"What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church ... a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them."
Unfortunately, you are right. The christian nationalists want to subsume secular society. They don’t believe in any sort of separation of church and state. They don’t believe there should be any diversity of opinion. Their way is the only way and anyone who doesn’t agree with them can just jolly well stay silent. Edit: changed ‘van’ to ‘can’.
As far as I remember my Catholic upbringing, there are sins of commission and sins of omission. Not mentioning the "Christian character" of the school definitely sounds like a sin of omission.
I’m sorry, but strong academics and “traditional values” are contradictory. The traditional values that the Christian churches are touting, not actual values that people have had traditionally. The “traditional values” of the church are reliant upon ignorance and fear. Strong academics demand learning, taking in new information even if it doesn’t line up with what we think we know and allaying fear through understanding. “Traditional values” demands unquestioned obedience and letting god do the understanding.
My Christian education taught me Lost Cause mythology for History and 6-day Creationism and a 6,000 year old Earth mythology for Science.
It also greatly implied that Scientists were stupid liars who were wrong because they started with a presupposition that magic wasn't real.
So even setting aside the very important Church/State separation question, I question strongly whether or not these children will receive an actual education or just fundamentalist indoctrination.
Actually, it wasn't a presupposition, in re: magic. Just the same conditions as for any other hypothesis: demonstrate a given proposal with evidence, allow others to use the same techniques to verify and validate said proposal, then peer review to confirm.
Under those conditions, magic tends to run away, screaming. 😝
They won’t. Many years ago, Hemant posted a page from a christian home schooling book which told kids that ‘nobody actually knew how electricity works’. They want a populace completely unable to think who rely on authoritarian preachers to tell them everything to believe and everything they are allowed to think. Christianity has been a religion for the greater glory of ignorance from its very inception.
Board president Lori Thompson needs a 5th grade civics class. By her logic, neither is "separation of powers" or "checks and balances", yet those principles are definitely there. Time for another email to a school board.
“Just a note of clarification, separation of church and state is not contained in the United States Constitution.”
Thomas Jefferson described the first amendment as a wall between church and site, separating it. I wonder who’s lying, creepy religious lady or Thomas Jefferson, one of the author of the first amendment? How about the constitution doesn’t have the words freedom of religion in it.
Excerpt From
The Founding Myth
Andrew L Seidel, Susan Jacoby & Dan Barker
“…Our Constitution’s only references to religion are exclusionary. It excludes the state from involving itself in religion (the First Amendment’s “free exercise” clause) and excludes religion from involving itself in the state (the First Amendment’s “establishment” clause: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”)”
(Sent to Lori Thompson, the school board president. Subject line: Riverstone Academy constitutionality.)
Ms. Thompson:
As a veteran of the US Navy, and a concerned citizen if the United States, I find it troubling that in the October 9 board meeting you States that the separation of church and state was not contained in the United States Constitution. As president of the school board, one would think that you would have at least a basic understanding of how our government is supposed to function.
The phrase "separation of powers" is not in the Constitution, but Articles I-III set up that principle. We have a judicial branch, a legislative branch, and an executive branch, each exercising a portion of government power separate frome one another. This also sets up a system of checks and balances (another phrase not directly in the text of the Constitution) such that no one branch should be allowed greater authority than any other.
Therefore, the fact that the phrase "separation of church and state" is not directly present in the Constitution does not mean that the principle is not there. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause work together to erect that wall of separation. By preventing infringement of the right to freely exercise one's beliefs, the government becomes separate from disfavored religious practice. By preventing mandatory belief, the government becomes separate from favored religious practice. I hope this explanation helps you to better understand the constitutional principle of separation of church and state.
The separation of church and state, thus established, therefore makes it unconstitutional for the government (that is you) to allow an explicitly religious public school (that is Riverstone Academy). That is establishment of religion, in direct violation of the Establishment Clause.
I have zero doubt that she believes in the separation of powers either. People who are trying to break down the wall of separation are also on the side of the fascists that have taken over our government. These are the Christians that are not worshiping Jesus Christ, they are worshiping Donald Trump.
Eh I don't think you're ever going to win the 'separation of church and state' semantic argument. They are willingly obtuse about it.
What we should be banging on is that this is the state establishing religion. The local kids are literally compelled by the state to go to that school, where they must learn Christian religion. And establishment is directly forbidden by the 1a, in plain language.
As Dave Ramsey preaches, people in debt deserve to be enslaved. So train them young, pay them too little, and brainwash them into accepting indentured servitude to the Broligarchy.
Dave Ramsey bills himself as a financial guru. He gives advice for perfect people. Real people make mistakes and need advice to recover and to forgive themselves.
Usually these RWNJs that push religion like this are the same people that accuse others of (sexually) grooming children. Every accusation by them, a confession.
"A Christian PUBLIC school?!?" That's a contradiction in terms if ever I heard one. Frankly, there is NO WAY IN HELL that the Riverside school should get ANY PUBLIC FUNDING WHATSOEVER, any more than any straight-up private religious school should.
Strikes me that Riverside and its supporters are trying to pull a fast one. They need to be stopped in their tracks.
This kind of education isn’t just “Christian,” it’s cult Christian. We’re not talking about the Jesuits who taught Nelson Mandela or the Anglicans who taught Desmond Tutu. We’re talking about the use of coded language to exert cult mind control. Eg “classical” = White Supremacist, although they would never tell parents that. If you examine the language used in curricula like this you can feel it—like kudzu vines, warped fun-house mirrors, and empty spaces. They strategically twist narratives and exclude pertinent details. As for “violating the Constitution,” does this school force students to pledge allegiance to the Christian flag? Most Christian Nationalists don’t give a crap about a “worldly” Constitution. They think their god is going to come back and crown himself king. And the ones who do pretend to care about the Constitution no doubt support the Convention of the States movement to change it more to their liking.
I suspect it's also the kind of indoctrination that is a direct result of the decrease in church attendance and the rise of the nones. The people who promote schools like Riverside know at one level or another that they are losing traction. They are terrified of that and desperate to hold onto whatever ground they call theirs, and perhaps take back some as well.
Yeah, they ARE desperate ... and that makes them DANGEROUS.
Once again, taxpayer dollars are required by a Christian entity to accomplish what praying to their god through his son utterly failed to do. Thus is it ever.
I can imagine Franklin looking at the makeup of the current kkkurrent kkkhristian kkkourt and saying "This is why we wanted to keep church and state as separate as possible."
"All at no cost."
Given what Christianity has done to its victims AND its followers, I question that assertion.
"No cost?" Har-de-har-har. Tell me another one. 😝
The cost is likely an actual education for these students.
Is it a "Christian Value" to lie to the state about your school's intentions?
It’s an evangelical value to be conniving.
Lying is right up there with ends justifying means.
It’s okay if it’s for Jesus.
GMTA. Posted a split second apart.
Evangelicals lie all the time. They justify it as “saving lives.”
And “souls.” Sun Myung Moon called his lying “Holy deception.”
Holy deception; 𝘸𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘭𝘺 deception- po-tay-to, po-tah-to.
"What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church ... a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them."
Martin Luther
It's SOP for Christians.
Unfortunately, you are right. The christian nationalists want to subsume secular society. They don’t believe in any sort of separation of church and state. They don’t believe there should be any diversity of opinion. Their way is the only way and anyone who doesn’t agree with them can just jolly well stay silent. Edit: changed ‘van’ to ‘can’.
And they literally don't understand why anybody would be upset about this.
Because they are told by their Propagandist Preachers that they and they alone are blessed with Right Opinion.
As far as I remember my Catholic upbringing, there are sins of commission and sins of omission. Not mentioning the "Christian character" of the school definitely sounds like a sin of omission.
And sins of emission. So many emissions...
It's all the Succubi's fault (maybe an Incubus in a few cases)
Yes.
Evidently so.
I’m sorry, but strong academics and “traditional values” are contradictory. The traditional values that the Christian churches are touting, not actual values that people have had traditionally. The “traditional values” of the church are reliant upon ignorance and fear. Strong academics demand learning, taking in new information even if it doesn’t line up with what we think we know and allaying fear through understanding. “Traditional values” demands unquestioned obedience and letting god do the understanding.
This school is screaming incompetence.
↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
THIS!!!
Strong academics comes with a heavy dose of critical thinking, the mortal enemy of religion.
Critical thinking is anathema to them!
My Christian education taught me Lost Cause mythology for History and 6-day Creationism and a 6,000 year old Earth mythology for Science.
It also greatly implied that Scientists were stupid liars who were wrong because they started with a presupposition that magic wasn't real.
So even setting aside the very important Church/State separation question, I question strongly whether or not these children will receive an actual education or just fundamentalist indoctrination.
Actually, it wasn't a presupposition, in re: magic. Just the same conditions as for any other hypothesis: demonstrate a given proposal with evidence, allow others to use the same techniques to verify and validate said proposal, then peer review to confirm.
Under those conditions, magic tends to run away, screaming. 😝
Yes exactly. Naturalism isn't the premise, it's the conclusion.
It may be empirical. It may be provisional. But it's held up just fine so far.
They'll receive the latter. Count on it.
Christians who falsely accuse others of grooming are the biggest groomers of all.
👆🎯It's always projection!
They won’t. Many years ago, Hemant posted a page from a christian home schooling book which told kids that ‘nobody actually knew how electricity works’. They want a populace completely unable to think who rely on authoritarian preachers to tell them everything to believe and everything they are allowed to think. Christianity has been a religion for the greater glory of ignorance from its very inception.
Electricity comes from holes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHDv7NKmLnA
It's hard to get religion involved in anything that doesn't include indoctrination.
No prior mention of the school's Christian basis? Hardly surprising, as Christians repeatedly practice deception to achieve their goals.
𝑅𝑒𝑓𝑒𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑙’𝑠 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛 𝑐ℎ𝑎𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑎𝑏𝑠𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑜𝑟 𝑚𝑢𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑛 𝑅𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑡𝑜𝑛𝑒’𝑠 𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑚𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑎𝑙𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑠.
Because of course they had to lie to push it through. Because it is demonstrably unconstitutional.
“𝐸𝑟𝑜𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑠𝑒𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑜𝑓 𝑐ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑐𝑒𝑟𝑛𝑖𝑛𝑔, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑢𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑏𝑒 𝑎 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑛𝑒𝑟 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 … 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑠𝑖𝑡 𝑤𝑒𝑙𝑙 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑚𝑒,” 𝑏𝑜𝑎𝑟𝑑 𝑚𝑒𝑚𝑏𝑒𝑟 𝑀𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝐻𝑒𝑖𝑙 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑.
𝐵𝑜𝑎𝑟𝑑 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝐿𝑜𝑟𝑖 𝑇ℎ𝑜𝑚𝑝𝑠𝑜𝑛 𝑖𝑚𝑚𝑒𝑑𝑖𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑙𝑦 𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑑, “𝐽𝑢𝑠𝑡 𝑎 𝑛𝑜𝑡𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑐𝑙𝑎𝑟𝑖𝑓𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛, 𝑠𝑒𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑜𝑓 𝑐ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑈𝑛𝑖𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑆𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑠 𝐶𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑡𝑢𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛.”
Board president Lori Thompson needs a 5th grade civics class. By her logic, neither is "separation of powers" or "checks and balances", yet those principles are definitely there. Time for another email to a school board.
The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about guns, either.
info@d49.org
Let's all let them know what the constitution means!
“Just a note of clarification, separation of church and state is not contained in the United States Constitution.”
Thomas Jefferson described the first amendment as a wall between church and site, separating it. I wonder who’s lying, creepy religious lady or Thomas Jefferson, one of the author of the first amendment? How about the constitution doesn’t have the words freedom of religion in it.
Excerpt From
The Founding Myth
Andrew L Seidel, Susan Jacoby & Dan Barker
“…Our Constitution’s only references to religion are exclusionary. It excludes the state from involving itself in religion (the First Amendment’s “free exercise” clause) and excludes religion from involving itself in the state (the First Amendment’s “establishment” clause: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”)”
"No religious test for public office," either.
US Constitution, Article VI, paragraph 3. Just in case anyone's curious.
So we can expect public schools focused on Judaism and Islam in the days to come?
Can’t wait for the Satanist schools - bet they’ll be popular.
Personally, I'm waiting for them to tackle the Hindu pantheon. You could get LOST in that mess! 🤣
(Sent to Lori Thompson, the school board president. Subject line: Riverstone Academy constitutionality.)
Ms. Thompson:
As a veteran of the US Navy, and a concerned citizen if the United States, I find it troubling that in the October 9 board meeting you States that the separation of church and state was not contained in the United States Constitution. As president of the school board, one would think that you would have at least a basic understanding of how our government is supposed to function.
The phrase "separation of powers" is not in the Constitution, but Articles I-III set up that principle. We have a judicial branch, a legislative branch, and an executive branch, each exercising a portion of government power separate frome one another. This also sets up a system of checks and balances (another phrase not directly in the text of the Constitution) such that no one branch should be allowed greater authority than any other.
Therefore, the fact that the phrase "separation of church and state" is not directly present in the Constitution does not mean that the principle is not there. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause work together to erect that wall of separation. By preventing infringement of the right to freely exercise one's beliefs, the government becomes separate from disfavored religious practice. By preventing mandatory belief, the government becomes separate from favored religious practice. I hope this explanation helps you to better understand the constitutional principle of separation of church and state.
The separation of church and state, thus established, therefore makes it unconstitutional for the government (that is you) to allow an explicitly religious public school (that is Riverstone Academy). That is establishment of religion, in direct violation of the Establishment Clause.
Joseph King, concerned American.
I have zero doubt that she believes in the separation of powers either. People who are trying to break down the wall of separation are also on the side of the fascists that have taken over our government. These are the Christians that are not worshiping Jesus Christ, they are worshiping Donald Trump.
Eh I don't think you're ever going to win the 'separation of church and state' semantic argument. They are willingly obtuse about it.
What we should be banging on is that this is the state establishing religion. The local kids are literally compelled by the state to go to that school, where they must learn Christian religion. And establishment is directly forbidden by the 1a, in plain language.
GREAT letter. Thanks for sending it.
"Hands-On Trade-Based Learning"
In a kindergarten to 5th grade school. Got to train those little fingers to put those tiny screws in the I-Phones.
As Dave Ramsey preaches, people in debt deserve to be enslaved. So train them young, pay them too little, and brainwash them into accepting indentured servitude to the Broligarchy.
Dave Ramsey bills himself as a financial guru. He gives advice for perfect people. Real people make mistakes and need advice to recover and to forgive themselves.
Not to mention he's a general asshole.
Any time you hear the words "hands-on" and "Christian" in the same sales pitch... 𝘳𝘶𝘯.
If their cult had merit, they wouldn't need to groom young minds to add adherents. Grooming by xtians usually also means sexual abuse.
At minimum, it means Christian indoctrination and borderline brainwashing (and that borderline is damned thin).
Usually these RWNJs that push religion like this are the same people that accuse others of (sexually) grooming children. Every accusation by them, a confession.
Christian purity culture is basically microdosing sexual abuse...
Yes, that is some sick shit!
Real talk 🦜
"A Christian PUBLIC school?!?" That's a contradiction in terms if ever I heard one. Frankly, there is NO WAY IN HELL that the Riverside school should get ANY PUBLIC FUNDING WHATSOEVER, any more than any straight-up private religious school should.
Strikes me that Riverside and its supporters are trying to pull a fast one. They need to be stopped in their tracks.
https://ibb.co/4wV9MzZB
Ain't it the truth?
This kind of education isn’t just “Christian,” it’s cult Christian. We’re not talking about the Jesuits who taught Nelson Mandela or the Anglicans who taught Desmond Tutu. We’re talking about the use of coded language to exert cult mind control. Eg “classical” = White Supremacist, although they would never tell parents that. If you examine the language used in curricula like this you can feel it—like kudzu vines, warped fun-house mirrors, and empty spaces. They strategically twist narratives and exclude pertinent details. As for “violating the Constitution,” does this school force students to pledge allegiance to the Christian flag? Most Christian Nationalists don’t give a crap about a “worldly” Constitution. They think their god is going to come back and crown himself king. And the ones who do pretend to care about the Constitution no doubt support the Convention of the States movement to change it more to their liking.
I suspect it's also the kind of indoctrination that is a direct result of the decrease in church attendance and the rise of the nones. The people who promote schools like Riverside know at one level or another that they are losing traction. They are terrified of that and desperate to hold onto whatever ground they call theirs, and perhaps take back some as well.
Yeah, they ARE desperate ... and that makes them DANGEROUS.
Once again, taxpayer dollars are required by a Christian entity to accomplish what praying to their god through his son utterly failed to do. Thus is it ever.
Do we really need to trot this one out again? Seems so:
𝑊ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑎 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑖𝑠 𝑔𝑜𝑜𝑑, 𝐼 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑐𝑒𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝑖𝑡 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑠𝑢𝑝𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡 𝑖𝑡𝑠𝑒𝑙𝑓; 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑖𝑡 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑠𝑢𝑝𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡 𝑖𝑡𝑠𝑒𝑙𝑓, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝐺𝑜𝑑 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑐𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑢𝑝𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡 𝑖𝑡, 𝑠𝑜 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑓𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑜𝑟𝑠 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑜𝑏𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒 ℎ𝑒𝑙𝑝 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑙 𝑝𝑜𝑤𝑒𝑟, '𝑡𝑖𝑠 𝑎 𝑠𝑖𝑔𝑛, 𝐼 𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑟𝑒ℎ𝑒𝑛𝑑, 𝑜𝑓 𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎 𝑏𝑎𝑑 𝑜𝑛𝑒.
-- Benjamin Franklin
I can imagine Franklin looking at the makeup of the current kkkurrent kkkhristian kkkourt and saying "This is why we wanted to keep church and state as separate as possible."
Shout it from the rooftops until they get it. (We will have to take shifts, it will take some time)
Someone should file the paperwork to start a Muslim-based public school. And if that doesn't do it. A Satanist-based public school.
Fair's fair, after all.
Pastafarian-based public schooling. Best school lunches in the world!
The Flying Spaghetti Monster would highly approve. LOLOL
May the sauce be with us!!!
I’m making green tomato sauce. Has a kinda-tomato taste and a kinda “I’m not sure what that is” taste.