I, for one, would be more than happy to see all the churches forced out of the healthcare business. It sure isn't as if hospitals with religious affiliations are known for their charity and generosity. One of my greatest fears is finding myself spending my last days in a Catholic hospital with people trying to force their religion on me.
Forcing churches out of the healthcare business would be a start. Next should be forcing business out of healthcare. Why should anyone's ability to get the care they need be dictated by either someone else's religious rules or the provider's profit motive?
Countries need a separation of church and healthcare as much as church and state. Patients can already refuse care* if they want in any secular hospital like the fundie who refused an abortion for her embryo implanted in her C-section scar.
I keep trying to find out about her, the woman who refused to end her ectopic pregnancy (in the c-section scar), but I’m not finding anything about how she’s doing. Of course, if things went south, we probably won’t hear a word about it. I hope she survived.
I don't remember if it's Hemant or someone in the comments who mentioned her (don't ask when), she somehow succeeded to give birth and gave all the credit to her god 🙄
"OT - Follow-up from Oct 28, 2024: Mother and daughter survive high-risk ectopic pregnancy.
To be fair, even if she had asked to pray for her, it was her multi-discplinary medical team that she thanked for saving the lives of both herself and her baby.
👆🎯Yes that woman certainly was an idiot, but it made great drama for her youtube channel. And it certainly was her right to be an idiot, and refuse standard of care procedures.
I was in a small rural town where a private group had come in and built a new hospital to replace a hopelessly outdated one, but WITHOUT a maternity ward. Sure it was a small community hospital, but the next closest hospitals were an hour and a half away. Pregnant women with obstetrical emergencies would still face a long drive to the nearest OB-GYN-equipped ER. If they were bleeding out, they would probably have to be Life-Flighted just to save their lives.
I wondered at the time, "why bother to build a hospital at all, if there was no maternity ward?" Sure, there was quite a bit of diabetes and heart issues and geriatric-related health concerns, but there were a lot of young families there too.
Looking back, I now suspect that they were a religious or religious-adjacent group. At one point they tried to name the place "faith hospital," but the townspeople were furious that it wasn't going to be named after their hometown, so that was scrapped (this was about 20 years ago, well before the Christian Insanity movement wanted to slap Jesus nomenclature on everything). And their board meetings often discussed their "holistic approach" to medicine, because mind and body were interconnected - can't remember the exact wording, but "holistic" came up a lot.
Either way, they didn't seem very concerned about the reproductive health of women of child-bearing age. It seems to me that if they were a regular hospital, in an ideal world, they should have been required to "follow regular practice" of providing healthcare for EVERYONE in that community, including pregnant women. If they couldn't be arsed to do that in the health care desert where they were building, they should not have been funded in the first place.
Why should we care about breeding stock is the unspoken answer. There is no filth that can't be made worse with religion. As the Doctor said "just when I thought you'd run out of ways to make me sick, there you are."
Yes, as a retired surgical assistant, I say they will never give proper medical standard of care in reproductive surgeries, thus should not be allowed to buy up hospitals in rural areas, giving prospective pregnant women who suffer an emergency, no choice in where to go.
Here a pregnant woman suffering an emergency calls 113 and get a visit from medic team. If needed they get moved to a hospital. The rural areas don't have full scales hospitals nearby. Helicopters are used every now and then. And boats, especially up north.
Private hospitals has to meet the rules to be allowed to call themselves hospitals.
Yes, it was like that in Canada, when we lived on Vancouver Island a friend was airlifted to the mainland when he had a massive heart attack. He got a pacemaker and lived a decade more.
I was recently a patient in a Catholic hospital. There was not a crucifix to be seen. Here in the bibble belt, Catholics are few and far between. No one tried to talk religion with me, even after they found out I was a retired pastor. I am on the patient advisory board of this particular hospital, and religion never comes up. It should be a private corporation. It was originally established by nuns who came from Indiana as a mission to Yellow Fever patients.
My insurance covers the catholic hospital in Madison, so that’s where I go. I’ve been in line waiting to check in (during COVID, so we were being screened and our temps taken) when they started saying prayers over the PA system. I think when I went for my hysterectomy the intake form asked if I wanted a visit by their chaplain, I said no. There are crucifixes visible in public areas and they include religious imagery on signs in their clinics around town. Mostly they don’t bother me with religious talk, but it’s still clearly a religious hospital. Thankfully I didn’t need any type of reproductive services from them, the hysterectomy notwithstanding. But my daughter might.
That sounds very much like the catholic hospital where I had a hip relacement several years ago. When I checked in, I told them I was an atheist and I didn't want any "ministry" visits, period. None happened. About ten years before, I had had my first hip replacement at a county hospital (ie, owned by the county), and kept getting bothered, woken up, peered at during procedures, etc etc by "ministers", and had to raise a ruckus every time. The difference was really surprising. On the other hand, I just visited that same catholic hospital for an x-ray, and it was pretty clear the place was on the verge of closing--so, good, I guess?
It happened here. A Catholic hospital was bought by the government, renamed, and had the big crucifixes removed from the outside walls. Some people were up in arms about it, but none of them were me.
This is going to get the forced birthers all in a lather regarding the pro-choice platform, because they (intentionally) do not understand what pro-choice means. The nuance and context of the situation will be ignored in order to claim pro-choice is flip flopping on whether the fetus is a person or not. Never mind the pro-choice position doesn’t truly address the personhood or humanity of the fetus, not in the way the forced birth position wants us to anyway. Yes the fetus is a human fetus but as such it still doesn’t have the right to the use of another person’s body without consent. By the time the fetus is viable, and the point of development of the fetus in the case in the article, most women have already decided to give consent to the fetus. (Unless they’ve been denied bodily autonomy up to the point of viability despite fighting for it.) This case is about a wanted pregnancy that went south but could have been saved. That is what the pregnant person would have wanted to if the doctors were competent enough to inform her of the situation. Most pregnant people seeking abortions later in pregnancy are doing so because there is something wrong that is life threatening. The fetus is generally no longer viable and if it isn’t removed soon it will kill the pregnant person. There are many many pregnant people dying from their doomed pregnancies here and now. Forced birthers ignore this issue, at best, but I’ve seen enough that are delighting in the deaths. “Serves them right for wanting to abort.” But they don’t want to abort, they need to abort, and the pregnancy is already unviable, and since there’s no intervention that could save the fetus, even if the heart is still making noise, providing the abortion is the only intervention to save the person carrying the doomed pregnancy. But they’re not doing that. They’re letting people they could save die out of some strict principle that they don’t even hold when their money is at stake. If the fetus could have been saved by terminating a pregnancy with an early birth, but they did not act and now they face a malpractice lawsuit and all of a sudden it’s cool for the fetus to die. It’s like it’s only a person if the pregnant person makes a decision about it.
It comes down to consent, which the religious (who make up the lion’s share plus more of forced birthers) refuse to understand. They only consider obedience. Consent requires someone to think for themselves and gives opportunity to say no and that does not compute in the religious worldview. Right and wrong is dependent only on whether you are doing what you are told to do. Hierarchy is imperative and women are always at the bottom. Refusing sex is wrong because men are in charge. Refusing to carry the pregnancy is wrong because government or religious leaders say it’s wrong. And there’s no arguing about it.
Sorry if this rambled or was too ranty, and maybe I’m not done with my points, but I have to get back to work. Anyway, the doctors should have informed the woman about her pregnancy, but they didn’t and are now trying to avoid accountability for their mistake. Sounds about white male privilege.
Boy, don't get me started on how horrendous the whole idea of faith is. Basically it's not even mortgaging your brain, because then there's the possibility you could reclaim it. No, it's more like drop-kicking it into the trash compactor.
Yep. I am frequently surprised at all the things I hadn't learned or even thought about because the indoctrination of the "faith" I was born into got in the way.
“(F)inding an unborn child to be a ‘person’ would lead to serious implications in other areas of the law.”
No kidding. People who are fighting for fetal personhood don't consider the implications. I can imagine a dozen scenarios that have far more ridiculous consequences than a malpractice lawsuit or allowing pregnant women to use the carpool lane.
I think many or most of the antiabortion activists and legislators have considered the consequences and simply don’t care. This was all planned for and the suffering and casualties are a trade off to them. Facing the reality of your “belief system” is far too big an ask.
"In Christianity, neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point"
I’m right there with you on that. At the moment, it’s hard not to fixate on religion(s) that dominate our country and are forcibly pushing their beliefs onto us via an empty vessel dictator at the top.
I concur but note that, bad as Christian privileging is in the USA, its Islamic equivalent in Arab countries and its Hindu counterpart under the Modi regime in India are even worse. But THEY don't have freedom of religion written right there as a founding principle of their countries.
1. I don’t think the Catholic Church gets a pass on this. It’s their gross misinterpretation of when life begins that lends credence to these hospitals denying care
2. So, there’s no such thing as fetal personhood when there’s money involved, but fetal personhood is for reals if a woman’s life is on the line. 🙄
That's why the rightwing bought and paid for its Robed Wunderkinder. SCOTUS will bless the defendants and drop-kick the plaintiffs through the goalposts of life. God's will, honey. Too bad, so sad.
I don't understand their confusion, the bible makes it perfectly clear:
Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑏𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡ℎ 𝑜𝑓 𝑙𝑖𝑓𝑒; 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑚𝑎𝑛 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑚𝑒 𝑎 𝑙𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑠𝑜𝑢𝑙."
Ezekiel 37:6 (KJV)
"And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑝𝑢𝑡 𝑏𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡ℎ 𝑖𝑛 𝑦𝑜𝑢, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑦𝑒 𝑠ℎ𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑙𝑖𝑣𝑒; and ye shall know that I am the Lord."
The term pro-life is a sick joke. Christians don't seem very pro-life when it comes to extant women and girls who find themselves pregnant with fetuses that are the result of rape and/or incest. Or that are unviable.
Or that might kill them because they're just so young their bodies probably couldn't handle a full-term pregnancy. The way they went after that 10-year-old rape victim from Ohio said all that needed to be said about them, and then some. These pro-lifers are the garbage people of humanity. Pure toxic waste, every last one of them.
They are also not very pro-life when it comes to providing assistance for poor people, such as food stamps, housing assistance or healthcare.
Or when the person is a stranger or a refugee - it really is as if they've never actually read what Jesus said about clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, providing shelter to strangers and healing the sick! I can't quote a single bible verse, but I try to be a decent person and that includes taking care that my government has got social programmes, which provide assistance to people in need. I'll pay (higher) taxes, it's what we pay to have a civil society.
What does your bible say about fetuses/the "unborn"? According to Leviticus 27:6, "A boy between the ages of one month and five years is valued at five shekels of silver; a girl of that age is valued at three shekels of silver."
Not surprised at the built-in misogny found in the bible, where females are automatically deemed inferior to males. But your own book says that anyone younger than 1 month (or is still a fetus in the womb) is considered worthless. Chew on that, thumpers.
It is impossible not to believe that the Catholic Church is home to the world’s most experienced hypocrites. They’ve had thousands of years of practice and have perfected hypocrisy to an art form. As a recovering Catholic myself, I find it beyond despicable.
I did a chaplaincy residence in St. Joseph Hospital in Memphis. A doctor on staff was a friend of Danny Thomas, which is where it got started. Eventually, the nuns checked out of Memphis and St. Jude expanded on to their former property.
Memphis does not get a lot credit for the great things it has to offer(Fuck off, Nashville), and St. Jude is one of the greatest. 100% secular. 100% free. 100% of what the church SHOULD be doing!
I woke up from a good night's sleep app 08:50 in the morning. Started to prepare a bath in my tub when a big aracne, d=11 cm, showed up in my tub. So I panicked, but it went okay, I had my towel. Husband got rid of it and told me it was a perfectly regular spider ariund here. I might never be able to sleep again.
Every pregnant person in Iowa needs to have this printed out and carried with them if they go to a Catholic hospital and need abortion care. Suffering a miscarriage and need an abortion to complete it properly? Show them that they don't consider the fetus to be a person, and they can therefore terminate. Fetus is still alive but completely nonviable once born? They better abort, or their arguments will be used against them in the lawsuit.
Of course, we all know that the Catholic hospitals will just go back to their forced-birther rhetoric and ignore medical professionals after this. This is all about avoiding financial responsibility for them, and nothing about remaining faithful to their doctrines. They have a centuries long track record of that.
For once I don’t really have a lot to say. This is just yet another consequence of the fornication of church and state, church and lawyers, church and healthcare, church and money.
"Church and money" is the combo that greases their access to state, lawyers, and healthcare, so they can throw monkey wrenches into the works for the rest of us.
The fundamental choice has not been as stark since World War II: democracy and freedom, or dictatorship and tyranny. Trump and his regime are siding with the latter. The rest of us must loudly, proudly, and boldly proclaim our allegiance to the former.
I, for one, would be more than happy to see all the churches forced out of the healthcare business. It sure isn't as if hospitals with religious affiliations are known for their charity and generosity. One of my greatest fears is finding myself spending my last days in a Catholic hospital with people trying to force their religion on me.
Forcing churches out of the healthcare business would be a start. Next should be forcing business out of healthcare. Why should anyone's ability to get the care they need be dictated by either someone else's religious rules or the provider's profit motive?
Countries need a separation of church and healthcare as much as church and state. Patients can already refuse care* if they want in any secular hospital like the fundie who refused an abortion for her embryo implanted in her C-section scar.
* France, law Kouchner 2002.
"separation of church and healthcare"
Now THERE's a concept! 👍
One I can certainly get behind.
I keep trying to find out about her, the woman who refused to end her ectopic pregnancy (in the c-section scar), but I’m not finding anything about how she’s doing. Of course, if things went south, we probably won’t hear a word about it. I hope she survived.
I don't remember if it's Hemant or someone in the comments who mentioned her (don't ask when), she somehow succeeded to give birth and gave all the credit to her god 🙄
It was in an OT comment to the Australian Census subject (18-feb-2025) https://www.friendlyatheist.com/p/australia-will-keep-screwing-up-the/comments
"OT - Follow-up from Oct 28, 2024: Mother and daughter survive high-risk ectopic pregnancy.
To be fair, even if she had asked to pray for her, it was her multi-discplinary medical team that she thanked for saving the lives of both herself and her baby.
Yes, she did survive her pregnancy. I searched for news about her case a wee while ago and found that she had given birth successfully.
I bet she lied, and just adopted someone else's baby.
Wouldn't surprise me. She had a lot invested in her Jesus-festooned outcome. The more dramatic, the better
Mother and child survived: See https://metro.co.uk/2025/02/15/pro-life-mum-of-eight-defies-odds-give-birth-ectopic-pregnancy-22565414/
That’s good news.
👆🎯Yes that woman certainly was an idiot, but it made great drama for her youtube channel. And it certainly was her right to be an idiot, and refuse standard of care procedures.
There are a (very) few private and religious hospitals in Norway, but they have to follow regular practice or to shut down.
Good for Norway.
I was in a small rural town where a private group had come in and built a new hospital to replace a hopelessly outdated one, but WITHOUT a maternity ward. Sure it was a small community hospital, but the next closest hospitals were an hour and a half away. Pregnant women with obstetrical emergencies would still face a long drive to the nearest OB-GYN-equipped ER. If they were bleeding out, they would probably have to be Life-Flighted just to save their lives.
I wondered at the time, "why bother to build a hospital at all, if there was no maternity ward?" Sure, there was quite a bit of diabetes and heart issues and geriatric-related health concerns, but there were a lot of young families there too.
Looking back, I now suspect that they were a religious or religious-adjacent group. At one point they tried to name the place "faith hospital," but the townspeople were furious that it wasn't going to be named after their hometown, so that was scrapped (this was about 20 years ago, well before the Christian Insanity movement wanted to slap Jesus nomenclature on everything). And their board meetings often discussed their "holistic approach" to medicine, because mind and body were interconnected - can't remember the exact wording, but "holistic" came up a lot.
Either way, they didn't seem very concerned about the reproductive health of women of child-bearing age. It seems to me that if they were a regular hospital, in an ideal world, they should have been required to "follow regular practice" of providing healthcare for EVERYONE in that community, including pregnant women. If they couldn't be arsed to do that in the health care desert where they were building, they should not have been funded in the first place.
Why should we care about breeding stock is the unspoken answer. There is no filth that can't be made worse with religion. As the Doctor said "just when I thought you'd run out of ways to make me sick, there you are."
Yeah.... *sigh*
Amen. We should also do away with “conscientious objection” laws in medical practices.
Yes, as a retired surgical assistant, I say they will never give proper medical standard of care in reproductive surgeries, thus should not be allowed to buy up hospitals in rural areas, giving prospective pregnant women who suffer an emergency, no choice in where to go.
Here a pregnant woman suffering an emergency calls 113 and get a visit from medic team. If needed they get moved to a hospital. The rural areas don't have full scales hospitals nearby. Helicopters are used every now and then. And boats, especially up north.
Private hospitals has to meet the rules to be allowed to call themselves hospitals.
Yes, it was like that in Canada, when we lived on Vancouver Island a friend was airlifted to the mainland when he had a massive heart attack. He got a pacemaker and lived a decade more.
I was recently a patient in a Catholic hospital. There was not a crucifix to be seen. Here in the bibble belt, Catholics are few and far between. No one tried to talk religion with me, even after they found out I was a retired pastor. I am on the patient advisory board of this particular hospital, and religion never comes up. It should be a private corporation. It was originally established by nuns who came from Indiana as a mission to Yellow Fever patients.
Not a single penguin left roaming the halls!
My insurance covers the catholic hospital in Madison, so that’s where I go. I’ve been in line waiting to check in (during COVID, so we were being screened and our temps taken) when they started saying prayers over the PA system. I think when I went for my hysterectomy the intake form asked if I wanted a visit by their chaplain, I said no. There are crucifixes visible in public areas and they include religious imagery on signs in their clinics around town. Mostly they don’t bother me with religious talk, but it’s still clearly a religious hospital. Thankfully I didn’t need any type of reproductive services from them, the hysterectomy notwithstanding. But my daughter might.
Is that the one formerly known as Sisters of Saint Mary's, now masquerading as SSM Health?
Yup
That sounds very much like the catholic hospital where I had a hip relacement several years ago. When I checked in, I told them I was an atheist and I didn't want any "ministry" visits, period. None happened. About ten years before, I had had my first hip replacement at a county hospital (ie, owned by the county), and kept getting bothered, woken up, peered at during procedures, etc etc by "ministers", and had to raise a ruckus every time. The difference was really surprising. On the other hand, I just visited that same catholic hospital for an x-ray, and it was pretty clear the place was on the verge of closing--so, good, I guess?
You should have asked for an abortion. Then they'll show their true color: red.
It happened here. A Catholic hospital was bought by the government, renamed, and had the big crucifixes removed from the outside walls. Some people were up in arms about it, but none of them were me.
Schrödinger's Fetus.....We don't know whether it's a person or not until we pick the money cherry.
👆🎯
There’s a lot going on with this one.
This is going to get the forced birthers all in a lather regarding the pro-choice platform, because they (intentionally) do not understand what pro-choice means. The nuance and context of the situation will be ignored in order to claim pro-choice is flip flopping on whether the fetus is a person or not. Never mind the pro-choice position doesn’t truly address the personhood or humanity of the fetus, not in the way the forced birth position wants us to anyway. Yes the fetus is a human fetus but as such it still doesn’t have the right to the use of another person’s body without consent. By the time the fetus is viable, and the point of development of the fetus in the case in the article, most women have already decided to give consent to the fetus. (Unless they’ve been denied bodily autonomy up to the point of viability despite fighting for it.) This case is about a wanted pregnancy that went south but could have been saved. That is what the pregnant person would have wanted to if the doctors were competent enough to inform her of the situation. Most pregnant people seeking abortions later in pregnancy are doing so because there is something wrong that is life threatening. The fetus is generally no longer viable and if it isn’t removed soon it will kill the pregnant person. There are many many pregnant people dying from their doomed pregnancies here and now. Forced birthers ignore this issue, at best, but I’ve seen enough that are delighting in the deaths. “Serves them right for wanting to abort.” But they don’t want to abort, they need to abort, and the pregnancy is already unviable, and since there’s no intervention that could save the fetus, even if the heart is still making noise, providing the abortion is the only intervention to save the person carrying the doomed pregnancy. But they’re not doing that. They’re letting people they could save die out of some strict principle that they don’t even hold when their money is at stake. If the fetus could have been saved by terminating a pregnancy with an early birth, but they did not act and now they face a malpractice lawsuit and all of a sudden it’s cool for the fetus to die. It’s like it’s only a person if the pregnant person makes a decision about it.
It comes down to consent, which the religious (who make up the lion’s share plus more of forced birthers) refuse to understand. They only consider obedience. Consent requires someone to think for themselves and gives opportunity to say no and that does not compute in the religious worldview. Right and wrong is dependent only on whether you are doing what you are told to do. Hierarchy is imperative and women are always at the bottom. Refusing sex is wrong because men are in charge. Refusing to carry the pregnancy is wrong because government or religious leaders say it’s wrong. And there’s no arguing about it.
Sorry if this rambled or was too ranty, and maybe I’m not done with my points, but I have to get back to work. Anyway, the doctors should have informed the woman about her pregnancy, but they didn’t and are now trying to avoid accountability for their mistake. Sounds about white male privilege.
Appreciate the rant. I once went startled a (mildly)religious colleague with an “Obedience is NOT a virtue” rant.
I have a “faith is a vice, not a virtue” rant. Some other day.
Boy, don't get me started on how horrendous the whole idea of faith is. Basically it's not even mortgaging your brain, because then there's the possibility you could reclaim it. No, it's more like drop-kicking it into the trash compactor.
I put it bluntly to a couple JWs, maybe half a year ago when I told them, "Faith is GULLIBILITY, believing something without good reason to do so."
They didn't like that much.
Yep. I am frequently surprised at all the things I hadn't learned or even thought about because the indoctrination of the "faith" I was born into got in the way.
Your comments are never a bother to read.
"Sounds about white male privilege.
Only because it IS about white male privilege. Funny thing, that.
Not ranty at all. This says what I am thinking and feeling, only much better than I could articulate it.
“(F)inding an unborn child to be a ‘person’ would lead to serious implications in other areas of the law.”
No kidding. People who are fighting for fetal personhood don't consider the implications. I can imagine a dozen scenarios that have far more ridiculous consequences than a malpractice lawsuit or allowing pregnant women to use the carpool lane.
I think many or most of the antiabortion activists and legislators have considered the consequences and simply don’t care. This was all planned for and the suffering and casualties are a trade off to them. Facing the reality of your “belief system” is far too big an ask.
"In Christianity, neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point"
Friedrich Nietzsche
I abhor all religions, denominations and sects, Abrahamic or otherwise. When it comes to religion, I'm an equal opportunity hater.
I’m right there with you on that. At the moment, it’s hard not to fixate on religion(s) that dominate our country and are forcibly pushing their beliefs onto us via an empty vessel dictator at the top.
I concur but note that, bad as Christian privileging is in the USA, its Islamic equivalent in Arab countries and its Hindu counterpart under the Modi regime in India are even worse. But THEY don't have freedom of religion written right there as a founding principle of their countries.
In this case, the hospital's lawyers can argue personhood until they are hoarse. The fetus had passed the viability stage fixed at 24 weeks.
Oh no, they are using it to control women, because those crazy fuckers want Gilead.
1. I don’t think the Catholic Church gets a pass on this. It’s their gross misinterpretation of when life begins that lends credence to these hospitals denying care
2. So, there’s no such thing as fetal personhood when there’s money involved, but fetal personhood is for reals if a woman’s life is on the line. 🙄
Number 2 pretty much sums it up. Fetuses aren't worth a plugged nickel to these religious nutters except as leverage to control women.
Exactly: Cletus loves fetus but with hate they will meet us
No, they shouldn't get a pass. They want to have their cake and eat it, too, and that simply is NOT happening, or it damned well shouldn't.
The scary part is what happens if SCOTUS gets a hold of this case.
That's why the rightwing bought and paid for its Robed Wunderkinder. SCOTUS will bless the defendants and drop-kick the plaintiffs through the goalposts of life. God's will, honey. Too bad, so sad.
Edited for typo
One more reason why I'm glad that the vast majority of healthcare options in northeast Ohio are SECULAR!
ALL healthcare should be secular.
I don't understand their confusion, the bible makes it perfectly clear:
Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑏𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡ℎ 𝑜𝑓 𝑙𝑖𝑓𝑒; 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑚𝑎𝑛 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑚𝑒 𝑎 𝑙𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑠𝑜𝑢𝑙."
Ezekiel 37:6 (KJV)
"And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑝𝑢𝑡 𝑏𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡ℎ 𝑖𝑛 𝑦𝑜𝑢, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑦𝑒 𝑠ℎ𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑙𝑖𝑣𝑒; and ye shall know that I am the Lord."
Once again, money money money makes the Catholic world go 'round. Why, it's almost as if they valued mammon more than Jesus.
Every time I see the term "Catholic healthcare" I immediately picture Mary Teresa Bojaxhiu (Mother Teresa), the Ghoul of Kolkata.
Money, money, money
Must be greedy
In the church men's world 🎶
Now you made me want to listen ABBA again.
Tell that to DM's non existent soul. I had to endure ABBA songs for decades 😅
Lucky you 🎃
The term pro-life is a sick joke. Christians don't seem very pro-life when it comes to extant women and girls who find themselves pregnant with fetuses that are the result of rape and/or incest. Or that are unviable.
Or that might kill them because they're just so young their bodies probably couldn't handle a full-term pregnancy. The way they went after that 10-year-old rape victim from Ohio said all that needed to be said about them, and then some. These pro-lifers are the garbage people of humanity. Pure toxic waste, every last one of them.
👆🎯stupid, sick, and ignorant people who should never be involved in any one else's medical decisions.
That's because it was simply a marketing term a scam thought up by two fanatically religious scammers.
https://www.printmag.com/political-design/the-semiotics-of-a-movement-how-pro-life-became-a-marketing-campaign/
They are also not very pro-life when it comes to providing assistance for poor people, such as food stamps, housing assistance or healthcare.
Or when the person is a stranger or a refugee - it really is as if they've never actually read what Jesus said about clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, providing shelter to strangers and healing the sick! I can't quote a single bible verse, but I try to be a decent person and that includes taking care that my government has got social programmes, which provide assistance to people in need. I'll pay (higher) taxes, it's what we pay to have a civil society.
To Christians...
What does your bible say about fetuses/the "unborn"? According to Leviticus 27:6, "A boy between the ages of one month and five years is valued at five shekels of silver; a girl of that age is valued at three shekels of silver."
Not surprised at the built-in misogny found in the bible, where females are automatically deemed inferior to males. But your own book says that anyone younger than 1 month (or is still a fetus in the womb) is considered worthless. Chew on that, thumpers.
Bible thumpers are worthless at any age.
It is impossible not to believe that the Catholic Church is home to the world’s most experienced hypocrites. They’ve had thousands of years of practice and have perfected hypocrisy to an art form. As a recovering Catholic myself, I find it beyond despicable.
I wonder how many in the higher levels of leadership believe their own BS.
We must protect children- 𝘦𝘹𝘤𝘦𝘱𝘵 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘱𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘴.
A fetus is a person- 𝘦𝘹𝘤𝘦𝘱𝘵 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘦 𝘨𝘦𝘵 𝘴𝘶𝘦𝘥 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘬𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘵.
Suffering is holy- 𝘦𝘹𝘤𝘦𝘱𝘵 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘪𝘵'𝘴 𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘦.
For the Roman Catholic Church, hypocrisy isn't just SOP... it's practically a sacrament.
Care about your life? Stay away from St. Anything hospital.
There’s always St. Jude’s Children's Research Hospital.
They do it right. And despite the name, they are utterly secular.
I did a chaplaincy residence in St. Joseph Hospital in Memphis. A doctor on staff was a friend of Danny Thomas, which is where it got started. Eventually, the nuns checked out of Memphis and St. Jude expanded on to their former property.
Memphis does not get a lot credit for the great things it has to offer(Fuck off, Nashville), and St. Jude is one of the greatest. 100% secular. 100% free. 100% of what the church SHOULD be doing!
We've got a St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital in my very nonreligious city. So proud..
Good point.
There's always St. Elsewhere, but I'm pretty sure they're no longer taking new patients! 😁
I loved that show.
I did too, except for the last episode. 😠
The hospital DM went to for her cancer treatment is Hôpital Saint-Louis, 100 % secular 🤣
But then the French state is very deliberately secular.
My sister in law worked at Methodless Hospital in NY.
When I broke my arm, I had to go to a catholic hospital. The buses don't run after midnight, and it was the closest.
When you tripped on a sign ?
Yes.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/60e2577c1d1acd4a1ecee91ba5e434d8064626b9f50b6ca12988eb8a94602ed9.jpg
Really, are we sure geese weren't secretly dragons already? Descending from above to sow chaos and destruction is kinda their jam.
Goosezilla?
History shows again and again
How nature honks at the folly of men
Oh no, there goes Ontario.
(Canadian goose)
Oh dear – whither are we wandering with this pun thread?
This part of the pun thread is going to bed. (12:23 am)
I woke up from a good night's sleep app 08:50 in the morning. Started to prepare a bath in my tub when a big aracne, d=11 cm, showed up in my tub. So I panicked, but it went okay, I had my towel. Husband got rid of it and told me it was a perfectly regular spider ariund here. I might never be able to sleep again.
This part of it is going to lie down and read a book until bedtime.5:49 pm.
With gnashing of beak and a trumpety sound
He pulls bird-killing wind turbine nacelles down.
Clueless children on a playground swing
Scream bug-eyed as he charges at them.
He picks up a truck and he throws it quite far
As he waddles through the alley toward the nearest bar.
Donald hulking out?
𝐼𝑛 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑡 𝑓𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑠, 𝑎𝑡𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑛𝑒𝑦𝑠 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝐶𝐻𝐼 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑀𝑒𝑟𝑐𝑦𝑂𝑛𝑒 𝑎𝑟𝑔𝑢𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 “𝑓𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑛 𝑢𝑛𝑏𝑜𝑟𝑛 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑏𝑒 𝑎 ‘𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑜𝑛’ 𝑤𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑖𝑚𝑝𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑖𝑛 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑤.” 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑎𝑟𝑔𝑢𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐴𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑜𝑛𝑠’ 𝑢𝑛𝑏𝑜𝑟𝑛 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑑 𝑠ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑏𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑒𝑑 𝑎 “𝑝𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑒𝑛𝑡” 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑝𝑢𝑟𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑒𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑐𝑢𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑑𝑎𝑚𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑠.
“𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑢𝑡𝑒 𝑜𝑟 𝑏𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑐𝑎𝑠𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑤 𝑓𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑛 𝑢𝑛𝑏𝑜𝑟𝑛 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑏𝑒 𝑎 ‘𝑝𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑒𝑛𝑡’ 𝑢𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑤,” 𝑎𝑡𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑛𝑒𝑦𝑠 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒 ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑝𝑖𝑡𝑎𝑙 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑡𝑜𝑙𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑡, 𝑐𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑛 𝐼𝑜𝑤𝑎 𝑆𝑢𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑒 𝐶𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑡 𝑟𝑢𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑖𝑛 𝑎 1971 𝑐𝑎𝑠𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 ℎ𝑒𝑙𝑑 “𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑏𝑒 𝑛𝑜 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦 (𝑜𝑓 𝑑𝑎𝑚𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑠) 𝑜𝑛 𝑏𝑒ℎ𝑎𝑙𝑓 𝑜𝑓, 𝑜𝑟 𝑓𝑜𝑟, 𝑎 𝑛𝑜𝑛𝑒𝑥𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑜𝑛.”
Every pregnant person in Iowa needs to have this printed out and carried with them if they go to a Catholic hospital and need abortion care. Suffering a miscarriage and need an abortion to complete it properly? Show them that they don't consider the fetus to be a person, and they can therefore terminate. Fetus is still alive but completely nonviable once born? They better abort, or their arguments will be used against them in the lawsuit.
Of course, we all know that the Catholic hospitals will just go back to their forced-birther rhetoric and ignore medical professionals after this. This is all about avoiding financial responsibility for them, and nothing about remaining faithful to their doctrines. They have a centuries long track record of that.
Chuck Grassley will personally stop by and bless each unborn fetus. Because God votes Republican.
𝐼𝑛 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑡 𝑓𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑠, 𝑎𝑡𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑛𝑒𝑦𝑠 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝐶𝐻𝐼 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑀𝑒𝑟𝑐𝑦𝑂𝑛𝑒 𝑎𝑟𝑔𝑢𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 “𝑓𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑛 𝑢𝑛𝑏𝑜𝑟𝑛 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑏𝑒 𝑎 ‘𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑜𝑛’ 𝑤𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑖𝑚𝑝𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑖𝑛 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑤.” 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑎𝑟𝑔𝑢𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐴𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑜𝑛𝑠’ 𝑢𝑛𝑏𝑜𝑟𝑛 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑑 𝑠ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑏𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑒𝑑 𝑎 “𝑝𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑒𝑛𝑡” 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑝𝑢𝑟𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑒𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑐𝑢𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑑𝑎𝑚𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑠.
Dear CHI and MercyOne,
Cry me a river. Then go fuck yourselves.
OT : for the ones who were worried about cdbunch :
"Mostly working on a personal project and my job. Just haven't been on
much the last couple of weeks."
Glad to hear it. :)
I waited a few days to see if he would comment since he doesn't often do on the weekend.
For once I don’t really have a lot to say. This is just yet another consequence of the fornication of church and state, church and lawyers, church and healthcare, church and money.
Mostly, church and money.
"Church and money" is the combo that greases their access to state, lawyers, and healthcare, so they can throw monkey wrenches into the works for the rest of us.
Absolutely. Why does God always need money?
The fundamental choice has not been as stark since World War II: democracy and freedom, or dictatorship and tyranny. Trump and his regime are siding with the latter. The rest of us must loudly, proudly, and boldly proclaim our allegiance to the former.