91 Comments
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NOGODZ20's avatar
3hEdited

As far as I'm concerned, ANY elected official who abandons the US Constitution they swore an oath to support and defend should be removed from office and never again be allowed to hold power in any form.

Let them all be ministers in a fading religion.

Old Man Shadow's avatar

Prison. They can be ministers in prison for life.

oraxx's avatar

The idea a particular brand of Christianity could be imposed on a country as large and diverse as the United States with a happy ending, is about as dangerously stupid as thinking gets. If the preachers ever acquired the power they seem to think is their due, they would begin killing one another over doctrinal errors almost immediately. Those who see Christianity as the solution to all this country’s problems, evidently know nothing of the history of Christianity.

E.A. Blair's avatar

I have often said that we are fortunate that the leaders of the various Christian cults hate each other more than they hate us. If they ever decided to settle their diferences and concentrate their hatred on the nonbelievers, we'd be in real trouble. If course it wouldn't take long before they started sniping at each other again. More Christians have been tortured and killed in the name of religon by other Christians than by all other religious groups combined.

oraxx's avatar

Millions perished in the Thirty Years War attempting to determine who was, or was not, a TRUE Christian. It was the worst war in European history prior to WWI, which was also fought primarily between predominantly Christian countries.

User's avatar
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3h
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John Smith's avatar

I would like to let them fight it out, unfortunately the rest of us becomes collateral damage!

Troublesh00ter's avatar

My thought PRECISELY.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

How about we let them fight AFTER the Nat-C nutcases have been disempowered and the country has been returned to at least some degree of sanity?

Letting them fight as things are now I suspect would be nothing short of disastrous.

Straw's avatar

No, that will totally destroy USA and kill a lot of innocent people, not only the mad and evil ones.

Joe King's avatar
3hEdited

Christian Nationalism captured the Republican party almost half a century ago. When Reagan began the process of fusing fundamentalist Christianity with the Southern Strategy, that was the beginning of the end for the pre-fascist GOP. It got a big boost from Bush Jr's "war on terror" nonsense. All of this set the stage for Trump, on openly racist authoritarian dictator wannabe with the MAGA faithful refuse to accept that he is any of those things. After all, they have been conditioned for generations to believe that their leader, whoever he is, is the only thing standing between them and literal hell. They have been conditioned for generations to believe that their party is always correct, and anyone disagreeing is an enemy. Why else would they be so rabidly pro-gun while at the same time demand that protesters against their agenda should be shot and killed if they are exercising that same right? They have been conducting for generations to believe that any government not run by them is by definition tyrannical any government run by them is not, regardless of what the data show.

Of course they are far more willing to believe that violence is necessary. They already think they are in a war against everyone who is different.

Straw's avatar

I don't disagree, I just know I'm gonna get nightmare tonight.

John Smith's avatar

Spot on, I also said something along those lines as well!

Troublesh00ter's avatar

"Christian Nationalism has captured the Republican Party." Gee, has it really? I hadn't noticed. [facepalm!]

No, this isn't news, and it's been going on for a while. Indeed, it started long before Ronnie Raygun all but invited the Christian Coalition to fraternize with the GOP, back in the early 1980s. It's real origins may be traced back to the reaction to Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal of the 1930s, and the perceived threats to capitalism that too many corporate executives thought they saw in those programs. I know I cite it often, but Kevin Kruse's One Nation Under God: How Corporate America Invented Christian America is a powerful record of just how the first breaches between State and Church were engineered.

And now, over 70 years later, here we are: a party in power, claiming righteous Christian rectitude and the right to rule as they choose, while either disregarding or attempting to dismantle a governmental model that has worked well if imperfectly for the past two-and-a-half centuries. Yeah, that frightens me, and I suspect many of the regular gang here are equally disturbed. Doesn't stop us from working against it, though.

We have to ... because there is entirely too much to lose here.

Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them...

There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'"

— Barry Goldwater

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Not just yes, but HELL, YES. Goldwater had them dead to rights ... and of course, no one listened.

oraxx's avatar

Reagan, or more likely his handlers, invited in the preachers with promises he never kept or intended to. What began as a ploy to win an election back fired badly when the preachers hung around to largely co-opt the Republican party. We deal with that problem to this day.

Frisco Wolf's avatar

"Of course we need religion, it's what keeps the poor from killing the rich."

-- Napoleon Bonaparte

Old Man Shadow's avatar

Well, if you take the gospels as any sort of accurate record of Jesus of Nazareth, then he said that his kingdom was not of this world.

He told his disciples not to fight and use violence.

Christians, he said, were to be known for their love.

If a servant of the Empire demanded a Christian carry his pack a mile, the Christian was to shame him by carrying it two miles.

A Christian, he said, was to pray for his enemies and to reconcile with those he had harmed before he went to worship god.

Blessed are the ones who make peace. Blessed are the meek. Blessed are the poor. Cursed are the rich. Cursed are the well fed now. Cursed are those who laugh now.

Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

B b b b but that's woke.

John Smith's avatar

The Republicans have embraced a Christian fascist kleptocracy/theocracy is not surprising considering a huge swath of Americans (white, Christian, conservative)want a strongman to protect what they (Christians) perceive is the loss of their power.

The Christians are having difficulty adjusting to the changing demographics, economics, and social norms. The Christians think by turning it into a fascist kleptocracy/ theocracy that the country will return to a “Golden Ages” (which never existed) that they think had passed them by!

Troublesh00ter's avatar

Further Thought:

𝑀𝑎𝑦𝑏𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑑𝑜 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑚𝑢𝑐ℎ 𝑐𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑢𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑅𝑒𝑝𝑢𝑏𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑃𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑦. 𝑌𝑜𝑢 𝑠ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑. 𝐶𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑠 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑎𝑙𝑤𝑎𝑦𝑠 𝑏𝑒 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑢𝑠. 𝐼𝑓 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑐𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑤𝑖𝑛 𝑑𝑒𝑚𝑜𝑐𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦, 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑎𝑏𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑜𝑛 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑠𝑚. 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑟𝑒𝑗𝑒𝑐𝑡 𝑑𝑒𝑚𝑜𝑐𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑦. 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑏𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑜𝑓 𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑠𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑒𝑡𝑦 𝑑𝑒𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑠 𝑜𝑛 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑠’ 𝑎𝑏𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑡𝑜 𝑓𝑖𝑛𝑑 𝑎 𝑤𝑎𝑦 𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑤𝑎𝑟𝑑 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑇𝑟𝑢𝑚𝑝 𝑑𝑒𝑎𝑑 𝑒𝑛𝑑, 𝑡𝑜𝑤𝑎𝑟𝑑 𝑎 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑠𝑚 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑜𝑛𝑙𝑦 𝑤𝑖𝑛 𝑒𝑙𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑔𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑛 𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑦, 𝑎 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑠𝑚 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑐𝑢𝑙𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 𝑚𝑜𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑛, 𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑜𝑚𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 𝑖𝑛𝑐𝑙𝑢𝑠𝑖𝑣𝑒, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑒𝑛𝑣𝑖𝑟𝑜𝑛𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑒, 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑢𝑝ℎ𝑜𝑙𝑑𝑠 𝑚𝑎𝑟𝑘𝑒𝑡𝑠 𝑎𝑡 ℎ𝑜𝑚𝑒 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑈.𝑆. 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑠ℎ𝑖𝑝 𝑖𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦.

-- David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic

And isn't that what the current GOP has done? Abandon democracy for autocracy, a unary Executive branch, and embracing Christian Nationalism as a means to secure power for themselves? Whether genuine conservatism has been pushed aside or perhaps adopted these aberrations as a means to an end, I'm not sure it matters. The current reality is that we have one party which gives every indication that they care less for democracy or serving the people than they care about serving themselves and dining on POWER, while the other major party attempts to oppose them in fits and starts.

It can't go on like this, not and have a United States like anything I've known it to be.

Boreal's avatar

"Support for Christian nationalism is positively associated with lower education levels and older age."

NOGODZ20's avatar

I'm old, but I had 3 years of junior college. :)

Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

It took that long for you to pass a class? ;)

Troublesh00ter's avatar

I would also think a disconnection from a wider, more diverse society and sources of information and news media. Living in a bubble. AAACK, that would drive me NUTZ!

Bensnewlogin's avatar

I have been saying literally for 20 years that the goal of politicized and Weaponized— what normal people would call conservative or reactionary religion— is power, money, religious Dominion. And in the age of Trump, revenge on every uppity woman, gay person, non-white person, non-Christian, not male person for being uppity.

My kingdom is not of this world, said Jesus. We’re taking over, say the Nat-C’s. Judge not less ye be judged, says Jesus. There are many unlisted exceptions to that rule in the Bible, says the Nat-C’s. You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free, says Jesus. What is the truth, said jesting Pilate, and would not stay for an answer.

From my essay on the insurrection: “ As a Catholic acquaintance of mine wrote, the religious reich uses the unborn as a shield to protect themselves from any criticism or blowback for everything else they want to do. He wrote: “Because instead of defending the unborn, they have devoted their time and energy to defending every lie, cruelty, sadistic act, racist remark, misogynist bullying, sexual assault, kidnapping, call for violence, and criminal act he has committed. They voted for him this time, not because those things were bugs, but because they were features. If they had really only supported the prolife stuff and not all the other filth. they would have spoken against the other filth. They never did. They either remained silent or, as was far more often the case, they passionately supported it.”

And…

‘ But therein lies the answer as to how we got to this point. Not to put too fine a point on it, but nearly half the this nation is ethically crippled, reality challenged, intellectually deranged, educationally debased, empathetically destitute, morally lazy at best and morally bankrupt at worst. No nation has ever survived this, nor can it, unless the other half stays vigilant and active.

I don’t have an answer to this. This is a moral, intellectual, and spiritual cancer deep within the body politic of this country

Die Anyway's avatar

Or as I frequently put it ---

People are no damn good!

Bensnewlogin's avatar

I think most people are pretty decent. The more tribal they get, the worse they become.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

I believe you've got something there...

Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Tribalism is part and parcel of the conservative brain.

Bensnewlogin's avatar

Sorry for the typo that I missed. Suggesting pilot should have read “said jesting Pilate.”

I blame it on Jesus.

Bensnewlogin's avatar

OMG, I screwedup TWICE.

I blame it on the drugs. Or maybe Jesus.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

[TS hands Ben a copy of Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing and giggles!]

Bensnewlogin's avatar

I’m still blaming Jesus.

Troublesh00ter's avatar

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Troublesh00ter's avatar

It's a cancer, all right, mutating and metastasizing ... and the surgery needed to excise said aberration will not be easy or without pain.

We've let it go on too long as it is.

Thomas Warren's avatar

Need to stop the double speak. It’s christofascism. The Nazis, the confederacy, Russia and USA Today are all christofascism (not Christian nationalists…that tones down that it’s a death cult). Then we got judeofascist Israel and islamofascist Iran. Remember, the OG psychopath is Yahweh and the Bible will forever be the greatest guidebook on fascism ever written. Fascism is always a death cult bc it’s the expression of the psychopathology of the psychopath leaders. All three Abrahamic fascist death cults must be eliminated or the world will never have a chance.

Todd Vickers's avatar

It's nihilism. It's nihilism. It's nihilism.

The name "Christian Nationalists" conceals something in the same way that "National Socialists" concealed something behind what seemed familiar. Both ideologies reject, or simply refuse to acknowledge, what exists that contradicts their beliefs.

Consider facts like the medical certainty that there has never been a viable ectopic pregnancy. Doctors know precisely why it can never be viable, yet some still delay or deny a D&C for women diagnosed with one. This is a rejection of established medical knowledge and experience.

That is one undeniable example, but there are many others that are less obvious: the proven safety of vaccines, the actual reasons women choose divorce, the economic reality that tariffs are taxes, and of course what Jesus himself said was required to end up on his right side rather than his left. (Matthew 25:31-46)

If you don't believe in what exists, that is nihilism, regardless of whatever else you claim to believe.

When people don't believe in what exists, what won't they do?

Die Anyway's avatar

> "30% of “adherents” say violence may be justified to “save our country” "

Well, I may just have to agree with them on this point. Although, I suspect that our ideas of what it means to "save our country" are diametrically opposed.

Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

What they mean is destroy the country.

NOGODZ20's avatar

The Sidney Opera House is playing the Jovian alignment music from "2001: A Space Odyssey" (the "Kyrie" from Gyorgy Ligeti's "Requiem").

Nick Tsambassis's avatar

This premise is not news; Christian nationalism captured the Republican Party in 1980 when Ronald Reagan was elected, and the GOP hasn't looked back ever since.

Richard S. Russell's avatar

As before, I recommend reframing that movement as Nationalist Christianity, because it lends itself so nicely to the short form Nat-Cs.

NOGODZ20's avatar

NatCs don't worship an imaginary being. They suck the ass of an all-too-real "golden" idol.

They shit all over not only the secular law of the land but their own 2nd Commandment as well.