If this is the life this absurd woman has chosen for herself, then I have no sympathy for her. She appears to be someone who lives in a world beyond the reach of facts, reason, and self-esteem. The real problem, is the fact she would mandate her choices for all women if she had the power to do so. There is little chance she will ever see that perverted dream come true, but I find her mentality sickening.
Me too. She's basically extolling the virtues of being a bangmaid. Shut up, sit down, bring me a sammich, little Joey needs changing.
She's either stupid, or so deeply indoctrinated she'll never crawl out of that hole she's in to experience life. Pity. I hope no women take her seriously. I sure don't!
It's Biblical to be a doormat if you are female. Check out the wives of Orthodox Jews. It's the same with a few extra requirements thrown in like wearing a wig so no one sees your actual hair (horrors). I wonder why God made sex fun and then invented a Religion that made it a unpleasant duty. It seems to benefit only one sex, the ones who were able to write a book.
T'aint Biblical. That's what the patriarchy uses to get its own way. It's not Biblical, it's bollocks. Women were liberated by following Jesus. But men got back into control.
Can you imagine being so afraid of being single, and afraid of being alone in the world, that you do this. I mean she didn't make any effort to even try for love. The community she lives in must have severe consequences for being alone.
Don't forget, in those communities women are a commodity. If you're not out there caring for a man and pumping out babies, you're not being a good whatever the hell they think they are as a community.
I don't think I really encountered the "if it was good enough for me, it should be good enough for you" mindset until I was an adult. Both my parents and *their* parents always encouraged their kids to do more, be more, see more etc. than they did. But that's what I'm seeing here; if she could make it through life this way then dammit, there's no good reason any other woman should ever want or need more.
I can't remember ever encountering the "if it was good enough for me, it should be good enough for you" mindset. Lucky me. Especially my mother was good to back us up when we needed it.
Anyone else getting massive cope vibe from this woman?
What comes across loud and clear is that this is a woman who's trying desperately to pretend she's happy with a life that is making her miserable. All her trad wife-ing is nothing but a sad attempt at compensating for bad life choices that have left her ground down. Any time someone is that desperate to point at themselves and say, 'Look how HAPPY I am!', you can count on the fact that she's miserable. No one, not a single person, should take 'advice' from someone so lacking in self-awareness.
This. I feel a bit sorry for her, probably because she reminds me of me in my first marriage. I didn’t feel excited about marriage to my first husband, and I wasn’t attracted to him, but I thought there was something wrong with me, so I kept those feelings to myself and attempted to force myself to be happy. The church had a lot to do with it. The message that love is not a feeling/emotion was strong in the church I grew up in.
Ultimately, it didn’t work and I ended it after 14 long years of misery of trying to force myself to be happy with a man with a serious sex addiction who I didn’t even love.
Now, I’m remarried to a guy I’m crazy about and turns out there’s nothing wrong with me when paired with the right person for me. Life is too short not to have butterflies for your partner!
Well, congratulations on hitting the lottery the second time around! I would feel sorry for Lori Alexander if she, too, had the courage to just admit she's in a marriage that's draining the life out of her instead of pretending she's on some holier-than-thou mission, and that suffering through life with a spouse who makes you miserable is securing your place heaven. That's where I draw the line. Life is too short not to spend it with the person who makes you happy!
It was really hard to break away! I was so brainwashed to believe that was the right thing to do. I was so scared of going to hell. I woke up little by little. And I’m so glad I did, I count myself very lucky for that, and for finding my current husband.
What finally did it for me was another woman in a support group I was in said she was leaving her husband because she “didn’t want to die the way she’d been living”. I don’t know why, but hearing that helped me decide to break away. It was scary AF, I had panic attacks every day for months. But little by little I started to feel happy, truly happy, and it was weird at first. I still thought I was maybe going to hell, but didn’t care, at that point.
Get busy living, or get busy dying. Absolutely gd right!
OMG, Theressa. It sounds like you were in a high-demand religion, probably from birth? The indoctrination we got as children sinks in DEEP. Even years later, when our rational minds know better, it's still hard to overcome those deed-seeded emotions. They play on you, even when you know better, when you're in a better place.
Most people I know who, like me, deconverted as adults went through something similar. It was a process, a long one. The only regret I have now is that I didn't wise up and act sooner. But there's no value in thinking about that, I know. I'm just happy for the life I have now and being with the man I love and who loves me.
Pretty much! My mother became a “born again” Christian at a southern revival the year I was born. She had been abandoned by my father and that conversion probably saved her life in a way, but also enslaved us both. My birth was always connected to this conversion and my grandfather’s, where he was “healed” of his alcoholism. Though, to his credit, he never did take another drink.
Sounds like you also have similar experiences!
I seriously could write a book about my experiences with evangelism that many would find unbelievable. Healings! Prophecy! Baptism in the Spirit! Tongues! But also suffering, pain and destruction of self confidence and esteem. Never being “holy” enough will do that.
I also try not to think about how I should have seen it earlier. There’s no good in that. I look forward and try to learn from it and share what I can of my experience in the hope it will help someone.
I’m so glad you are happy and have someone who loves you and that you love. That’s so valuable in this world. ❤️
I'd say we're both pretty lucky! Also, if you want to trade stories, I could tell you some hair-raising ones about growing up catholic and going to parochial school taught by nuns. Oy vey!!
Conservative Christians like to claim liberals want to suck the joy out of everything and make everyone as miserable as they are. It looks like another case of projection.
This is what purity culture does to people. As hateful and bigoted as her words of "advice" are, I still feel some pity for her. She has been so deeply indoctrinated that she truly believes that the lifetime of misery she has suffered is somehow happiness. And that the controlling authoritarian rule of her husband is the best way to live.
Nope. Love, Joy, Feminism mentioned her often. From what I remember her parents sent her to college, she didn't want to go. I bet she jumped on the first half decent man to escape it. En gros, she inflicted this life of misery to herself.
For what I can tell, she thinks that she is OBLIGED to take this attitude, because that's what her bible tells her to do. Apparently, Jesus' statement that: "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly" means nothing to her.
Yeah - and I don't get the whole thing about divorce. Jesus had his disciples abandon their families and tells them that they must hate their parents and children and wives and love only him. They only hear the parts their cult leaders want them to hear.
The only reason I can think of for why she inflicted the misery onto herself is the depth of indoctrination as a child. She was miserable growing up, jumped to get out of the horror of her parents home, but the indoctrination was so deep that she couldn't allow herself to escape the misery she landed in.
I think for some people, dependency is addictive; the longer you do it, the harder it is to give up and the more fearful giving it up can be.
Yeah probably her upbringing set her up for that failure. Few chances to be independent as a kid would make having to be independent as a young adult that much scarier.
The solution to which is NOT 'ladies, never be independent'. It's 'girls, we're going to give you lots of independence now so that in your 20s you won't be scared of it.'
You're onto something there. After 18 years of never being allowed to make my own decisions, I couldn't wait to escape to college, but quickly discovered that I had no clue how to make my own decisions and set up my life. After a couple years of bad decisions and bad situations, and roommates teaching me basic life skills like driving, getting a driver's license, setting up checking accounts and balancing checkbooks, etc. ("How did you not know this already?!?") I was finally able to feel "at home" in my own place instead of thinking of it as "temporarily camping out" and feeling that my parents' house was "home." But even now, I still stress out over things that should be minor irritations at best, and I still prefer the path of least resistance.
In middle school we were all taught how to balance a checkbook, and how to type. This was in St. Petersburg during the late 70s. Everybody also went through Home Ec., Small Engine Repair, Wood Shop, and Print Shop.
We took a class in high school called General business and learned all that plus basic bookkeeping. I was the only girl in shop class in the late 70's in Bradenton.
Where I lived, there was nothing like checkbook balancing. Typing was required, as was Home Ec (which I considered a waste of time, because it dealt strictly with cooking and sewing; no real "economic" angle was considered.) And girls were banned from Ag classes, auto mechanics, and ALL shop classes. That was for boys only.
Agreed, Joe. She’s not seeing the forest for the trees. She doesn’t know any other way, has no frame of reference for a different way to live. She was indoctrinated by the church to fear bending any rules and that imprinting will remain forever. I wish she could know freedom.
Not to bring in politics but people ask me all the time how it is that women can be involved in todays’ Republican Party. This woman is a prime example of how. Brainwashed to never have an independent thought. To never think they can or should be prepared to take care of themselves or their children.
They just think they need a ‘strongman’ to protect and shield them. NO MATTER WHAT
Men impose patriarchy on women, putting them at much greater risk in life. So, the idea that men are the “protectors” of women is ludicrous in the extreme.
I think many of us were brought up that way, to one degree or another; but thank goodness many of us have been able to break free and use our own intelligence to make better choices.
Wow. Nobody ever "stole my joy!" She would hate the track of my life. While other kids in high school were exploring the rituals of dating and boyfriends, I was flying hawks. Falconry was my passion! Joined the Army, won the Book Award and graduated top of the language classes at DLI, worked as a Vietnamese linguist at the Pickle Factory in Ft. Meade.
Got out, took up hang gliding. Wheee! That was fun! Lived on a boat in Washington, sang in a couple of punk rock bands. Got a job as a motorcycle messenger in San Francisco. Worked at a parrot store back in San Diego. One of the first real telecommuters; doing animations for Codehammer in London.
Like the poster said, "Oh shi- I forgot to get married and have kids!"
I realized I didn't want kids soon after I started babysitting. I did not like babysitting, but my mom would set me up with her friends with no input from me.
Chronic vaginismus is a strong sign that she does not care to have intercourse with her spouse. How her pituitary gland got damaged is a mystery, but decades of dreading sex with her spouse has gotta have take a toll on her whole body.
I thought of that a long time ago. Sex is bad, you're taught as a girl. Don't do it. Point and hoot at the girl from your class for getting knocked up. Bad girl!
Then when you marry, suddenly it's okay. Good luck overcoming those years of mental conditioning, amirite?
Perimenopause and menopausal hormone changes do a number on many women as well. Dryness is a classic symptom of the genitourinary syndrome of menopause, and hormonal replacement therapy could have provided her relief.
Physical at least. It won’t fix not finding your spouse attractive.
When I was a out to enter seventh grade, my grandmother came to my parents with a marvellous idea, since I was nearly 12 years old, school was not necessary anymore. My father would probably have caved if not married to DM. Horrible grandmother 1 was lucky she didn't say that to DM grandmother, her answer wouldn't have been polite, probably even physical. She was not a mean woman but had quite a temper and was a feminist in all but name.
When I graduated HS in 1969, our mailbox was inundated with marriage crap. Ads for photographers, dress stores, printers, florists... oh yeah, the message was very clear. Girls leave high school and get married. It offended TF out of me.
Oh, and if you want to see a real horror movie, find Target Earth online.
The horror wasn't the robots, 1950s robots were crude and silly things. No, the horror was actually the portrayal of women and their treatment back then.
I'm a year younger than you (graduated high school in 1970) and this barrage began for me *the summer after sixth grade* (1964). I kid you not. Of course, since I was very young there had been exactly two life options on offer for me: Catholic Martyr Mother of Many, and nun. I'd already made it clear, during 6th grade (I was 11) that the Mother of Many role was off the table, so most of the flyers/ads/etc were for catholic religious orders, but still. During spring of 7th grade (1965, I was 12) my mom authorized our church's order of nuns to take me on a week-long trip, along with six other girls who were also being targeted by the nuns, to their mother house, which was a huge property in Santa Monica, just north of Los Angeles. The trip home was delayed by a week because the 18-year-old novice driving got in a car accident and was in the hospital. I remember looking at her, when we visited, thinking "that's me", and shuddering. Yeah, that's what they wanted for me. Even now, at--lord, it's been 60 years' remove!--I find it hard to talk about that horror show. (Thanks--that's my next topic to raise with my therapist.) Anyhow, the ad barrage and at least weekly nun and priests visits continued til I ran away from home at 17.
Two women on my mother's side became nuns. One killed herself, the other one quit, got married, and had a life.
This is why they target the young, inexperienced children. You were lucky to have a rebellious character that rejected all that grooming. And yes, it is grooming! Well, Lucifer was a rebellious angel, so I guess that makes us Hellions, at least in the church's eyes!
Even though I don't remember catholics articulating the "4-to-14 window" when I was a kid, that's exactly what they were doing: getting 'em young and dumb. Oddly enough, for me and my siblings, that backfired in what I can only call an epic fashion. By the time each of us were 11 or so, each of us had discarded catholicism. Today, we are all various flavors of non-believer, as are all the next generation. I told someone about this once and they responded that we must have either been smart for young kids, or had some other major non-religious influence in our lives. Well, no, not really. We were just ordinary working-class kids of our time. There was a lot of resentment about being dragged to catechism every Saturday and church every Sunday and being forced to pray the rosary every day. So we outwardly conformed, and mostly ran away at the first opprtunity. And passed down the non-belief to the next generation, despite some flirting with catholic schools and the like. My own opinion is that when something is that repressive--and stupid--most people end up figuring there are only two options: go along to get along (no matter what you actually want), or head for the hills. The last is what two generations of my family chose.
It was seriously creepy. And serious targeting. Imagine having to kneel in front of any of these groomers when they showed up unannounced at the front door. And not get to one's feet again until "blessed". I suspect that I might have been specially targeted because (a) I was the eldest, (b) I'd asked questions as early as second grade--and gotten tossed out of catechism for "asking inappropriate questions", and (c) had, er, "misbehaved" during confirmation and had had to be forced to go through with the ritual. There's nothing these types like better than breaking a kid's"rebellious spirit" (whatever that means.) That's a delightful side note to targeting/grooming. Adds the "or else" coda to the whole thing.
Oh my I am so sorry… I really didn’t realize how quickly things changed.
‘The Pill’. Really did change everything.
I graduated in 1974. The big push then for me even as a female was to join the military. Of course I’m from SanDiego a military town. And both my parents were veterans.
Very much so. When I ran away to college in the fall of 1970, the legal age of majority was 21, not 18. That single change had a major impact on things like medical privacy, voting rights, the ability to sign contracts, and (a few years later) to get loans. I can remember, in the summer of 1972, standing in a long line of excited young people at Silly Hall, waiting to register to vote for the first time. In 1970, doctors couldn't prescribe The Pill for unmarried, underage women *for birth control purposes.* My doc got around this prohibition by prescribing it for "regulation of menstrual cycle." (That was actually true, but how many docs had to stretch the truth?) I can remember how, even within families, talking about illness (cancer, for example) and death just wasn't done. I was 16 when my paternal grandmother was hospitalized and then died. Nobody ever talked about her. (I found out decades later that she'd died of breast cancer, which was unmentionable.) There were words that nobody said, like "rape." There were concepts that didn't exist, like domestic abuse. I remember women struggling to coin words to describe what was going on, like sexual harrassment. I remember girls and women being badgered about "what were you wearing?" and "didn't you enjoy it?" when they reported rape or abuse to the police--and the struggle to get hospitals to collect samples for rape kits. (And don't get me started on rape kits that were just stuck in a box and ignored, or what happened to women in courtrooms!) The point I'm making here is that these small changes didn't just happen. People fought for them, they accumulated over decades, *and we still aren't done*, and now they want to go back. Maybe that's one reason we elders can be valuable: here's what it was, here's what we did, here's why we fucking aren't going back.
My family was blessed with the opposite. My grandpa got back from WWII, went to work in a West Virginia quarry. He and grandma had three daughters...and when they were born, promptly started saving enough for the girls to go to college. Emphazised academics all the way K-12. Result; one PhD, one CPA, one Associate degree. Not bad for that era, in WV.
Yeah God bless my dear departed Mom.. she was raised a sharecropper in East Texas .. joined the Navy WW2. Made a new life for herself in SanDiego and saved for me to go to college ( yeah when it was clear I was a no go on the military route) she paid my way through my first degree.
Regarding her performance issues and the pain involved, I have some experience with that. There was an incident where I was injured during average, perfectly normal intercourse and I was close to bleeding out by the time the paramedics arrived. I required a blood transfusion and surgery to repair the tear inside. This traumatized me, but what was worse was that my boyfriend, who watched as I bled out, pressured me to have intercourse with him before the time the doctor told me it would be safe to. She is pretty nonchalant regarding the idea of intercourse no matter your desire. This kind of thing, I would think, would be more likely to happen when she isn’t into it than when she is ready to go. Women have been raped to death as well. Sex is dangerous all in its own for women, most people don’t know this and it isn’t discussed during whatever sex ed is available. She should be careful with the pain she experiences in the bedroom, it could cost her.
Not only that, but the idea that she’s not losing a finger or suffering like the martyrs in other countries isn’t a winning argument for this lifestyle. Everyone’s tolerance for pain is different and I would bet she would be surprised how comparable her pain is to the tortures they commit elsewhere. We’re just figuring out that normal period cramps are similar to heart attacks and even the pain of childbirth. I have had pain during intercourse also, my hubs is tuned into me enough to stop when I say and understanding enough to be considerate of these things, even any time I recall my accident (it wasn’t him who did it and he understood when I told him about it, I am really lucky to have him because he’s not only someone I still feel butterflies over but works at the relationship as much as I do, sometimes more). Much of what makes torture torture is the knowing it’s going to hurt and still having to experience it. It doesn’t have to be the worst pain in the world, but it lasts for a while and it happens over and over and over. Torture Olympics is not a good thing to do.
IDK, what I’m saying is she is downplaying her pain as a way to gaslight herself into believing it’s not so bad. You don’t have to live like that, and I don’t understand wanting to.
That boyfriend sounds like a typical MCP asshole. He reminds me of one guy a friend of mine was dating years ago. He was extremely dismissive of any and all female pain, because In his words, "women are born whiners and they always exaggerate/lie about having headaches, having cramps, not feeling well. It's all in their heads. What they all need is a good swift kick in the ass, then they can complain."
As I read this, I think that could have been me. There was a time in my life where I believed all of that. Marriage was a commitment, obedience to God, not about one’s own choice and the idea of any kind of pleasure was in knowing you were serving God by serving, submitting, and obeying your husband. Thankfully there was always a little thread in me that resisted and then as life evolved, so did my mindset. In some ways it feels like a lifetime ago. I have friends that have also come out of the same mindset but I also have some family that believe this (perpetuate it) and live it through and through. This is result of patriarchal power that uses religion to uphold it. The craziest part to me is that it’s not even a true reflection of the tenants their religion is based off of.
But it's very convenient for the men that wrote the Bible who get a unpaid maid, sex object, and baby producer who can't leave but it's ok to beat her if she's not obedient. As a incentive you get the title of Wife and some status instead of just a slave.
My friend was running a craft booth at her local farmer’s market two summers ago. Her booth had some vintage items, some of her hand made jewelry, some politically inspired clothing (mostly defending abortion access) and some of my pottery. For some reason the JWs decided to park their stand right across from her booth. Now, the JWs were not part of the farmer’s market, they didn’t pay booth fees like the other vendors, they just did their typical weekly stand inside the farmer’s market area. But every week they would setup right across from my friend, she even moved to different parts of the market to get away from them, and there they’d be, right across from her. No big deal, right? Wrong. They stood across from her booth glaring at her all day. They ignored everyone else. Well, the two men standing with the brochure rack were glaring at her. Other members, little old women mostly, would walk into her booth and engage her in conversation, to the point where customers were having a difficult time making purchases, and chastise her for supporting abortion access.
One of these women told her all about her life of being raped, becoming pregnant, marrying her attacker and raising his babies, never getting to do what she dreamed of doing and see how it all worked out for her. My friend’s response was to ask her if she truly wanted that life for her granddaughters? And honestly, it doesn’t seem like it worked out all that well for her. Not to me anyway. Sure she’s lived to be however old she is and is dressed and fed, but she expressed how miserable she really was in much of the conversation, and she never had the opportunity to even try to pursue her dreams. After this particular conversation, my friend said the ladies stopped going into her booth for the rest of the summer, but the men were still across from her trying to intimidate her.
These women were told that this was just how it’s supposed to be, never thought they could have done any different, or had anything else in life. Anderson knows she could do anything and still chose this life, but worse, tells everyone else this is the only way. She’s miserable, we all know it. She just thinks the only way to make it worthwhile is to ensure everyone else is miserable too. To make it so that there is no other way, otherwise she has to face the fact that she did this to herself. Even with the professional help from nannies and maids, she hated being the SAHM she says every woman should be. But she thought actually working was too much work. Whatever. Let her boil in her misery and beef tallow. I’m living my best life. And I’m giving my daughter the options to live her best life as well.
They live in a make-believe world where belief is everything. They believe a cherry-picked version of their bible. They believe in some reward/ punishment in the spirit world: heaven - for them, hell for everyone else. Women are supposed to be submissive and silent. Men make all the decisions. Suffering is good. Women are only supposed to be wives and mothers, and pop out as many babies as possible - and from what I read, beat the tar out of the little darlings to turn them into "disciplined adults". Sounds like Gilead to me - self-imposed, but Gilead nonetheless.
Actually the Bible was put together in 325 AD during the Council of Nicaea under a Roman Emperor and it emphasized obedience to those in authority as God's plan also. They were in authority because of God so if you disobeyed not only could you be executed but you would burn for eternity in hellfire. Very convenient for those people in power and slaves and wives could expect a reward after they died. Convenient also for bumping off useless people as you were doing them a favor as God would take care of rewards and punishment while you were relieved of them.
I read a book when I was in my 20s called A Road Less Traveled by Dr. Scott Peck one thing really stuck out in my head and that was in reference to a relationship, the stronger your base camp, the higher you can each climb your mountains. Sadly this woman will never approach that. I’ve been married for 25 years to the love of my life, still the love of my life, both of us are still growing. I actually got that picket fence that Hollywood talks about!
The other principal I found useful in that book… Life’s a bitch, once you accept that, it ceases to be. You see a family in New Guinea living in a tree eating grubs laughing and enjoying life…
She complains that Christians are abused around the world when the reality is Christians are abusing people around the world, they simply like playing the victim to cover who they really are.
If this is the life this absurd woman has chosen for herself, then I have no sympathy for her. She appears to be someone who lives in a world beyond the reach of facts, reason, and self-esteem. The real problem, is the fact she would mandate her choices for all women if she had the power to do so. There is little chance she will ever see that perverted dream come true, but I find her mentality sickening.
Me too. She's basically extolling the virtues of being a bangmaid. Shut up, sit down, bring me a sammich, little Joey needs changing.
She's either stupid, or so deeply indoctrinated she'll never crawl out of that hole she's in to experience life. Pity. I hope no women take her seriously. I sure don't!
Some women just want to be door mats.
It's Biblical to be a doormat if you are female. Check out the wives of Orthodox Jews. It's the same with a few extra requirements thrown in like wearing a wig so no one sees your actual hair (horrors). I wonder why God made sex fun and then invented a Religion that made it a unpleasant duty. It seems to benefit only one sex, the ones who were able to write a book.
T'aint Biblical. That's what the patriarchy uses to get its own way. It's not Biblical, it's bollocks. Women were liberated by following Jesus. But men got back into control.
If they're brainwashed and beaten down enough, they may not even be aware of options.
Can you imagine being so afraid of being single, and afraid of being alone in the world, that you do this. I mean she didn't make any effort to even try for love. The community she lives in must have severe consequences for being alone.
Don't forget, in those communities women are a commodity. If you're not out there caring for a man and pumping out babies, you're not being a good whatever the hell they think they are as a community.
I don't think I really encountered the "if it was good enough for me, it should be good enough for you" mindset until I was an adult. Both my parents and *their* parents always encouraged their kids to do more, be more, see more etc. than they did. But that's what I'm seeing here; if she could make it through life this way then dammit, there's no good reason any other woman should ever want or need more.
Neither of my parents ever encouraged me to do anything, but my father never forgave me for not having grown up to be him.
I can't remember ever encountering the "if it was good enough for me, it should be good enough for you" mindset. Lucky me. Especially my mother was good to back us up when we needed it.
You've been reported.
Anyone else getting massive cope vibe from this woman?
What comes across loud and clear is that this is a woman who's trying desperately to pretend she's happy with a life that is making her miserable. All her trad wife-ing is nothing but a sad attempt at compensating for bad life choices that have left her ground down. Any time someone is that desperate to point at themselves and say, 'Look how HAPPY I am!', you can count on the fact that she's miserable. No one, not a single person, should take 'advice' from someone so lacking in self-awareness.
Or self-esteem. Or self-respect. Or ...
This. I feel a bit sorry for her, probably because she reminds me of me in my first marriage. I didn’t feel excited about marriage to my first husband, and I wasn’t attracted to him, but I thought there was something wrong with me, so I kept those feelings to myself and attempted to force myself to be happy. The church had a lot to do with it. The message that love is not a feeling/emotion was strong in the church I grew up in.
Ultimately, it didn’t work and I ended it after 14 long years of misery of trying to force myself to be happy with a man with a serious sex addiction who I didn’t even love.
Now, I’m remarried to a guy I’m crazy about and turns out there’s nothing wrong with me when paired with the right person for me. Life is too short not to have butterflies for your partner!
Well, congratulations on hitting the lottery the second time around! I would feel sorry for Lori Alexander if she, too, had the courage to just admit she's in a marriage that's draining the life out of her instead of pretending she's on some holier-than-thou mission, and that suffering through life with a spouse who makes you miserable is securing your place heaven. That's where I draw the line. Life is too short not to spend it with the person who makes you happy!
It was really hard to break away! I was so brainwashed to believe that was the right thing to do. I was so scared of going to hell. I woke up little by little. And I’m so glad I did, I count myself very lucky for that, and for finding my current husband.
What finally did it for me was another woman in a support group I was in said she was leaving her husband because she “didn’t want to die the way she’d been living”. I don’t know why, but hearing that helped me decide to break away. It was scary AF, I had panic attacks every day for months. But little by little I started to feel happy, truly happy, and it was weird at first. I still thought I was maybe going to hell, but didn’t care, at that point.
Get busy living, or get busy dying. Absolutely gd right!
OMG, Theressa. It sounds like you were in a high-demand religion, probably from birth? The indoctrination we got as children sinks in DEEP. Even years later, when our rational minds know better, it's still hard to overcome those deed-seeded emotions. They play on you, even when you know better, when you're in a better place.
Most people I know who, like me, deconverted as adults went through something similar. It was a process, a long one. The only regret I have now is that I didn't wise up and act sooner. But there's no value in thinking about that, I know. I'm just happy for the life I have now and being with the man I love and who loves me.
Pretty much! My mother became a “born again” Christian at a southern revival the year I was born. She had been abandoned by my father and that conversion probably saved her life in a way, but also enslaved us both. My birth was always connected to this conversion and my grandfather’s, where he was “healed” of his alcoholism. Though, to his credit, he never did take another drink.
Sounds like you also have similar experiences!
I seriously could write a book about my experiences with evangelism that many would find unbelievable. Healings! Prophecy! Baptism in the Spirit! Tongues! But also suffering, pain and destruction of self confidence and esteem. Never being “holy” enough will do that.
I also try not to think about how I should have seen it earlier. There’s no good in that. I look forward and try to learn from it and share what I can of my experience in the hope it will help someone.
I’m so glad you are happy and have someone who loves you and that you love. That’s so valuable in this world. ❤️
I'd say we're both pretty lucky! Also, if you want to trade stories, I could tell you some hair-raising ones about growing up catholic and going to parochial school taught by nuns. Oy vey!!
Conservative Christians like to claim liberals want to suck the joy out of everything and make everyone as miserable as they are. It looks like another case of projection.
IMAX on steroids projection.
Just redefine joy. Joy is getting exactly what you expect.
It *Always is* with that lot.
Looks like my paternal grandparents marriage. What was admirable is that neither of them killed the other.
Beef tallow woman lives in the wrong country. She should book s plane ticket to Afghanistan. No petty working or doctor women there.
Some women in this country have no idea how women under the yoke of male religious extremists live.
She probably has fantasies about the puritan era, like halitosis.
I wonder how she would take to wearing a burqa or a niqab.
Like a duck to water if you told her that's how Mary Magdalyn, beloved of Jesus dressed.
Beef tallow woman 🤣🤣🤣
It dates way back on patheos. I saw on L, J, F, this despicable example of inhumanity use beef tallow as an hygiene product.
Take One of what would become the Guess Who's "American Woman?" 😉
Every time she writes that, I think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDO-Kk9956g
This is what purity culture does to people. As hateful and bigoted as her words of "advice" are, I still feel some pity for her. She has been so deeply indoctrinated that she truly believes that the lifetime of misery she has suffered is somehow happiness. And that the controlling authoritarian rule of her husband is the best way to live.
Religion reverses everything.
Nope. Love, Joy, Feminism mentioned her often. From what I remember her parents sent her to college, she didn't want to go. I bet she jumped on the first half decent man to escape it. En gros, she inflicted this life of misery to herself.
For what I can tell, she thinks that she is OBLIGED to take this attitude, because that's what her bible tells her to do. Apparently, Jesus' statement that: "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly" means nothing to her.
Yeah - and I don't get the whole thing about divorce. Jesus had his disciples abandon their families and tells them that they must hate their parents and children and wives and love only him. They only hear the parts their cult leaders want them to hear.
They aren't allowed to actually read their book, it is just a prop to point out the failings of others!
The only reason I can think of for why she inflicted the misery onto herself is the depth of indoctrination as a child. She was miserable growing up, jumped to get out of the horror of her parents home, but the indoctrination was so deep that she couldn't allow herself to escape the misery she landed in.
I think for some people, dependency is addictive; the longer you do it, the harder it is to give up and the more fearful giving it up can be.
Yeah probably her upbringing set her up for that failure. Few chances to be independent as a kid would make having to be independent as a young adult that much scarier.
The solution to which is NOT 'ladies, never be independent'. It's 'girls, we're going to give you lots of independence now so that in your 20s you won't be scared of it.'
You're onto something there. After 18 years of never being allowed to make my own decisions, I couldn't wait to escape to college, but quickly discovered that I had no clue how to make my own decisions and set up my life. After a couple years of bad decisions and bad situations, and roommates teaching me basic life skills like driving, getting a driver's license, setting up checking accounts and balancing checkbooks, etc. ("How did you not know this already?!?") I was finally able to feel "at home" in my own place instead of thinking of it as "temporarily camping out" and feeling that my parents' house was "home." But even now, I still stress out over things that should be minor irritations at best, and I still prefer the path of least resistance.
In middle school we were all taught how to balance a checkbook, and how to type. This was in St. Petersburg during the late 70s. Everybody also went through Home Ec., Small Engine Repair, Wood Shop, and Print Shop.
We took a class in high school called General business and learned all that plus basic bookkeeping. I was the only girl in shop class in the late 70's in Bradenton.
Where I lived, there was nothing like checkbook balancing. Typing was required, as was Home Ec (which I considered a waste of time, because it dealt strictly with cooking and sewing; no real "economic" angle was considered.) And girls were banned from Ag classes, auto mechanics, and ALL shop classes. That was for boys only.
This was deep in Fundy bible-belt territory.
I grew up in 60’s-70’s California.. supposedly ‘the best’ at the time.
I purposely took typing in summer school and the non college prep Business oriented Math where they taught writing checks etc. all this was voluntary.
Why do you think Mormon girls go to college? It ain't for a degree, it's to meet a nice man to latch on to for life.
Agreed, Joe. She’s not seeing the forest for the trees. She doesn’t know any other way, has no frame of reference for a different way to live. She was indoctrinated by the church to fear bending any rules and that imprinting will remain forever. I wish she could know freedom.
Not to bring in politics but people ask me all the time how it is that women can be involved in todays’ Republican Party. This woman is a prime example of how. Brainwashed to never have an independent thought. To never think they can or should be prepared to take care of themselves or their children.
They just think they need a ‘strongman’ to protect and shield them. NO MATTER WHAT
Men impose patriarchy on women, putting them at much greater risk in life. So, the idea that men are the “protectors” of women is ludicrous in the extreme.
I think many of us were brought up that way, to one degree or another; but thank goodness many of us have been able to break free and use our own intelligence to make better choices.
Wow. Nobody ever "stole my joy!" She would hate the track of my life. While other kids in high school were exploring the rituals of dating and boyfriends, I was flying hawks. Falconry was my passion! Joined the Army, won the Book Award and graduated top of the language classes at DLI, worked as a Vietnamese linguist at the Pickle Factory in Ft. Meade.
Got out, took up hang gliding. Wheee! That was fun! Lived on a boat in Washington, sang in a couple of punk rock bands. Got a job as a motorcycle messenger in San Francisco. Worked at a parrot store back in San Diego. One of the first real telecommuters; doing animations for Codehammer in London.
Like the poster said, "Oh shi- I forgot to get married and have kids!"
Same here. Les enfants, je les aime bien mais chez les autres. Being an aunt is way better, you can give the children back when you have enough.
I realized I didn't want kids soon after I started babysitting. I did not like babysitting, but my mom would set me up with her friends with no input from me.
The only thing I liked was the money.
Yes, I couldn't image dealing with one 24/7.
"worked as a Vietnamese linguist at the Pickle Factory in Ft. Meade."
OK, that one sounds like a Mad Lib.
Prerequisite for working at a parrot store.
Do parrots eat pickles?
Polly want a gherkin.
Edit: Or, Polly muốn có một quả dưa chuột.
😆
I've heard NSA referred to as the Pickle Palace, or Pickle Factory.
Never found out why because, meh.
Well since it’s NSA.. it’s probably best not to know🤔. They could tell you but… then they would have to….
You are awesome! Living YOUR life 🩷
Chronic vaginismus is a strong sign that she does not care to have intercourse with her spouse. How her pituitary gland got damaged is a mystery, but decades of dreading sex with her spouse has gotta have take a toll on her whole body.
When you are taught repeatedly that sex is dirty and disgusting and to be barely tolerated, the body may take those lessons seriously.
And that is a damned shame, regardless of who we're talking about.
I thought of that a long time ago. Sex is bad, you're taught as a girl. Don't do it. Point and hoot at the girl from your class for getting knocked up. Bad girl!
Then when you marry, suddenly it's okay. Good luck overcoming those years of mental conditioning, amirite?
Yup. 44 years old here and still having to deal with that shit I was taught.
Too right, sad to say.
KY Jelly is of the DEVIL!!!
What is this Kentucky Jelly people keep talking about? Is it good on toast?
🤣🤣🤣 That's what I needed on a Monday: a really GOOD LAUGH!
I thought it was kiwi jelly.
LOL!
It's better on buns
Fun on a bun, baby! -- Bender Rodriguez
😄😂🤣🥰👍🏻
And Astroglide is the height of perversion! 😱
A slippery slope to pleasure.
Beware, or we all slide into a chain of bad puns.
Like peanut butter and chocolate go well in a Reese's so go chains and Astroglide.
Rice cakes and gochujang for me. Or Zorg's favorite, pinapple and pizza.
I felt rebellious a couple days ago. I bought a Hawaiian burrito with bbq pork and pineapple. IN A BURRITO! OH, THE HORROR!
🤬🖕
Pleasure is of the DEVIL as well, if you believe the yahoos.
Epicurus said, "Pleasure is the lack of suffering."
Works for me! Suffering sucks donkey balls.
Don't knock donkey balls, they were good enough for the young lady in Ezekiel 23:20.
LOL! Well, whatever honks yer donkey, eh?
🤣🤣🤣
🎯
Menopause really does a number on the WAP.
Perimenopause and menopausal hormone changes do a number on many women as well. Dryness is a classic symptom of the genitourinary syndrome of menopause, and hormonal replacement therapy could have provided her relief.
Physical at least. It won’t fix not finding your spouse attractive.
Horrifying and comical all at the same time until the reality of someone living (and advocating) for other women to do the same hits you. She’s awful!
If I have to do it so must you kind of warped mentality.
When I was a out to enter seventh grade, my grandmother came to my parents with a marvellous idea, since I was nearly 12 years old, school was not necessary anymore. My father would probably have caved if not married to DM. Horrible grandmother 1 was lucky she didn't say that to DM grandmother, her answer wouldn't have been polite, probably even physical. She was not a mean woman but had quite a temper and was a feminist in all but name.
When I graduated HS in 1969, our mailbox was inundated with marriage crap. Ads for photographers, dress stores, printers, florists... oh yeah, the message was very clear. Girls leave high school and get married. It offended TF out of me.
Oh, and if you want to see a real horror movie, find Target Earth online.
The horror wasn't the robots, 1950s robots were crude and silly things. No, the horror was actually the portrayal of women and their treatment back then.
Watch it, I dare ya!
I'm a year younger than you (graduated high school in 1970) and this barrage began for me *the summer after sixth grade* (1964). I kid you not. Of course, since I was very young there had been exactly two life options on offer for me: Catholic Martyr Mother of Many, and nun. I'd already made it clear, during 6th grade (I was 11) that the Mother of Many role was off the table, so most of the flyers/ads/etc were for catholic religious orders, but still. During spring of 7th grade (1965, I was 12) my mom authorized our church's order of nuns to take me on a week-long trip, along with six other girls who were also being targeted by the nuns, to their mother house, which was a huge property in Santa Monica, just north of Los Angeles. The trip home was delayed by a week because the 18-year-old novice driving got in a car accident and was in the hospital. I remember looking at her, when we visited, thinking "that's me", and shuddering. Yeah, that's what they wanted for me. Even now, at--lord, it's been 60 years' remove!--I find it hard to talk about that horror show. (Thanks--that's my next topic to raise with my therapist.) Anyhow, the ad barrage and at least weekly nun and priests visits continued til I ran away from home at 17.
Two women on my mother's side became nuns. One killed herself, the other one quit, got married, and had a life.
This is why they target the young, inexperienced children. You were lucky to have a rebellious character that rejected all that grooming. And yes, it is grooming! Well, Lucifer was a rebellious angel, so I guess that makes us Hellions, at least in the church's eyes!
Even though I don't remember catholics articulating the "4-to-14 window" when I was a kid, that's exactly what they were doing: getting 'em young and dumb. Oddly enough, for me and my siblings, that backfired in what I can only call an epic fashion. By the time each of us were 11 or so, each of us had discarded catholicism. Today, we are all various flavors of non-believer, as are all the next generation. I told someone about this once and they responded that we must have either been smart for young kids, or had some other major non-religious influence in our lives. Well, no, not really. We were just ordinary working-class kids of our time. There was a lot of resentment about being dragged to catechism every Saturday and church every Sunday and being forced to pray the rosary every day. So we outwardly conformed, and mostly ran away at the first opprtunity. And passed down the non-belief to the next generation, despite some flirting with catholic schools and the like. My own opinion is that when something is that repressive--and stupid--most people end up figuring there are only two options: go along to get along (no matter what you actually want), or head for the hills. The last is what two generations of my family chose.
WEEKLY VISITS?!?! That is some serious targeting. Sounds creepy and intimidating as hell.
It was seriously creepy. And serious targeting. Imagine having to kneel in front of any of these groomers when they showed up unannounced at the front door. And not get to one's feet again until "blessed". I suspect that I might have been specially targeted because (a) I was the eldest, (b) I'd asked questions as early as second grade--and gotten tossed out of catechism for "asking inappropriate questions", and (c) had, er, "misbehaved" during confirmation and had had to be forced to go through with the ritual. There's nothing these types like better than breaking a kid's"rebellious spirit" (whatever that means.) That's a delightful side note to targeting/grooming. Adds the "or else" coda to the whole thing.
Oh my I am so sorry… I really didn’t realize how quickly things changed.
‘The Pill’. Really did change everything.
I graduated in 1974. The big push then for me even as a female was to join the military. Of course I’m from SanDiego a military town. And both my parents were veterans.
Very much so. When I ran away to college in the fall of 1970, the legal age of majority was 21, not 18. That single change had a major impact on things like medical privacy, voting rights, the ability to sign contracts, and (a few years later) to get loans. I can remember, in the summer of 1972, standing in a long line of excited young people at Silly Hall, waiting to register to vote for the first time. In 1970, doctors couldn't prescribe The Pill for unmarried, underage women *for birth control purposes.* My doc got around this prohibition by prescribing it for "regulation of menstrual cycle." (That was actually true, but how many docs had to stretch the truth?) I can remember how, even within families, talking about illness (cancer, for example) and death just wasn't done. I was 16 when my paternal grandmother was hospitalized and then died. Nobody ever talked about her. (I found out decades later that she'd died of breast cancer, which was unmentionable.) There were words that nobody said, like "rape." There were concepts that didn't exist, like domestic abuse. I remember women struggling to coin words to describe what was going on, like sexual harrassment. I remember girls and women being badgered about "what were you wearing?" and "didn't you enjoy it?" when they reported rape or abuse to the police--and the struggle to get hospitals to collect samples for rape kits. (And don't get me started on rape kits that were just stuck in a box and ignored, or what happened to women in courtrooms!) The point I'm making here is that these small changes didn't just happen. People fought for them, they accumulated over decades, *and we still aren't done*, and now they want to go back. Maybe that's one reason we elders can be valuable: here's what it was, here's what we did, here's why we fucking aren't going back.
We are same age group. "Girls leave high school and get married". Boys leave high school and get drafted! Vietnam was in full swing back then.
I forgot a detail, Dianne and you are the same generation as my mother. This nugget of progressive thinking ? In the fucking early 90's.
My family was blessed with the opposite. My grandpa got back from WWII, went to work in a West Virginia quarry. He and grandma had three daughters...and when they were born, promptly started saving enough for the girls to go to college. Emphazised academics all the way K-12. Result; one PhD, one CPA, one Associate degree. Not bad for that era, in WV.
DM's maternal family was pro-choice for women in every way. You want to be a SAHM ? OK. You want a family and a job ? OK too.
Yeah God bless my dear departed Mom.. she was raised a sharecropper in East Texas .. joined the Navy WW2. Made a new life for herself in SanDiego and saved for me to go to college ( yeah when it was clear I was a no go on the military route) she paid my way through my first degree.
I now have two masters degrees.
😱
Sadly they are so warped from the years of abuse, they have convinced themself that everyone else should suffer, too.
Regarding her performance issues and the pain involved, I have some experience with that. There was an incident where I was injured during average, perfectly normal intercourse and I was close to bleeding out by the time the paramedics arrived. I required a blood transfusion and surgery to repair the tear inside. This traumatized me, but what was worse was that my boyfriend, who watched as I bled out, pressured me to have intercourse with him before the time the doctor told me it would be safe to. She is pretty nonchalant regarding the idea of intercourse no matter your desire. This kind of thing, I would think, would be more likely to happen when she isn’t into it than when she is ready to go. Women have been raped to death as well. Sex is dangerous all in its own for women, most people don’t know this and it isn’t discussed during whatever sex ed is available. She should be careful with the pain she experiences in the bedroom, it could cost her.
Not only that, but the idea that she’s not losing a finger or suffering like the martyrs in other countries isn’t a winning argument for this lifestyle. Everyone’s tolerance for pain is different and I would bet she would be surprised how comparable her pain is to the tortures they commit elsewhere. We’re just figuring out that normal period cramps are similar to heart attacks and even the pain of childbirth. I have had pain during intercourse also, my hubs is tuned into me enough to stop when I say and understanding enough to be considerate of these things, even any time I recall my accident (it wasn’t him who did it and he understood when I told him about it, I am really lucky to have him because he’s not only someone I still feel butterflies over but works at the relationship as much as I do, sometimes more). Much of what makes torture torture is the knowing it’s going to hurt and still having to experience it. It doesn’t have to be the worst pain in the world, but it lasts for a while and it happens over and over and over. Torture Olympics is not a good thing to do.
IDK, what I’m saying is she is downplaying her pain as a way to gaslight herself into believing it’s not so bad. You don’t have to live like that, and I don’t understand wanting to.
That boyfriend sounds like a typical MCP asshole. He reminds me of one guy a friend of mine was dating years ago. He was extremely dismissive of any and all female pain, because In his words, "women are born whiners and they always exaggerate/lie about having headaches, having cramps, not feeling well. It's all in their heads. What they all need is a good swift kick in the ass, then they can complain."
Sounds like a man in dire need of a steel-toed boot to the balls.
No argument from me.
I hope you poisoned him on the way out.
I'm not in that marriage, but I'd like to file for divorce.
As I read this, I think that could have been me. There was a time in my life where I believed all of that. Marriage was a commitment, obedience to God, not about one’s own choice and the idea of any kind of pleasure was in knowing you were serving God by serving, submitting, and obeying your husband. Thankfully there was always a little thread in me that resisted and then as life evolved, so did my mindset. In some ways it feels like a lifetime ago. I have friends that have also come out of the same mindset but I also have some family that believe this (perpetuate it) and live it through and through. This is result of patriarchal power that uses religion to uphold it. The craziest part to me is that it’s not even a true reflection of the tenants their religion is based off of.
But it's very convenient for the men that wrote the Bible who get a unpaid maid, sex object, and baby producer who can't leave but it's ok to beat her if she's not obedient. As a incentive you get the title of Wife and some status instead of just a slave.
Alright, story time.
My friend was running a craft booth at her local farmer’s market two summers ago. Her booth had some vintage items, some of her hand made jewelry, some politically inspired clothing (mostly defending abortion access) and some of my pottery. For some reason the JWs decided to park their stand right across from her booth. Now, the JWs were not part of the farmer’s market, they didn’t pay booth fees like the other vendors, they just did their typical weekly stand inside the farmer’s market area. But every week they would setup right across from my friend, she even moved to different parts of the market to get away from them, and there they’d be, right across from her. No big deal, right? Wrong. They stood across from her booth glaring at her all day. They ignored everyone else. Well, the two men standing with the brochure rack were glaring at her. Other members, little old women mostly, would walk into her booth and engage her in conversation, to the point where customers were having a difficult time making purchases, and chastise her for supporting abortion access.
One of these women told her all about her life of being raped, becoming pregnant, marrying her attacker and raising his babies, never getting to do what she dreamed of doing and see how it all worked out for her. My friend’s response was to ask her if she truly wanted that life for her granddaughters? And honestly, it doesn’t seem like it worked out all that well for her. Not to me anyway. Sure she’s lived to be however old she is and is dressed and fed, but she expressed how miserable she really was in much of the conversation, and she never had the opportunity to even try to pursue her dreams. After this particular conversation, my friend said the ladies stopped going into her booth for the rest of the summer, but the men were still across from her trying to intimidate her.
These women were told that this was just how it’s supposed to be, never thought they could have done any different, or had anything else in life. Anderson knows she could do anything and still chose this life, but worse, tells everyone else this is the only way. She’s miserable, we all know it. She just thinks the only way to make it worthwhile is to ensure everyone else is miserable too. To make it so that there is no other way, otherwise she has to face the fact that she did this to herself. Even with the professional help from nannies and maids, she hated being the SAHM she says every woman should be. But she thought actually working was too much work. Whatever. Let her boil in her misery and beef tallow. I’m living my best life. And I’m giving my daughter the options to live her best life as well.
Working is too much work? Then I guess her choice of wallowing in misery makes perfect sense for her life of leisure.
Looking at her messed up existence just makes me all the happer that I'm not a Christian sharing her delusions.
Holy fuck, yes!
Me too.
They live in a make-believe world where belief is everything. They believe a cherry-picked version of their bible. They believe in some reward/ punishment in the spirit world: heaven - for them, hell for everyone else. Women are supposed to be submissive and silent. Men make all the decisions. Suffering is good. Women are only supposed to be wives and mothers, and pop out as many babies as possible - and from what I read, beat the tar out of the little darlings to turn them into "disciplined adults". Sounds like Gilead to me - self-imposed, but Gilead nonetheless.
Actually the Bible was put together in 325 AD during the Council of Nicaea under a Roman Emperor and it emphasized obedience to those in authority as God's plan also. They were in authority because of God so if you disobeyed not only could you be executed but you would burn for eternity in hellfire. Very convenient for those people in power and slaves and wives could expect a reward after they died. Convenient also for bumping off useless people as you were doing them a favor as God would take care of rewards and punishment while you were relieved of them.
Actually the bible canon was decided about a half-century later. At Nicea they decreed Jesus God.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
Yeah voting on the divinity of Jesus, always struck me as acknowledging the con.
I read a book when I was in my 20s called A Road Less Traveled by Dr. Scott Peck one thing really stuck out in my head and that was in reference to a relationship, the stronger your base camp, the higher you can each climb your mountains. Sadly this woman will never approach that. I’ve been married for 25 years to the love of my life, still the love of my life, both of us are still growing. I actually got that picket fence that Hollywood talks about!
The other principal I found useful in that book… Life’s a bitch, once you accept that, it ceases to be. You see a family in New Guinea living in a tree eating grubs laughing and enjoying life…
She complains that Christians are abused around the world when the reality is Christians are abusing people around the world, they simply like playing the victim to cover who they really are.
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
Quoting verbatim = persecution.
Can I quote you on that?
Sure, I can handle a little persecution.