There doesn't seem to be much of anything that doesn't outrage evangelicals. They are professional victims who expect to be deferred to, such is thier privileged position in our culture.
I wonder if it will ever matter that Trump has basically told the world that male MAGA can't get jobs or perform any useful task, except on a "tilted" playing field....
One in which EVERY other demographic "suppresses their rights". If every demo is able to oppress MAGA so thoroughly, AND get the jobs these uneducated white, racist men want, isn't that simply an indication of what incredible LOSERS MAGA men truly are?
But then, they seem to enjoy being made to feel like losers....at least when it comes from the LOSER-in-Chief.
Meanwhile, in reality, the cis white MAGA men have most of the power and are doing all the oppression. What makes them feel oppressed is the fact that they only have most of the power instead of all of it.
They go about the World acting like they are the only arbiters of 'appropriate behavior'. I don't recall the bible discussing the correct circumstances for 2 women to be wrestling... But, as a retired physician who taught for a while, I actually understand human sexual physiology... perhaps the better part of wisdom in this situation is for any trams individuals to declare it 'in front of god and everybody' and let their opponents decide whether to compete against them or not.
No teen should be forced to declare their sexuality in such a public way. There's a big difference between being up front and honest when it's important (that's good, yes we should expect that), and being forced into the public spotlight (bad, and unnecessary).
However it doesn't sound to me like this competitor was actively trying to deceive anyone. It sounds more like their team already knew, a number of other competitors already knew, nobody was hiding or denying it, and the competition's rules allowed it. It was simply the case that Keeler and her mom didn't know.
Which is a nothingburger, IMO. As long as the event organizers are aware that an individual meets the requirements to compete, that competitor has *no* obligation to go around informing every one of their opponents individually that they are trans.
There really is no good solution here... Think about that Moroccan wrestler who was apparently XXY and identified as female. She would have more testosterone than an XX female. The simple truth of the matter is that the world is not black and white, yes or no, male and female... and evilgelicals cannot tolerate shades of grey,
"Should this person be allowed to compete in this event" is an entirely different question from "should a legally allowed competitor be forced to out themselves to each of their opponents." Whatever one may think about the first, the answer to the second is IMO a pretty solid no.
The time and place to acknowledge one is a trans competitor is before the competition, to the organizers of it, to make sure you are following the rules as to what event you can compete in. Once that's done, and the organizers have confirmed that you are entered into the correct event (for your age, weight class, sex, skill level, whatever), it's not really much of anyone else's business.
I'm still not seeing any obligation to out ones' self to every competitor in turn. What matters for sports competitions is: are you obeying the rules. So the organizers might need to know, the same way they may need to know your age or your weight class. But once they adjudicate which event you properly belong in, I don't see why a competitor should be forced to out themselves to others.
I am still traveling, so I don’t have much time this morning. Gotta go get lost in the desert if new mexico so that my husband can collect the insurance money.
I was a wrestling coach for six years, and a pretty good one. I took my 30th place team to 15th in one year, 11th the next, 10th the next. IV would always tell people eho asked about gay sex and wrestling: if you have time to think about sex, you have time to lose.and I would tell others wrestling was sexy only before and after, not during a match.
So, for these people, in their fever dreams of fear, saw sexual assault going on, they were looking for it. And if what they thought they saw was pussy grabbing, let me introduce them to Grabby McPussy, the president ofthe united states.
So, when did they find out that Keeler's opponent was trans? If Hemant had not pointed out that Keeler was in blue, I would not have known which was which. It appears to me that the mother found out after the match, and her sense of entitlement pushed her to file the lawsuit. Of course, she went to the lying liars for Jesus to lie for her about the gender of her child's opponent.
It also sounds like Keeler herself may not have known. In fact, you probably don’t get to the last match of the tournament without having wrestled a few times earlier in the tournament and it seems like no one else had an issue or knew.
And it's pretty obvious that Keeler's parents (because let's be frank here, this is probably coming from her parents) want to jump on that Right Wing Grievance Gravy Train and ride it all the way into the sunset like Riley Gaines did.
Why do they hate us so much? What did we do to these people that they seem to just want us dead? It's genuinely terrifying to be trans rn and I'm so afraid that ostensibly non bigoted cis people are going to abandon us to these freaks.
As Old Man Shadow says, they probably want all nonconformists dead. It's just that in this day and age, trans and gay people are the only groups they can say that about out loud.
Because fascism is OBSESSED with putting everything in tidy little binary boxes and destroying anyone who doesn't fit into that box. Never forget that the famous photo of the Nazi book burnings happened at Dr. Hirschfeld's gender clinic, the first of its kind in the world.
They hate trans people because they upset their simplistic view of sex and gender. They refuse to be educated about the subtitles involved and would rather be outraged than actually LEARN something new.
They also hate trans people because they are MASSIVE consumers of trans porn and they hate THEMSELVES for it so must project their hate onto the objects of their desire. I'm not even kidding.
Apparently we have a Karen out there who knows NOTHING about wrestling, who sees something she wants to interpret as a sexual assault on her daughter and screams bloody about it ... when EVERYONE ELSE sees the SAME THING, shrugs and responds, "That's wrestling. What's the big deal?"
It's a fact: some people are DETERMINED to be victims, either directly or by proximate association. They need to be called on it, bluntly if necessary, because they spoil the event for everyone else.
Blatant illegal discrimination. If you are assaulted by a blond person, you don't get to take out a restraining order on all blonds. And you can't make sports rules in favor of a single competitor.
The judge should throw this out because the remedy being sought is ridiculous and illegal.
If ADF wants to sue to overturn the state's laws about transgender athletes, that would at least be a legal question the judge could consider. But I can't see how any judge would award the specific things this lawsuit asks for.
Christians constantly demand respect, yet fail to return that respect.
In this case, the hate group ADF keep referring to the unnamed opponent as "the male" when they are clearly not male. Perhaps we should refer to ADF as Assholes Defending Fascists.
We have come to expect nothing that connects to reality from the delusional so-called Christian crowd. The Republicans have been hijacked by these religious nut cases, and they try to make mountains out of water-- it's a tough sell for we free-thinking and reasonable people.
-- Ted Koppel, to Sean Hannity, on why he (Hannity) is bad for America
Not just more important than facts, but more important than PEOPLE and their sensibilities. Add that to an utter lack of empathy, and you have the current situation.
Mediocre athlete here. Back in high school, we lost against a basketball team that had really tall people on the team. This caused me undo stress. I was also sexually assaulted by an opponent squarely placing a knee in my groinal area. To add insult to injury, I was called for a blocking foul when it clearly was a charge.
I demand that the foul be rescinded and the game results be reversed.
Ugh!!!! She’s clearly attacking her opponent because she is trans. Which is despicable and harms everyone involved. You can even see in the comments from the anti-trans folks that even their disdain is for more than the transgender people, it’s for women in general. The comment about having a girls wrestling sport where they don’t touch and whoever cries first loses is a big giveaway.
Boys and girls have been wrestling each other since my brothers were in wrestling back in the 80s. And boys were always crying about wrestling the girls because they didn’t want to lose to a girl, and that’s why girls got their own sport.
Anti-trans bigotry has only served to make all women less safe, trans women are attacked and cis women are attacked. I’ve seen it first hand in a public restroom where a woman started shouting about men in women’s bathrooms and the man in question was a cis woman. The restroom was overfull and everyone was standing in line and there was no way something untoward could have happened even if a cis man walked in. But the woman screaming still harassed the other woman because she was blinded by bigotry. Then there’s the cis woman working at Walmart who was assaulted by a man insisting she was trans and then Walmart fired her for the incident.
This a type of accusation only undermines actual accusations of assault. Makes women, cis and trans, seem to be not credible in a world where they’re automatically disbelieved surrounding sexual misconduct. I want to believe her that she was assaulted but when it’s presented as all about the trans status of the opponent, it’s difficult to get to the truth. When she said that the spandex was breeched, it’s hard to see that happening. At no time did the leg of her uniform go that far up to her crotch to get a finger past it, nor does she claim the seam was torn, it sounds like it was just a natural consequence of a wrestling move. Probably something she had experienced before. Most of the time during the match neither athlete even had contact below the waist, and the one time it happened it didn’t even look as though a hand even grazed the crotch, only the thigh.
This is really difficult to parse. I feel like Gaines isn’t getting the societal shift the right was hoping for, she’s a pariah outside their bubble, because just losing once to a transgender woman isn’t something anyone really cares about. So I think this is an attempt to hit a trans woman with sexual assault to get the movement they want, to vilify transgender people. They want everyone to think transgender means sexual predator but we have decades of them not being the problem. Here’s an opportunity to change that. They’ll tell the lie often enough to sway the apathetic to their side. It was only a matter of time.
Vilfying trans people is probably like third on their goal list. #1 is use the publicity to increase donations. #2 is lose the case all the way up to SCOTUS, in the hopes of getting a nationwide "no trans athletes in womens' sports" ruling.
If you're really assaulted, you likely ask for a restraining order against the individual who assaulted you, and you want it to be active all the time, everywhere. Keely and ADF don't ask for that. Instead, they're asking for the entire class of 'trans women' to be restrained...but only from sports competition. The trans individual in question could still walk up and engage with Keely on the street! This makes no sense if Keely truly fears further assault from this person. So it seems to me that not even Keely and her mom are acting as if this was a sexual assault.
The fact that the girl exists angers and outrages these people. They don't want her to exist. They want her to either conform to their expectations or they want her to vanish.
They are the modern descendants of inquisitors. They will hunt out all "deviance" and exterminate it.
There doesn't seem to be much of anything that doesn't outrage evangelicals. They are professional victims who expect to be deferred to, such is thier privileged position in our culture.
If you're used to privilege then equality can feel like persecution
I wonder if it will ever matter that Trump has basically told the world that male MAGA can't get jobs or perform any useful task, except on a "tilted" playing field....
One in which EVERY other demographic "suppresses their rights". If every demo is able to oppress MAGA so thoroughly, AND get the jobs these uneducated white, racist men want, isn't that simply an indication of what incredible LOSERS MAGA men truly are?
But then, they seem to enjoy being made to feel like losers....at least when it comes from the LOSER-in-Chief.
Meanwhile, in reality, the cis white MAGA men have most of the power and are doing all the oppression. What makes them feel oppressed is the fact that they only have most of the power instead of all of it.
"MOMMY! They want to treat me EQUALLY! I want my advantage back! I want my unearned privilege! I want it MY WAY!"
You misspelled evilgeliacal.
They go about the World acting like they are the only arbiters of 'appropriate behavior'. I don't recall the bible discussing the correct circumstances for 2 women to be wrestling... But, as a retired physician who taught for a while, I actually understand human sexual physiology... perhaps the better part of wisdom in this situation is for any trams individuals to declare it 'in front of god and everybody' and let their opponents decide whether to compete against them or not.
No teen should be forced to declare their sexuality in such a public way. There's a big difference between being up front and honest when it's important (that's good, yes we should expect that), and being forced into the public spotlight (bad, and unnecessary).
However it doesn't sound to me like this competitor was actively trying to deceive anyone. It sounds more like their team already knew, a number of other competitors already knew, nobody was hiding or denying it, and the competition's rules allowed it. It was simply the case that Keeler and her mom didn't know.
Which is a nothingburger, IMO. As long as the event organizers are aware that an individual meets the requirements to compete, that competitor has *no* obligation to go around informing every one of their opponents individually that they are trans.
There really is no good solution here... Think about that Moroccan wrestler who was apparently XXY and identified as female. She would have more testosterone than an XX female. The simple truth of the matter is that the world is not black and white, yes or no, male and female... and evilgelicals cannot tolerate shades of grey,
"Should this person be allowed to compete in this event" is an entirely different question from "should a legally allowed competitor be forced to out themselves to each of their opponents." Whatever one may think about the first, the answer to the second is IMO a pretty solid no.
The time and place to acknowledge one is a trans competitor is before the competition, to the organizers of it, to make sure you are following the rules as to what event you can compete in. Once that's done, and the organizers have confirmed that you are entered into the correct event (for your age, weight class, sex, skill level, whatever), it's not really much of anyone else's business.
She was already out - a coach on an opposing team knew. This is the contact point of athletics, medicine, and ethics.
I'm still not seeing any obligation to out ones' self to every competitor in turn. What matters for sports competitions is: are you obeying the rules. So the organizers might need to know, the same way they may need to know your age or your weight class. But once they adjudicate which event you properly belong in, I don't see why a competitor should be forced to out themselves to others.
Let their opponents decide whether forfiet or not. FIFY.
I am still traveling, so I don’t have much time this morning. Gotta go get lost in the desert if new mexico so that my husband can collect the insurance money.
I was a wrestling coach for six years, and a pretty good one. I took my 30th place team to 15th in one year, 11th the next, 10th the next. IV would always tell people eho asked about gay sex and wrestling: if you have time to think about sex, you have time to lose.and I would tell others wrestling was sexy only before and after, not during a match.
So, for these people, in their fever dreams of fear, saw sexual assault going on, they were looking for it. And if what they thought they saw was pussy grabbing, let me introduce them to Grabby McPussy, the president ofthe united states.
He’s famous, you know.
I think you mean "Infamous" ... or "Notorious."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9z0e1Wm64M&pp=ygUJbm90b3Jpb3Vz
Alliance Defending ̶F̶r̶e̶e̶d̶o̶m̶ Fascism.
FIFY
Assholes Demanding Fascism.
Shhh! You said the quiet part out loud!
Do we really have any "quiet part" that we don't want voiced out loud? I tend to think not.
Beat ya to it. Sort of. :)
𝑁𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑠𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑑𝑠 𝑎𝑠 𝑑𝑒𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑎𝑠 𝑎 𝑙𝑎𝑤𝑠𝑢𝑖𝑡 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑠𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑒𝑙𝑠𝑒 𝑡𝑜𝑜𝑘 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑁𝑜𝑡 𝐸𝑣𝑒𝑛 𝑆𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑑 𝑃𝑙𝑎𝑐𝑒 𝑀𝑒𝑑𝑎𝑙 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑜𝑤𝑒𝑑. (𝐴𝑝𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑙𝑦, 𝑛𝑜 𝑜𝑛𝑒’𝑠 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑛 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑠𝑖𝑏𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑎 𝑐𝑖𝑠𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑤𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑡𝑙𝑒𝑟 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑏𝑒𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑛 𝐾𝑒𝑒𝑙𝑒𝑟.)
So, when did they find out that Keeler's opponent was trans? If Hemant had not pointed out that Keeler was in blue, I would not have known which was which. It appears to me that the mother found out after the match, and her sense of entitlement pushed her to file the lawsuit. Of course, she went to the lying liars for Jesus to lie for her about the gender of her child's opponent.
It also sounds like Keeler herself may not have known. In fact, you probably don’t get to the last match of the tournament without having wrestled a few times earlier in the tournament and it seems like no one else had an issue or knew.
And it's pretty obvious that Keeler's parents (because let's be frank here, this is probably coming from her parents) want to jump on that Right Wing Grievance Gravy Train and ride it all the way into the sunset like Riley Gaines did.
Why do they hate us so much? What did we do to these people that they seem to just want us dead? It's genuinely terrifying to be trans rn and I'm so afraid that ostensibly non bigoted cis people are going to abandon us to these freaks.
As Old Man Shadow says, they probably want all nonconformists dead. It's just that in this day and age, trans and gay people are the only groups they can say that about out loud.
They don't deal with differences worth a good damn and aren't interested in adapting to a change in their world view.
Honestly, it stuns me that people WANT to live this way ... but they do.
For now.
I’ll stand by transgender people. The folks against them are all the aggressors and I’m not stupid.
Because fascism is OBSESSED with putting everything in tidy little binary boxes and destroying anyone who doesn't fit into that box. Never forget that the famous photo of the Nazi book burnings happened at Dr. Hirschfeld's gender clinic, the first of its kind in the world.
They hate trans people because they upset their simplistic view of sex and gender. They refuse to be educated about the subtitles involved and would rather be outraged than actually LEARN something new.
It's tragic and hurtful, but there it is.
They also hate trans people because they are MASSIVE consumers of trans porn and they hate THEMSELVES for it so must project their hate onto the objects of their desire. I'm not even kidding.
Apparently we have a Karen out there who knows NOTHING about wrestling, who sees something she wants to interpret as a sexual assault on her daughter and screams bloody about it ... when EVERYONE ELSE sees the SAME THING, shrugs and responds, "That's wrestling. What's the big deal?"
It's a fact: some people are DETERMINED to be victims, either directly or by proximate association. They need to be called on it, bluntly if necessary, because they spoil the event for everyone else.
Is there any way we can sue the ADF into oblivion?
Worth a try...
But then they'll claim that the legal system is biased against white, cisgender people.
They (among many others) give white, cisgender people a bad name.
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑤𝑠𝑢𝑖𝑡 𝑠𝑒𝑒𝑘𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑙𝑢𝑑𝑒 𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑛𝑠𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑎𝑡ℎ𝑙𝑒𝑡𝑒𝑠 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑝𝑒𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑜𝑟 𝑎𝑔𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡 𝐾𝑒𝑒𝑙𝑒𝑟 𝑖𝑛 𝑠𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡𝑠
Blatant illegal discrimination. If you are assaulted by a blond person, you don't get to take out a restraining order on all blonds. And you can't make sports rules in favor of a single competitor.
The judge should throw this out because the remedy being sought is ridiculous and illegal.
If ADF wants to sue to overturn the state's laws about transgender athletes, that would at least be a legal question the judge could consider. But I can't see how any judge would award the specific things this lawsuit asks for.
If she doesn't want to compete against trans people she can just QUIT or take up basket weaving. It's a simple solution.
I truly hope ADF not only loses this lawsuit in a major way, but that they also get slapped with a ginormous fine for wasting the court's time.
The things they are demanding are so ridiculous, I think this case is designed to be lost and appealed up as high as they can go.
Christians constantly demand respect, yet fail to return that respect.
In this case, the hate group ADF keep referring to the unnamed opponent as "the male" when they are clearly not male. Perhaps we should refer to ADF as Assholes Defending Fascists.
They don't want respect, they want subservience.
And unconditional deference ... which I will not give them under ANY circumstances!
Assholes Defending christoFascism.
We have come to expect nothing that connects to reality from the delusional so-called Christian crowd. The Republicans have been hijacked by these religious nut cases, and they try to make mountains out of water-- it's a tough sell for we free-thinking and reasonable people.
This is one of the main reasons MAGA is identified as a cult. their viciousness in service of their ideology knows no bounds.
𝑌𝑜𝑢 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑎𝑡𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑑𝑒𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑚𝑖𝑛𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑜𝑙𝑜𝑔𝑦 𝑖𝑠 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑚𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝑓𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑠.
-- Ted Koppel, to Sean Hannity, on why he (Hannity) is bad for America
Not just more important than facts, but more important than PEOPLE and their sensibilities. Add that to an utter lack of empathy, and you have the current situation.
Mediocre athlete here. Back in high school, we lost against a basketball team that had really tall people on the team. This caused me undo stress. I was also sexually assaulted by an opponent squarely placing a knee in my groinal area. To add insult to injury, I was called for a blocking foul when it clearly was a charge.
I demand that the foul be rescinded and the game results be reversed.
"Unwanted penetration" is basically the entire sport of fencing.
"Lies hurt people."
Christians have been using their religion to hurt people for practically the whole of their religion's existence.
Ironic that that's the only true statement they made.
Ugh!!!! She’s clearly attacking her opponent because she is trans. Which is despicable and harms everyone involved. You can even see in the comments from the anti-trans folks that even their disdain is for more than the transgender people, it’s for women in general. The comment about having a girls wrestling sport where they don’t touch and whoever cries first loses is a big giveaway.
Boys and girls have been wrestling each other since my brothers were in wrestling back in the 80s. And boys were always crying about wrestling the girls because they didn’t want to lose to a girl, and that’s why girls got their own sport.
Anti-trans bigotry has only served to make all women less safe, trans women are attacked and cis women are attacked. I’ve seen it first hand in a public restroom where a woman started shouting about men in women’s bathrooms and the man in question was a cis woman. The restroom was overfull and everyone was standing in line and there was no way something untoward could have happened even if a cis man walked in. But the woman screaming still harassed the other woman because she was blinded by bigotry. Then there’s the cis woman working at Walmart who was assaulted by a man insisting she was trans and then Walmart fired her for the incident.
This a type of accusation only undermines actual accusations of assault. Makes women, cis and trans, seem to be not credible in a world where they’re automatically disbelieved surrounding sexual misconduct. I want to believe her that she was assaulted but when it’s presented as all about the trans status of the opponent, it’s difficult to get to the truth. When she said that the spandex was breeched, it’s hard to see that happening. At no time did the leg of her uniform go that far up to her crotch to get a finger past it, nor does she claim the seam was torn, it sounds like it was just a natural consequence of a wrestling move. Probably something she had experienced before. Most of the time during the match neither athlete even had contact below the waist, and the one time it happened it didn’t even look as though a hand even grazed the crotch, only the thigh.
This is really difficult to parse. I feel like Gaines isn’t getting the societal shift the right was hoping for, she’s a pariah outside their bubble, because just losing once to a transgender woman isn’t something anyone really cares about. So I think this is an attempt to hit a trans woman with sexual assault to get the movement they want, to vilify transgender people. They want everyone to think transgender means sexual predator but we have decades of them not being the problem. Here’s an opportunity to change that. They’ll tell the lie often enough to sway the apathetic to their side. It was only a matter of time.
Vilfying trans people is probably like third on their goal list. #1 is use the publicity to increase donations. #2 is lose the case all the way up to SCOTUS, in the hopes of getting a nationwide "no trans athletes in womens' sports" ruling.
If you're really assaulted, you likely ask for a restraining order against the individual who assaulted you, and you want it to be active all the time, everywhere. Keely and ADF don't ask for that. Instead, they're asking for the entire class of 'trans women' to be restrained...but only from sports competition. The trans individual in question could still walk up and engage with Keely on the street! This makes no sense if Keely truly fears further assault from this person. So it seems to me that not even Keely and her mom are acting as if this was a sexual assault.
The fact that the girl exists angers and outrages these people. They don't want her to exist. They want her to either conform to their expectations or they want her to vanish.
They are the modern descendants of inquisitors. They will hunt out all "deviance" and exterminate it.