OT: My bride and I are going on a cruise in a week or two through the Alaskan Inner Passage (fortuitous that our travel plans are a cruise given her broken foot and attendant knee scooter) and we end up in Vancouver where we will spend a couple of days. I’m going to wear my “Dear Canada We Hate Him Too” t-shirt.
I’ve been on one cruise before — Galveston to Yucatán and back — and was bored out of my mind while at sea. I expect the scenery in the Inner Passage to be much better. Both of these cruises were really family reunions. “Cousins cruise” and it’s a good way for us to get together. To the extent that the two of us cruise in the future I want the ships to be way smaller than these multi-thousand passenger ships.
The scenery is nice, but early on it's nothing special if you live or frequently get up to the northwest. After the ship gets north, the shore excursions are pretty much daily and there's at least one day where the ship sails up to where a glacier drops into the sea. That was cool.
We did a 4 hour sightseeing excursion out Seward. Went right up close to a glacier. The captain pointed out that the engines were running at a pretty good speed just to keep us in place against the current from glacier melt. It was pretty amazing. And while we did not see any sizeable hunk of ice calve from the glacier, there were frequent sightings of what I’ll call crushed ice coming off the face. It was pretty cool. Later we came across a pod of orcas and another pod of …. gray whales(?) …. which was one of the most amazing sights I’ve seen. One of the grays appeared to be charging the boat and submerged only ~30 feet away.
I wish you get all the experiences you wish for. Husband and me are planning to retire next year. We might move from Oslo to Akkarvik (app 70,5 °N). Then we want to drive via Troms and Finmark to the eastern part (Vardø and Vatsø) of Norway. We are, of course, not gonna cross into Russia.
We have never been to Canada, if we can get there without landing in UnUS, we might visit.
My parents took me on an Alaskan tour as a high-school graduation present. I loved it. Some nice memories there. We went by cruise ship, train, bus. It was in 92, so after the big wildfire. We saw how nature was recovering. I saw salmon swimming upstream at Skagway, drank from a glacial stream, saw wild bears, first time on a cruise ship. Enjoy yourself!
We did Alaska by land 4 years ago. Anchorage, Talkeetna, Denali (which we never saw), Kenai, the train from Anchorage to Seward, and a few other things. We did a helicopter tour of the Kenai peninsula which really sold me on helicopter flightseeing. (Took a helicopter ride over the Grand Canyon this spring). And we came home with almost 100 pounds of halibut.
I have the good fortune to have two siblings living there so I get their inside scoop. I might go visit during salmon netting season just to see it. Theylanded 600 pounds of Copper River reds this year, which was about 3 times their usual haul. I’m taking my sister garden produce; she is giving me salmon.
We did this same tour about 5 years ago. We didn’t see Denali either! Saw quite a few grizzlies in the area. Loved Talkeetna. Also the plane ride. Have fun on this trip!
Talkeetna was great except for that’s where Covid hit 3 of the 4 people in the party. My sister was unaffected and kept us fed and watered. My bride felt like she had the worst flu of her life. My nephew couldn’t move his head without feeling nauseous. And I felt pretty good except for the urgent need to pee every 30 minutes for 36 consecutive hours. Years later, the need to pee is still urgent when it comes on which, thank goodness, is not every half-hour.
Hey MAGA! THIS is what religious freedom looks like. This is what separation of church and state means. This is what secular actually is. Secular does not mean atheist. It does not meam anti-Christian or anti-religion.
I am getting real tired of all these far right crazies screaming persecution when they are just being told that they have to follow the same rules as everyone else.
Any MAGA would listen to that and immediately respond with heresy. I'm not certain they are capable of acknowledging that there's any other religion than Christianity, and if so anything else has got to be of the devil.
Then too, that's what happens when people are wearing god-glasses.
Jesus himself banned praying in public. What do xtians not understand about their own savior telling them to go to their closet and pray IN SECRET? Why do they defy him on this? Why do they call him lord and then ignore his words?
"What do stains not understand about their own savior telling the to go to their closet and pray IN SECRET?"
That wasn't actually Jesus talking. Satan had actually managed to possess Jesus for a few minutes during his lifetime and during that very brief period of time, that's when the latter uttered those words./s
MAGAts: "We are not either spoiled brats! How dare you say we're not speshul, we are too special, we're the specialest speshul people in the world, and don't you forget it, you're just jealous cuz Jesus likes us better STOP PERSECUTING US!!!!!"
The point of Jesus' statement was to not pray to get attention and praise from others. It was not a prohibition on all public prayer. Jesus himself prayed in public. He prayed in public before feeding the multitudes (Matthew 14:19), at the tomb of Lazarus (John 11:41-42) and on the cross as he was dying (Matthew 27:46). And in the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, both pray in public (Luke 18:10-14) but only the Tax Collector had his prayer answered by God. And, there are several examples of prayers in public by Christians such as Paul (Acts 20:36) before leaving Ephesus. Sometimes, it astounds me that some skeptics embrace the same extreme literalism as the worst of the fundamentalists when reading the Bible.
Graf thinks I don't know scripture about Jesus violating his own rule about not praying in public, let alone the bible's ridiculous claims. Hard to get that worked up over a fantasy.
EDIT Now Graf says he previously published examples of Jesus praying in public. Too bad for him that I've known about them (and used them) for YEARS. Long before I ever even knew he existed.
If you want to interpret scripture just as literally as an ultra-fundamentalist then you needlessly create all sorts of silly contradictions. By the way, I furnished earlier in a different post several examples of where Jesus prayed in public.
Obviously, the actual prayers and the locations of those prayers (at least the private ones) will never be known publicly, so it seems a safe gambit either way.
Even when I was a child going to the local Southern Baptist Church every Sunday, it seemed a major disconnect that we have to make requests of an "omniscient" being.
Since, through experience, I've embraced the "connectedness of all things". After all, there are (theoretically) only two states for existence to take: perfect order or total chaos.
Since we are certainly not existing in a state of total chaos, and most of this reality we inhabit will never be made clear to any human mind, to me "perfect order" is something I work to understand, knowing this human body / mind never really will.
(Sorry. Just an aside. No reply expected. This belief just helps me locate my calm center. And I do NOT pray...or prey.)
I will kinda agree with you here. I read that passage as similar to what I said above: if you're at a ceremony in honor of someone and you put them first in your thoughts and words, then you're probably speaking fine, whether what you say is secular or a prayer. In contrast, if you're putting yourself first and trying to virtue signal, then your words are probably not fine - again, regardless of whether they're a prayer or secular.
The sad thing about the virtue signalers is that they think they impress others by dragging things out and consequently boring the you know what out of the captive audience. In contrast, the so-called Lord's Prayer can be said in less than a minute.
“By not bringing up my god, you are oppressing atheists and minority religions.”
That doesn’t make any sense but that is what these people who are complaining are saying. But that’s not what they mean. They mean that they should be deferred to at all times.
Outside of the time I spend here at Friendly Atheist, I go entire days, weeks, months without having to refer to my religious outlook, I really don’t understand these folks who have to insert Jesus into every sentence, every thought they are exposed to by others or themselves. I am almost certain that they don’t really eat, sleep, and breathe the gospel in their own lives, it is only when they can be seen doing it and pressuring others into it.
Not having prayers at mandatory events is not infringing on atheists’ rights, not having to hear about Jesus or God with a capital g at events the servicemembers are expected to be is not infringing on Muslims’, Jewish people’s, or other minority religions’ rights. All it is doing is removing a Christian privilege that has gone on far too long. It should also shorten the events, reducing the number of the military passing out in formation, getting heat exhaustion or other incidents. Anyone who has been in the military understands. The leadership are all big ole blowhards who love the sound of their own voices and all the enlisted are expected to stand at attention for hours to hear them out. One less passionate yet rambling speech, or at least a shorter one, is a gift to the event.
If you could challenge me I would be flabbergasted. But you can only do what cowards do and repeat the same bullshit over and over again, then make a personal attack.
Jesus suffered three days of pain, died then went to heaven to be a god. Where’s the sacrifice? Your mother made a greater sacrifice to pay for you to have an opportunity at a great life. And continues or continued to do so until she dies/died. Jesus sat atop a pole for a while and got so much more out of it than we ever will. He had nothing to do with me, I didn’t ask for it, I don’t want it, and it does nothing for me in the here and now. And if I have to spend my waking hours singing his praises to get the value of his sacrifice, it’s not a sacrifice, it’s a transaction.
Proselytism requires one to go to others who don’t believe in order to convert them, we aren’t looking for you to change your mind, so no we aren’t proselytizing here. This isn’t a religion, it’s more of a watch group, keeping tabs on the religious overreach in our lives. But you be you, just don’t bother us with it.
That's exactly what evolution is it is public-prophilization of something unproven. At least I hadn't said anything about talking animals, could it be that you're nothing but talking animals yourself and you understand that?
Atheists have nothing to proselytize about. Atheism is simply acknowledgment that no proof of the supernatural exists. An educated person would know this.
Well you teach a pretty powerful nothing in your churches. Broke the laws of physics, and science, but that's ok, the ultimate goal is to get rid of God right? I didn't know i was a monkey until i was about 8. And you know what? Your trying to put up a satanic display in a court house, what's that about?
I don't think anyone believes anymore that we fight for religious freedom around the world. we're fighting for trump's and his cabal's opportunities, day after day, to game betting markets and pursue corruption. Think about it, that's the only effect of this war that has benefited anybody - all the huge bets on the price of oil, always 15 minutes before Trump announces some bullshit shift in negotiations or the cancellation of an imminent threat or whatever. Giant military contracts with no review or bids, some of them going to companies affiliated with Trump himself and his sons or other people in the administration. Now there are even corporate trump-pals in the military making spending and contracting decisions. It's the rankest, most extensive and total corruption in world history.
America's credibility, expectation of good faith, military preparedness, missile stockpile, military esprit de corps - all are just casualties of this program to further enrich the rich. Hegseth's personal mission to make the military a religious affair matching his aesthetic is just a side-show, serving as a distraction.
As I see, it the country I once knew is already dead. With a lot of concerted effort diligently applied without letup, we might be able to resurrect it from the ashes in a few years, but because economic resources have been stripped away by the billionaire oligarchy, it will take generations upon generations of blood, sweat, and tears to get back to anything even remotely resembling what we had before.
Some experts are saying that some of the things that Trump has done to the US will take years to fix. I might include the mindset he's managed to propagate/legitimise as one of those.
I'm more optimistic note, then Binface has pretty much humiliated Nigel Farage in Britain. I can't help but love it.
I am usually a pessimist and quite often depressed. I possible would have been dead by now if my super optimistic partner was not here for me all days, any time. Exept when he goes up north hunting.
I sometimes describe myself as an optimistic pessimist. I am certain that bad things will happen but I believe that I can handle it and that things will turn out ok. So far that has turned out to be true which has reinforced the attitude. And maybe it's just that I keep my expectations fairly low. Or I'm lucky that things have turned out well enough that I can view them as ok.
My original comment was half meant to be serious and half meant to be humorous but I am well aware that depression is serious. My father-in-law suffered from it and it was heart-wrenching to watch him deteriorate. If you have a partner that makes you feel better that's great. Not everyone finds that.
Whether folks believed we were fighting for religious freedom around the world or not, we have never fought for religious freedom around the world. We fought for control of resources. We fought so that corporations could make profits off the backs of the countries we destabilized. We fought for slave labor and cheap crap.
Our leaders told us it was about freedom and glory and standing up for the oppressed. But those were all lies. All of them. Even when we were fighting the right fight, WWII for example, we weren’t doing it for the freedom reasons.
"We ask that our words and actions would be guided by wisdom and love. That we would allow compassion and patience into our day to day lives. That we would see that each life and each person we meet is special, unique, and worthy of basic human dignity and rights. That our conduct would bring honor to our military, our country, and our families. That each of us will look out for each other and protect each other and do everything we can to succeed and bring everyone home safely. May it be ever so."
There we go. Non-sectarian, appropriate prayer typed out in two minutes. Stop whining and just consider that not everyone is going to appreciate a "Oh Father, we thank you, Father, for just being with us, Father. Father, we thank you, Father, for the gift, Father, of life, Father...."
"Father this, Father that." Sat through many of those Father-Father-Father and Lord-Lord-Lord prayers droned out by dark-suited deacons who obviously thought they would be heard for their much speaking.
What is wrong with us? Why can’t we be realistic and practical like the Canadians? They do all right, and I’ll bet their religious fanatics do just fine without state interference.
The idea government can impose a particular brand of Christianity, or any other religion, on the military is about as stupidly dangerous as thinking gets. Pickled Pete Hegseth was a drunken Faux Noise weekend news actor whose own military career peaked out at Major. For those unfamiliar with the American Military, there are ten officer grades, and a Major is an O-4. Six grades below a four-star. In Vietnam proselytizing chaplains would have been dealt with from the bottom up, and they rarely over-stepped their boundaries.
Actually, I'd be happy enough with Christianity (if it HAD to be), at least the New Testament version, with all the love from Jesus. (I LUV that Sermon On the Mount shit!)
But what Trump and Kegbreath want is "Trump IS Gawd", and that's not so good...
If a Christian member of the CAF was at a “public event” at which a non-Christian CAF chaplain was speaking, would the former appreciate the non-exclusive comments of the latter?
The Christian member wouldn't care. He's just trying to keep his head down and get his job done. The Christian chaplain, however, might be a bit miffed that the non-Christian chaplain didn't stick to Christianity only. Christian Fucking Privilege is spreading north.
Having a Canadian VPN (yes, I'm that paranoid), my MSN homepage is Canadian. It is very disappointing reading the commenters complaining about "woke this" and "liberals that". I grew up in Michigan, where we were wrapped around by Canada. Sorry, Steve Perry, South Detroit is Windsor. i have always held Canadians to higher standard.
The tribalism here really should be "we are both military, and you are representing the military in a positive manner", not "I am Christian, so anytime any chaplain speaks I will be offended if it's not Jesus Jesus Jesus."
If the United States can't be more egalitarian as it comes to the treatment of religion in the military, at least our neighbors to the north can be so bothered. No great surprise that even the Christians in Canada want to get bent out of shape because they're not getting preferential treatment.
I don't know how we get the message across to them, but it needs to be emphasized to these spoiled brats that Christians are no more special than any other religion or lack thereof.
i'd be okay with expanding the 'funerals not public' exception. Been to a bunch of federal promotion and retirement ceremonies, I really have no problem with a speaker at those giving their own personal faith statement as long as it's something that is supportive of the person being honored. Look, if the family member speaking can do it, I don't see why someone else can't.
The problem with officials speaking religiously at such ceremonies is when they're being dickish by shoving their religion where it's not wanted. Using someone else's event for their own personal goals. But if you're coming together to honor someone, and they would be honored by some sincere religious sentiment on your part, then by all means feel free to give it. Put them first, you're probably good. Put you first, you're not doing it right.
OT: My bride and I are going on a cruise in a week or two through the Alaskan Inner Passage (fortuitous that our travel plans are a cruise given her broken foot and attendant knee scooter) and we end up in Vancouver where we will spend a couple of days. I’m going to wear my “Dear Canada We Hate Him Too” t-shirt.
That's a good cruise. Enjoy!
I’ve been on one cruise before — Galveston to Yucatán and back — and was bored out of my mind while at sea. I expect the scenery in the Inner Passage to be much better. Both of these cruises were really family reunions. “Cousins cruise” and it’s a good way for us to get together. To the extent that the two of us cruise in the future I want the ships to be way smaller than these multi-thousand passenger ships.
The scenery is nice, but early on it's nothing special if you live or frequently get up to the northwest. After the ship gets north, the shore excursions are pretty much daily and there's at least one day where the ship sails up to where a glacier drops into the sea. That was cool.
Yes, it was a glacier.
"I can resist everything except temptation."
Oscar Wilde: Lady Windermere's Fan.
We did a 4 hour sightseeing excursion out Seward. Went right up close to a glacier. The captain pointed out that the engines were running at a pretty good speed just to keep us in place against the current from glacier melt. It was pretty amazing. And while we did not see any sizeable hunk of ice calve from the glacier, there were frequent sightings of what I’ll call crushed ice coming off the face. It was pretty cool. Later we came across a pod of orcas and another pod of …. gray whales(?) …. which was one of the most amazing sights I’ve seen. One of the grays appeared to be charging the boat and submerged only ~30 feet away.
I wish you get all the experiences you wish for. Husband and me are planning to retire next year. We might move from Oslo to Akkarvik (app 70,5 °N). Then we want to drive via Troms and Finmark to the eastern part (Vardø and Vatsø) of Norway. We are, of course, not gonna cross into Russia.
We have never been to Canada, if we can get there without landing in UnUS, we might visit.
There must be a way to get to Canada without going thru the US (he says naively).
Have a wonderful time!
Thanks. It’s a bucket list item.
My parents took me on an Alaskan tour as a high-school graduation present. I loved it. Some nice memories there. We went by cruise ship, train, bus. It was in 92, so after the big wildfire. We saw how nature was recovering. I saw salmon swimming upstream at Skagway, drank from a glacial stream, saw wild bears, first time on a cruise ship. Enjoy yourself!
We were in Yellowstone a few years after the big forest fire there. It was interesting.
We did Alaska by land 4 years ago. Anchorage, Talkeetna, Denali (which we never saw), Kenai, the train from Anchorage to Seward, and a few other things. We did a helicopter tour of the Kenai peninsula which really sold me on helicopter flightseeing. (Took a helicopter ride over the Grand Canyon this spring). And we came home with almost 100 pounds of halibut.
I have the good fortune to have two siblings living there so I get their inside scoop. I might go visit during salmon netting season just to see it. Theylanded 600 pounds of Copper River reds this year, which was about 3 times their usual haul. I’m taking my sister garden produce; she is giving me salmon.
We did this same tour about 5 years ago. We didn’t see Denali either! Saw quite a few grizzlies in the area. Loved Talkeetna. Also the plane ride. Have fun on this trip!
Talkeetna was great except for that’s where Covid hit 3 of the 4 people in the party. My sister was unaffected and kept us fed and watered. My bride felt like she had the worst flu of her life. My nephew couldn’t move his head without feeling nauseous. And I felt pretty good except for the urgent need to pee every 30 minutes for 36 consecutive hours. Years later, the need to pee is still urgent when it comes on which, thank goodness, is not every half-hour.
What, no Cicely, Alaska.
𝐶𝐴𝐹 𝑚𝑒𝑚𝑏𝑒𝑟𝑠 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑑𝑜𝑚 𝑜𝑓 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑛. 𝑇ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑖𝑛𝑐𝑙𝑢𝑑𝑒𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑑𝑜𝑚 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑛𝑜 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑓 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡𝑠𝑜𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟. 𝐼𝑛 𝑎𝑑𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛, 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐶𝐴𝐹 ℎ𝑎𝑠 𝑎 𝑑𝑢𝑡𝑦 𝑜𝑓 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑛𝑒𝑢𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑦. 𝐼𝑡 𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑓𝑎𝑣𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑐𝑒𝑟𝑡𝑎𝑖𝑛 𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑓𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑒𝑥𝑐𝑙𝑢𝑠𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑜𝑓 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑠.
Hey MAGA! THIS is what religious freedom looks like. This is what separation of church and state means. This is what secular actually is. Secular does not mean atheist. It does not meam anti-Christian or anti-religion.
I am getting real tired of all these far right crazies screaming persecution when they are just being told that they have to follow the same rules as everyone else.
Any MAGA would listen to that and immediately respond with heresy. I'm not certain they are capable of acknowledging that there's any other religion than Christianity, and if so anything else has got to be of the devil.
Then too, that's what happens when people are wearing god-glasses.
Hail Brage.
So, basically what you’re saying is: look at what the US military is doing, and do the direct opposite!
Yup, sounds about right.
Oh noes!! Xtians are being oppressed.
Even worse: they're being expected be treated equally with everyone else! Oh my goodness! 😱😱😱
That makes them happy.
On prayer "bans":
Jesus himself banned praying in public. What do xtians not understand about their own savior telling them to go to their closet and pray IN SECRET? Why do they defy him on this? Why do they call him lord and then ignore his words?
"What do stains not understand about their own savior telling the to go to their closet and pray IN SECRET?"
That wasn't actually Jesus talking. Satan had actually managed to possess Jesus for a few minutes during his lifetime and during that very brief period of time, that's when the latter uttered those words./s
They think praying (preying?) gets them clicks from Gawd (but apparently only if other humans notice.)
Their Jesus said those clicks for performative Christianity won’t be forthcoming from his pops in Matthew 6:1
TL:DNR
(More than 3 words right? That would go against GawdTrump.)
MAGAts: "We are not either spoiled brats! How dare you say we're not speshul, we are too special, we're the specialest speshul people in the world, and don't you forget it, you're just jealous cuz Jesus likes us better STOP PERSECUTING US!!!!!"
You have just not read the Gospel of Rethuglican Jeebus! I am expecting a Christian Nationalist rewrite of the whole bible just any day now.
It will be an even bigger laugh riot for everything it gets wrong. Which will be everything.
The point of Jesus' statement was to not pray to get attention and praise from others. It was not a prohibition on all public prayer. Jesus himself prayed in public. He prayed in public before feeding the multitudes (Matthew 14:19), at the tomb of Lazarus (John 11:41-42) and on the cross as he was dying (Matthew 27:46). And in the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, both pray in public (Luke 18:10-14) but only the Tax Collector had his prayer answered by God. And, there are several examples of prayers in public by Christians such as Paul (Acts 20:36) before leaving Ephesus. Sometimes, it astounds me that some skeptics embrace the same extreme literalism as the worst of the fundamentalists when reading the Bible.
The point of Jesus' statement was non-existent since there is no proof of any claim the bible makes.
Bingo.
Graf thinks I don't know scripture about Jesus violating his own rule about not praying in public, let alone the bible's ridiculous claims. Hard to get that worked up over a fantasy.
EDIT Now Graf says he previously published examples of Jesus praying in public. Too bad for him that I've known about them (and used them) for YEARS. Long before I ever even knew he existed.
The point continues to whoosh over his head.
He is incapable of learning or growth.
Exactly. He's the same as he was back in the Patheos Era of FA. Wasting everyone's time re-asking the same questions we've answered repeatedly.
I got off his merry-go-round and almost never respond to him directly.
If you want to interpret scripture just as literally as an ultra-fundamentalist then you needlessly create all sorts of silly contradictions. By the way, I furnished earlier in a different post several examples of where Jesus prayed in public.
Scripture is all silly contradictions and no proof of jesus has been presented.
https://ibb.co/YFGzZvpY
That someone shouldn't be a hypocrite is a good point regardless of who said it first.
But, please, NOT THROUGH A LOUDSPEAKER; there are limits.
Obviously, the actual prayers and the locations of those prayers (at least the private ones) will never be known publicly, so it seems a safe gambit either way.
In the end, of course, we're talking about an imaginary religious figure there's no evidence for and prayer (public and private) being worthless.
NOGODZ,
Even when I was a child going to the local Southern Baptist Church every Sunday, it seemed a major disconnect that we have to make requests of an "omniscient" being.
Since, through experience, I've embraced the "connectedness of all things". After all, there are (theoretically) only two states for existence to take: perfect order or total chaos.
Since we are certainly not existing in a state of total chaos, and most of this reality we inhabit will never be made clear to any human mind, to me "perfect order" is something I work to understand, knowing this human body / mind never really will.
(Sorry. Just an aside. No reply expected. This belief just helps me locate my calm center. And I do NOT pray...or prey.)
I will kinda agree with you here. I read that passage as similar to what I said above: if you're at a ceremony in honor of someone and you put them first in your thoughts and words, then you're probably speaking fine, whether what you say is secular or a prayer. In contrast, if you're putting yourself first and trying to virtue signal, then your words are probably not fine - again, regardless of whether they're a prayer or secular.
The sad thing about the virtue signalers is that they think they impress others by dragging things out and consequently boring the you know what out of the captive audience. In contrast, the so-called Lord's Prayer can be said in less than a minute.
More importantly, it can be said in your head. Jesus will know you thought it. Right?
You are right.
Easy question. The answer is they are illiterate, stupid, mean and love to watch people they dislike suffer.
“By not bringing up my god, you are oppressing atheists and minority religions.”
That doesn’t make any sense but that is what these people who are complaining are saying. But that’s not what they mean. They mean that they should be deferred to at all times.
Outside of the time I spend here at Friendly Atheist, I go entire days, weeks, months without having to refer to my religious outlook, I really don’t understand these folks who have to insert Jesus into every sentence, every thought they are exposed to by others or themselves. I am almost certain that they don’t really eat, sleep, and breathe the gospel in their own lives, it is only when they can be seen doing it and pressuring others into it.
Not having prayers at mandatory events is not infringing on atheists’ rights, not having to hear about Jesus or God with a capital g at events the servicemembers are expected to be is not infringing on Muslims’, Jewish people’s, or other minority religions’ rights. All it is doing is removing a Christian privilege that has gone on far too long. It should also shorten the events, reducing the number of the military passing out in formation, getting heat exhaustion or other incidents. Anyone who has been in the military understands. The leadership are all big ole blowhards who love the sound of their own voices and all the enlisted are expected to stand at attention for hours to hear them out. One less passionate yet rambling speech, or at least a shorter one, is a gift to the event.
Once you understand the price he paid for the opportunity for you to have a great life, ya wont wonder anymore.
Proselytizing is not allowed here. Most of us have been Christians just as believing as you are, we understand just fine. Be gone.
Ok, i thought you were talking about your religion??? Proselytizing much? I know you dont want to be challenged.
If you could challenge me I would be flabbergasted. But you can only do what cowards do and repeat the same bullshit over and over again, then make a personal attack.
Jesus suffered three days of pain, died then went to heaven to be a god. Where’s the sacrifice? Your mother made a greater sacrifice to pay for you to have an opportunity at a great life. And continues or continued to do so until she dies/died. Jesus sat atop a pole for a while and got so much more out of it than we ever will. He had nothing to do with me, I didn’t ask for it, I don’t want it, and it does nothing for me in the here and now. And if I have to spend my waking hours singing his praises to get the value of his sacrifice, it’s not a sacrifice, it’s a transaction.
Proselytism requires one to go to others who don’t believe in order to convert them, we aren’t looking for you to change your mind, so no we aren’t proselytizing here. This isn’t a religion, it’s more of a watch group, keeping tabs on the religious overreach in our lives. But you be you, just don’t bother us with it.
That's exactly what evolution is it is public-prophilization of something unproven. At least I hadn't said anything about talking animals, could it be that you're nothing but talking animals yourself and you understand that?
Evolution has nothing to do with atheism. How embarrassing for you.
Atheists have nothing to proselytize about. Atheism is simply acknowledgment that no proof of the supernatural exists. An educated person would know this.
Well you teach a pretty powerful nothing in your churches. Broke the laws of physics, and science, but that's ok, the ultimate goal is to get rid of God right? I didn't know i was a monkey until i was about 8. And you know what? Your trying to put up a satanic display in a court house, what's that about?
We don't have churches. You seem a bit mentally deficient.
No one paid any price. Jesus never existed. The bible is the claim, not the proof.
I don't think anyone believes anymore that we fight for religious freedom around the world. we're fighting for trump's and his cabal's opportunities, day after day, to game betting markets and pursue corruption. Think about it, that's the only effect of this war that has benefited anybody - all the huge bets on the price of oil, always 15 minutes before Trump announces some bullshit shift in negotiations or the cancellation of an imminent threat or whatever. Giant military contracts with no review or bids, some of them going to companies affiliated with Trump himself and his sons or other people in the administration. Now there are even corporate trump-pals in the military making spending and contracting decisions. It's the rankest, most extensive and total corruption in world history.
America's credibility, expectation of good faith, military preparedness, missile stockpile, military esprit de corps - all are just casualties of this program to further enrich the rich. Hegseth's personal mission to make the military a religious affair matching his aesthetic is just a side-show, serving as a distraction.
As I see, it the country I once knew is already dead. With a lot of concerted effort diligently applied without letup, we might be able to resurrect it from the ashes in a few years, but because economic resources have been stripped away by the billionaire oligarchy, it will take generations upon generations of blood, sweat, and tears to get back to anything even remotely resembling what we had before.
Some experts are saying that some of the things that Trump has done to the US will take years to fix. I might include the mindset he's managed to propagate/legitimise as one of those.
I'm more optimistic note, then Binface has pretty much humiliated Nigel Farage in Britain. I can't help but love it.
If I weren't such an optimist, I would be totally depressed by the current outlook. As it is, the optimism is being seriously eroded. 🥺
I am usually a pessimist and quite often depressed. I possible would have been dead by now if my super optimistic partner was not here for me all days, any time. Exept when he goes up north hunting.
I sometimes describe myself as an optimistic pessimist. I am certain that bad things will happen but I believe that I can handle it and that things will turn out ok. So far that has turned out to be true which has reinforced the attitude. And maybe it's just that I keep my expectations fairly low. Or I'm lucky that things have turned out well enough that I can view them as ok.
My original comment was half meant to be serious and half meant to be humorous but I am well aware that depression is serious. My father-in-law suffered from it and it was heart-wrenching to watch him deteriorate. If you have a partner that makes you feel better that's great. Not everyone finds that.
Whether folks believed we were fighting for religious freedom around the world or not, we have never fought for religious freedom around the world. We fought for control of resources. We fought so that corporations could make profits off the backs of the countries we destabilized. We fought for slave labor and cheap crap.
Our leaders told us it was about freedom and glory and standing up for the oppressed. But those were all lies. All of them. Even when we were fighting the right fight, WWII for example, we weren’t doing it for the freedom reasons.
As a Norwegian, I can confirm that we don't trust or rely on US as we used to.
"We ask that our words and actions would be guided by wisdom and love. That we would allow compassion and patience into our day to day lives. That we would see that each life and each person we meet is special, unique, and worthy of basic human dignity and rights. That our conduct would bring honor to our military, our country, and our families. That each of us will look out for each other and protect each other and do everything we can to succeed and bring everyone home safely. May it be ever so."
There we go. Non-sectarian, appropriate prayer typed out in two minutes. Stop whining and just consider that not everyone is going to appreciate a "Oh Father, we thank you, Father, for just being with us, Father. Father, we thank you, Father, for the gift, Father, of life, Father...."
"Father this, Father that." Sat through many of those Father-Father-Father and Lord-Lord-Lord prayers droned out by dark-suited deacons who obviously thought they would be heard for their much speaking.
"𝐼𝑡’𝑠 𝑎 𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔𝑒𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑒𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑦, 𝑒𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑐𝑖𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑤𝑒 𝑐𝑙𝑎𝑖𝑚 𝑡𝑜 𝑓𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑑𝑜𝑚 𝑎𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑙𝑑."
I guarantee most people around the world are assuming we are fighting a holy war, not religious freedom.
What is wrong with us? Why can’t we be realistic and practical like the Canadians? They do all right, and I’ll bet their religious fanatics do just fine without state interference.
The US needs more Tim Hortons.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6b3248da1ab2de184e4deaafe7ec7cce4b689ce6d449ef1dbd364eada5df4e28.jpg
DAMN! https://ibb.co/T5S5Mw9
Not as bad as RFK Junior and kid Rock exercising in jeans - shirtless. Every time I see that I throw up a little on the back of my throat.
I'm halfway to horking just from being reminded by your comment.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cb6a3c90824c04ef8046e5d55ed8b7b93e2626afcf50dd4f64ec217d25ce4766.gif
PSA/palate cleanser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5QBmphmLbc
Yummy.
The best chaplains I worked with embodied the Serve All philosophy. The worst tried to force their personal faith perspective on all of us.
The idea government can impose a particular brand of Christianity, or any other religion, on the military is about as stupidly dangerous as thinking gets. Pickled Pete Hegseth was a drunken Faux Noise weekend news actor whose own military career peaked out at Major. For those unfamiliar with the American Military, there are ten officer grades, and a Major is an O-4. Six grades below a four-star. In Vietnam proselytizing chaplains would have been dealt with from the bottom up, and they rarely over-stepped their boundaries.
Actually, I'd be happy enough with Christianity (if it HAD to be), at least the New Testament version, with all the love from Jesus. (I LUV that Sermon On the Mount shit!)
But what Trump and Kegbreath want is "Trump IS Gawd", and that's not so good...
Actually, America as a Taoist nation makes me VERY happy.
Or Eckankar, but it's a hard path, with great reward.
Trump is the monster from the MAGA id.
Edited for typo.
"American Military" of the United States and Canada. Both American countries. Thanks
👀
😆
If a Christian member of the CAF was at a “public event” at which a non-Christian CAF chaplain was speaking, would the former appreciate the non-exclusive comments of the latter?
The Christian member wouldn't care. He's just trying to keep his head down and get his job done. The Christian chaplain, however, might be a bit miffed that the non-Christian chaplain didn't stick to Christianity only. Christian Fucking Privilege is spreading north.
I may be full of beans here, but I suspect that the kind of Christian privilege we see in the United States won't be as well tolerated in Canada.
Any Canadian commenters here who would like to correct me are invited to do so.
We have our share of radical Xtians here in Canada. There are branches of large US evangelicals here too like Kenneth Copeland
Having a Canadian VPN (yes, I'm that paranoid), my MSN homepage is Canadian. It is very disappointing reading the commenters complaining about "woke this" and "liberals that". I grew up in Michigan, where we were wrapped around by Canada. Sorry, Steve Perry, South Detroit is Windsor. i have always held Canadians to higher standard.
Steve Perry?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Perry_(author)
No, this one:
https://youtu.be/VcjzHMhBtf0?is=f_eZpapaI1m8LDyK
There's another Steve Perry‽ 🤯
Hopefully.
The tribalism here really should be "we are both military, and you are representing the military in a positive manner", not "I am Christian, so anytime any chaplain speaks I will be offended if it's not Jesus Jesus Jesus."
If the United States can't be more egalitarian as it comes to the treatment of religion in the military, at least our neighbors to the north can be so bothered. No great surprise that even the Christians in Canada want to get bent out of shape because they're not getting preferential treatment.
I don't know how we get the message across to them, but it needs to be emphasized to these spoiled brats that Christians are no more special than any other religion or lack thereof.
Btw - greetings from Belgium to everyone, just had to stop for a hydration break. It’s definitely scorchio!
We'll send your Rory* by express post.
* See the section titled "Behind the scenes" on https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Rory_Award
i'd be okay with expanding the 'funerals not public' exception. Been to a bunch of federal promotion and retirement ceremonies, I really have no problem with a speaker at those giving their own personal faith statement as long as it's something that is supportive of the person being honored. Look, if the family member speaking can do it, I don't see why someone else can't.
The problem with officials speaking religiously at such ceremonies is when they're being dickish by shoving their religion where it's not wanted. Using someone else's event for their own personal goals. But if you're coming together to honor someone, and they would be honored by some sincere religious sentiment on your part, then by all means feel free to give it. Put them first, you're probably good. Put you first, you're not doing it right.