634983069569395_8222354147582968524_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s600x600_tt6&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=1z9e8FcdZfgQ7kNvwEH_CqT&_nc_oc=AdmAWeix5lqvgHdXff661AwwXqRPekVUScrHSTowKanRfBSnesbsx1wbq6GSP8cL15I&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&_nc_gid=pUXLyoLkO6iKwKZejI4XVw&oh=00_AfK5ytrQtHijNHyBHHXjtpD8fWy8t7m_z6BdaanFf3Bq7g&oe=6837DD40
I don't allow them the 'no true Scotsman' defence. They're Christians. Once we start discriminating who is pretending and who isn't, we open a real can of worms.
Ultimately, whether they know it or not, they are all pretending.😁
Both.
I’m surprised the federal government, and especially this administration, is siding for the religious over the business. Yeah religious groups have enabled the administration and laid out the entire platform, but the billionaires and business interests are the ones actually footing the bills.
Of course they recognize the religious is business and not charity, or whatever they claim they are to justify their tax free existence. The religious groups are still not finding the fascism, they’re just directing it.
Also, why would a church choose to plant itself in a place that will never be able to accommodate the congregation or be able to grow? It sounds like there is no way to alleviate the parking situation without completely running people and business out of town. Then what will that get them? No people, no Sunday brunches, no growth. It seems counterintuitive to a church that is interested in bringing people into the fold. It really does seem like a big balls pissing contest rather than an attempt at building community. Just trying to force their way onto an entire community for no other reason than to be the big dog.
It's not that they're siding with religion over business- it's that they're siding with right-wing extremism over ordinary people wanting their community to 𝘯𝘰𝘵 turn into "that town where all the assholes are." They're only pro-business when there's corruption to be done; in all other cases, they'll choose the path that leads to the greatest harm for the greatest number.
👆🎯
Nearly every god is a dictatorial tyrant. It demands perect obedience or you burn forever. Somehow, we are to resist and defy the devils god himself cannot control. We are held to a far higher standard than their god of genocides, mass murders, infanticide, mass abortions and various other atrocities against mankind.
I'm not surprised at all, really. This IS the Trump misadministration, after all.
Like the mormons featured in a subplot of "The Man Who Fell in Love With the Moon."
A useful PSA for the leaders of P𝗮𝘀𝘀tor Douggie's shitty church: https://xkcd.com/1357/
Nobody's trying to close down your wretched bigot-box of a church, Doug. They're just telling you that they don't want you crapping up their town. Take a hint, and take a hike. The mere fact that you've got a religion doesn't entitle you to a centrally-located forum to preach it from, especially not when other people already have a stake in what happens there. I realize that consent is not a word that you or your congregation like to recognize the existence of, but it 𝘪𝘴 something you require before you can shoehorn a new branch of your bullshit factory into an already-extant community.
OT- Is Substack having a seizure or something? Seeing a lot of multi-posts today...
Yep, it happened to me too and I saw elsewhere that they were down for a bit
Either seizur or a kind of hickups.
Nothing here. Of course the usuaol several minutes to switch "Newest First." Then again I am always late to the party
So Pete Kegseth is a member of this church. He’s been married three times and divorced twice. There are multiple allegations of infidelity while married. And there are issues with alcohol. Adultery, fornication, drunkenness.
He sounds just like that other famous Christian. What was his name? Conald?
Close. Pretty sure it's Donald the Con.
He impregnated his girlfriend while with wife #1. Then did the same with the girlfriend he was cheating with on wife # 2. Who is now wife #3.
God's Own Party, The Party of Family Values. 🤣🤣🤣
Almighty Jesus, Lord and Savior, couldn't even figure out a parking solution. His flock needed to drive to Moscow. You can't make this stupid shit up.
<----Moscow Mitch is smilin'!
"The bottom line, Richardson said, is that “we have the law on our side.”"
Um, have you seen the tRump maladministration? They don't need any stinkin' laws.
Not only don't they need any stinkin' laws; they don't WANT them. Trump & Co. want to rule by fiat.
Isn't that what a king does?
Authoritarians have a deep-seated need to impose their will on other people. This is, of course consistent with 7 Mountains Dominionism. If tRump gets his dictatorship, count on this being spread from coast to coast.