I'm a cis-gendered woman, and I will happily share any space with transwomen, because I am a true believer in feminism, which means we are all equal, and should have basic human rights. I hate sharing space with bigoted jerks, though because they pretend to speak for all of us.
I am old enough to have seen my mother excluded from a bathroom in Florida five years AFTER the civil rights act. Because I pass White, I didn't get "the talk" (if you don't know, ask a Black friend) until after I started transition. And every bit of it reads the same, and just how it was when the other parts of the queer community became more visible.
Please demonstrate where you believe I have claimed victimhood.
For bonus points, guess at my level of college completed.
If, in doing so (or failing to do so), I do not fall into your narrow little pigeonhole, can we agree your message has nothing to do with me and I can properly ignore it?
Before you start, actually read the article. Arguing that all trans women should be prohibited from women's sports is the exact same thing as saying all black people should be prohibited from using the same water fountains as white people. I have given you my current understanding of trans people in comments on other articles. This is the only direct communication you will get from me. If you still want to flaunt your bigotry, then fuck off.
So you're saying tall women have an unfair advantage at basketball, petite women an unfair advantage in gymnastics, and you have an unfair disadvantage at everything that requires cognitive abilities.....got it.
Men who have undergone puberty have a decided advantage over women in sports. That is a fact. Deny facts that don't support your opinions as transphobic is your choice.
Yes, asking someone to pray with you is spiteful. It assumes that everyone is a kkkristian. It is also known as virtue signaling. The decline was done gracefully.
And why the fuck would anyone pray over something they bought at a yard sale?
Thank you, Aaron Rabinowitz for that thoughtful, careful debunking of the ethical and political problems with Coyne's utterly deficient article. FFRF OWES its supporters a fulsome explanation of how and why that article got published on their blog in the first place, as well as an equally fulsome explanation as to why it was finally pulled.
We need to keep pointing out that what we're dealing with here is a morally repugnant trope; one that has been used against Black men, gay men, and is now being deployed against trans women for the same discriminatory purposes. Long before the current astro-turf 'panic' over trans women, Black men were the objects of the 'uncontrollable, sexually aggressive' fear mongering and claims about the need to 'protect [white] women' from them. The result was discrimination, suspicion, and even violence leading to beatings and lynchings of innocent Black men. When the AIDS crisis erupted in the late 70s/early 80s, gay men became the objects of the same scapegoating, with politicians talking about banning gay Scout leaders, clergy, coaches, etc., with false claims about their sexual aggression and 'the gay agenda.' Now, the new scapegoat is trans women, and the same ugly fear mongering, wild claims, and attacks are being aimed at them.
I couldn't agree more with Rabinowitz's point that atheists, who've long been on the receiving end of suspicion, claims of moral laxity, and discrimination should think long and hard before falling for the scapegoating of another group. I hope this article is forwarded to FFRF. They owe us a better explanation of this sorry episode.
Yes we've seen this victimizing over and over again by the same assholes. Trans persons are their latest obsessions, because they can't persecute LGB, anymore there are too many, and even the bigots realize it just outs their hatefulness.
And it's always the same lies: 'They're sexual predators!!!' 'We need to protect our women/girls/boys!!!' 'They have An Agenda!!!' I'm sorry to see so many people who should know better and be more skeptical embracing these tired old, bigoted tropes.
But gods demand everyone maintain total, utter sameness. Everyone must march to the beat of hate-filled gods. OR BURN FOREVER. That sounds like intimidation/extortion to me.
Nobody except patriarchal religious freaks are trying to deny me any rights as a woman. It's the patriarchy, not trans persons that are the actual enemy.
I don't see why it's unreasonable to claim the there are four sexes in the equation. It's clear there's huge dissention that cis and trans women are the same sex and that cis and trans men are the same sex.
In some contexts and ways they are the same and in others they are not.
What bothers me is the absolutism and hate in these discussions.
I'm curious. Do you think biological men go through transitioning just because they want to peak under a bathroom stall or win a sports competition? That's an awfully big sacrifice for marginal gain.
No, "hun" I am not denying reality. That's your job. There's more to gender than genes. They are not "pretending". You're pretending you're protecting women.
If I say it's black with little sparkly bits, is that true?
If I say it's often blue and often black with sparkly bits, and also sometimes making a smooth transition between these states, is that the most accurate?
In other words, if I say the sky is bimodal, doesn't that best reflect reality?
To follow up, is this the first time anyone's bothered to point this out to you?
I took one look at the article and immediately thought "Aw gods, we're gonna get inundated with the bile from the Coyne/Dawkins/Pinker anti-trans cult. Again. Watch the thread blow up. Again.
I for one refuse to feed the trolls anything other than total silence. Hope others will follow suit. Let the haters play to an empty theater.
When they show up, don't engage, just report and block. They're a tiresome, uninformed lot who don't come here to discuss, just to insult and disparage. They aren't worth our time.
Iβm only now starting to scroll. As I suspected, it looks like a number of the regulars are remarking on the inevitable onslaught by the bridge brigade. Be on high alert for the bots endlessly spamming the same comment ad infinitum.
My own suspicion is that they are learning that they made a mistake β a BIG one β and that vetting of proposed articles to be posted on the FFRF website will now be more thorough and critical than it may have been, up until now.
I hate to sound old, but in my undergrad program, an upper-division ethics class was required for Bio, Physical Anthro (my major), and Pre-med majors. I ended up with the Medical Ethics seminar, which was what was being taught that year. Ironically, that was about a year after Roe v Wade, and we covered such topics as death with dignity (at the time that was referred to as suicide for medical reasons), and gay rights. Trans issues were sort of worth a mention, but not really. The focus wasn't just on what specific medical and social issues called for but on *thinking*. I remember going off-topic in the seminar and writing one paper about consent and bodily autonomy in general. I did make the point that queer theorists were already making, in response to phobic assholes who claimed that gay people "chose to be that way." I pointed out that I have a severe congenital orthopoedic disability and didn't *ask* to be born like this. Nor did I want to be stereotyped in the way that disabled people are. All of which is to say that Coyne (who is about my age) and other transphobes either didn't take such a seminar during their training, didn't care about learning to think, or ignored such learning as irrelevant. Perhaps it's all three. I too wish that FFRF's response was more thorough and thoughtful than it was. They are certainly capable of better.
I'm really sceptical about promoting the "born that way" theory. It sort of sounds like we're making an excuse and asking society to cut us some slack because we can't help ourselves. That idea leads down the path of confirming that something is wrong with us., That if there were a cure we would or should opt for it.
I much prefer to promote the (right to be whatever way that you are) idea, as a matter of freedom, that can not be challenged and needs no explanation. Who you are whether it is by necessity or by choice needs no correction, no cure and no change, as long as you do no harm to others.
Excellent piece. My only question would be: will anyone outside of our group here and others like it actually LISTEN to Mr. Rabinowitz, now that the fur has already flown?
Some MIGHT. Too many, and especially those with fixed opinions WON'T.
Apparently this person can't understand the difference between SHOUTING THE MESSAGE IN ALL CAPS and placing EMPHASIS on words the poster feels is important.
I suppose I could have done it with yaytext.com, but I was lazy. So sue me.π
Worth money these days so they tell me. Since the name change anyway. Oops got it wrong. That was the Redskins wasn't it? Still, people do collect old sports memorabilia and you never know.
A friends mother made it for me (knitting) app. 12 ya. She also made me leggings and a skirt, all in red and black and wool. At wintertime, like now, with -10Β°C, I really appreciate the gift.
There are those who would justify discrimination against atheists for the same sort of reason they are justifying discrimination against trans people. And a number of them are currently and about to wield considerable political power. We aren't doomed, but the fight for everyone's human rights is far from over.
If atheists are considered less trustworthy, it may be at least in part because we argue against concepts and ideas that the average believer thinks of as automatics, as elements which have been such a seeming natural part of their lives that they have never thought to look at them CRITICALLY and/or dispassionately.
WE HAVE DONE THAT. Part of the reason why we reject the spurious thinking that surrounds religious thought and practice.
Thank you for confirming what I said on the first article.
βBiology is not bigotry, but conflating biology with ethics is one of the most common ways to end up doing a bigotry. Historically, thatβs how you slide from genetics to genocide.β
Yet I was still accused of using a facile argument or slippery slope or whatever logical fallacies the troll imagined while pulling the appeal to authority.
Anyway, well put. Coynes expertise in evolutionary biology does not make him the expert in the ethical dilemma the right wants to attach to transgender people. Heβs not an ethicist nor an expert on human genetics regarding sex and gender, and his shallow understanding of this specialty has been widely discredited since before he was born. Intersex people have been acknowledged for centuries, debunking the very idea of a strict binary.
Anyhoo, the devil in the details is not the point, the desire to demonize someone who is different is and Coyne has come down on the wrong side of that issue.
Despite some of the comments above, this piece can and should inspire others fighting for LGTBQ+ rights to argue more effectively for those, as most arguments against in fact conflate biology with ethics.
What the fuck are you talking about? People have been using unisex toilets all over the world for years. I used one a couple of weeks ago in a small provincial town. If it's not a problem for them, it shouldn't be a problem for someone as "sophisticated" as you.
WHY are you soafrad of who is in the next stall? Do you go peeping over/under the wall? Do you carry a firearm just in case? It must be rough being so paranoid. Maybe trans people should just pee and shit all over the floor wherever they are? Maybe you should set up genitalia check stations in every public space? A genitalia checker on every corner?
And yet you did. Who said I was a surgeon? It's just a nym I've been using for about 40 years. What kind of rah are you? Essentially I don't care though.
Thank yo for the name calling. I expected nothing more from a kkkon. Actually thes are all related under the umbrella of sex, gender and attraction. Try another slur.
The more I deal with people like you, the more I realize you are motivated by hatred and a sense of religious ignorance from a god too stupid to realize gerrms existed.
Thank you for putting yur intolerance on display. Please be aware that due to Leviticus 20:13, I now consider every religious person a threat to my safety and well-being.
Anyone can claim anything on the internet. For all anyone knows I am the queen of Sheba. Or a Nigerian Prince whose wealth is being held in escrow. Very little impresses me on the web.
"Ultimately, atheists need to work on noticing when someone conflates any form of science and ethics."
Atheist Math and Science is easy: There is Zero objective evidence a God exists, Zero instances of objective, reproducible confirmation that praying to said non-existing deity accomplishes anything beyond chance, and Zero ethical basis for why most of the homo sapiens on planet Earth nonetheless defy this to continue to believe in a deity and fight one another to the death over it (see Gaza, Lebanon/Hezbollah, Taliban in Afghanistan, and US Republican party as examples).
πβπ βππ π‘πππ¦ ππ ππππππππππ§ππ‘πππ ππ ππππππ π€ππ‘β ππππππππ‘ ππππ’ππ π’π πππ ππππππ ππ πππππ ππππππππππ¦ ππ π ππππ‘ππ₯π‘ πππ πππ‘β πππππππ§ππ πππ ππππππππ‘πππ πππ π£πππππππ‘π π£πππππππ.
It's not about bathrooms, just like it wasn't about water fountains.
No, it's not. It's about PUNCHING DOWN, mostly because they can.
Unless the premises of your questions have been established, they cannot be answered. I presume that you are aware of this.
I'm a cis-gendered woman, and I will happily share any space with transwomen, because I am a true believer in feminism, which means we are all equal, and should have basic human rights. I hate sharing space with bigoted jerks, though because they pretend to speak for all of us.
I am old enough to have seen my mother excluded from a bathroom in Florida five years AFTER the civil rights act. Because I pass White, I didn't get "the talk" (if you don't know, ask a Black friend) until after I started transition. And every bit of it reads the same, and just how it was when the other parts of the queer community became more visible.
Yes, they even use the same old tired lies, "it's about the women, the children, keeping them safe."
Do you even know any cis-women? Most of us are totally cool; with transwomen in bathrooms or other shared spaces.
Fuck off, terf.
Even literal human detritus deserves cake.
Have some cake! π
At least they're honest rather than patronising - hun.
Is it nature or nurture that resulted in you becoming the dipshit you are today?
That didn't answer my question. Nature or nurture?
MAGAts don't ask questions, they throw around baseless accusations, like you are doing here.
I, on the other hand, observed you acting like an ass, and asked you what brought you to that place.
Your choice to not directly answer my question while accusing me of being a MAGAt says a lot about 1 of us, and it ain't me, babe.
Almost as satisfying as cake.
Have some cake! π
Please demonstrate where you believe I have claimed victimhood.
For bonus points, guess at my level of college completed.
If, in doing so (or failing to do so), I do not fall into your narrow little pigeonhole, can we agree your message has nothing to do with me and I can properly ignore it?
I'm just trying to figure out if what you're saying is in any way relevant to me or not.
If you have no idea of who you're addressing here, that's perfectly fine by me.
Ah, I thought you were arguing in good faith and not just making noise.
I won't make that error again.
Thanks for the heads-up!
Theyβre just asking for clarification. Why wonβt you answer?
ATTENTION TRANSPHOBIC TROLLS:
Before you start, actually read the article. Arguing that all trans women should be prohibited from women's sports is the exact same thing as saying all black people should be prohibited from using the same water fountains as white people. I have given you my current understanding of trans people in comments on other articles. This is the only direct communication you will get from me. If you still want to flaunt your bigotry, then fuck off.
I'm way past tired about hearing this and other false equivocation and abuses of argument by way of analogy.
So you're saying tall women have an unfair advantage at basketball, petite women an unfair advantage in gymnastics, and you have an unfair disadvantage at everything that requires cognitive abilities.....got it.
Here, have some cake! π
Men who have undergone puberty have a decided advantage over women in sports. That is a fact. Deny facts that don't support your opinions as transphobic is your choice.
We're serving pudding today....does chocolate suit you? π©
Here, have some cake. π
More cake? π
Have some more cake! π
Fill your cake hole! π
Stuff your cake hole! π
It did now. Sorry, was busy making more cake. π
We're serving pudding today....does chocolate suit you? π©
Go fuck yourself.
I take it the top seven were you being "Friendly" and the last one represents being an Atheist. If so, then carry on!
It's pudding today, miss... chocolate pudding. π©
You haven't demonstrated humanity.
Here, have some cake. π
How is that spiteful of the seller? The customer was the one being spiteful.
IIRC the seller was one of the Joes. A tween girl left in tears because she couldn't saveβ’ the seller.
Yes, asking someone to pray with you is spiteful. It assumes that everyone is a kkkristian. It is also known as virtue signaling. The decline was done gracefully.
And why the fuck would anyone pray over something they bought at a yard sale?
More cake? π
All humans are in-group. Oopsie, your premise just shit the bed, ma'am.
Have some more cake! π
You only like your own bigoted categorizations, stain.
Have some more cake! π
Fill your cake hole! π
So you only like to categorize things your way....got it.
Have some more cake! π
π
Have some cake! Stuff it right in your cake hole, you'll feel better.π
Did you get your cake?
It did now. Sorry, was busy making more cake. π
π
Thank you, Aaron Rabinowitz for that thoughtful, careful debunking of the ethical and political problems with Coyne's utterly deficient article. FFRF OWES its supporters a fulsome explanation of how and why that article got published on their blog in the first place, as well as an equally fulsome explanation as to why it was finally pulled.
We need to keep pointing out that what we're dealing with here is a morally repugnant trope; one that has been used against Black men, gay men, and is now being deployed against trans women for the same discriminatory purposes. Long before the current astro-turf 'panic' over trans women, Black men were the objects of the 'uncontrollable, sexually aggressive' fear mongering and claims about the need to 'protect [white] women' from them. The result was discrimination, suspicion, and even violence leading to beatings and lynchings of innocent Black men. When the AIDS crisis erupted in the late 70s/early 80s, gay men became the objects of the same scapegoating, with politicians talking about banning gay Scout leaders, clergy, coaches, etc., with false claims about their sexual aggression and 'the gay agenda.' Now, the new scapegoat is trans women, and the same ugly fear mongering, wild claims, and attacks are being aimed at them.
I couldn't agree more with Rabinowitz's point that atheists, who've long been on the receiving end of suspicion, claims of moral laxity, and discrimination should think long and hard before falling for the scapegoating of another group. I hope this article is forwarded to FFRF. They owe us a better explanation of this sorry episode.
"FFRF OWES its supporters a fulsome explanation of how and why that article got published on their blog in the first place"
Something about full, free, and open discussion of pressing issues of the day?
Just guessing here.
You should forward your comment to FFRF as well. It is 100% bang on.
Yes we've seen this victimizing over and over again by the same assholes. Trans persons are their latest obsessions, because they can't persecute LGB, anymore there are too many, and even the bigots realize it just outs their hatefulness.
And it's always the same lies: 'They're sexual predators!!!' 'We need to protect our women/girls/boys!!!' 'They have An Agenda!!!' I'm sorry to see so many people who should know better and be more skeptical embracing these tired old, bigoted tropes.
They are telling us who they are, either incredibly stupid, or raging bigots.
Not sure anyone has any interest in comments not from their "side"--but here's my take: https://edbuckner.substack.com/p/first-person-in-trans-itive-tense?sd=pf
I don't get transphobia in the first place. Just MYOFB and let people be themselves. They're not hurting anyone. Not everyone is the same.
But gods demand everyone maintain total, utter sameness. Everyone must march to the beat of hate-filled gods. OR BURN FOREVER. That sounds like intimidation/extortion to me.
Yes. But bigots must bigot, so here we are.
Nobody except patriarchal religious freaks are trying to deny me any rights as a woman. It's the patriarchy, not trans persons that are the actual enemy.
Trans women are women, trans men are men. The only one trying to regress women's rights are you.
I don't see why it's unreasonable to claim the there are four sexes in the equation. It's clear there's huge dissention that cis and trans women are the same sex and that cis and trans men are the same sex.
In some contexts and ways they are the same and in others they are not.
What bothers me is the absolutism and hate in these discussions.
Don't accuse me personally for confusing sex with gender; the entire movement has.
I'm curious. Do you think biological men go through transitioning just because they want to peak under a bathroom stall or win a sports competition? That's an awfully big sacrifice for marginal gain.
Your non-answer confirms (to me anyway) that your arguments are rooted in fear and ignorance rather than critical thought and research.
No, "hun" I am not denying reality. That's your job. There's more to gender than genes. They are not "pretending". You're pretending you're protecting women.
No, you don't.
If I say the sky is blue, is that true?
If I say it's black with little sparkly bits, is that true?
If I say it's often blue and often black with sparkly bits, and also sometimes making a smooth transition between these states, is that the most accurate?
In other words, if I say the sky is bimodal, doesn't that best reflect reality?
To follow up, is this the first time anyone's bothered to point this out to you?
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=green+skies+&form=HDRSC3&first=1
I took one look at the article and immediately thought "Aw gods, we're gonna get inundated with the bile from the Coyne/Dawkins/Pinker anti-trans cult. Again. Watch the thread blow up. Again.
I for one refuse to feed the trolls anything other than total silence. Hope others will follow suit. Let the haters play to an empty theater.
Will a lot of new accounts be made today? Magic 8 ball says βare you shitting me? Undoubtedlyβ
When they show up, it is almost certain that they will not have read the article. They will just spew their bile until the banhammer falls.
Yup. I imagine poor Hemant's gonna be besieged with requests for his intervention.
When they show up, don't engage, just report and block. They're a tiresome, uninformed lot who don't come here to discuss, just to insult and disparage. They aren't worth our time.
I stocked up.on cake for our guests. π
I might talk around the trolls, but as for responding to them directly? They get nothing but static.
Today I'm serving them cake:
"Have some cake! π"
I want pie.
(A /rΒ²) + 2.718281828459045...
Mmmm, mathematical pie.
You're welcome to all the pie, buddy! π₯§
I have cake π for the transphobe trolls today. π
I really want to thank you for your cake idea. I had a lot of fun with it today.
You're quite welcome. What treat should we offer them on the next article they visit?
Pudding? π©
Fudge?
Noted and appreciated. Will see what I can do about actually PRACTICING such! π€ͺ
Iβm only now starting to scroll. As I suspected, it looks like a number of the regulars are remarking on the inevitable onslaught by the bridge brigade. Be on high alert for the bots endlessly spamming the same comment ad infinitum.
Youβre losing this one. Lia Thomas wasnβt allowed to compete in the Olympics because itβs not fair to women.
My sole reply to you, spambot...
imgur.com/gallery/mkrd91m
Yes, you're an idiot. We get it. You're wasting your time and ours repeatedly demonstrating it.
I just don't understand why FFRF even published that screed.
My own suspicion is that they are learning that they made a mistake β a BIG one β and that vetting of proposed articles to be posted on the FFRF website will now be more thorough and critical than it may have been, up until now.
One can hope, anyway.
You don't speak for anyone but yourself.
I hate to sound old, but in my undergrad program, an upper-division ethics class was required for Bio, Physical Anthro (my major), and Pre-med majors. I ended up with the Medical Ethics seminar, which was what was being taught that year. Ironically, that was about a year after Roe v Wade, and we covered such topics as death with dignity (at the time that was referred to as suicide for medical reasons), and gay rights. Trans issues were sort of worth a mention, but not really. The focus wasn't just on what specific medical and social issues called for but on *thinking*. I remember going off-topic in the seminar and writing one paper about consent and bodily autonomy in general. I did make the point that queer theorists were already making, in response to phobic assholes who claimed that gay people "chose to be that way." I pointed out that I have a severe congenital orthopoedic disability and didn't *ask* to be born like this. Nor did I want to be stereotyped in the way that disabled people are. All of which is to say that Coyne (who is about my age) and other transphobes either didn't take such a seminar during their training, didn't care about learning to think, or ignored such learning as irrelevant. Perhaps it's all three. I too wish that FFRF's response was more thorough and thoughtful than it was. They are certainly capable of better.
I'm really sceptical about promoting the "born that way" theory. It sort of sounds like we're making an excuse and asking society to cut us some slack because we can't help ourselves. That idea leads down the path of confirming that something is wrong with us., That if there were a cure we would or should opt for it.
I much prefer to promote the (right to be whatever way that you are) idea, as a matter of freedom, that can not be challenged and needs no explanation. Who you are whether it is by necessity or by choice needs no correction, no cure and no change, as long as you do no harm to others.
Excellent piece. My only question would be: will anyone outside of our group here and others like it actually LISTEN to Mr. Rabinowitz, now that the fur has already flown?
Some MIGHT. Too many, and especially those with fixed opinions WON'T.
Face it, you're a transphobic bigot. Have you enjoyed your cake?
Apparently this person can't understand the difference between SHOUTING THE MESSAGE IN ALL CAPS and placing EMPHASIS on words the poster feels is important.
I suppose I could have done it with yaytext.com, but I was lazy. So sue me.π
aka transphobia
Spamming your arguments doesnβt make them true either.
It shows obsession with their bigotry though.
When theyβre true, insightful and brilliant, but you wouldnβt know anything about that.
MAGA red hats are morally deficient, thereby anyone who wears a red hat is morally deficient. See how easy that is? ππ
I THINK I have an old red Cleveland Indians hat, squirreled away somewhere, but that's about it. π
It was cold (by Berkeley standards, anyway) last night, so I wore a knitted hat to bed. Just looked--it was red! Oy!
Worth money these days so they tell me. Since the name change anyway. Oops got it wrong. That was the Redskins wasn't it? Still, people do collect old sports memorabilia and you never know.
The Cleveland Indians did change their name to the Cleveland Guardians.
I've got a couple red hats. I don't wear them anymore. Well, I will wear a Santa hat at Christmas, but that's it. : )
There are always exceptions
I have a red and black nisselue/pixie hat made of wool. I wear it with pride and it has nothing to with the maga cult. And it has been freezing here.
Yours is red and black, which is totally acceptable.
A friends mother made it for me (knitting) app. 12 ya. She also made me leggings and a skirt, all in red and black and wool. At wintertime, like now, with -10Β°C, I really appreciate the gift.
Very thoughtful gift.
I see youβre on your white horse today Kay-El. Ride on!
ππ π ππ π€βπ¦, ππππ ππππ βππ€ ππ‘ ππ π€πππππ¦ ππππππ£ππ π‘βππ‘ ππ‘βπππ π‘π πππ πππ π π‘ππ’π π‘π€πππ‘βπ¦, πππ π’ππ‘πππ ππ π€ππππ πππππ πππ ππππππππ‘πππ ππππππ π‘ ππ‘βπππ π‘π πππππ π π π£πππππ‘π¦ ππ π πππππ π πππππ . πΌππππππ ππ π€π πππ‘π’ππππ¦ βππ ππππππππ πππ‘π π‘βππ‘ ππ‘βπππ π‘π πππ πππ π π‘ππ’π π‘π€πππ‘βπ¦, π€ππ’ππ π€π ππππππ¦ ππ’π π‘ ππππππ‘ π‘βππ‘ πππ‘π ππ π π’ππππππππ‘ π‘π ππ’π π‘πππ¦ πππ ππππππππ‘πππ ππππππ π‘ ππ‘βπππ π‘π π‘βπ π€ππ¦ πΆππ¦ππ ππ π π’ππππ π‘πππ π€π π βππ’ππ π‘ππ€ππππ π‘ππππ ππππππ?
There are those who would justify discrimination against atheists for the same sort of reason they are justifying discrimination against trans people. And a number of them are currently and about to wield considerable political power. We aren't doomed, but the fight for everyone's human rights is far from over.
If atheists are considered less trustworthy, it may be at least in part because we argue against concepts and ideas that the average believer thinks of as automatics, as elements which have been such a seeming natural part of their lives that they have never thought to look at them CRITICALLY and/or dispassionately.
WE HAVE DONE THAT. Part of the reason why we reject the spurious thinking that surrounds religious thought and practice.
Thank you for confirming what I said on the first article.
βBiology is not bigotry, but conflating biology with ethics is one of the most common ways to end up doing a bigotry. Historically, thatβs how you slide from genetics to genocide.β
Yet I was still accused of using a facile argument or slippery slope or whatever logical fallacies the troll imagined while pulling the appeal to authority.
Anyway, well put. Coynes expertise in evolutionary biology does not make him the expert in the ethical dilemma the right wants to attach to transgender people. Heβs not an ethicist nor an expert on human genetics regarding sex and gender, and his shallow understanding of this specialty has been widely discredited since before he was born. Intersex people have been acknowledged for centuries, debunking the very idea of a strict binary.
Anyhoo, the devil in the details is not the point, the desire to demonize someone who is different is and Coyne has come down on the wrong side of that issue.
πΆππ¦πππ ππ₯ππππ‘ππ π ππ ππ£πππ’π‘ππππππ¦ πππππππ¦ ππππ πππ‘ ππππ βππ π‘βπ ππ₯ππππ‘ ππ π‘βπ ππ‘βππππ πππππππ π‘βπ πππβπ‘ π€πππ‘π π‘π ππ‘π‘ππβ π‘π π‘ππππ ππππππ ππππππ.
βββββββ
THIS!!!
Despite some of the comments above, this piece can and should inspire others fighting for LGTBQ+ rights to argue more effectively for those, as most arguments against in fact conflate biology with ethics.
Try telling a Conservative that because men commit most of the gun crime they shouldn't be allowed to own guns β and hear the screaming start.
What the fuck are you talking about? People have been using unisex toilets all over the world for years. I used one a couple of weeks ago in a small provincial town. If it's not a problem for them, it shouldn't be a problem for someone as "sophisticated" as you.
Would you like a gift card to your local bakery?
If it doesn't have anything to do with trans people what's the problem with them specifically?
WHY are you soafrad of who is in the next stall? Do you go peeping over/under the wall? Do you carry a firearm just in case? It must be rough being so paranoid. Maybe trans people should just pee and shit all over the floor wherever they are? Maybe you should set up genitalia check stations in every public space? A genitalia checker on every corner?
A cake surgeon!
And yet you did. Who said I was a surgeon? It's just a nym I've been using for about 40 years. What kind of rah are you? Essentially I don't care though.
"hazel rah rah sis boom bah!" hazel?
Mmm, tasty cake.
https://www.tastykake.com/products
I've had some of those. *nom nom*
Not as good as they used to be.
It's been a few years, but I enjoyed what I had.
Oh great. Here comes the bigot trolls again. And their sock puppets.
Just report and block. They crave attention like a bunch of toddlers. Send them to their room instead.
There'll be cake for all!
Can you still see comments from "Hazel-rah"? Not sure if it blocked me or if the banhammer thwacked it.
Hazel-nuts is still visible. She might have blocked you.
I'm guessing she doesn't like cake. Offer her some, see if she likes yours better. π
Waste cake on trolls? Unthinkable.
Bet she'd hate me even more. π
Some cake isn't for humans. The cake I'm serving today, for example. π
Ah! The little white round ones. π
I canβt see them, but I donβt see a banhammer either. Preemptive block? Lolololol if so.
Still there
Must not have enjoyed all the cake. π
Still visible....
I'm guessing not egregious enough for the banhammer. Mistaken and bigoted, but not egregious!
https://youtu.be/lQkYq4PgqzM
Homosexuality exists throughout mammalian species. Homophobia exists in only one species.
Thank yo for the name calling. I expected nothing more from a kkkon. Actually thes are all related under the umbrella of sex, gender and attraction. Try another slur.
The more I deal with people like you, the more I realize you are motivated by hatred and a sense of religious ignorance from a god too stupid to realize gerrms existed.
Thank you for putting yur intolerance on display. Please be aware that due to Leviticus 20:13, I now consider every religious person a threat to my safety and well-being.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone can claim anything on the internet. For all anyone knows I am the queen of Sheba. Or a Nigerian Prince whose wealth is being held in escrow. Very little impresses me on the web.
Boston creme pie identifies as a pie but looks like a cake. Do you hate it too?
"Ultimately, atheists need to work on noticing when someone conflates any form of science and ethics."
Atheist Math and Science is easy: There is Zero objective evidence a God exists, Zero instances of objective, reproducible confirmation that praying to said non-existing deity accomplishes anything beyond chance, and Zero ethical basis for why most of the homo sapiens on planet Earth nonetheless defy this to continue to believe in a deity and fight one another to the death over it (see Gaza, Lebanon/Hezbollah, Taliban in Afghanistan, and US Republican party as examples).
Zero, zero, zero. Nothing to conflate.