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Joe King's avatar

Bigots gonna bigot, as sure as the earth rotates on its axis. What makes Dawkins et. al. problematic is that the far right white Christian nationalists are going to use this to say that "even the evil atheists agree with us!"

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Joan the Dork's avatar

He's ceased to be a thorn in religious conservatives' paws, and become just another one of their arsenal of useful idiots.

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Heather.B's avatar

When facts don’t dictate your thought, and the lies of a single individual do, you’re in a cult. The Republican party no longer exists, it is simply the MAGA cult.

MAGA is is not a political movement, really, it’s a religious cult, primarily. People are afraid to say that because religion is a touchy subject, but until we start calling it what it is, and going after it as a cult, then we’re not gonna get far.

Issue is Christian Nationalists using our government to force us to follow thier extremist views. They can't be happy living in a country that allows you to worship as you choose, they want to force everyone to follow their beliefs.

That's why I have a shirt that says: "This is our home, not your church" : This one 👇

https://libtees-2.creator-spring.com/listing/noch

We must do everything we can to combat fascism!

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Dot's avatar

why are the stars on a black background?

you might want to Google what that means, just saying....

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Maltnothops's avatar

There appear to be quite a few “meanings”. Was there one that seems most relevant in this instance?

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Penfist's avatar

A "star on a black background" generally symbolizes hope, guidance, or enlightenment in the face of darkness; the stars, representing celestial beacons, are seen as sources of light and inspiration even when surrounded by blackness, often signifying overcoming challenges or finding a path forward in difficult situations.

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Joe King's avatar

"Trump just happened to be the beneficiary of their ignorance."

Ignorance of science. Ignorance of economics. Ignorance of history. The last time fascism ascended into power there was a global economic depression. Desperate people allowed their bigotry to dictate their choices because they didn't think it could get as bad as their non bigoted neighbors warned them. History isn't really repeating itself, but the parallels are strong. It is likely to be horrifying, but not exactly the same. There will be migrants starving in the desert instead of Jews in the ovens, but the effect will be the same. LGBTQ individuals won't be rounded up and executed at scale; instead suicides will skyrocket. The effect will be the same.

Trump voters: the blood is on your hands.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

I don't totally agree with your last sentence. drumpster voters never hidden their assholery. OTOH, those "pro dêmocracy" who couldn't be bothered to vote because pretexts should be reminded of that when they will complain.

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Jane in NC's avatar

The fools who voted 3rd party should be reminded of that choice, as well, when Trump gives Bibi the green light to bull doze Gaza and the West Bank.

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phelpsmediation's avatar

I agree with you here.

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Jane in NC's avatar

Yay?

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Joe King's avatar

To be fair, many of Danger Yam's supporters 𝘸𝘢𝘯𝘵 the blood on their hands.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

I don't like micron. I still voted for him because the alternative was a smart nazillone.

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Alverant's avatar

It doesn't excuse those who voted for Trump. If they had humanity they wouldn't have voted for him in the first place.

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Robot Bender's avatar

I disagree. You'd be surprised at how many Trump supporters seem like nice people in public. Then their mask slips...

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Alverant's avatar

Wearing masks are a violation of their freedom don't you know. (But somehow wearing shoes isn't.)

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cdbunch's avatar

No shirt. No shoes. No service. Never said anything about pants.

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cdbunch's avatar

I'm not so sure about LGBTQ individuals not being rounded up. Remember we're being branded pedophiles. (Again. The classics never die) If we get the 'deportation' camps, I don't think it will be long before LGBTQ2SIA people end up in them.

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Robot Bender's avatar

Pop quiz. What do you call a camp where people are collected for reasons like nationality, religion, race...?

That should be an easy one to answer.

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cdbunch's avatar

The U.S. called them interment camps. The Germans called them concentration camps (others called them death camps). Humanists call them a crime against humanity.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Gulag ? pol pot Cambodia ?

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RegularJoe's avatar

Clue: there was an American television game show based on the children's memory game of the same name.

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Maltnothops's avatar

Coincidentally, I’m in the part of California where the Manzanar camp was. Didn’t realize I was going to drive right past it. Made a sharp left and saw as much as I could. Unfortunately, the visitor center (which is one of the only original structures remaining) was closed yesterday.

https://www.nps.gov/manz/index.htm

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Johnny Rochat - NorCal's avatar

The Nazis put pink triangles on gay men and green triangles on lesbians, then executed them with all the other people who resisted.

I’ve never been as invested in the rainbow symbol as I am in the pink triangle.

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Laura Jeffries's avatar

Wow. What an excellent piece connecting all these guys who really do seem to have gone off the fool end. My only complaint is that the headline isn’t able to suggest how many of them you’re going to knock out in one post! Great writing about important issues.

We probably need to update our assessments of many more people who may have strayed very far from the person they were when they first became trusted and relevant public figures.

I’ve always felt that Sam Harris has been on the intolerant side, so I’m not surprised to see an unsavory opinion there. I have also seen Dawkins leaning that direction in recent years.

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SeekingReason's avatar

I hate to say this but..these very elderly, formerly respected people seem to have mental decline issues. I include Bernie who blasted Dems for leaving middle class..a degree of truth but did NOT apply to Harris/Walz. Bernie, these are no longer people not doing well economically but outed Nazis threatening Americans over and over.

I’d like all of these old white men to go enjoy retirement and get off the stage if these are now their contributions.

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Jane in NC's avatar

Bernie's been wrong about the Dems for more than a decade. The ONLY party that's ever fought for middle class and working class tax relief, child care tax credits, and bringing down healthcare and drug costs are the Democrats. But Bernie is firmly planted on his stump, and he's too old to change now. It's sad because at one time he actually had a point. Unfortunately, he's too often become the left-wing Joe Manchin.

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phelpsmediation's avatar

The democratic leadership DNC is not run democratically. The democratic Party has sold out working people so many times. Did Obama have any of the Wall Street crooks that caused the housing crisis of 2008-2010 and the resultant recession prosecuted? NO. NAFTA killed millions of good paying union jobs and lost us the Blue wall. Why hasn't the Democratic party raised the minimum wage during the times they had congress and president?? Why not more anti-trust action as monopolies keep growing? Why have the Demsocratic leadership allowed three white men to accumulate more wealth that the bottom half, (170,000,000 working people) always tax breaks for the rich. Why didn't the DP end stock manipulations and purchases by congress people with inside infor? So uuch more!!!

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Jane in NC's avatar

Okay, settle down, Bernie Bro. No one's trying to convert you here. We'd appreciate the same consideration in return.

On just one point of your Gish gallop, the Democrats have tried numerous times to pass legislation banning stock trades by members of congress only to have republicans block it in either the house or senate, or both. !!!!!

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phelpsmediation's avatar

I am not a Bernie Bro, so you need to settle down. Pelosi wouldn't let that get voted on when Dems had Congress. Pelosi was powerful since she raised millions from corporate donors. Bernie raised his campaign money from small donors like me. When he ran the DNC did well documented dirty tricks against him.

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Jane in NC's avatar

You post crap like that and expect people to believe you're not a Bernie Bro? Sure, Jan.

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Laura Gentle's avatar

Riiiiight, bc they actually want to give up their stocks, too. Get real.

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Jane in NC's avatar

The republicans? Oh, hell no.

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Laura Gentle's avatar

Both parties, Jane, BOTH.

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Anri's avatar

I know who I voted for.

Perhaps you can tell me who I should have voted for?

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phelpsmediation's avatar

You are wrong about Bernie. He blasted Dems for being corporate democrats and leaving out the bottom half that work paycheck to paycheck. The democratic party has been neoliberal since 1980 when they went Democratic Leadership Council. Then pushed thru NAFTA which killed millions of union jobs in the blue wall states and others allowing industries to leave the country!!Dawkins is good on evolution and not USA politics.

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Sko Hayes's avatar

Bernie was a corporate Democrat until he ran for president. One of the Senate's biggest fundraisers.

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Edward Bryant's avatar

Proof? I see none.

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Sko Hayes's avatar

Bernie Sanders: Prolific Democratic Party fundraiser

https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/sanders-democratic-fundraisers/index.html

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phelpsmediation's avatar

Bernie has been an Independent most of his political life. He was first to push a $15 minimum wage, medicare for all ( to be like all other industrial countries, health care as a right). Either we have some Russian bots or some historically confused conservatives on this list. Bernie's politics fit nicely with Secular Humanists politics. People before corporations.

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Jane in NC's avatar

For years, Bernie has played this game of switching to the Democrats to make sure the Dems didn't run anyone against him for senate in VT, and then post-primary would switch back to calling himself 'independent'. He was as much of a political gamesman as anyone he criticized.

Just because most people are more clear-eyed about Bernie than you're able to be doesn't make them 'Russian bots' or 'historically confused conservatives.' It makes them clear-eyed realists.

We can accept that Bernie had one or two good ideas while still seeing him for what he is.

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phelpsmediation's avatar

The fact that you called me a "Bernie Bro" which is a derogatory term used by corporate Dems to attack Bernie's progressive politics tells me and everyone else just who you are!

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Jane in NC's avatar

Need a tissue, hon?

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phelpsmediation's avatar

Jane, I do not think you are cleared eyed about politics, not just Bernie. I have been actively involved in USA politics for decades always progressive putting people before corporations, opposing wars like Viet Nam and Iraq, defending women's clinics, supporting all unions, never crossing a picket line, fighting racism and sexism in government and neighborhoods. I know progressives from all over and while they do not always agree with Bernie on everything they ALL respect him. Your twisted view of him tells me you are not progressive, some kind of Southern Democrat.

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Jane in NC's avatar

Oh dear. As we say here in the south, bless your heart.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

"Some kind of Southern Democrat here," and damned proud of it. We are as progressive as they come, so your condescension is ill-informed and unwelcome.

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Sko Hayes's avatar

Bernie has always caucused with the Democrats. They promise not to run anyone against him and he gets committee assignment and money in campaigns.

He actually got the idea of a $15 minimum wage from a grassroots group known as "Fight for 15" that started in 2012. He never suggested it until he ran for president.

And you don't need to be a Russian bot to know where the bodies are buried. Bernie's hands aren't as clean as you'd like.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Thank you! He's become an embarrassing "Look at me!" Every one of Harris's programs was about helping working people, and most of Biden's as well. We didn't leave "the working class" they left us to go be Orange Nazi sycophants.

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Jenn's avatar

God, what a shower. I'm grateful for your voice consistently pushing back against this stuff, Hemant. To think 10 years ago I had Dawkins and Coyne promoting my blog posts and now they're supporting the removal of my existing legal rights. What a world.

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Dane B. McFadhen's avatar

Excellent research, Hemant Mehta. I'm sending this to all my Musk-supporting friends.

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Len Koz's avatar

I expect it to have as much effect changing their minds as sending MAGAts stuff about how horrible Sweet Potato Hitler is.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

I can't fault anybody for trying.

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Len Koz's avatar

No, and I shouldn't either. I've been in a pessimistic funk lately, can't really put my finger on why...

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Lynn Veit's avatar

I hear ya.

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Jane in NC's avatar

The white [and let's keep it that way, dammit!!] science/tech broligarchy types are all the same. Every one of them think they're masters of the universe/smartest guys in every room and most likely buy into some form of genetic superiority bullshit. Right-wing world's love affair with Elmo is largely due to Musk's successful marketing campaign that, like Trump's, has hidden his many business failures.

And we can't overlook one thing: Musk disowned his own trans kid. That kind of moral rot plays well with sci-tech bro crowd.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Good for the kid, entitled misogynists don't make good fathers.

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Jane in NC's avatar

Yes, indeed. Apparently, entitled misogynists don't make good fathers to any of their kids. Anyone who's grown up with a narcissistic parent will tell you what a nightmare their childhood was.

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cdbunch's avatar

I'm not convinced you can *be* a father to 11 kids. Just a sperm donor.

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Jane in NC's avatar

We've seen that play out over and over again. Most of the men who congratulate themselves on how many children they have [after having done NONE of the work of bringing them into this world, it should be noted] see their kids as tokens of their 'success' not wonderful, valuable and precious individuals.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Hey, wouldn't you be proud to save money on labor ? s/

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Jane in NC's avatar

I see what you did there. 😜

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

He doesn't even try, sadly. The less of his poor neglected progeny on this earth, the better, neglectful dads are the worst.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

I can't say if the piece of shit I had to cope with for 20 years was narcissistic but is sure knew how to trump on women. One of my happiest days was when I told DM I was leaving and she had the choice between leaving with me or never hear of me again (harsh but necessary to get her out of there).

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Jane in NC's avatar

Sometimes you HAVE to make a hard choice like that. I'm sorry you went through all that, but I hope things have turned around for you since you, very smartly, got the hell out of there.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

DM and me haven't played a punching bag since 2001. What do you think ?

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Jane in NC's avatar

That sounds like a giant win to me. Hear! Hear!

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Joan the Dork's avatar

Correction- 𝘴𝘩𝘦 disowned 𝘩𝘪𝘮. Important difference; he's a wretched piece of shit either way, but Mr. Big Bad Billionaire wasn't the one calling the shots in that severing of ties- and 𝘰𝘩, how that must've chapped his ass!

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cdbunch's avatar

That must have been a tough decision, but I'm positive she's much better off having made it.

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Jane in NC's avatar

That's even better!

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Oh it did, he went absolutely "round the bend" over it.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

What surprise me is dawkins bashing drumpster. Racist and anti trans white cis straight pieces of shit tend to get along, right ?

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Jane in NC's avatar

Give him time.....

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Lynn Veit's avatar

Yep. He might be just testing the waters.

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E2's avatar

Dawkins isn't racist. Or wasn't, once upon a time. When speaking on evolution, he used to take a certain relish in saying that we were all descended from "black Africans."

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Joe King's avatar

One point in his favor. Still thousands of points against.

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Holytape's avatar

What Dawkins said makes sense. You see I am diametrically opposed to the Chicago Bears. And that is why I bought Bears season tickets, always wear Bear jerseys, convince every one I know to beBears fans, make fun of anyone who isn't a Bears fan and spent 150 million dollars to promote the Bears. All because the Bears suck. It makes prefect fucking sense.

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larry parker's avatar

All I know is that the Packers (and Vikings, and Lions) suck. If that makes me a Bears fan, then so be it.

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Donrox's avatar

I cannot believe l am talking about sports, but I support the teams of the cities in which I have lived: Browns, Lions, Chiefs, and 49ers. I think I have heard that the Lions are having a good year. I am not used to that.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

I’ve lived in a city where the team held us hostage for a football stadium, I don’t support that team. (Broncos) The other places I’ve lived had teams that were hit or miss, though I like identifying with a team, I still don’t care enough to watch. Even now that I participate in the office pool, I pick teams by what my brain remembers is a football team. This year, I’ve got the Bills. They’re doing pretty well so far.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I live in a city with a hockey team that plays in a completely revamped arena (save for its iconic roof) that was paid for privately by OVG and not on the public dime.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

That is absolutely how it should be.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

I think the Vikings pulled the same stunt to get their new stadium. My husband loathes the design and complains about it nonstop during the season. To me, it looks like just another sports arena/stadium.

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Holytape's avatar

The Lions having a winning season is sign of the apocalypse. It's the sign between St. Mortimer the Lesser appearing in a brick of cheddarjack cheese and a robin in Michigan singing its song backwards.

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larry parker's avatar

I've never lived in a city (and for 50+ years, a state) that had a top-level pro sports team. So I get to pick and choose.

Slightly related, I just got done watching the highlights of a woman's pro golf Wednesday pro/am round.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

Musk is a slaver, of course he’s not the great white hope. Trump is a Nazi, of course he’s not the great white hope. Dawkins is a misogynist, of course he’s not the great white hope. The great white hope is bigotry writ large so maybe they are, but they are certainly not what the world needs. These are wealthy white males panicking over their loss of unearned authority. They would rather rule a hellscape than share the world with people they deem beneath them. But they’re beneath everyone else. Mediocre white men are shocked that the people they tasked with the actual difficulties of the world are surprised when those people, given the smallest of opportunities, surpass them in every metric. Quelle surprise.

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cdbunch's avatar

I don't know if Anti-Trans bigotry was THE deciding factor, but I'm pretty sure it was A factor. But mostly people who think an economy changes with who's President within a year. (It seems to usually take 3-5), so blamed Biden for the economy going to shit, especially since the lowest financial tiers haven't seen much from the recovery yet. They wanted change and a binary system gave them Trump. Most of them didn't know what they were voting for, apparently, just something different. (Why the hell Texans and Oklahomans can't apply this concept to their state governments flummoxes me)

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Alverant's avatar

Yep, the economy doesn't reset on Jan 20. Trump stole credit for Obama's economy and will do so again for Biden's recovery while blaming Biden for his mismanagement.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

🎯Same as always, the homunculus knows nothing.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

𝘌𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 economic "argument" Chump made was seasoned heavily with lies about [insert immigrant group or foreign country here]. Hell, that whole fuckstick tariff plan just 𝘳𝘦𝘦𝘬𝘴 of it- it's cut from the same bolt of toilet paper as his line about Mexico paying for that useless wall of his. While it may be that a majority of swing voters went his way because of the economy, rather than to fellate MAGA's 𝘥𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘤 hate-boner, the arguments that swung them were xenophobic bullshit.

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cdbunch's avatar

Apparently, “What is a tariff?” was trending on Google on ***Nov 6***

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Joan the Dork's avatar

This country is depressingly fucking stupid.

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Len Koz's avatar

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - G. Carlin

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

I know, right every one in this country should know the lesson of the Smoot-Hawley tariffs, and the economic disaster they led to.

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Holytape's avatar

Dawkins paraphrase, "Elon's shit doesn't hit me, so it is not shit." Empathy is a moral weakness.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

That photo of Trump and Musk looks like a screen grab from a horror movie.*

The orange-tinted lighting on Musk's smirking face and the fact that the back of Trump's head sort of resembles fur-covered buttocks just ups the creep factor into the stratosphere.

*I think I'll call it, "His Master's Voice."

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Stephen Brady's avatar

Dawkins and Hitch were old school British upperclass guys who were quite eloquent, but each had a streak of Homophobia and racism. Hitch up and died, and Dawkins had a stroke. As I have noted before - strokes, dementias, other brain damage (think Bobby Brainworms) make pre-existing personality disorders worse not to mention impulse control. Before his stroke, Richard wrote some amazing stuff. Afterward, not so much. The whole world is on the skids headed straight into a Hell of our own making.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

(???) I didn't help make this Hell. I have actively fought against it for years. I sure many others feel similarly

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Anthony Franklin's avatar

Just say it, most Americans are plain uninformed, blind, and stupid.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

It has gotten a LOT worse since the disintegration of most of the news media into partisan mouthpieces and fractious social media platforms run by the terminally evil. Walter Kronkite, Chet Huntley, et al, must be spinning in their graves like jet propellers. News broadcasts as a source of info isn't as reliable as it used to be, and even back then, The Dumb & The Stupid (TM)* just ignored it. If one wants to be an informed American voter today, it's gonna take some digging.

* now there's a great title for a new soap opera.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Who would fund a realistic TV show on drumpster's older sons ?

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Lynn Veit's avatar

Ohhhhhh, love it!

I just came up with a title, never thought about content. But that would be easy-peasy. Wouldn't have to hire writers, for one thing. The biggest job would be deciding which of the thousands of hours of archived video to use.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

Oh, it'd be dirt cheap. Just point a smartphone camera down a porta-potty. Close enough.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

😂🤣😂

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Dawkins is a Kenyan Brit. :)

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Len Koz's avatar

Dawkins is an effin' twit.

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Alverant's avatar

Even Atheists have blind spots. :(

I hope I never become famous, it's easy to get metaphorically drunk on your own fame.

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