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Troublesh00ter's avatar

𝑌𝑒 𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑒 𝐺𝑜𝑑 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑚𝑎𝑚𝑚𝑜𝑛.

-- Matthew 6:24

And there can be no doubt which deity this Sapp is serving, especially in that ridiculous top coat, and yes, that was a $200,000 Bentley behind him. That Marvin thought he was going to get away with this stupid prank without consequences is phenomenal, and the blowback that Hemant reports here was well deserved. This was manipulation and intimidation and coercion, blatant and unmasked.

And apparently, this is Christianity, too, to which all I can do is shake my head.

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Sean's avatar

Prosperity Gospel. That's why they put God on money. They're the same thing now.

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Crowscage's avatar

I am reminded of that scene from "They Live" where Roddy Piper looks at money with the special glasses and sees 'This is your god' printed in Capital letters.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Bingo ... and let me say that Roddy Piper was MADE for that role!

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

That was such a prescient moment!

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Len's avatar

Excellent film. With one of the best fight scenes in films - two prof wrestlers on a concrete floor. Wow (and Ow!)

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

Now? NOW?

First troubleshooter, and now you. You’re making me repeat myself.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Should we go for a third ?

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

Should? SHOULD?!?!?!?

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Claudia's avatar

I started shaking my head when I read the story of that shakedown to buy a private jet! And here is that bloke in front of an expensive car, dressed in an expensive coat. Don't these people have got some idea of how that looks? No, clearly not, otherwise they'd be asking for donations for starving children in Africa or to pay missionaries in South America .....

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

Too? TOO? This is Christianity in, dare we say it, a NUTshell?

Besides, you can too serve God and mammon. An amusing little Château Margot, some truffled triple cream orgranic brie, some Bohemian Crystal glasses, and you are ready.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Let's keep it French, Baccarat crystal 😋

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

French? or Frenchy?*

*Maine slang for stuff you can’t buy at walmart.

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

The Mainethat is also known as the Appalachia of New England.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

You must be talking about way up north, because Portland, where I am from wasn't even like that in the 70's.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Ben, this is the kind of Christianity that gets most if not all of the attention ... and I suspect that you know this. The Northfield Community Church where I spent a portion of my teen years was NOTHING like Sapp's church, and my sense is that NCC was by no means alone in how they conducted themselves. Not every church is a grift center for avaricious pastors.

But the churches that take that path ARE the ones who tend to get the column-inches.

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

Of course I know this. There are decent Christians out there in the world. We were even married by a Christian minister.

But as I wrote a few weeks ago for Captain Cassidy, those Christians are remarkably silent. Unfortunately, I just checked, and I can’t find the post.

NALT christians are there. But they don’t speak very loudly at all, certainly not about the worst excesses of the NOT-NALTs. Christian unity and all of that.

But ultimately, As you know I know the issue for me is not merely about the moral excesses of the Right wing of Christianity, But all of these beliefs about magic, myths, and miracles. The right wing simply adds money to the list of M’s.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

You're right, they ARE silent. My suspicion is that they THINK they're being polite in not pointing out the egregious behavior of church leaders like Sapp.

And yeah ... they damned well SHOULD point that out ... LOUDLY.

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

I finally found the bit I wrote about NALTs. Unfortunately, it wasn’t quite the extensive thing I thought. I’m old and I forget. It was simply this::

and where are the NALTS In all of this? They are barely to be heard, been busy as they are being concerned about the imaginary unity of Christianity over the actual witness of Christianity.

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The Average Dissenter's avatar

I love his reasoning about making sure there was no attempt at stealing the money by having the doors shut.

Folks, the thief was right in front of you all along!

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ericc's avatar

Move over "The butler did it", the cliche trope for the 21st century is 'The priest did it.'

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Len Koz's avatar

The priest was doing it long before butlers existed.

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Die Anyway's avatar

> "The priest was doing it..."

🎼 Every priest's doing it, doing it, doing it.

Grabbing a kid and screwing it, screwing it. 🎶

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larry parker's avatar

If there ever was a time to use a fake $20 with a bible verse on it....

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larry parker's avatar

I did a search. I can't find anywhere to buy them.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Not on Amazon?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Amazon ups the ante with a $1,000.000 bible tract

amazon.com/Franklin-Million-Dollar-Gospel-Tract/dp/B084KTKP9R

(There is no million dollar bill in real life, except as gags. And Franklin (a Deist) is on the hundred. Xtians are incompetent).

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

I’m on the ten, at least my last name is.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

wordofgodstore.com/product/788200567669

I saw a number of other sites selling them.

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Joe King's avatar

𝑀𝑦 𝑑𝑖𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙 𝑖𝑡 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑐𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎 𝑠𝑎𝑓𝑒, 𝑓𝑜𝑐𝑢𝑠𝑒𝑑, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑟𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑒𝑛𝑣𝑖𝑟𝑜𝑛𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑒 𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑔𝑖𝑣𝑒, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑒 ℎ𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑐𝑒𝑠.

Mr Sapp:

I don't believe you.

What I believe is that you wanted the donations and just weren't thinking. You felt powerful. You felt that you were 𝘰𝘸𝘦𝘥 that money. You wanted the people to think they were required to give. It doesn't matter what percentage of the take you were going to peel off and put right back into the pot. You wanted them to think they 𝘰𝘸𝘦𝘥 you. That is why you said:

𝑌𝑒𝑎ℎ… 𝑛𝑜𝑤, 𝑎𝑓𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑒 𝑢𝑝 ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒… 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑜𝑝𝑒𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑑𝑜𝑜𝑟𝑠.

No please. No "I would be thankful if you gave." You were speaking to vulnerable people who saw you as the spokesman for the God they believe in, with all the authority that entails. You may not have locked the doors. You may not have prevented anyone from just leaving. You only demanded they stay until they gave, using all the unearned authority to command them that being their God's representative implies. You are a would be mob boss and a grifter. The right thing to do to make up for this egregious imposition on your followers would be to return their donations to them, with interest. Your greed will prevent this.

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

Don’t you think you’re being a little unfair here?

Sapp isn’t the mob boss for these poor saps. God is the mob boss. Sapp it’s just the muscle.

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Joe King's avatar

De facto mob boss. God has a hard time showing up to give orders.

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Michelle Joy Brown's avatar

Ok, honestly y'all, my husband and I experienced the same hostage situation. The minister at the time had the ushers, literally, lock the damn doors!! Not close, but LOCK them. I was pissed! Bynum was the f*%$@@@ idiot that led the situation. We left!!! Never to return! Worst than that happened during that time. 🤨😵‍💫😵😵‍💫

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

LOCKING the doors may be criminally actionable, especially if there are no push-to-open bars on them. Seems to me that local or state fire codes may specify that requirement further than my simple statement here.

Either way, the minister you cite could have found himself on the business end of an arrest!

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

When DM was young, a night club, under the pretense the exit doors were used to let people enter without paying, chained them. You can guess what happened. 146 people aged 17 to 30 wanted to have fun and never came back.

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OwossoHarpist's avatar

Let me guess. It was a Christian cult center falsely posing as a gay night club, amirite?

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

6 white, 11 attempts left.

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Greg Aydt's avatar

Time to pull out the cell phone and call the local police to report a hostage situation.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Oh, how THAT would go over! Imagine the headlines!

PASTOR HOLDS CONGREGATION HOSTAGE FOR CASH!!!

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Vanity Unfair's avatar

That's the comment I have just deleted if anyone's interested. I cede priority.

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Leslie Goodman-Malamuth's avatar

Immediately I recalled the scene in “To Kill a Mockingbird” in which Reverend Sykes closes his church doors until his congregation donates ten dollars for Helen Robinson, whose husband had been unjustly accused of rape. Harper Lee got this idea almost seventy years ago.

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Joe King's avatar

That was about shaming the congregation into doing the right thing. This was about coercing the gullible into lining a rich man's pockets.

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Leslie Goodman-Malamuth's avatar

Excellent distinction, which I missed.

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

From the religious point of view, there isn’t any difference.

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Kay-El's avatar

If locking the doors and demanding a ransom to leave isn’t considered a hostage situation, I don’t know what is. Especially when the thief drives a luxury car and wears designer clothes. If his sheeple stay with him, they get what they deserve. There’s no buying a stairway to heaven, regardless of what the song says.

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larry parker's avatar

It's just a spring clean for the May Queen.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Yes, there are two paths you can go by. But in the long run? There's still time to change the road you're on.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

"If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now."

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

Well, before anything else, is anyone even remotely goddamn surprised?

Second, Christianity is by its very nature extortion of the vulnerable. “That sure is a nice little soul you have here, pardnuh. It sure would be a shame If something… Happened to it.”

But then, there’s this. There is ALWAYS goddamn this: “The truth is, when finances are being received in any worship gathering, it is one of the most vulnerable and exposed times for both the finance and security teams. Movement during this sacred exchange can be distracting and, at times, even risky.”

“ When finances are being received“… Note the use of the passive voice. It’s not really so bad, is it?

‘ It is one of the most vulnerable and exposed times for both the finance and security teams.’ Because if there’s one thing you hear all the time, it’s about churches being robbed. Oops excuse me. You do hear them being shot up. So where is God during all of this? Same place he was during the Holocaust— Somewhere else. It seems like the All powerful God who could be providing both finances and security isn’t doing any of that.

And whatever happened to prayer? It’s so powerful!!! Remember when Jesus said,“Whatever you ask for sincerely in my name God will grant?” Or even, “give away all that you have and follow me.” Well, Neither does he.

following Jesus is going to require finances and security, just like it did in Jesus‘s day. And look what happened to him!

But he gives it all away in three holy words: THIS SACRED EXCHANGE. It’s sort of like what happens with the communion wafer. At some point, it stops being flour and water And becomes the body of Jesus, the literal flesh, As it were, but crunchy. But in this case, it’s even more magical: YOUR money is transmogrified into HIS Money.

Glory! Praise be!

personally, to me, I feel pretty much the same about this as I do about MAGAtry FAFOing.

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Vanity Unfair's avatar

Crunchy? That's crackling. Add a light coating of honey just before turning up the gas and that's the best crackling.

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Len Koz's avatar

There's a joke about a Catholic priest, a Lutheran minister, and a rabbi deciding how to allocate money collected from their congregations. The Catholic priest says, "Let's draw a circle on the ground, then throw the money up in the air. Whatever lands in the circle we keep, whatever lands outside the circle we give to God." The Lutheran minister replies, "I agree with drawing the circle on the ground and throwing the money up in the air. But I say whatever lands in the circle we give to God and we keep whatever lands outside the circle." The rabbi thinks for a moment and says, "I know. Let us draw the circle on the ground. We throw the money in the air and whatever God wants, God keeps."

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Ben J's avatar

But what does God need with a spaceship?

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

The classic joke from the original Short Circuit. Johnny Five is ALIVE!

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Robot Bender's avatar

"What does God need a starship for?" What does God need cash for?

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Bensnewlogin's avatar

To buy eggs, of course.

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RegularJoe's avatar

God's spokesdudes sure do seem to all suffer from Chrysophilia. Hmmmm.......🤔

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

♫♪ Money-money-money-money ... MONEY! ♪♫

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

It's a rich preacher's world 🎶

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Maltnothops's avatar

Money makes the vorld go ‘round

The vorld go round

The vorld go round

Money makes the vorld go round

It makes the vorld go round.

..

Love that scene!

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

🎶A mark, a yen, a buck, or a pound...🎶🎶

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

*Sigh* it never gets old!

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

I tried to sing it in karaoke, but spouse didn’t want to learn Joel Grey’s part. He does do Wilkommen really well though, so he can be forgiven.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I find Joel’s part easier than Liza’s. It’s a fave when I’m in the shower. 😊

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Boreal's avatar

"My objection to Christianity is that it is infinitely cruel, infinitely selfish, and, I might add, infinitely absurd."

-Robert Green Ingersoll

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Die Anyway's avatar

Cruel and selfish are the good attributes.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

They take issue with "absurd," though.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Great quote! [cut-paste!]

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Whitney's avatar

"So when someone challenges people to give a specific amount, it is not unbiblical."

The relative acceptability by 'biblical' standards isn't relevant here, it's unethical and possibly illegal under some circumstances (not a lawyer, of course). Seriously, asking for money immediately after demanding the doors be closed will always sound like a threat, no matter the actual intention of the speaker. The way Bishop Sapp is bleating online about how the video posted lacks context makes no difference at all to the salient facts, and his story about David building the temple is little more than biblically sourced continued manipulation.

I also find it fascinating that Bishop Sapp called on 'ushers' to close the doors, when pretty much every church I've ever been to called them 'deacons' or 'elders' or something similar. Most services I've attended closed the sanctuary doors after the first ten to fifteen minutes; so there wouldn't have been a reason to tell the 'ushers' to close them at any point in the sermon. Closing the sanctuary doors isn't unusual, asking for those doors to be closed so far into a sermon is. Many sanctuary doors don't have locks on them at all, except a 'lock' that holds the doors fully open without a person to hold them that way. Between the two, this whole operation looks decidedly suspect even to many Christian eyes, and I would guess that's why this video went viral even so far after the fact.

Makes me very glad I don't participate in the Sunday Morning Fashion Show that so many Christian churches put on every week.

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

Someone really needs to whip the moneychangers out of the temple.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

I have a nice single-tail bullwhip that would do the trick. It makes a scary sound, too.

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Whitney's avatar

The only thing I could think of after that comment was this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxZHQh76aFk

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

How cool! I was thinking Devo's "whip it."

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

My grandfather brought back a whip from World War I. He more or less gave it to me. Maybe just an extensive loan. I almost managed to take off one of my ears with it. I've often wondered what happened to it.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

One of your siblings probably hid it!

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

I think it was my dad actually. He wasn't keen on grandad giving it to me in the first place.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Lol! Sounds like a likely suspect.

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Matri's avatar

I think I saw some archeology professor in a fedora and vest take it.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

My dad brought home a German Luger from the ETO in WW2. He had it until the day he died.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

Republican Jesus won't do it. They're His kind of people, apparently.

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Lynn Veit's avatar

Wow...From what I remember about our church's 2 big fundraisers (Lottie Moon and Annie Armstrong), there was always a giant cardboard prop (a graph in the shape of a hand-drawn thermometer) marked in money amounts instead of degrees. Each week, as the funds were raised, a red satin ribbon would be higher and higher, toward the goal amount.

While this was hardly on the same level as a minister closing the doors and not allowing anybody to leave until they paid up, the minister still managed to talk about "sacrificial giving" and "you still pay your tithes separately" and "we can see how on fire this church is for mission work."

This was all a long time ago.

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bluePNWcats's avatar

Tax the churches!!!

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Lynn Veit's avatar

Starting like yesterday.

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painedumonde's avatar

I said, what does God need with a Rolls anyway?

Jim!

C'mon Bones, God is pimp, he'd be in a Maserati.

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larry parker's avatar

My Maserati does 185

I lost my license, now I don't drive

I have a limo, ride in the back

I lock the doors in case I'm attacked

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wreck's avatar

Life's been good, eh?

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

🎶So Faaar 🎶

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ericc's avatar

He needs a Rolls/Bentley because that bastard Vishnu has a Porche and he has to show him who's king o the block.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

♫♪ Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz? / My friends all drive Porsches. I must make amends! ♪♫

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Bagat's avatar

P"pROVE THAT YOU LOVE ME AND BUY THE NEXT ROUND..."

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Actually, it's a Bentley. Po-TAY-to, Po-TAH-to.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I'd like to see Sap in a self-driving Swastikar when all hell breaks loose with him locked inside.

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painedumonde's avatar

In God's eyes, all things are possible...it's a Rolls.

(⁠。⁠•̀⁠ᴗ⁠-⁠)

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Bagat's avatar

(_!_) is far more accurate

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larry parker's avatar

"it is one of the most vulnerable and exposed times for both the finance and security teams."

God won't provide.

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