Can you say Christian Fucking Privilege? I knew you could.
Good for Colorado for doing the right thing without being told to by courts or the legislature. They actually listened to the people who are affected and made the appropriate changes. CDOC is a model for the rest of the country.
A Vietnam buddy I hear from on a regular basis made a real run at drinking himself to death after he got out of the Army. He's been sober now for over thirty-five years. He is very active in AA and credits the organization with saving his life in spite of the fact he's not the least bit religious. He freely admits AA has a high failure rate but as he says, "You get out of it what you put into it." He went on to have a very successful career and is comfortably well-off and enjoying life today.
I’ve been in Al Anon for 18 years and I’m agnostic. I don’t attend meetings that use the Our father prayer. But I’m ok with the serenity prayer. But that’s me.
Many people have been hurt by religion. Including myself.
12 step programs don’t work for everyone. There are other programs that focus on harm reduction rather than abstinence. What Colorado is doing is culturally competent. This is great. 😊
This is tremendous news, and it reflects Colorado's forward-thinking attitude toward addiction and those who are struggling to get shut of theirs. The blunt fact is that Alcoholic Anonymous and other 12-step programs have a piss-poor track record of actual success, and its recidivism rate is not especially enviable. These results-based programs, on the other hand, are FAR more effective at the task of solving the riddle of addiction.
I salute Colorado for this action and hope that other states can see their way clear to follow their lead.
If I see another, "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference” coin, I’m gonna puke.
PS: I got a DUI in Georgia 25 years ago (long story) and the amount of religious BS in the “class” I had to take there was outrageous. Today, I don’t drink at all and it has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus or words from the bible.
Proud to say my state of Washington does not mandate AA or NA for its non-religious inmates if it requires forcing those inmates into a religious/12-step program without a secular alternative.
AA claims to be "spiritual," not religious. Then why does it rely so heavily on prayer and the concept of a god...er, "higher power?" Sounds religious to me.
AA and NA do not compel or require attendance at meetings. I speak as an alcoholic and addict with 37 years sobriety gained by working 12 Step programs one day at a time. Belief in a Higher Power who is God is not mandatory. Many atheists achieve long term quality sobriety without believing in God. Spirituality is not the same as religious observance.
The thing is, belief in a higher power of any kind should not be mandatory. That is why secular alternatives to 12 step programs must be made available and known. Mandate treatment? Yes. Mandate belief? No.
Belief in something that fails to evince itself is absurd, never mind expecting that something to have any kind of effect, positive or negative. You and I both know that.
The blunt fact is that if something is going to change, the people involved will accomplish that change. Indulging in make-believe is a no-op.
AA and NA have very mixed feelings about courts requiring attendance of parolees at meetings as a condition of parole. Alcoholics who are compelled to go to meetings, to save a job or to save a marriage or to get a driver’s license back, invariably relapse as soon as the mandatory goes away, because they haven’t had enough “fun” yet. Meetings are not “classes”, they are just one drunk talking to another drunk, because you can’t preach to another drunk and you can’t talk down to another drunk. For purposes of conducting the meeting in accordance with good order, a chairman is selected through “group conscience”, but the chair has no authority before or after the meeting, and the chair usually just reminds those who choose to speak to keep their remarks within 3-5 minutes and to speak about the topic as it relates to alcoholism. The only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. I have been at many meetings where someone was drunk, because fish fly, birds swim, and alcoholics drink. Those who are disruptive are politely requested to leave the meeting for its duration, although they can talk to fellow sober alcoholics afterwards. Meetings typically open with the Serenity Prayer and conclude with the Lord’s Prayer, but that is by custom only. If someone wants to end with the Hare Krishna, and the group conscience agrees to do so, that is perfectly kosher. AA is the most disorganized organization in existence, because it is run by alcoholics. As far as persons who are court ordered to attend, and who have a slip to be signed, the chairman will usually request that the slips be placed in the basket that is passed around to collect for rent and coffee (AA is self-supporting, because alcoholics have typically displayed a genius at getting others to support their drinking habits), and at the end of the meeting the chair or another breaking alcoholic who doesn’t mind anonymity will sign the sl
Most of you, including The Friendly Athiest, don't know how to Google. And with AI, there's zero excuse for this level of ignorance.
TWENTY THREE STATES have had this for DECADES!! By Federal or State court order! Seven states since 1997! Including Tennessee!!
Yes, Colorado is 29 years behind a state where people have cousin-wives and family trees have no branches.
This is nothing for Coloradoans to toot our horns about. We should hang our heads in shame!
We're the state which created Frankensteinian monsters like Amendment 2, TABOR, Tina Peters, Lauren Boebert and Victor Marx. Colorado isn't progressive. We just want everyone to think we are.
PS: New York mandates this by Federal AND State court orders. The recent legislation wasn't to force the state to implement 29 year old court orders, it was to compel judges to notify parolees to their rights regarding mandatory recovery group attendance. Hochul can't veto a Federal court ruling.
The only fly in the ointment is whether any program be it secular or religious works in practice. About 40-60% of those persons with substance use disorders relapse. I've seen it unfortunately in my own family and friends.
Success rates vary from program to program. AA and other 12 step programs appear to have the lowest rates, but how much of that is due to flaws in the programs and how much is due to their ubiquity and subsequent lack of willingness to use them effectively by people ordered into them is an open question.
Perhaps secular program do better primarily because they encourage people to take responsibility for themselves rather than hand that responsibility over to a god.
💯Great point on responsibility. Plus, our system was never really set up to rehabilitate. If you have a felony they make it impossible to get a job for instance, but you can also become president?
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑏𝑙𝑒𝑚 𝑖𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑔𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑛𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑜𝑓𝑓𝑖𝑐𝑖𝑎𝑙𝑠 𝑑𝑜𝑛’𝑡 𝑎𝑙𝑤𝑎𝑦𝑠 𝑡𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑒 𝑎𝑙𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑠 𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑙𝑦.
Can you say Christian Fucking Privilege? I knew you could.
Good for Colorado for doing the right thing without being told to by courts or the legislature. They actually listened to the people who are affected and made the appropriate changes. CDOC is a model for the rest of the country.
'Christian fiucking privilege'! Do I get a cookie?
🍪
COOKIE!!!!!
https://ibb.co/NkTSkzR
Monster after NoGodz heart.
AND your cookies! 😉
Sometimes the treat is chocolate pudding. Don't worry, you didn't earn that...you get a cookie! 🍪 Heck, have two! 🍪
A Vietnam buddy I hear from on a regular basis made a real run at drinking himself to death after he got out of the Army. He's been sober now for over thirty-five years. He is very active in AA and credits the organization with saving his life in spite of the fact he's not the least bit religious. He freely admits AA has a high failure rate but as he says, "You get out of it what you put into it." He went on to have a very successful career and is comfortably well-off and enjoying life today.
Good for him! If a 12 step program works for an individual then it should he an option, and that is what Colorado has done.
Of course. I was a little off topic there, and Colorado did the right thing.
Where was that higher power to keep them from lamding in prison to begin with? Seems it was a no-show at the wrong time.
Hocus pocus should not be involved a person's release from incarceration.
Exactly. The same gOD they beg for a cure didn't think it was a bad idea to give them the disease in the first place. Make it make sense!
I’ve been in Al Anon for 18 years and I’m agnostic. I don’t attend meetings that use the Our father prayer. But I’m ok with the serenity prayer. But that’s me.
Many people have been hurt by religion. Including myself.
12 step programs don’t work for everyone. There are other programs that focus on harm reduction rather than abstinence. What Colorado is doing is culturally competent. This is great. 😊
This is tremendous news, and it reflects Colorado's forward-thinking attitude toward addiction and those who are struggling to get shut of theirs. The blunt fact is that Alcoholic Anonymous and other 12-step programs have a piss-poor track record of actual success, and its recidivism rate is not especially enviable. These results-based programs, on the other hand, are FAR more effective at the task of solving the riddle of addiction.
I salute Colorado for this action and hope that other states can see their way clear to follow their lead.
If I see another, "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference” coin, I’m gonna puke.
PS: I got a DUI in Georgia 25 years ago (long story) and the amount of religious BS in the “class” I had to take there was outrageous. Today, I don’t drink at all and it has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus or words from the bible.
Amen, sister! Testify!
They should read their bibles because Jesus drank wine.
There were several “Christians” in my class that had 3 or more DUI’s under them. It’s a money extraction scam in the state of GA at least.
Congratulations to Colorado. Now we need to spread this all of the other 49 states.
Proud to say my state of Washington does not mandate AA or NA for its non-religious inmates if it requires forcing those inmates into a religious/12-step program without a secular alternative.
Good for them. Thanks for the info.
Wrong, moron. 23 states are ahead of CO on this.
There's this thing called Google You should try it sometime.
Well, excuse me. Bless your heart…
AA claims to be "spiritual," not religious. Then why does it rely so heavily on prayer and the concept of a god...er, "higher power?" Sounds religious to me.
Christianity is the dominant religon in the US prison system. Nonbelievers barely register as a blip. Why is that?
Christianity is s powerful death cult that uses brainwashing to enslave 3 billion people. God is a psychopath. Read your Bible, it's all in there.
I've read the bible 4 times from cover to cover. The lunacy within its pages did nothing but cement my atheism.
Religionists don't want this because if proves, once again, that their gOD is nothing of value.
Disappointed in Gov. Kathy Hochul for vetoing that…
No one ever finds “God” when they are doing well. These people are vultures.
AA and NA do not compel or require attendance at meetings. I speak as an alcoholic and addict with 37 years sobriety gained by working 12 Step programs one day at a time. Belief in a Higher Power who is God is not mandatory. Many atheists achieve long term quality sobriety without believing in God. Spirituality is not the same as religious observance.
The thing is, belief in a higher power of any kind should not be mandatory. That is why secular alternatives to 12 step programs must be made available and known. Mandate treatment? Yes. Mandate belief? No.
Belief in something that fails to evince itself is absurd, never mind expecting that something to have any kind of effect, positive or negative. You and I both know that.
The blunt fact is that if something is going to change, the people involved will accomplish that change. Indulging in make-believe is a no-op.
You miss the point. AA isn't compelling attendance. The state is...and AA went along with it for decades.
AA and NA have very mixed feelings about courts requiring attendance of parolees at meetings as a condition of parole. Alcoholics who are compelled to go to meetings, to save a job or to save a marriage or to get a driver’s license back, invariably relapse as soon as the mandatory goes away, because they haven’t had enough “fun” yet. Meetings are not “classes”, they are just one drunk talking to another drunk, because you can’t preach to another drunk and you can’t talk down to another drunk. For purposes of conducting the meeting in accordance with good order, a chairman is selected through “group conscience”, but the chair has no authority before or after the meeting, and the chair usually just reminds those who choose to speak to keep their remarks within 3-5 minutes and to speak about the topic as it relates to alcoholism. The only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. I have been at many meetings where someone was drunk, because fish fly, birds swim, and alcoholics drink. Those who are disruptive are politely requested to leave the meeting for its duration, although they can talk to fellow sober alcoholics afterwards. Meetings typically open with the Serenity Prayer and conclude with the Lord’s Prayer, but that is by custom only. If someone wants to end with the Hare Krishna, and the group conscience agrees to do so, that is perfectly kosher. AA is the most disorganized organization in existence, because it is run by alcoholics. As far as persons who are court ordered to attend, and who have a slip to be signed, the chairman will usually request that the slips be placed in the basket that is passed around to collect for rent and coffee (AA is self-supporting, because alcoholics have typically displayed a genius at getting others to support their drinking habits), and at the end of the meeting the chair or another breaking alcoholic who doesn’t mind anonymity will sign the sl
The bovine excrement is waist deep in here.
Most of you, including The Friendly Athiest, don't know how to Google. And with AI, there's zero excuse for this level of ignorance.
TWENTY THREE STATES have had this for DECADES!! By Federal or State court order! Seven states since 1997! Including Tennessee!!
Yes, Colorado is 29 years behind a state where people have cousin-wives and family trees have no branches.
This is nothing for Coloradoans to toot our horns about. We should hang our heads in shame!
We're the state which created Frankensteinian monsters like Amendment 2, TABOR, Tina Peters, Lauren Boebert and Victor Marx. Colorado isn't progressive. We just want everyone to think we are.
Tom Bell
Aurora CO
PS: New York mandates this by Federal AND State court orders. The recent legislation wasn't to force the state to implement 29 year old court orders, it was to compel judges to notify parolees to their rights regarding mandatory recovery group attendance. Hochul can't veto a Federal court ruling.
The only fly in the ointment is whether any program be it secular or religious works in practice. About 40-60% of those persons with substance use disorders relapse. I've seen it unfortunately in my own family and friends.
Success rates vary from program to program. AA and other 12 step programs appear to have the lowest rates, but how much of that is due to flaws in the programs and how much is due to their ubiquity and subsequent lack of willingness to use them effectively by people ordered into them is an open question.
Perhaps secular program do better primarily because they encourage people to take responsibility for themselves rather than hand that responsibility over to a god.
💯Great point on responsibility. Plus, our system was never really set up to rehabilitate. If you have a felony they make it impossible to get a job for instance, but you can also become president?