To add some color to the statistics, a few years ago, I was speaking with a cab driver in Guatemala who confirmed that no one goes to the Catholic Church anymore because "they don't care about us". If a comment like that doesn't wake you up, nothing will.
Whew! Now THAT is one hell of a statement! I've said many times that the RCC cares more about their doctrine and dogma than they do about PEOPLE, and your cabbie's statement relates to that pretty strongly.
The MAGAts worship Donald Trump. Therefore, the moral center of the Trumpetts is Donald Trump. Donald Trump, who said: "The only thing stopping me is my own morality". Since he has none, neither do any of his followers.
"Morality" is whatever feckless leader says. We no longer have laws. We have cadet bonespurs declaring morality. Religious fundies taught their followeers well. So well they now follow trumpy
From the opening monologue, Trump vs. God, in Dictator for a Day: A MAGA Musical for the Masses, starring the world's best Trump impersonator and coming soon to streaming and available now to rent at DictatorForADayShow.com:
"If I were to run for God, which is the only position bigger than President, I would probably win... if the angels don’t work for Crooked Hillary. And then I could pardon myself as God, except I don’t really have anything that needs to be forgiven. Believe me."
A conservative "Christian" who supports tRump is, essentially, a person who worships tRump and believes that Jesus had some "pretty good ideas." My own estrangement from Christianity and Mormonism has only been reaffirmed and strengthened by religious folks who drool over tRump.
Trumpanzees are manipulating their own churches to align more with his lack of morality, there have been clergy who report the congregations balk at Jesus’ teachings, claiming they’re weak and too woke. They complain when the sermon focuses on loving your neighbor and the beatitudes, and pressure the preachers to sermonize bigotry more often.
Yes, they do worship Trump and they don’t like the empathetic church, they really don’t think Jesus had pretty good ideas, they want Jesus to have the same hatreds and vitriol as they do. They’ve crafted their Jesus into replicants of themselves.
I'd be interested to know why you say that, Larry. Most of the historians I've seen agree there is a lot of evidence he was a real person.
If you want to get into all the ways the Church has gone wrong, the list is long and tragic. I think CSN put it well, "too many people have lied / died in the name of Christ for anyone to heed the call".
The case for a mythical Jesus is made very well by Richard Carrier in his book, On The Historicity of Jesus. He uses Bayes' Theorem to examine the bible and its statements to evaluate its veracity regarding whether Jesus is historical or more legendary / mythical ... or even manufactured.
It is not an easy read, but it is exceptionally thorough, as well as having been peer reviewed.
Edit: Carrier has published updates on his work here:
Interesting stuff! Thanks for the reference! My quick review of that book touts what you said - the first peer reviewed book of this type, which is so important to get buy-in from trained historians. Having only read that much, I'm inclined to stay even with the Ehrmans and other skeptics and agnostics who acknowledge at least that much - he was a real person. What one does next with that is all over the map.
To Larry's comment that none of his ideas were original, I think if you take the Gospels at face value, Jesus said he only had one new commandment - "love one another as I have loved you."
"they really don’t think Jesus had pretty good ideas." is what was said. "They" referring to those congregations that think Jesus' teachings were weak and woke.
The Catholic Church has always promised far more than it delivered. I've maintained for a long time that organized religion is going to have a hard time surviving the internet with its influence intact. I suspect that has lot to do with the decline in Latin America. People from all across the free thought spectrum know, often for the first time, they are not as alone as they once thought.
I think the Church lost lots of us in 2008, when "conservative" Bishops like Strickland and Burke were sending the message that "voting for a Democrat (Obama...) was mortal sin." The single issue of abortion became the magic political tool to equate Catholicism with the Republican party.
I and many others baljed at the obvious bulkshit if being told how to vote; and to support the political party that gave us the immoral invasion of Iraq, torture as a means of interrogation, etc.
Since he would allow abortion to be legal, even though he would probably never personally advocate for one, he is pure evil.
Now Trump, who has more than likely paid for at least one abortion, panders to those who want to make it a criminal act, is a moral paragon because he is not catholic.
Most kkkatliks are "culture" kkkatliks. They say they are, but seldom go to church and pay zero attention to the pope. The hard-liners are the ones going to church and listenng topopie guy. These old people are usually older, and as they age, they re less able to get out.
There is a lot of that hypocrisy to be found in all branches of Christianity. I don't worry about the hypocrites. It's the true believers who scare the crap out of me.
I was visiting New Orleans in October 2016 (the month beforeTrump got elected1st time). Was listening to a catholic radio station, where the commentator was downing pope Francis because Francis opposed Trump. He called Francis a "so-called pope". Bear in mind, in a catholic radio station, in a catholic radio program! Clearly the top catholic Leadershit in the US didn't care for Francis.
The grandma brigade is about gone. Used to be for a Baptist funeral of one their own, the little old ladies cooked a potluck that would feed an army for the grieving family. When my mother died, we got two sandwich plates. (We won't even go into how much I wanted to scream at the preacher during the service. I'm planning a much different memorial gathering. Think wake with burgers and less alcohol. (At least, I hope it will be less, the bar is only serving two free cocktails per adult))
That’d be a good reason for we old blokes to attend every so often. You’d need to learn a bit of the local lingo if you wanted to get to holding hand stage.
Did they have drive-in movie theatres operating when you were there ?
It would be interesting to see a comparison of these numbers to the economic stability of the countries south of the US. I would bet that there is a strong correlation between economic stability and declining religiosity. Desperate people cling to desperate ideas.
"Desperate people cling to desperate ideas." Clearly. Also, SCARED people do much the same thing, whether it's scared of hell, scared of eternal punishment, scared of the priest or their fellow parishioners. This is what the Catholic Church fosters and encourages.
But their hold appears to be SLIPPING ... and about time.
I just don't understand why people would be disgusted with an organization that enabled the systematic abuse and rape of children for decades (or centuries), covered it up, and has a long history of colonialism and harming natives, eradicating entire languages and cultures and faiths with god knows how many mass graveyards filled with the bodies of its victims just under foot?
I’m not sure I would agree with the conclusions of this article, although I would have to admit that it would not be because I’ve done my own study and came up with something different.
Brazil is a major reason. When I first went there nearly 30 years ago, it was not uncommon to see a Catholic Church with a small chapel on it. The chapel was Candomble, which is basically native African, and filled with magic, gods, and spirits.* But most important were the gods, the orixa. For example, several times I saw a candomble Chapel for the orixa Iemanja, a sea goddess, on the grounds of a church dedicated to Mary, Star of the Sea. (Stella Maris).
And we have to remember that Bozonaro was himself a fundamentalist, not a Catholic, and he was supported by fundamentalists/protestants.
I would suspect that a lot of people are leaving religion, but I also suspect that a lot of them re just leaving Catholicism for fundamentalist evangelicalism. And they don’t want to say so in as many words. And that may simply be a cultural thing.
In Argentina, there is still the amusement park known as Tierra Santa**. Basically, it’s all biblically themed. It lacks rides, but it has plenty of religion. It has to be seen to be believed, but they see it every day, so they may well believe it. And there’s something for everyone. Jesus rising out of a volcano to the hallelujah chorus, if I remember. You can get your picture taken with the giant statue of Jesus with a glowing red Sacred Heart. You can see Jesus crucified, although somebody had to paint in a lot of underarm hair. The amount of Kitsch both for viewing and for sale was rather amazing. It’s been 13 years since I was there, but it was well attended.
As they said, my knowledge is not based upon statistics and research, but simply by being there. I suspect that the Catholic void is getting filled by a protestant void.
* yes, yes, I know. But the point is DIFFERENT magic, gods, and spirits.
** keep in mind that Argentina is a country where many people consider Eva Peron, the wife of a fascist, populist dictator, and not much better than he was,to be a saint. She’s been dead for 70 years, and she is still everywhere.
You want to take a look at Hemant's third chart. Yes Protestantism is rising, but nowhere near as fast as Catholicism is falling.
So if it's the case that Catholics are converting to fundamentalist or evangelical Protestantism, then either only a small fraction of Catholics are doing that, or if a large chunk of them are doing that then the evangelicals are losing their members to none-ship almost as fast as they gain them from Catholicism.
I don’t disagree with your analysis. But I suspect that the questions that are being asked are not entirely honest, and the answers they’re getting our likewise not entirely honest. But I can’t prove it. It’s merely speculation on my part based upon my observations on multiple trips to South America.
The expected skew in these surveys tends to be that they under-report none-type behavior, because some religious people don't like to admit (even to themselves) that they don't donate, don't go to church, or don't pray as often as a religious person should.
I've never heard anyone claim these surveys are under-reporting Protestants. What reason leads to you believe church-going Protestants are self-reporting as "none" on PEW surveys?
It’s just instinct, nothing more dangerous than that. I’ve read articles about increasing fundamentalist/Pentecostal/evngelical inroads into the catholic numbers in South America, and there were a number of articles on Bozonaro being both a fundamentalist with a great deal of support from newly converted Catholics. I’m quite willing to be wrong about it, but I tend to read things for more of a social psychological standpoint then mathematical, even though I have degrees in both. So, as they say, it’s mostly just instinct.
Religion has dominated South America, and continues to do so as far as I can tell. It would seem very odd to me that people were just suddenly giving up on religion in South America. But there might be some shame associated with becoming a protestant and leaving the holy mother church to do so.
Again, it’s just instinct. And I’m more than willing to be wrong. But I’ve been to South America maybe eight times, mexico and costa rica about a dozen times, and religion seems to be very strong still.
Agree Bensnewlogin. I worry that the abandonment of traditional religion by the young does not necessarily mean a conversion to a thoughtful alternative but rather minds buffeted by the attention-suck of social media. When I abandoned the charismatic catholicism of my teenage years for agnosticism and later atheism it was well thought out by reading Bertrand Russell et. al. I worry that the youth of today abandon religion out of distraction. I think they are unstable particles in a way and I am not sure how they will sort out once finally "observed."
I have to agree with you here. Nobody anticipated the impact of the soul sucking void of meaningless affirmation known as the Internet. Distracted by the Internet was not exactly the option I had considered, but it makes sense to me.
Actor/director/singer/dancer/choreographer Gene Kelly was a devout Catholic before he traveled to Mexico in 1939 and witnessed the poverty in that Catholic country. He became an agnotic after that.
I was devout. Then nuns said my friends were going to hell for attending the church acrioss the street. Then the tv bishop called e a pervert cuz I was stuck on Chuck and not Pamela.
I have visited both Peru and Mexico City/Oaxaca and this decline was very apparent among the young people I met. Also, what a stark difference from the USA in terms of honoring traditions and rituals from indigenous communities despite all they have been through. It’s infuriating and also why it’s hard for me to tolerate most Catholics here in states that claim their version of Christianity is less harmful than others. Speaking of, I attended a wake yesterday where a Catholic priest kept repeating that we were all sinners and that if you weren’t a Catholic, you were going straight to hell. Good thing I didn’t know this person well (I was support), because if I were grieving I would have made a scene or punched him in the face.
Every Catholic funeral I have attended, the priest at some point read the line, "He who believes in me will never die". And I keep having the thought, "Well, I guess [recently deceased] didn't believe then, 'cause he's/she's dead."
The Baptist version was comforting to my family at my mother's funeral, which is the only reason I didn't start screaming at the preacher who tried to talk about a woman who had been a member of his congregation for 20 years, that he had visited in hospice and knew not a damn thing about her that my uncle didn't tell him. And yes 6 years later, I'm still angry.
I've posted this before, but maybe you haven't seen it. A friend of mine travelled all the way to Britain for his mother's funeral – the priest said that there would be no speeches. Because this wasn't a funeral it was a mass for her soul. Granddaughters got up and made speeches anyway. Fuck him.
I knew Trump was stupid by looking at him, now I know for SURE that Trump IS a fucking IDIOT that shouldn’t be out in public without supervision from an adult. Trump needs a fucking sign that says: “I AM A GODDAM FUCKING IDIOT, PLEASE DON’T LET ME HURT MYSELF ON SHARP AND POINTED OBJECTS!”
My version on a sign, yours on a t-shirt that he must wear. That way both messages are clearly stated! 🤨 Also make everyone in that administration have the same sign and t-shirt combo, in fact every fucking brain dead MAGA should do the same !
I recall reading somewhere,maybe 7-8yrs ago about the Philippines, a once very catholic country. A survey said now that folk were leaving the church, poverty statistics were better - cos now former catholics could practice birth control, they had fewer children and thus more money to feed the 2 they may choose to have, instead of umpteen as previously. Would be great if that becomes true of Latin American countries too.
Nuns, priests and bitchups tught me in1950s tht the rcc was a cult of hate. They hated me as a queer. They hated people fro other religions.Only men were prests. Women cleaned the church.
fulton J sheen went on tv, clling me a pertered disordered queer who deserved only a painful eath and then eternity in hell. It was paul that taught them to hate sex totally.. Marriage was only for those who could not control their passion. In the early chuirch kkkatliks were castrating themselves so much they threatened the future of the church.
To add some color to the statistics, a few years ago, I was speaking with a cab driver in Guatemala who confirmed that no one goes to the Catholic Church anymore because "they don't care about us". If a comment like that doesn't wake you up, nothing will.
Whew! Now THAT is one hell of a statement! I've said many times that the RCC cares more about their doctrine and dogma than they do about PEOPLE, and your cabbie's statement relates to that pretty strongly.
Thanks for the input!
The MAGAts worship Donald Trump. Therefore, the moral center of the Trumpetts is Donald Trump. Donald Trump, who said: "The only thing stopping me is my own morality". Since he has none, neither do any of his followers.
"Morality" is whatever feckless leader says. We no longer have laws. We have cadet bonespurs declaring morality. Religious fundies taught their followeers well. So well they now follow trumpy
From the opening monologue, Trump vs. God, in Dictator for a Day: A MAGA Musical for the Masses, starring the world's best Trump impersonator and coming soon to streaming and available now to rent at DictatorForADayShow.com:
"If I were to run for God, which is the only position bigger than President, I would probably win... if the angels don’t work for Crooked Hillary. And then I could pardon myself as God, except I don’t really have anything that needs to be forgiven. Believe me."
Nothing that still supports Dotard should be allowed to survive the purge.
A conservative "Christian" who supports tRump is, essentially, a person who worships tRump and believes that Jesus had some "pretty good ideas." My own estrangement from Christianity and Mormonism has only been reaffirmed and strengthened by religious folks who drool over tRump.
Trumpanzees are manipulating their own churches to align more with his lack of morality, there have been clergy who report the congregations balk at Jesus’ teachings, claiming they’re weak and too woke. They complain when the sermon focuses on loving your neighbor and the beatitudes, and pressure the preachers to sermonize bigotry more often.
Yes, they do worship Trump and they don’t like the empathetic church, they really don’t think Jesus had pretty good ideas, they want Jesus to have the same hatreds and vitriol as they do. They’ve crafted their Jesus into replicants of themselves.
https://brucegerencser.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/jesus-in-the-mirror.jpg
It is astonishing how so many xians treat DT/TYG as he is the second coming of JFC.
astonishing is one word for it. Appalling is another.
Are you saying Jesus did not have "pretty good ideas"?
That's not what was said, but I'll say it. For starters, Jesus is/was a fictional character. For a finisher, none of his supposed ideas were original.
I'd be interested to know why you say that, Larry. Most of the historians I've seen agree there is a lot of evidence he was a real person.
If you want to get into all the ways the Church has gone wrong, the list is long and tragic. I think CSN put it well, "too many people have lied / died in the name of Christ for anyone to heed the call".
Maybe he was a real person, but the stories about him are fiction.
The case for a mythical Jesus is made very well by Richard Carrier in his book, On The Historicity of Jesus. He uses Bayes' Theorem to examine the bible and its statements to evaluate its veracity regarding whether Jesus is historical or more legendary / mythical ... or even manufactured.
It is not an easy read, but it is exceptionally thorough, as well as having been peer reviewed.
Edit: Carrier has published updates on his work here:
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/24341
Interesting stuff! Thanks for the reference! My quick review of that book touts what you said - the first peer reviewed book of this type, which is so important to get buy-in from trained historians. Having only read that much, I'm inclined to stay even with the Ehrmans and other skeptics and agnostics who acknowledge at least that much - he was a real person. What one does next with that is all over the map.
To Larry's comment that none of his ideas were original, I think if you take the Gospels at face value, Jesus said he only had one new commandment - "love one another as I have loved you."
"they really don’t think Jesus had pretty good ideas." is what was said. "They" referring to those congregations that think Jesus' teachings were weak and woke.
My reply was to Bonnie, but I agree with you and Val that many/most seem to have left Jesus behind as weak and woke.
He had concepts of ideas.
The Catholic Church has always promised far more than it delivered. I've maintained for a long time that organized religion is going to have a hard time surviving the internet with its influence intact. I suspect that has lot to do with the decline in Latin America. People from all across the free thought spectrum know, often for the first time, they are not as alone as they once thought.
I think the Church lost lots of us in 2008, when "conservative" Bishops like Strickland and Burke were sending the message that "voting for a Democrat (Obama...) was mortal sin." The single issue of abortion became the magic political tool to equate Catholicism with the Republican party.
I and many others baljed at the obvious bulkshit if being told how to vote; and to support the political party that gave us the immoral invasion of Iraq, torture as a means of interrogation, etc.
What did kkkonservative Catholics make of Biden, himself a truly devout Catholic? Did they have to twist themselves into pretzels to demonize him?
“conservatism” tends to be inversely related to intelligence…
Since he would allow abortion to be legal, even though he would probably never personally advocate for one, he is pure evil.
Now Trump, who has more than likely paid for at least one abortion, panders to those who want to make it a criminal act, is a moral paragon because he is not catholic.
I remember how much guff Francis got, just for saying "look, abortion and gay people aren't the only moral issues in the world."
Most kkkatliks are "culture" kkkatliks. They say they are, but seldom go to church and pay zero attention to the pope. The hard-liners are the ones going to church and listenng topopie guy. These old people are usually older, and as they age, they re less able to get out.
There is a lot of that hypocrisy to be found in all branches of Christianity. I don't worry about the hypocrites. It's the true believers who scare the crap out of me.
I was visiting New Orleans in October 2016 (the month beforeTrump got elected1st time). Was listening to a catholic radio station, where the commentator was downing pope Francis because Francis opposed Trump. He called Francis a "so-called pope". Bear in mind, in a catholic radio station, in a catholic radio program! Clearly the top catholic Leadershit in the US didn't care for Francis.
But those issues give people something to hate, and that's really what their definition of morality is all about.
When I lived in Central America in the 1980s for a year, no one seemed to attend church but old ladies.
The grandma brigade is about gone. Used to be for a Baptist funeral of one their own, the little old ladies cooked a potluck that would feed an army for the grieving family. When my mother died, we got two sandwich plates. (We won't even go into how much I wanted to scream at the preacher during the service. I'm planning a much different memorial gathering. Think wake with burgers and less alcohol. (At least, I hope it will be less, the bar is only serving two free cocktails per adult))
That’d be a good reason for we old blokes to attend every so often. You’d need to learn a bit of the local lingo if you wanted to get to holding hand stage.
Did they have drive-in movie theatres operating when you were there ?
…🦘🦘🦘
Not to my knowledge but I hardly knew anyone with a car
It would be interesting to see a comparison of these numbers to the economic stability of the countries south of the US. I would bet that there is a strong correlation between economic stability and declining religiosity. Desperate people cling to desperate ideas.
"Desperate people cling to desperate ideas." Clearly. Also, SCARED people do much the same thing, whether it's scared of hell, scared of eternal punishment, scared of the priest or their fellow parishioners. This is what the Catholic Church fosters and encourages.
But their hold appears to be SLIPPING ... and about time.
You might also say that comfortable people have too much confidence in their own strength and ability to provide for themselves.
I just don't understand why people would be disgusted with an organization that enabled the systematic abuse and rape of children for decades (or centuries), covered it up, and has a long history of colonialism and harming natives, eradicating entire languages and cultures and faiths with god knows how many mass graveyards filled with the bodies of its victims just under foot?
What could possibly be the reason?
Pope said years ago that anyone mentioning child rape would be excommunicated. Herr dictator effectively silenced every kkkatlik
I’m not sure I would agree with the conclusions of this article, although I would have to admit that it would not be because I’ve done my own study and came up with something different.
Brazil is a major reason. When I first went there nearly 30 years ago, it was not uncommon to see a Catholic Church with a small chapel on it. The chapel was Candomble, which is basically native African, and filled with magic, gods, and spirits.* But most important were the gods, the orixa. For example, several times I saw a candomble Chapel for the orixa Iemanja, a sea goddess, on the grounds of a church dedicated to Mary, Star of the Sea. (Stella Maris).
And we have to remember that Bozonaro was himself a fundamentalist, not a Catholic, and he was supported by fundamentalists/protestants.
I would suspect that a lot of people are leaving religion, but I also suspect that a lot of them re just leaving Catholicism for fundamentalist evangelicalism. And they don’t want to say so in as many words. And that may simply be a cultural thing.
In Argentina, there is still the amusement park known as Tierra Santa**. Basically, it’s all biblically themed. It lacks rides, but it has plenty of religion. It has to be seen to be believed, but they see it every day, so they may well believe it. And there’s something for everyone. Jesus rising out of a volcano to the hallelujah chorus, if I remember. You can get your picture taken with the giant statue of Jesus with a glowing red Sacred Heart. You can see Jesus crucified, although somebody had to paint in a lot of underarm hair. The amount of Kitsch both for viewing and for sale was rather amazing. It’s been 13 years since I was there, but it was well attended.
As they said, my knowledge is not based upon statistics and research, but simply by being there. I suspect that the Catholic void is getting filled by a protestant void.
* yes, yes, I know. But the point is DIFFERENT magic, gods, and spirits.
** keep in mind that Argentina is a country where many people consider Eva Peron, the wife of a fascist, populist dictator, and not much better than he was,to be a saint. She’s been dead for 70 years, and she is still everywhere.
You want to take a look at Hemant's third chart. Yes Protestantism is rising, but nowhere near as fast as Catholicism is falling.
So if it's the case that Catholics are converting to fundamentalist or evangelical Protestantism, then either only a small fraction of Catholics are doing that, or if a large chunk of them are doing that then the evangelicals are losing their members to none-ship almost as fast as they gain them from Catholicism.
I don’t disagree with your analysis. But I suspect that the questions that are being asked are not entirely honest, and the answers they’re getting our likewise not entirely honest. But I can’t prove it. It’s merely speculation on my part based upon my observations on multiple trips to South America.
The expected skew in these surveys tends to be that they under-report none-type behavior, because some religious people don't like to admit (even to themselves) that they don't donate, don't go to church, or don't pray as often as a religious person should.
I've never heard anyone claim these surveys are under-reporting Protestants. What reason leads to you believe church-going Protestants are self-reporting as "none" on PEW surveys?
See Henri Isaacson’s comments in response to mine in this thread. Also I think a cogent observation.
It’s just instinct, nothing more dangerous than that. I’ve read articles about increasing fundamentalist/Pentecostal/evngelical inroads into the catholic numbers in South America, and there were a number of articles on Bozonaro being both a fundamentalist with a great deal of support from newly converted Catholics. I’m quite willing to be wrong about it, but I tend to read things for more of a social psychological standpoint then mathematical, even though I have degrees in both. So, as they say, it’s mostly just instinct.
Religion has dominated South America, and continues to do so as far as I can tell. It would seem very odd to me that people were just suddenly giving up on religion in South America. But there might be some shame associated with becoming a protestant and leaving the holy mother church to do so.
Again, it’s just instinct. And I’m more than willing to be wrong. But I’ve been to South America maybe eight times, mexico and costa rica about a dozen times, and religion seems to be very strong still.
Agree Bensnewlogin. I worry that the abandonment of traditional religion by the young does not necessarily mean a conversion to a thoughtful alternative but rather minds buffeted by the attention-suck of social media. When I abandoned the charismatic catholicism of my teenage years for agnosticism and later atheism it was well thought out by reading Bertrand Russell et. al. I worry that the youth of today abandon religion out of distraction. I think they are unstable particles in a way and I am not sure how they will sort out once finally "observed."
I have to agree with you here. Nobody anticipated the impact of the soul sucking void of meaningless affirmation known as the Internet. Distracted by the Internet was not exactly the option I had considered, but it makes sense to me.
AND once Again, the poost is cut off, and there is no "see more" button. Great way to run a plce into the ground, stacked turds.
So, it isn’t just me.
Nope. I've been seeing the same thing for several days, now.
I clicked on your Likes (under your "Activity" in your posting history) and Ben has the “see more” button and his whole post.
Hmph! Weird! I smell a software glitch.
In substack? You must be joking, AI writes such good code. (The chimps finally retired back to the jungle)
If I switch from portrait to landscape I can see more but not all.
I read and reply using my phone so I'm generally in portrait mode.
Thanks for letting me know. I almost never use my iPad in portrait mode.
An hour later, still cannot see the entire post.
Actor/director/singer/dancer/choreographer Gene Kelly was a devout Catholic before he traveled to Mexico in 1939 and witnessed the poverty in that Catholic country. He became an agnotic after that.
I was devout. Then nuns said my friends were going to hell for attending the church acrioss the street. Then the tv bishop called e a pervert cuz I was stuck on Chuck and not Pamela.
I have visited both Peru and Mexico City/Oaxaca and this decline was very apparent among the young people I met. Also, what a stark difference from the USA in terms of honoring traditions and rituals from indigenous communities despite all they have been through. It’s infuriating and also why it’s hard for me to tolerate most Catholics here in states that claim their version of Christianity is less harmful than others. Speaking of, I attended a wake yesterday where a Catholic priest kept repeating that we were all sinners and that if you weren’t a Catholic, you were going straight to hell. Good thing I didn’t know this person well (I was support), because if I were grieving I would have made a scene or punched him in the face.
Priest was wrong. I've never sinned, and really don't know what all the fuss is about.
Self Inflicted Nonsense.
You should try it sometime, it can be a lot of fun.
Every Catholic funeral I have attended, the priest at some point read the line, "He who believes in me will never die". And I keep having the thought, "Well, I guess [recently deceased] didn't believe then, 'cause he's/she's dead."
Haha! I’m pretty sure I heard that line as well. My blood really got boiling. What sort of comfort is this I ask and to whom?
The Baptist version was comforting to my family at my mother's funeral, which is the only reason I didn't start screaming at the preacher who tried to talk about a woman who had been a member of his congregation for 20 years, that he had visited in hospice and knew not a damn thing about her that my uncle didn't tell him. And yes 6 years later, I'm still angry.
I would be too! Infuriating
I've posted this before, but maybe you haven't seen it. A friend of mine travelled all the way to Britain for his mother's funeral – the priest said that there would be no speeches. Because this wasn't a funeral it was a mass for her soul. Granddaughters got up and made speeches anyway. Fuck him.
🤣
Pinin' for the fjords.
Doesn't Mexico have a tradition of anticlericalism? Or am I thinking of somewhere else?
OT:
Fat Hitler tells German speaking population that they would all be speaking German if not for US.
🤦🤦♂️🤦♀️
I knew Trump was stupid by looking at him, now I know for SURE that Trump IS a fucking IDIOT that shouldn’t be out in public without supervision from an adult. Trump needs a fucking sign that says: “I AM A GODDAM FUCKING IDIOT, PLEASE DON’T LET ME HURT MYSELF ON SHARP AND POINTED OBJECTS!”
He needs a sign that says “DO NOT LEAVE ME UNATTENDED AROUND CHILDREN OR ANIMALS, women should beware too.”
My version on a sign, yours on a t-shirt that he must wear. That way both messages are clearly stated! 🤨 Also make everyone in that administration have the same sign and t-shirt combo, in fact every fucking brain dead MAGA should do the same !
He's incredibly STUPID!
Wow. Just...wow. How does he get through a day without doing himself in?
Deal with Loki?
I seriously doubt that Tom Hiddleston would want to have ANYTHING to do with Donnie Dumb-Ass!
No, Loki has standards, unlike Trumpy has nothing (no respect, no standards, no ethics, etc).
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What good is the 25th Amendment if you don't use it.
It looks nice on the mantle.
Didnt the Church leaders in Latin america- just as in Spain under Franco- tend to often align themselves with corrupt right wing polititians?
That has a cost in the end...
Game recognizes game.
The priest always sides with the tyrant.
I recall reading somewhere,maybe 7-8yrs ago about the Philippines, a once very catholic country. A survey said now that folk were leaving the church, poverty statistics were better - cos now former catholics could practice birth control, they had fewer children and thus more money to feed the 2 they may choose to have, instead of umpteen as previously. Would be great if that becomes true of Latin American countries too.
Nuns, priests and bitchups tught me in1950s tht the rcc was a cult of hate. They hated me as a queer. They hated people fro other religions.Only men were prests. Women cleaned the church.
fulton J sheen went on tv, clling me a pertered disordered queer who deserved only a painful eath and then eternity in hell. It was paul that taught them to hate sex totally.. Marriage was only for those who could not control their passion. In the early chuirch kkkatliks were castrating themselves so much they threatened the future of the church.
Another fine example of an catholic leader here in the US is VD Vance.
Oh yes, he is the saviour for some. Not me, I dropped gods some decades ago. Not that they noticed. How could they, being nonexistence?
As a lapsed catholic I can truthfully say, always always suspect the motivation of those late stage catholic converts...they are snakes in the grass.