And just for fun, let's arrest a bunch of 'em for hiding predator priests, try them in a court of law, convict them, AND INCARCERATE THEM. In a lot of cases, I'm not convinced that the Church cares much about the money they have lost.
But put a PERSONAL price on their behavior, and I think we might see attitudes inside the RCC change, and possibly change QUICKLY.
The Catholic Church can always be counted on to do the right thing, . . . once they're out of other options. They will otherwise circle the wagons and protect the priests and other predators. The systematic abuse of children has been the Church's dirty little secret for centuries. Combine a requirement of celibacy with a fundamentally irrational view of human sexuality, and nothing good is going to come of it.
As a young teenager at school in Norway, I remember clearly that we all was taught about consent, age limits, birth control, what grown ups could not do to us teenagers, wether boys or girls or inbetweens etc. That was back in 1978.
Not much in their long criminal past do they talk about willingly, only hen it might cost then money will they fight to cover up their long history of crimes.
There are times when attorney / client privilege needs to be breached, and to my mind, this is one of them. Predator priests get away with abuse, whether of children or adults, entirely too often, and it seems to me that $400,000 fine may have addressed the letter of the law, but hardly the spirit. Trahant said it well:
And there it is: Christian Fucking Privilege overriding whistleblower protections. They don't care about any of the very real harm they are doing, as long as the Church's reputation is unsullied.
I don't think this would fall under typical whistleblower laws. Those are to prevent an employer retaliating against an employee for reporting employer misconduct. Trahant wasn't employed by the church, he was employed by the courts to review case files. And the court didn't do any misconduct. Moreover, the misconduct by the church was already known by the courts, the whole point of the review was to try and figure out what to do about it. To do that, they have to trust reviewers to do the review job until the court comes to a final decision.
This is more like violating an NDA or revealing classified documents. For classified material, the guidance is typically: if you see illegal activity reported in a document , report it up the chain, but it doesn't give you the right to declassify the doc. It's the job of prosecutors etc. to decide whether to go after the crime. Analogously, what Trahant probably should've done is gone to the judge in charge of the review and pointed out that based on the information he just read, there are children in present, immediate danger of sexual assault. Then hopefully the judge decides to address that. If not, he can still leak it at that point (and as my other post points out, doing it this way might have avoided him the fine, because there would've been little need to spend $400k on a leak investigation in that case...)
I think the point might be that the behaviour wasn't actually criminal. It was creepy as hell and wrong, but it could be that it did not violate the laws as existed at the time.
Since then, many places have added provisions in their laws to regulate and restrict behaviour by a person in power such as teachers, managers and - clergy.
I think the point might be that the behaviour wasn't actually criminal. It was creepy as hell and wrong, but it could be that it did not violate the laws as existed at the time.
Since then, many places have added provisions in their laws to regulate and restrict behaviour by a person in power such as teachers, managers and - clergy.
If lots of people chip in a fiver or a tenner, then it will be of help to him. Given that he has likely also had his own legal costs and might not have been able to earn much. This sum is a serious amount of money.
This is beyond disturbing. It's why, to be perfectly honest, I no longer have faith in American "justice" or our legal system.
We see stuff like this happening with our President; with members of his administration who have authorized extrajudicial killings (most recently, in Minneapolis and Oregon); redactions in the Epstein files which leave entire pages covered in black; with courts protecting pedophile priests.
In my state, our lieutenant governor, who also moonlights as an Assembly of God minister, is working with our state attorney general to prevent news outlets from writing about, or discussing the son of the assisting minister of that particular church, who videoed his parents having sex and generated AI images of young children having sex. The lieutenant governor distributed a deepfake porn image of another Republican representative's wife -- one who had opposed Congressional redistricting in my state -- throughout the lieutenant governor's office.
The lieutenant governor is still walking free. The kid got a ridiculously low bail and is now free.
This is bleak, I know -- but it's foolish for anyone to believe there is actual "justice" in the United States.
Expecting any form of actual justice with an unjust president and underlings who are little more than sycophants strikes me as a contradiction in terms. There will be a LOT of things that will need to be rebuilt once Trump is gone from the political scene, and our system of justice isn't the least of those line items.
That rebuilding will take decades if not longer, because the MAGAts won't go away and they'll do everything within their power to throw boatloads of monkey wrenches into literally everything. Many of us probably won't live long enough to see any significant progress.
D&D had an alignment system with 2 axes when I played it : Lawful-Neutral-Chaos and Good-Neutral-Evil. Some would choose to play characters who were Lawful Good in alignment, but within that option you could lean more toward lawful or more toward good. Richard Trahant chose good over lawful. And I applaud him for it.
“The Church and the courts are sending a symbolic message to future whistleblowers: Speaking up to protect kids could ruin you financially, but silence will always be rewarded.”
Well, that’s the message they want to send. But, just like being too strict with your children, whistleblowers will find ways to blow the whistle with less evidence, be more sneaky about it, find ways to hide their involvement. It won’t stop the whistleblowers, it only makes them more sneaky. He could have just talked to his brother in law, the principal, in person, only saying what he said in the text, so there wasn’t any electronic documentation. He could have “run into” the reporter while he happened to be in the area for lunch and told him anything he wanted. The reporter is protected from being forced to reveal sources and when there isn’t a traceable communication, there’s no way to prove anything. It could be like the movies, they don’t even need to be together at the table for lunch.
Anyway, this is a travesty of justice. But we are living in a time where legal and moral are opposing thoughts.
And thus the religious world wags on, punishing those who would protect the vulnerable from danger the Church will not even acknowledge, let alone do anything about. As Hemant points out, their vindictiveness in this matter will have consequences beyond this one case. Others will hesitate to speak out when they know something, for fear of reprisal and financial ruin, while the monsters within the Church's ranks grow emboldened. It's all "God's will," or some such rubbish, that the monsters remain protected and invisible while their victims are silenced, denied justice and swept under expensive luxury carpets.
How long before this regime actually *outlaws* any kind of lawsuit or other action against religious institutions and starts arresting/fining the victims themselves for speaking up? After reading this, I don't think it's that beyond the pale.
I was sitting with many idiots in my extended family on Christmas thinking to myself, "We are all scheduled for the later trains to Auschwitz but you assholes will never see it coming."
Because the idiots believe that they are part of the elite group that is protected from any consequence. They are usually surprised when they find out that is not the case!
The Christians voted for this , so I have no sympathy for them, except the children who will suffer due to their parents being complete idiots!
I don’t know how much more of these MAGA skcuf I can take. I’ve already blocked ten times more people in the past couple of days than I ever have in ten years.
I’m exhausted. I don’t know how much more of this gnikcuf nonsense I can handle. I’m this close to snapping.
I hear ya, Matri. I often feel the same way, which is why I sometimes go offline for days at a time. No blogs, no cable news, no newspapers, no anything. A little vodka helps, too.
But I do know the exhaustion. It's real. It's more than physical or mental, it seems to go all the way to the core of your being, and it feels like it will never end, like the whole world is in free fall and when you're sure things can't get any worse, -- BAM!
All I know to do is to take care of ourselves and each other if we can. Do what we need to do survive. Find small moments of joy in the smallest things, even if it's only a kitty rubbing against your leg or seeing something unexpected and beautiful in the night sky. It won't change reality, but it gives one's spirit a small, needed break.
Take care of yourself, first and foremost. If you need a break, take one. Everyone will understand and be here when you get back. We need to survive however we can.
I wasn't 100% thrilled with Joe Biden and some things could have been better but they were good enough and basically going in the right direction. I was on cruise control. Life was not throwing me curve balls. And then Trump got elected. Now I'm nervous and agitated every day. Worried about my future and that of my family. Cruise control is off, white knuckle grip on the steering wheel, foot hovering over the brake and gas trying to decide which is needed at any moment. I want cruise back. My nerves are shot.
Look if God wanted us to do the right thing he would have giving us explicit instructions of what was right and wrong, maybe in a number list, and then put in a book that didn't condone slavery. But he didn't. So anything goes.
After you leak information about a case, immediately tell the judge you did it. The court will not need to conduct a leak investigation will thus the money they need to recover from you for the leak investigation will be $0.
Crucify the RCCs tax-exempt status. Since they care nothing for the safety of children, go after the thing they DO care about.
And just for fun, let's arrest a bunch of 'em for hiding predator priests, try them in a court of law, convict them, AND INCARCERATE THEM. In a lot of cases, I'm not convinced that the Church cares much about the money they have lost.
But put a PERSONAL price on their behavior, and I think we might see attitudes inside the RCC change, and possibly change QUICKLY.
if only
Yeah, that’s because it’s not their money. It’s the congregation funding this nonsense.
👆🎯👏👏
It’s the only way
The Catholic Church can always be counted on to do the right thing, . . . once they're out of other options. They will otherwise circle the wagons and protect the priests and other predators. The systematic abuse of children has been the Church's dirty little secret for centuries. Combine a requirement of celibacy with a fundamentally irrational view of human sexuality, and nothing good is going to come of it.
It sounds like the priest was able to groom the girl because nobody had bothered to teach her a decent sex education class.
That's the norm, and why they won't teach victims that it is wrong.
Can’t teach them sex ed… they will just go have sex.
Yeah, because horny teenagers will never try figuring things out for themselves. ;)
As a young teenager at school in Norway, I remember clearly that we all was taught about consent, age limits, birth control, what grown ups could not do to us teenagers, wether boys or girls or inbetweens etc. That was back in 1978.
Oh, they'll do the right thing ... generally when they have a financial gun held to their heads!
Like I said, when they're out of other options. ;)
The Church's collaboration with Nazis during and after WWII is not something it likes to have discussed, either.
Not much in their long criminal past do they talk about willingly, only hen it might cost then money will they fight to cover up their long history of crimes.
There are times when attorney / client privilege needs to be breached, and to my mind, this is one of them. Predator priests get away with abuse, whether of children or adults, entirely too often, and it seems to me that $400,000 fine may have addressed the letter of the law, but hardly the spirit. Trahant said it well:
𝐼 𝑑𝑜𝑛'𝑡 𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑣𝑒 𝐼 𝑣𝑖𝑜𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 [𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑓𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑦] 𝑜𝑟𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑏𝑦 𝑎𝑙𝑒𝑟𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎 𝑠𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑙 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑎 𝑐𝑙𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑐 𝑤ℎ𝑜 ℎ𝑎𝑑 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑣𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑙𝑦 𝑒𝑛𝑔𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑛 𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑑𝑢𝑐𝑡 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑎 𝑡𝑒𝑒𝑛, 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑎𝑡𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑛𝑒𝑦 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑.
𝐼'𝑚 𝑔𝑜𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑑𝑜 𝑠𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑖𝑡 10 𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑜𝑓 10 𝑡𝑖𝑚𝑒𝑠.
Rock on, Richard.
Aren't there whistleblower protection laws? It seems to me that disclosing criminal actions wouldn't violate any confidentiality agreement.
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐶ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑡𝑠 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑠𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎 𝑠𝑦𝑚𝑏𝑜𝑙𝑖𝑐 𝑚𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑎𝑔𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑓𝑢𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑒 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑙𝑒𝑏𝑙𝑜𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑠: 𝑆𝑝𝑒𝑎𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑢𝑝 𝑡𝑜 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑡𝑒𝑐𝑡 𝑘𝑖𝑑𝑠 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑟𝑢𝑖𝑛 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑓𝑖𝑛𝑎𝑛𝑐𝑖𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦, 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑠𝑖𝑙𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑎𝑙𝑤𝑎𝑦𝑠 𝑏𝑒 𝑟𝑒𝑤𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑒𝑑.
And there it is: Christian Fucking Privilege overriding whistleblower protections. They don't care about any of the very real harm they are doing, as long as the Church's reputation is unsullied.
And we are far past the point of Holy Mother Church's reputation ever being considered 'unsullied.'
I don't think this would fall under typical whistleblower laws. Those are to prevent an employer retaliating against an employee for reporting employer misconduct. Trahant wasn't employed by the church, he was employed by the courts to review case files. And the court didn't do any misconduct. Moreover, the misconduct by the church was already known by the courts, the whole point of the review was to try and figure out what to do about it. To do that, they have to trust reviewers to do the review job until the court comes to a final decision.
This is more like violating an NDA or revealing classified documents. For classified material, the guidance is typically: if you see illegal activity reported in a document , report it up the chain, but it doesn't give you the right to declassify the doc. It's the job of prosecutors etc. to decide whether to go after the crime. Analogously, what Trahant probably should've done is gone to the judge in charge of the review and pointed out that based on the information he just read, there are children in present, immediate danger of sexual assault. Then hopefully the judge decides to address that. If not, he can still leak it at that point (and as my other post points out, doing it this way might have avoided him the fine, because there would've been little need to spend $400k on a leak investigation in that case...)
I think the point might be that the behaviour wasn't actually criminal. It was creepy as hell and wrong, but it could be that it did not violate the laws as existed at the time.
Since then, many places have added provisions in their laws to regulate and restrict behaviour by a person in power such as teachers, managers and - clergy.
I think the point might be that the behaviour wasn't actually criminal. It was creepy as hell and wrong, but it could be that it did not violate the laws as existed at the time.
Since then, many places have added provisions in their laws to regulate and restrict behaviour by a person in power such as teachers, managers and - clergy.
Religion is a cesspool of corruption, intolerance, grift and child rape. The RCC is a child rape syndicate and proves it to the world over and over.
Don't forget misogyny.
It's amazing that Trump hasn't converted to Catholicism. They're his kind of folks.
Then he would have to acknowledge a higher power than him.
TRUMP (to God): "You're sitting on my throne."
🎯🎯🎯
He has yet to realize they actually are the power here, and internationally. Henry the Vlll had the right idea, but for the wrong reasons.
He did post this:
https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/108140367-1746274556191-Gp_j8NjXkAAX72e.jpg?w=1920&h=1080
does Trahant have a Go Fund Me going?
YES! I wondered the same and just looked. The amount donated so far is very humble so it would be great to get the word out!
Thanks. A contribution from me.
I came to the comments to ask the same thing, do you have a link or screenshot of the GoFund me?
I just went to their page and searched for him under his name.
Found it!
$10 from me.
I have found this one
https://www.gofundme.com/f/richard-trahant-advocate-for-safety-of-children
and it's raised a bunch of questions. The most recent donation seems to have been two years ago and there's a lady's name as a beneficiary ......
If anyone has got better information, please share it.
That was my thought as well.
If lots of people chip in a fiver or a tenner, then it will be of help to him. Given that he has likely also had his own legal costs and might not have been able to earn much. This sum is a serious amount of money.
Any way we could set up a GoFundMe to help Richard Trahant?
(Note: it's already there. Here's the URL: https://www.gofundme.com/f/richard-trahant-advocate-for-safety-of-children )
This is beyond disturbing. It's why, to be perfectly honest, I no longer have faith in American "justice" or our legal system.
We see stuff like this happening with our President; with members of his administration who have authorized extrajudicial killings (most recently, in Minneapolis and Oregon); redactions in the Epstein files which leave entire pages covered in black; with courts protecting pedophile priests.
In my state, our lieutenant governor, who also moonlights as an Assembly of God minister, is working with our state attorney general to prevent news outlets from writing about, or discussing the son of the assisting minister of that particular church, who videoed his parents having sex and generated AI images of young children having sex. The lieutenant governor distributed a deepfake porn image of another Republican representative's wife -- one who had opposed Congressional redistricting in my state -- throughout the lieutenant governor's office.
The lieutenant governor is still walking free. The kid got a ridiculously low bail and is now free.
This is bleak, I know -- but it's foolish for anyone to believe there is actual "justice" in the United States.
Expecting any form of actual justice with an unjust president and underlings who are little more than sycophants strikes me as a contradiction in terms. There will be a LOT of things that will need to be rebuilt once Trump is gone from the political scene, and our system of justice isn't the least of those line items.
That rebuilding will take decades if not longer, because the MAGAts won't go away and they'll do everything within their power to throw boatloads of monkey wrenches into literally everything. Many of us probably won't live long enough to see any significant progress.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DTItREBEeIY/?igsh=MWI4azB6NnM5YnJpbw==
DAMN. I knew Musk was an asshat, but this goes WAY beyond the pale.
I don't know about the US, but there appears to be the beginning of an attempt to get the government off X - https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/government-urged-to-quit-x-following-appalling-grok-scandal/ar-AA1TPjf3
I'm bumping this to the top, as its own comment in this thread, because people really NEED to see this.
It doesn’t stop. Sick
https://www.instagram.com/p/DTSgmFMkk1N/?igsh=MWdrOHg4NHpic2lscQ==
The real problem with AI is humanity. Unless and until humans start behaving humanely, AI will spew back all the garbage thrust at it.
Yes
D&D had an alignment system with 2 axes when I played it : Lawful-Neutral-Chaos and Good-Neutral-Evil. Some would choose to play characters who were Lawful Good in alignment, but within that option you could lean more toward lawful or more toward good. Richard Trahant chose good over lawful. And I applaud him for it.
“The Church and the courts are sending a symbolic message to future whistleblowers: Speaking up to protect kids could ruin you financially, but silence will always be rewarded.”
Well, that’s the message they want to send. But, just like being too strict with your children, whistleblowers will find ways to blow the whistle with less evidence, be more sneaky about it, find ways to hide their involvement. It won’t stop the whistleblowers, it only makes them more sneaky. He could have just talked to his brother in law, the principal, in person, only saying what he said in the text, so there wasn’t any electronic documentation. He could have “run into” the reporter while he happened to be in the area for lunch and told him anything he wanted. The reporter is protected from being forced to reveal sources and when there isn’t a traceable communication, there’s no way to prove anything. It could be like the movies, they don’t even need to be together at the table for lunch.
Anyway, this is a travesty of justice. But we are living in a time where legal and moral are opposing thoughts.
And thus the religious world wags on, punishing those who would protect the vulnerable from danger the Church will not even acknowledge, let alone do anything about. As Hemant points out, their vindictiveness in this matter will have consequences beyond this one case. Others will hesitate to speak out when they know something, for fear of reprisal and financial ruin, while the monsters within the Church's ranks grow emboldened. It's all "God's will," or some such rubbish, that the monsters remain protected and invisible while their victims are silenced, denied justice and swept under expensive luxury carpets.
The “rule of law” is a bullshit scam designed to con the unwary into believing the system will deal with them fairly. It won’t.
We can see what the rule of law has meant to the GOP and the orange fathead wannabe emperor.
How long before this regime actually *outlaws* any kind of lawsuit or other action against religious institutions and starts arresting/fining the victims themselves for speaking up? After reading this, I don't think it's that beyond the pale.
Project 2025 it's in there, I'm sure.
I was sitting with many idiots in my extended family on Christmas thinking to myself, "We are all scheduled for the later trains to Auschwitz but you assholes will never see it coming."
Yes, they never do.
Because the idiots believe that they are part of the elite group that is protected from any consequence. They are usually surprised when they find out that is not the case!
The Christians voted for this , so I have no sympathy for them, except the children who will suffer due to their parents being complete idiots!
I don’t know how much more of these MAGA skcuf I can take. I’ve already blocked ten times more people in the past couple of days than I ever have in ten years.
I’m exhausted. I don’t know how much more of this gnikcuf nonsense I can handle. I’m this close to snapping.
kcuF ICE.
kcuF Trump.
kcuF MAGA.
kcuF Republicans.
kcuF the Reichwing.
I hear ya, Matri. I often feel the same way, which is why I sometimes go offline for days at a time. No blogs, no cable news, no newspapers, no anything. A little vodka helps, too.
But I do know the exhaustion. It's real. It's more than physical or mental, it seems to go all the way to the core of your being, and it feels like it will never end, like the whole world is in free fall and when you're sure things can't get any worse, -- BAM!
All I know to do is to take care of ourselves and each other if we can. Do what we need to do survive. Find small moments of joy in the smallest things, even if it's only a kitty rubbing against your leg or seeing something unexpected and beautiful in the night sky. It won't change reality, but it gives one's spirit a small, needed break.
Take care of yourself, first and foremost. If you need a break, take one. Everyone will understand and be here when you get back. We need to survive however we can.
Wishing you strength and renewal.
I wasn't 100% thrilled with Joe Biden and some things could have been better but they were good enough and basically going in the right direction. I was on cruise control. Life was not throwing me curve balls. And then Trump got elected. Now I'm nervous and agitated every day. Worried about my future and that of my family. Cruise control is off, white knuckle grip on the steering wheel, foot hovering over the brake and gas trying to decide which is needed at any moment. I want cruise back. My nerves are shot.
May all the inbred, brain dead jesusfuckers supporters of the Christian fascist movement go and fuck themselves to death!
Look if God wanted us to do the right thing he would have giving us explicit instructions of what was right and wrong, maybe in a number list, and then put in a book that didn't condone slavery. But he didn't. So anything goes.
Whistleblowing against god. That's a stoning.
Sex with other men gets you fired. Raping little kids gets you promoted. Mybe even kidnapped and taken to Rome, like Bernie law.
𝑂𝑛 𝑇𝑢𝑒𝑠𝑑𝑎𝑦, 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑎𝑑𝑑𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 $400,000 𝑓𝑖𝑛𝑒 𝑎𝑔𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡 𝑇𝑟𝑎ℎ𝑎𝑛𝑡, 𝑠𝑎𝑦𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑎𝑚𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑡 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑑 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑘 𝑖𝑛𝑣𝑒𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑔𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛.
So, the ironic lesson here:
After you leak information about a case, immediately tell the judge you did it. The court will not need to conduct a leak investigation will thus the money they need to recover from you for the leak investigation will be $0.
Have she ever considered sending kids to a much safer school like a secular public school that provides a safe atmosphere for kids like her own?
How would that have saved other children from the predator? I'm not sure blame the victim is the best read here.
Because the school fired the predator. He no longer has access to children.
Work on reading comprehension and how reply threads function.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/98dbb0ad9cfc2b9b2d48bc8c320f54a35d045c0d480de90216fdc0f8a9666a2d.jpg